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560

SCMcKinney said:
However, I tried looking at the top 10 markets and aside from KRLD-FM and WEEI-FM, which are both sports talkers, I couldn't see anything that would resemble an Audacy FM talker. Are there examples in smaller markets?
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One example would be KMBZ-FM. At least during the daytime hours, it's local talk and generally refrains from national politics. To some degree, KMOX in St. Louis does that, too. I understand Bonneville is testing a similar approach in some dayparts on KIRO-FM. Of course, you’re unlikely to see an approach like that in small markets. An approach like that costs money, and you can’t make enough to support a hyperlocal talk format on a small market's budget. Such an approach also requires seasoned professionals. Your kids just out of college aren’t likely to pull that off, and syndication opportunities are nonexistent because local issues, by definition, don’t resonate anywhere else.

SCMcKinney said:
The only other things I'll suggest/ask regarding 560 or any other AM as a lab for new programming - 1. Since most GenZ listening is on their phone, why is an app not an idea? I say this only because an internet station without a broadcast outlet is, for an advertiser, just an internet station among 1000 others. A San Francisco radio app with something you can also readily hear in your car is another thing, one of about 50 (is that not significant to an advertiser?).
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If I were going to use an app, I wouldn’t need the AM signal for placement. TuneIn, iHeart, and Audacy allow you to be listed with local stations if you take a local approach.

SCMcKinney said:
2. As Mr. Fybush points out, once the license is turned in, it is likely dead. I don't think anyone would advocate for blowing up even a moderately performing FM to experiment. But if you have a decently powered property that is going to get canned otherwise, isn't that an opportunity to see what could play and transferred to an FM when the time is right? I think I heard that WTKS was in fact an AM station originally.
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Not that it couldn’t have happened, but I don’t remember what’s now WTKS ever having been on an AM. Having said that, it was also a different era. That was roughly 35 years ago, and AM still had some viability. When it comes to seeing what could play on AM and move to FM, that was a great idea 30 years ago. It's just not realistic today. You’re not going to get enough of a sample on AM today to be able to tell, and you’d just be throwing that money away. It wouldn’t be fair to the people invested in it either. Maybe you could find a sucker, I mean volunteer, but most people with experience wouldn’t go anywhere near that idea. Even twenty years ago, the writing was on the wall. AM was still viable, and a few AM's were still successful. The audience, however, was aging, and even AM stations with high 12+ audience shares were rapidly aging out of the money demos.
 
Kent said:
Even twenty years ago, the writing was on the wall. AM was still viable, and a few AM's were still successful. The audience, however, was aging, and even AM stations with high 12+ audience shares were rapidly aging out of the money demos.
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Correct. It's been a long slow process, as the generation that grew up with radio ages. The problems with AM were evident 30 years ago, and had a part in the deregulation discussions in 1996. We're now at a point where most of the lower powered AMs without translators are no longer viable. We'll see lots of 1kw AM licenses shutting down in the next few years.
 
luperm said:
It’s 2025. Not 1940. Nobody will listen to classical music on AM (or any music for that matter).
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So include AM HD for the sound quality. Classical is a niche audience like foreign language and listeners will search out a signal they like. Even a 5Kw/1Kw signal on 560 will do away with the need to switch back and forth from one patchwork signal to another as they commute. AM and FM HD came standard on my new $17k Mitsubishi Mirage so it's probably also in many other cars. Although the only station I can find with AM HD here in the Sierra Foothills is KSL at night out of Salt Lake City.
 
Lou Schneider said:
Classical is a niche audience almost like foreign language and listeners will search out a signal they like.
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The issue isn't whether or not they'll use it. It is whether or not they'll fund it. We're talking about a non-profit. Running an AM signal costs more than FM. The tower is on leased land, so they'd have to pay for that lease. With funding cuts coming up in public radio, they'd be advised to stay away from any new unfunded expenses.
 
Lou Schneider said:
The worst decision RKO General ever made was to divest KFRC-FM in favor of keeping the Big 610 on AM.
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No, I disagree. Their worst decision was playing "Bet The Company" on fraudulent billings to advertisers and losing their station licenses en masse, with a chaser of massive legal bills to defend the indefensible. IMO, number 2 would be throwing away their first mover advantage in NYC by blowing up WOR-FM's progressive rock format in Market #1 in favor of a not-quite-Drake Drake format to go up against WABC and WMCA. Then the stupid move of selling off KMEL (as KFRC-FM was known by then). And number 4 might be their decision to not renew their agreement with Drake-Chenault because it was costing them too much to continue being successful.

And that's just their radio division. RKO seems to have been quite proficient at making bad decisions.
 
An S.F. PD told me in 2002 that he heard the reason KFRC-FM was sold was the ridiculous notion that 2nd adjacent KARA was causing interference.

Perhaps those with AFC tuners may have had issues in the South Bay.

I was living in San Mateo at the time KFRC-FM was taken dark at the time of sale to Century in 1977.

I used to listen to K-106’s continuous Top 20 countdown.
 
Weiserguy said:
Then the stupid move of selling off KMEL (as KFRC-FM was known by then).
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KFRC-FM was KFRC-FM until it sold to Century, which changed the call letters to KMEL.

Weiserguy said:
And number 4 might be their decision to not renew their agreement with Drake-Chenault because it was costing them too much to continue being successful.
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Bruce Johnston, the President of RKO, was willing to continue with Drake, but wanted Drake to do the work himself, instead of having Bernie Torres and Bill Watson as go-betweens between himself and the RKO PDs.

Drake walked out of Johnston's office and never came back.

Overall, you're right about the loss of Drake for the RKO stations, with the exception of the one we're talking about---KFRC. Its biggest successes, including the hiring of Dr. Don Rose, all came after Drake's departure.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
I think 1978 was the beginning of it. I think somewhere in the mid 70s, a AM and FM were dead even. Once FM stations started circular polarization, FM started winning in cars. Could someone confirm?
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1978:

1. KFRC-AM (Top 40): 8.4
2. KGO-AM (Talk): 7.6
3. KSFO-AM (A/C): 6.5
4. KCBS-AM (News): 5.8
5. KFOG-FM (Beautiful): 4.4
6. KIOI-FM (A/C): 3.9
7. KABL-AM (Beautiful): 3.5
8. KSFX-FM (Disco): 3.4
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 3.3
10. KDIA-AM (R&B): 3.2

1985:

1. KGO-AM (Talk): 8.8
2. KCBS-AM (News): 5.3
3. KYUU-FM (some called it A/C, some called it CHR): 4.1
4. KIOI-FM (same as KYUU---if these were A/C, they were very hot A/Cs): 3.5
5. KSOL-FM (R&B): 3.4
6. KABL-FM (Beautiful): 3.3
7. KSAN-FM (Country): 3.2
8. KFRC-AM (CHR): 3.1
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 2.8
10. KFOG-FM (AOR): 2.7
10. KRQR-FM (AOR): 2.7

Of course, once circular polarization made FM more listenable, FM stations got more advertising dollars and invested more in programming and air talent and promotion.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
An S.F. PD told me in 2002 that he heard the reason KFRC-FM was sold was the ridiculous notion that 2nd adjacent KARA was causing interference.
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He was wrong. Clearly, it didn't hurt KMEL in the least.

The problem was that RKO had tried a bunch of stuff with their FM and none of it worked. They did Drake's Hitparade in the late 60s. That flopped. They went Beautiful Music from 1970-73 as KKEE. Nada. Couldn't dent KABL and KFOG.

Then they came back to KFRC-FM in '73, and began simulcasting 12 hours a day in '74.

Nothing.

KFRC figured if Top 40 on FM was viable, simulcasting Dr. Don Rose and nine other hours of 610 would make the needle move.

It didn't.

So then they made K106 its own thing....and zilch.

So they sold it.

And, even if they hadn't....it might not have mattered. KMEL wasn't what killed them. By the time KMEL went Top 40 in 1984, KFRC was doing a 2.7.

If KFRC had held onto 106.1, they'd have been in a dogfight with KYUU and KIOI and KITS, and there's no guarantee they'd have won. Times were changing.
 
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michael hagerty said:
1978:

1. KFRC-AM (Top 40): 8.4
2. KGO-AM (Talk): 7.6
3. KSFO-AM (A/C): 6.5
4. KCBS-AM (News): 5.8
5. KFOG-FM (Beautiful): 4.4
6. KIOI-FM (A/C): 3.9
7. KABL-AM (Beautiful): 3.5
8. KSFX-FM (Disco): 3.4
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 3.3
10. KDIA-AM (R&B): 3.2

1985:

1. KGO-AM (Talk): 8.8
2. KCBS-AM (News): 5.3
3. KYUU-FM (some called it A/C, some called it CHR): 4.1
4. KIOI-FM (same as KYUU---if these were A/C, they were very hot A/Cs): 3.5
5. KSOL-FM (R&B): 3.4
6. KABL-FM (Beautiful): 3.3
7. KSAN-FM (Country): 3.2
8. KFRC-AM (CHR): 3.1
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 2.8
10. KFOG-FM (AOR): 2.7
10. KRQR-FM (AOR): 2.7

Of course, once circular polarization made FM more listenable, FM stations got more advertising dollars and invested more in programming and air talent and promotion.
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The AM decline in the Bay Area really didn’t happen till a few years later.
 
michael hagerty said:
He was wrong. Clearly, it didn't hurt KMEL in the least.

The problem was that RKO had tried a bunch of stuff with their FM and none of it worked. They did Drake's Hitparade in the late 60s. That flopped. They went Beautiful Music from 1970-73 as KKEE. Nada. Couldn't dent KABL and KFOG.

Then they came back to KFRC-FM in '73, and began simulcasting 12 hours a day in '74.

Nothing.

KFRC figured if Top 40 on FM was viable, simulcasting Dr. Don Rose and nine other hours of 610 would make the needle move.

It didn't.

So then they made K106 its own thing....and zilch.

So they sold it.

And, even if they hadn't....it might not have mattered. KMEL wasn't what killed them. By the time KMEL went Top 40 in 1984, KFRC was doing a 2.7.

If KFRC had held onto 106.1, they'd have been in a dogfight with KYUU and KIOI and KITS, and there's no guarantee they'd have won. Times were changing.
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I used to jokingly tease Steve Rivers when I worked for him, as the 610 KFRC killer since he was the KMEL PD in the early CHR days 1984-1986. KMEL eventually did kill KITS by 1987.

In 1988, KYUU shifted toward straight CHR and then was sold by NBC the following year to Emmis and became the short lived X-100.

I remember a trade publication quoting Ric Lippincot calling KYUU an AC station that sounded CHR at first listen. Of course the name for that sound today would be Adult CHR or maybe Hot AC. KIOI was more of a Hot AC.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
The AM decline in the Bay Area really didn’t happen till a few years later.
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Depends on how you’re gauging it. KFRC lost half its share between 1978 and 1980. KSFO had been in decline since 1975. KNBR was forever in the high twos and low threes.

So, really, the only AMs that didn’t decline by the late 70s were KCBS and KGO. And they had a couple of decades of good ratings left.
 
michael hagerty said:
He was wrong. Clearly, it didn't hurt KMEL in the least
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Of course he was wrong, we were all laughing about it when me mentioned what he was told. It was an interesting lunch with about three of the Infinity programmers and the consultant who I worked for.

In all fairness separate to this situation, 2nd adjacents were a bit difficult to tune for radios that had AFC and no way to switch it off.
 
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To Michael’s post listing the ratings in 1978, it’s funny to see that KABL 960 was beating their Super power sister Class B KABL-FM, 98.1. Of course both were losing to KFOG’s Shulke BM format
 
"....Nobody will listen to classical music on AM (or any music for that matter)."

Not entirely true.........WMTR 1250 AM ranks between a 2.0 - 3.0 playing 60's & 70's oldies. (Morristown, NJ market).
 
mikecroaro said:
"....Nobody will listen to classical music on AM (or any music for that matter)."

Not entirely true.........WMTR 1250 AM ranks between a 2.0 - 3.0 playing 60's & 70's oldies. (Morristown, NJ market).
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Sadly, advertisers are reluctant to purchase on a radio station that targets older listeners (with the AM element making it an even more challenging sell). With that being said, I still have no reluctancy to tune into AM if there's something I want to listen to.

I think time has long run out on many AM stations across North America. But with that being said, it's a different scenario if a station covers their respective market well and can easily be picked up. But the obvious elephant in the room is that few AM stations actually fit that criteria. In one of my earlier replies, I threw out about 5-7 examples of AM stations in the Bay Area that seem to be the best of the bunch. There may be a few other decent AMs that may appeal to certain listeners who speak a different language. There are also tons of smaller AMs out there (not just in the Bay Area) that barely keep the lights on.

To keep a long story short, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing if the AM band thinned out significantly more than it already is.
 


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