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103.9 Jack FM

AnalyticalMonkey said:
lovejamminoldies said:
I compared it to WNCI this morning, and I don't know how I missed it. They really do need a chief engineer.

I don't understand all these half-assed launches lately ... CBS Sports on the former K-95, Q-FM-96, CD-102.5, WVKO's lib-talk format and 98.9 The Answer all come to mind. You would think they would have all their ducks in order first, before they go live.

98.9 still sounds like crappy low-bitrate audio and I guess CD-102 can't afford a decent STL. They've had plenty of time to get it right. Wasn't Q-FM-96 doing the low-bitrate audio thing when they moved studios?

I guess nobody believes in making a good first impression anymore?

makes you wonder, but I think a lot of the sound problems are "computer guys doing audio", they don't know better, and a few are using the other guys engineers, so there is nothing other than the most basic settings. As far as the bad starts, I agree, inexcusable, but when there is nobody local to do the setups and test first, you get crap!

I did think the WVKO Gospel turn on went fairly decent though, and for an AM, they don't sound that bad!
 
AnalyticalMonkey said:
98.9 still sounds like crappy low-bitrate audio and I guess CD-102 can't afford a decent STL. They've had plenty of time to get it right. Wasn't Q-FM-96 doing the low-bitrate audio thing when they moved studios?

I guess nobody believes in making a good first impression anymore?

Making it sound good costs money --- Today it's let's throw up an STL using an IP Wifi Radio link on the cheap (or worse public internet link) using compressed mp3 or if your lucky some form of LD-AAC .. because it's a cheap way to get audio from Point A to Point B.

I think 98.9's using some form of IP based STL -- Shortly after Salem took over 98.9 a small Antenna appeared ontop of their studios located off N High street pointed towards the WBNS tower site downtown.

I am pretty sure most of the Wilks stations (96.3, 95.5, 107.1) are still using some form of IP STL -- They have a collection of antennas mounted above the studios off Cleveland Ave and at least one appears to be a 5Ghz Wifi antenna.

People mention Lib-Talker WVKO - I am pretty sure they used DSL for their STL from my understanding. Not sure what the new folks programming Gospel are doing but it sounds a lot better.

IP based STL's seem popular in Columbus -- I think the folks at the LP 102.1/98.3 are also using DSL for their STL.

I am guessing based on the fact the signal has been up for many years and hasn't moved that NABCO is using some form of RF STL to get studio audio from Dublin Rd to the Channel 34 tower site north of town -- However I know for a fact when they ran "news radio" the station was in Mono and I am guessing some "processing" changes got done for the news talk format -- if they are indeed looking for an engineer I would not be surprised if the processing has not been 'tweaked' at all for Jack's music based format.

Also -- I am surprised they are looking for a FT Engineer -- Surprise they don't just contract it out - then again -- I am guessing NABCO has likely the oldest studio set up in town (SAGA may not be far behind) -- I know Clear Channel, Wilks, Radio One even WCVO have fairly modern updated current technology in terms of their studios. [So they may have trouble finding someone willing to deal with a out dated plant].
 
xmusicmatt said:
IP based STL's seem popular in Columbus -- I think the folks at the LP 102.1/98.3 are also using DSL for their STL.

Question: Since a lot of stations are sounding crappy these days, why not just have a server sitting at the transmitter, and feed everything to the server (similar to the way you guys described the way Jack works)? It seems that you could have the server sitting there and holding things in a queue (even live or slightly delayed announcer), to be executed according to some sort of log file.

I could see a system like that for music stations, but don't know enough about talk to know if that would be practical or not.
 
Wonder how much impact poor audio has on ratings?  Doesn't seem to have hurt CD 102.5 much.  Actually, I guess we can't really tell whether bad sound has shaved off a little of their listening...

On another subtopic, I notice that -- even though it just debuted days ago --, 103.9 Jack-FM's Facebook Likes are growing much quicker than Jack 98.9 did, and certainly WAY quicker than 103.9's previous two formats.  Or, do they have some sort of funny business going on a la the Answer (which I understand as Salem encouraging supporters in other markets to "Like" 98.9 -- there's sure no way they'd be at over 4000 Likes otherwise...).
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Wonder how much impact poor audio has on ratings? Doesn't seem to have hurt CD 102.5 much. Actually, I guess we can't really tell whether bad sound has shaved off a little of their listening...

On another subtopic, I notice that -- even though it just debuted days ago --, 103.9 Jack-FM's Facebook Likes are growing much quicker than Jack 98.9 did, and certainly WAY quicker than 103.9's previous two formats. Or, do they have some sort of funny business going on a la the Answer (which I understand as Salem encouraging supporters in other markets to "Like" 98.9 -- there's sure no way they'd be at over 4000 Likes otherwise...).

Remember how people used to be into sound systems and stereos beginning in about the 1970's? It could just be me getting older, but people don't seem to be as much into audio as they used to be. If anything, they are more into home entertainment systems for watching movies and television in surround. Don't know if anybody cares about music.

I have a sensitive ear, and I notice (and greatly enjoy) a good sounding station. Maybe in the world of MP3's and iPhones, people don't care as much about audio quality as they used to?

I also think it has to do with genre as well. Something with a little bit more of an acoustical sound, or using real musical instruments sounds great with great audio. Other genres such as alternative maybe don't matter so much?
 
AnalyticalMonkey said:
xmusicmatt said:
IP based STL's seem popular in Columbus -- I think the folks at the LP 102.1/98.3 are also using DSL for their STL.

Question: Since a lot of stations are sounding crappy these days, why not just have a server sitting at the transmitter, and feed everything to the server (similar to the way you guys described the way Jack works)? It seems that you could have the server sitting there and holding things in a queue (even live or slightly delayed announcer), to be executed according to some sort of log file.

I could see a system like that for music stations, but don't know enough about talk to know if that would be practical or not.

pretty sure most of the regular STL frequencies were locked up a long time ago, then a lot of them are grandfathered with the older established stations, and for the most part, they are not going to let them go, although some probably should...

as far as automation systems at the transmitters, it could be done, but because stations must have the ability to broadcast/originated programming from their main studio, there would have to be the immediate ability to switch back, which could be an issue. So in every case I know of except one, the main audio source is coming from the main studio, or in the case or an LMA, originated elsewhere, then piped thru the main studio, then to the transmitter.
 
xmusicmatt said:
People mention Lib-Talker WVKO - I am pretty sure they used DSL for their STL from my understanding. Not sure what the new folks programming Gospel are doing but it sounds a lot better.

Talk WVKO used Comrex access @ g722, with an omnia 3 processor, Current WVKO started the same way, but with pre-processing added at studio end, and adjustments made to Omnia to accommodate music format. A Bric-Link was added at the Livingston Studio, and station was algorithm was changed from g722 to ACC2, the rest of the system was not changed
IP based STL's seem popular in Columbus -- I think the folks at the LP 102.1/98.3 are also using DSL for their STL.

Last tiem I know, they were both using winamp

I am guessing based on the fact the signal has been up for many years and hasn't moved that NABCO is using some form of RF STL to get studio audio from Dublin Rd to the Channel 34 tower site north of town -- However I know for a fact when they ran "news radio" the station was in Mono and I am guessing some "processing" changes got done for the news talk format -- if they are indeed looking for an engineer I would not be surprised if the processing has not been 'tweaked' at all for Jack's music based format.

likely a safe bet

Also -- I am surprised they are looking for a FT Engineer -- Surprise they don't just contract it out - then again -- I am guessing NABCO has likely the oldest studio set up in town (SAGA may not be far behind) -- I know Clear Channel, Wilks, Radio One even WCVO have fairly modern updated current technology in terms of their studios. [So they may have trouble finding someone willing to deal with a out dated plant].

I don't know much about the Nabco Plant, most of the others have been recently updated, I suspect the plant is likely in okay shape. The AM sounded pretty good before, I suspect they didn't have a whole lot of familiarity when the computers come into the mix. My gut, without knowing, is that the automation really needs to be updated, and have someone who is going to live with it for a while to get it right.



[/quote]
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Wonder how much impact poor audio has on ratings? Doesn't seem to have hurt CD 102.5 much. Actually, I guess we can't really tell whether bad sound has shaved off a little of their listening...

generally a lot, it likely helps that they have a fairly specialized format

On another subtopic, I notice that -- even though it just debuted days ago --, 103.9 Jack-FM's Facebook Likes are growing much quicker than Jack 98.9 did, and certainly WAY quicker than 103.9's previous two formats. Or, do they have some sort of funny business going on a la the Answer (which I understand as Salem encouraging supporters in other markets to "Like" 98.9 -- there's sure no way they'd be at over 4000 Likes otherwise...).

I think they will do well...they just have to get some of their issues ironed out. I think the market really wanted the Jack format, and there were a lot of folks who were disappointed when it left.
 
knowbetter said:
I don't know much about the Nabco Plant, most of the others have been recently updated, I suspect the plant is likely in okay shape. The AM sounded pretty good before, I suspect they didn't have a whole lot of familiarity when the computers come into the mix. My gut, without knowing, is that the automation really needs to be updated, and have someone who is going to live with it for a while to get it right.

Thank you for your info -- I am guessing NABCO's running pretty old automation set up -- I don't think they have upgraded in years from my understanding -- Besides the only station that really does anything "Live" (and has for years) is 99.7.. 103.9 and 920 even under their music formats ran off the bird/automated.

I always thought WMNI-AM's audio was fine when they ran standards and even classic country in the past -- I am guessing really since 103.9's transmission plant is fairly new (in broadcast speak) @ the WOSU-TV site that the issue with audio right now is processing needs to be 'tweaked' for Jack as I stated before.

Even an "older" processor can be made to sound "decent/ok" and considering 103.9 has only been on since 1998 it's not like it's running an Optimod FM from the 80s or something..

It would be interesting to know what everyone in town is using processor wise -- but I know that most groups "don't talk about that" sorta stuff :)
 
xmusicmatt said:
It would be interesting to know what everyone in town is using processor wise -- but I know that most groups "don't talk about that" sorta stuff :)

I don't know it it's a really big secret... Omnia's, Optimods, & I suspect a few Davids. Having CC here, there are likely some of their "magic boxes", but..

The real difference is how they are set, and consequently, the way they are set. The studio quality also makes a big difference, but pretty much, most of them are adequate.

Keep in mind the following is just an opinion, and talking about basic, out of the box
settings:

Omnia's are generally more like an amplified CD, the sound is very full, and the multiband processing is fairly aggressive. They are very clean, but to me at least, most of the instruments are forefront, you can hear each on every element equally, which sometimes gives the music a total different sound on the radio, vs listening to the actual cd..

Great, if you never hear the source material

Optimods are generally less aggressive on multiband, they don't seem to be as extensive, plus the optimod doesn't give you as many options to modify itself. Optimods generally tend to be smooth & loud, they are what most people think of, when they think of "radio".

Some engineers didn't like the optimod concept, "we know what you station should sound like"...that started a long time ago, and it stuck, Some folks like the fact that is is fairly hard to make an Optimod sound "really bad"

In most cases, what goes in, comes out, cleaner, louder, and smoother...but not really that different.

after a while, you can really pick them out...but, to each their own..

(oh, and for the record, i do prefer the Omnia Products, but am really okay with the optimods, or other stuff, again, depending on what the format objectives are)
 
xmusicmatt said:
Even an "older" processor can be made to sound "decent/ok" and considering 103.9 has only been on since 1998 it's not like it's running an Optimod FM from the 80s or something..

You seem to make that sound like a bad thing, but many people (and some stations that still use them) love the classic sound of an Optimod 8100 with an XT-2. That is still my favorite processing combo, and I have never heard a digital processor that is capable of delivering the same loud, but smooth sound.
 
CatFM said:
xmusicmatt said:
Even an "older" processor can be made to sound "decent/ok" and considering 103.9 has only been on since 1998 it's not like it's running an Optimod FM from the 80s or something..

You seem to make that sound like a bad thing, but many people (and some stations that still use them) love the classic sound of an Optimod 8100 with an XT-2. That is still my favorite processing combo, and I have never heard a digital processor that is capable of delivering the same loud, but smooth sound.

and it strongly depends on the format. I'd take a 8100 & XT anyday on an oldies station, vs the current multiband stuff. The Optimod is a 4 or five band multiband unit, but it holds the music in perspective...

If you listen to an oldies station today, there is a good chance you won't even recognize the original song you listed to when it was current in the 60'70's, and even 80's. The processing is really that different!
 
When 103.1 was running Urban AC/Oldies in the early 2000s with Tom Joyner and Doug Banks, anyone who knows the 8100/XT combo would have recognized the trademark sound. For a station with a fringe signal, their audio sounded fantastic!
 
Not sure what type of processor they were using back then, but I always thought Mix 97.1/WBNS-FM sounded flat. I loved the station but thought the processing left a lot to be desired. Anyone have any idea what they used back then? I'm assuming they still use it since they became The Fan back on 1-27-09.
 
My memory isn't the greatest, but I seem to remember an Aphex Compellor with an 8100 in 1996, and then they changed to just a digital Optimod by 1997. Neither were set for aggressive processing because the CE didn't like it.
 
alans613 said:
Not sure what type of processor they were using back then, but I always thought Mix 97.1/WBNS-FM sounded flat. I loved the station but thought the processing left a lot to be desired.

So true.
 
The "Jackisms" and calls on Jack 98.9 were much edgier than those on the DG version at 103.9. Many of 98.9's were pretty irreverent, racy (haven't heard anything racy at all on 103.9), sarcastic, and bordering on nasty. And they tried to paint Jack as various ne'er-do-well personalities who were behind on child support, had some strange habits, etc. So in a way the presentation is very different (as is the music to some degree: neither as rock-heavy as the early 98.9 nor as stylistically broad as the final-days 98.9). I wonder if that's going to change, and if not, whether the differences are good, bad or neutral in terms of how 103.9 fares. One thing I really hope they do is add in some local references; I notice that even "we're back!" doesn't mention Columbus or central Ohio.

Finally, I wonder how much vulnerability there is in the fact that 103.9's signal struggles heavily in some of 98.9's strongest areas, e.g., downtown, German Village and Short North. Don't know how much -- if at all -- the upgrade will help those particular weaknesses.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
The "Jackisms" and calls on Jack 98.9 were much edgier than those on the DG version at 103.9. Many of 98.9's were pretty irreverent, racy (haven't heard anything racy at all on 103.9), sarcastic, and bordering on nasty. And they tried to paint Jack as various ne'er-do-well personalities who were behind on child support, had some strange habits, etc. So in a way the presentation is very different (as is the music to some degree: neither as rock-heavy as the early 98.9 nor as stylistically broad as the final-days 98.9). I wonder if that's going to change, and if not, whether the differences are good, bad or neutral in terms of how 103.9 fares. One thing I really hope they do is add in some local references; I notice that even "we're back!" doesn't mention Columbus or central Ohio.

Finally, I wonder how much vulnerability there is in the fact that 103.9's signal struggles heavily in some of 98.9's strongest areas, e.g., downtown, German Village and Short North. Don't know how much -- if at all -- the upgrade will help those particular weaknesses.
Nothing TuneIn Radio can't fix. I listen to TuneIn all the time these days, mostly for Cincinnati's Q102. I'm sure Jack listeners that can't pick up the station can fix the signal issues by using TuneIn via iPhone or Droid. :)
 
alans613 said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
The "Jackisms" and calls on Jack 98.9 were much edgier than those on the DG version at 103.9. Many of 98.9's were pretty irreverent, racy (haven't heard anything racy at all on 103.9), sarcastic, and bordering on nasty. And they tried to paint Jack as various ne'er-do-well personalities who were behind on child support, had some strange habits, etc. So in a way the presentation is very different (as is the music to some degree: neither as rock-heavy as the early 98.9 nor as stylistically broad as the final-days 98.9). I wonder if that's going to change, and if not, whether the differences are good, bad or neutral in terms of how 103.9 fares. One thing I really hope they do is add in some local references; I notice that even "we're back!" doesn't mention Columbus or central Ohio.

Finally, I wonder how much vulnerability there is in the fact that 103.9's signal struggles heavily in some of 98.9's strongest areas, e.g., downtown, German Village and Short North. Don't know how much -- if at all -- the upgrade will help those particular weaknesses.
Nothing TuneIn Radio can't fix. I listen to TuneIn all the time these days, mostly for Cincinnati's Q102. I'm sure Jack listeners that can't pick up the station can fix the signal issues by using TuneIn via iPhone or Droid. :)

Here's the thing though... If you're listening to TuneIn Radio, why on earth would you listen to anything local? The whole reason I listen to TuneIn or iHeart is because everything local including the new Jack 103.9 is complete garbage.
 
iHeartSiriusXM said:
alans613 said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
The "Jackisms" and calls on Jack 98.9 were much edgier than those on the DG version at 103.9. Many of 98.9's were pretty irreverent, racy (haven't heard anything racy at all on 103.9), sarcastic, and bordering on nasty. And they tried to paint Jack as various ne'er-do-well personalities who were behind on child support, had some strange habits, etc. So in a way the presentation is very different (as is the music to some degree: neither as rock-heavy as the early 98.9 nor as stylistically broad as the final-days 98.9). I wonder if that's going to change, and if not, whether the differences are good, bad or neutral in terms of how 103.9 fares. One thing I really hope they do is add in some local references; I notice that even "we're back!" doesn't mention Columbus or central Ohio.

Finally, I wonder how much vulnerability there is in the fact that 103.9's signal struggles heavily in some of 98.9's strongest areas, e.g., downtown, German Village and Short North. Don't know how much -- if at all -- the upgrade will help those particular weaknesses.
Nothing TuneIn Radio can't fix. I listen to TuneIn all the time these days, mostly for Cincinnati's Q102. I'm sure Jack listeners that can't pick up the station can fix the signal issues by using TuneIn via iPhone or Droid. :)

Here's the thing though... If you're listening to TuneIn Radio, why on earth would you listen to anything local? The whole reason I listen to TuneIn or iHeart is because everything local including the new Jack 103.9 is complete garbage.
I can pick up Q102 on the radio, but it's real spotty(I'm on the fringe of the signal), so it's nice not to have to listen to static. If I liked a local station enough but had trouble picking it up, I'd use TuneIn. I'd have to use TuneIn to pick up 103.9 due to being in the coverage area for 103.9 The X. I do listen to other out of town stations though(Star 102.1/Knoxville & 107.9 The Mix out of Indianapolis come to mind). I have iHeart Radio also, but I never use it. I avoid CC stations, and all CC stations are blocked on TuneIn, which is fine by me. :)
 
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