Good Karma To Lease 880; WCBS News Programming To End

[Rusty Muck]

Meanwhile, you say WCBS was "stuck on 880." The audience for news was addressed and satisfied by shutting down alternative rock and replacing it with a news simulcast.

For WINS. Not WCBS. WCBS was the equivalent of an afternoon newspaper in the early 1980s that was left in the dust because the competing paper moved to mornings and grabbed the audience and revenue. It was a fate even the common layperson can understand.

But that's not enough for the over-65 demo that has been demanding Audacy blow up another FM so the boomers can enjoy format duplication (in this case format quadruplication) at the expense of formats that attract younger demos.

So you're basically saying all-news has no future whatsoever, that WINS moving to FM was inconsequential, and we shouldn't even bother spending upwards of 13+ pages talking about the death of this station. Got it.

 

[TheBigA]

For WINS. Not WCBS. WCBS was the equivalent of an afternoon newspaper in the early 1980s that was left in the dust because the competing paper moved to mornings and grabbed the audience and revenue. It was a fate even the common layperson can understand.

It should have happened earlier, as it did in LA. After Westinghouse bought CBS, the company had two news stations in LA: KNX and KFWB. The latter station had a much weaker signal, and the duplicate format was dropped and the station was later sold. The same thing should have happened in NY, but there really wasn't a better option for the signal until now. There's NO NEED to duplicate or quadruplicate a format with such limited audience appeal. No need whatsoever, other than the selfish demands of boomers who don't care what they blow up as long as they get their news.

L.A.’s KFWB Is Sold.

More than four years after CBS Radio placed KFWB Los Angeles into a trust to meet FCC media ownership limits, the station has been sold to Charlie Banta’s Universal Media

www.insideradio.com

So you're basically saying all-news has no future whatsoever, that WINS moving to FM was inconsequential, and we shouldn't even bother spending upwards of 13+ pages talking about the death of this station. Got it.

I'm not saying it. The numbers say it. The audience is primarily 65+. WINS bought itself a few years by adding FM. But it's short term. At some point, the audience will die off.

 

[Rusty Muck]

It should have happened earlier, as it did in LA. After Westinghouse bought CBS, the company had two news stations in LA: KNX and KFWB. The latter station had a much weaker signal, and the duplicate format was dropped and the station was later sold. The same thing should have happened in NY, but there really wasn't a better option for the signal until now.

It was because of union contracts that the stations co-existed for as long as they did. I know that's a pesky little detail that gets in the way here, but undermining the union like Audacy did greased the skids for WINS to move to FM and WCBS to be left behind. Simple as that.

There's NO NEED to duplicate or quadruplicate a format with such limited audience appeal. No need whatsoever, other than the selfish demands of boomers who don't care what they blow up as long as they get their news.

That's what happens when you fail to innovate and expose yourself to the younger demos in the first place. Both stations were on AM-only for far, far too long.

 

[b-turner]

Let's refocus. Radio is a business. Decisions are business decisions that are best for cash flow or viability of the station. So much discussion about the Mets but you do realize most professional sports, the exclusive media pays a fee (usually a hefty one) for those rights and it may includes some commercial clearance. You will spend lots of sales hours to breakeven on that fee and it must be attainable or WCBS would not have taken this on. It would seem, regardless of revenue, WCBS is in a better 'profitability' leasing the station.

 

[TheBigA]

It was because of union contracts that the stations co-existed. I know that's a pesky little detail that gets in the way here, but undermining the union like Audacy did greased the skids for WINS to move to FM and WCBS to be left behind. Simple as that.

I addressed that earlier when I said the station was kept alive artificially. There was no audience need or advertiser demand for format duplication. It was kept alive because the unions insisted and would have filed a grievance. Until 2022 when they signed a new contract.

That's what happens when you fail to innovate and expose yourself to the younger demos in the first place. Both stations were on AM-only for far, far too long.

Every time they innovate, the boomers scream about radio not being like it was in the 60s. That's what's happening here. You don't even live in the market, and yet you're acting like it's still the 70s and radio is still the only way people can get news or information.

 

[Rusty Muck]

You don't even live in the market, and yet you're acting like it's still the 70s and radio is still the only way people can get news or information.

With all due respect, I experienced an EF-1 tornado last Tuesday and all digital means of communicating a tornado warning failed me because the cell towers were crippled. So pardon me if my emotions are still raw from that.

 

[TheBigA]

Speaking of the union, the Writer's Guild has weighed in on the subject:

Writers Guild Decries WCBS Newsradio 880 Closure, Lost Jobs.

The Writers Guild of America East on Monday took aim at Audacy over the shuttering of WCBS Newsradio 880, saying the union lost 23 members and that it’s “devastated” over

www.insideradio.com

I was in AFTRA during a similar situation, and there's nothing the union can do other than ensure the company complies with the terms of the contract. It was after that experience that I resigned from AFTRA, never to return.

 

[MassMusicMan]

If you consider sports to be quality program, I feel sorry for you. Talking heads that spew the same crap about the same Big 3 sports [football, basketball, baseball] every day. Ignore any other sports teams, unless they do something noteworthy ["Hey, Women's National soccer team won an Olympic Gold Medal! Sorry to waste 10 seconds of your time on reporting this. Now let's get back to discussing whether Tyrod Taylor should throw the football overhand or underhand for the next three hours"]. I can tolerate baseball but the other two soon as I hear 'foot" or "basket", my finger is stabbing the off button. My interest in sports lies with other games that don't involve those three listed.
I believe the 50,000 watt clear channel stations were licensed to "serve the nation's interest" if I remember correctly. Sometimes I wish the FCC was more like the CRTC, they don't allow stations to change their formats nilly-willy' you have to prove why you need to change your format. Least that way Canadian cities don't have 4 flavors of country stations polluting the airwaves.WCBS was one of the main news stations I listened to while driving around as there is nary a news station anywhere in my neck of the woods. National news at the top of the hour is what I usually waited for but when they basically started repeats of the overnight "local" portion, I tuned out. Listened to them most of one night driving home from Florida till the sunrise wrecked the signal.

1) Sports stations have the same mission as music stations have: Play the hits.

2) You want government to decide on what formats a free-to-the-end-user entity can and can't be?

 

[MassMusicMan]

It's not a dark day for radio. It may, in fact, be a very important transition at a time when radio listening, expressed as Persons Using Radio, is now at just about 30% of where it was 20 years ago.

Hey, look, data to affirm 15 years of anecdotes from people who tell me "I don't listen to the radio much anymore."

I still remember a woman in Boston asking me "Kiss 108 is still around?"

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

@Nathan Obral kept mentioning the need for WCBS to "innovate". I'm like, "Innovate how?"

They're an all-news radio station for crying out loud! A local headline service with network news, traffic and weather every 10 minutes, and sports and business news twice an hour. Longform features are interspersed throughout the day. Breaking news when warranted and the format gets blown up for continous coverage. All that, and commercials.

Except for the teletype sound effect in the background and anchors with a bit more personality, WINS is basically the same now as it was 30 years ago. We can all agree to that, I think.

Other than updated jingle and sounder packages every few years, I don't see any need for tinkering a format that worked well for close to sixty years. Embrace changes in technology and integrate them, absolutely. Contrary to Nathan's assessment, neither station sounded stodgy.

The one thing they didn't do was dumb down the product, as that would have been insulting to everyone across the board.

 

[Kent]

I hope your mind is not trapped in some kind of blinder box where you believe that since you have a phone you can't use any other kind of media. With regard to the news, sure I get it on my phone. I watch it on TV. I read it online. But your argument ignores the fact that it's perfectly valid to get news -- or music, or whatever -- from multiple sources throughout the day.

The definition of being trapped in a blinder box is trying to shove 100+ year old technology down the throats of millennials and zoomers who don't want it and won't use it. I'll give Audacy some credit for trying to break out of that, but it started late. News is really one of the few things radio has that gives it instant credibility on a smart device. The industry, in general, made the mistake of thinking it had superior branding and name recognition and would be able to force the smaller unknown streamers and podcasters out on recognition alone. That obviously failed, but people don't go to any random Tom, Dick, or Harry for breaking news. News sources are subject to more partisan bickering and credibility questions today, but WCBS and 1010 WINS are credible sources to a large audience.

If anything, WINS with its straight-news delivery offers less of a personality value proposition so it supports the argument, "why is this needed on the radio" more than WCBS does. But either way, radio is still a valid place to consume news. You'd better not be tapping on notifications and scrolling your phone news feed while driving your car. And you might not have time to be doing that while you're trying to get ready for work and send the kids off to school either. So there is always the radio when you're on the road or making breakfast. But you're on a radio forum so you shouldn't need to have that explained to you.

The benefit of smartphones is that you no longer have to listen to the news in the car. You have apps that tell you the best route to work and react more quickly than the traffic reports on the radio. You're absolutely right that you shouldn't be swiping notifications while you're driving, and the good news is that the news headlines you want will be ready for you as soon as you get out of the car. My iPhone goes into driving focus as soon as it connects to my car's Bluetooth or CarPlay. Those notifications are silent while I drive and show up within about 30 seconds of me turning off my car. Some people may still want news in the car, but we can't force everybody to get news that way anymore. Now, you truly have news whenever you want it. You can even get news when you work in a building; smartphones go where AM can't. Radio will always be around in one form or another, but we probably won't be consuming it on traditional AM and FM indefinitely.

With all due respect, I experienced an EF-1 tornado last Tuesday and all digital means of communicating a tornado warning failed me because the cell towers were crippled. So pardon me if my emotions are still raw from that.

Sorry to hear you had to go through that. I worked in radio in Joplin about 20 years ago. Radio did a great job after a tornado ripped through the city's primary business district and destroyed much of its history. The techology may not be there quite yet, but smartphones will eventually have an alternate delivery system for disaster related notifications during the times when cell service is down.

 

[Kemosabe]

Some of the reportage on local television:

 

[RadioGuy1864]

Let's look to the future now. What does this deal portend for WFAN AM? Could Audacy seek to LMA that station too? Or sell both 660 and 880 while they still have some value left in them? I think 1010 WINS is safe on AM as long as the format exists.

 

[genius]

By the way, when did WINS discontinue the teletype sound? The station sounds so boring without it.

 

[mightynine]

Let's look to the future now. What does this deal portend for WFAN AM? Could Audacy seek to LMA that station too? Or sell both 660 and 880 while they still have some value left in them? I think 1010 WINS is safe on AM as long as the format exists.

Audacy gets to make money on their sports station, and make money from their sports competitor. Nice if you can swing it!

 

[Don CT]

What were the terms on when the CBS call letters had to be removed. Was that point getting close?

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

What were the terms on when the CBS call letters had to be removed. Was that point getting close?

Go back to Entercom's purchase of CBS Radio. The clause was inserted there.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

WCBS was making most of its revenue from play-by-play.

You don't know that any more than the other guy on this site who keeps making that same unsubstantiated claim.

In the case of WCBS, the surrounding format was news, and sports actually interrupted the "all news all the time" success formula for all-news stations.

WCBS never branded themselves "all news all the time". That's WINS' slogan but it seems you are not a fan of the format and don't listen, so how would you know? WCBS brands themselves as the home of the Mets and listeners are intelligent enough to know that sports pre-empts regular programming and it will be back. There was always WINS to fall back on when the Mets were on. That was the beauty of having two news stations.

Conclusion: WCBS was not really very profitable.

A conclusion reached using data you're speculating about.

Two news stations in the same market is one too many.

New York is the biggest market in the nation and could absolutely support two news stations. However, both were owned by the same company which no longer wanted to compete with itself and had been maneuvering to end it ever since Audacy took over in 2017. One big problem with the kind of repulsive consolidation that has been allowed to occur in the radio business is that it has killed competition and killed the diversity of voices along with killing jobs and killing so many other things that once made radio great. And yet you keep defending and celebrating the corporate line that is really at the root of so much of the irreparable harm that has been done to this business.

It's not a dark day for radio. It may, in fact, be a very important transition at a time when radio listening, expressed as Persons Using Radio, is now at just about 30% of where it was 20 years ago.

I'm glad to finally see at least one honest piece of data instead of the usual '93 percent of people listen to the radio every day' type of not-believable statistic the NAB and corporate heads keep trotting out.

 

[CTListener]

So you're basically saying all-news has no future whatsoever, that WINS moving to FM was inconsequential, and we shouldn't even bother spending upwards of 13+ pages talking about the death of this station. Got it.

Pretty much. We've already got one generation that's used to going elsewhere for news or ignoring news completely. A second is in progress. News as a radio format has no future unless those generations' media consumption preferences suddenly become their elders' preferences, and sorry to say, the Baby Boomer Tooth Fairy ain't walking through that door.

 

[dhoule]

What happens to CBS On the Hour News?