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103's pitching up their stuff

Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

>

Fingernails on a chalkboard...... So glad shes up on the mountain out of earshot.


> >
> Perhaps you could adjust Jill Gleeson's voice down a few
> percentage points.
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Yeah but in however long it is now, they will be moving down here with the rest of civilation. Fourtnetly my radio doesn't have enough presets to program in the Buzz. So I can safely say I will never hear that voice again.
 
EVER?

>

I was told months ago just to ignore any posts from you, now I know why. Have you ever been wrong? You have fought with everybody on here at one time or another. The sky IS blue! The world IS round! The entire track was pitched. Your ears may be fine but why do you insist on fighting with everybody and claiming to be the expert on all? The voice was NOT removed and preserved in a jar someplace then reinserted after. NO way.


> Steve it's not your hearing...Miss A is just doesn't
> > understand. She is out numbered something like 90 to 1 on
> > this subject and she still insists that pitching does not
> > change tempo.
>

> No AJ, I never said pitching does not change TEMPO. If the
> defintion of pitching that was previous described holds true
> then the purpose of pitching is to do exactly that, speed up
> the TEMPO or, how fast the song plays.
>
> > Shout out to Miss A...I will play Hollaback girl pitched
> up
> > 2% while trying to keep the tempo of the song the same,
> then
> > I will play it the right way and you tell me if they still
>
> > sound the same...
>
> You can play Hollaback Girl pitched up at 90% and play it
> without pitching it up and they will still be in the same
> musical KEY if you set it to edit that way. One will be
> faster than the other but the one that is pitched up will
> still be in the same musical key if it was set that way.
> The time it would sound like Bucky after sucking a helium
> balloon is if you pitch it up WITHOUT setting it to keep the
> same key or PITCH. Maybe modern editing software
> automatically does this now.
>
> > Call me when you have some free time, that is if you are
> not
> > to scared to be proven wrong...open invitation for you to
> > rootbeerfloat
>
> Don't know about rootbeer but I don't need to hear it. I DO
> have perfect pitch, not relative pitch and I've heard the
> HOT 103 pitched up version and my own regular version at
> home. The speed is noticably different when you hear them
> back to back, the KEY is not, it's exactly the same key of B
> Major.
>
> It's quite possible that modern editing software used to
> pitch up mp3's and WAV files do not have a setting to
> maintain key but if you start out with an AIFF file, pitch
> it up and set the key to remain the same and then mix the
> file to an mp3 or WAV file, the key will be the same. One
> would think that editing software that expensive would not
> need an option, I'll bet it's already written into the
> program to retain the original key of the songs regardless
> of the type of file.
>
> But, I'm sorry Steve, you are wrong if you are talking
> specifically about Hollaback Girl. The song is pitched up on
> HOT 103 (meaning tempo is faster) but the actual musical key
> of B Major is retained on the radio. Play the two together
> and one will end before the other because its tempo is
> faster but the key will still be the same to your ear. You
> won't hear one sounding higher than the other.
>
 
Pitch vs. Speed

OK, I'm going to have to throw my 2 cents in here:

First of all, yes it is possible to speed up a song digitally without modifying its pitch. You use what is called a phase vocoder algorithm. There's a popular consumer-grade piece of software called Chronotron that does exactly that.

Having said that, I've never heard of a radio station that uses this kind of software. Even major market stations use "pitching", which both speeds the song up and makes the notes higher, resulting in the chipmunk effect on certain Mariah Carey songs.

Unfortunately I haven't heard Hot 103 enough that I can say for certain which they're using. If they're using software that compresses time without raising pitch, they're certainly the first station I've ever heard of that does that.
 
> Most
> every top 10 market CHR has on staff a guy who does nothing
> but remix songs so that when you listen to their station,
> it's the only place you'll hear that particiular mix.

Before consolidation, maybe. In this day and age, no way. There are special mixes, and a popular thing to do is extend or add an intro so a DJ has more time before he hits the post, but they're not usually done in-house. One guy at a Clear Channel station does it and shares it with the rest of the Clear Channel CHRs. There are also companies that send out special mixes with shorter versions and/or extended intros. Promo Only does this I believe.

Once in a while, stations will do their own mixes, sometimes with the station name strategically placed in them, but that's become the exception, not the rule.
 
Get Off Her Back!

(Miss A., I've just sent you an email...)

This post is out of line and uncalled for. How dare you attack another human being like this? You don't know this woman. I not only worked with this woman when she put together her radio promotions while working for Penn State, I became her friend as a result of that work relationship.

This woman doesn't have a know-it-all bone in her body. She'd give the shirt off her back for you if you were cold, she would give you her last crumb of food if you were hungry and if she knows she's correct, then she's done her homework first.

If I'm reading all of the posts correctly on this subject, I'd say everyone is circling around semantics. Have you any idea what you've posted or what you've been reading?

Does this warrant a post like the one below? Do you have any idea what the musical background of this woman is? Does she need to be an expert in radio to post here? It's obvious she doesn't based on some of what I've read so far.

Who would tell you to ignore her posts over any others when you don't even know her? Do these people know her? Spoken to her? Socialized with her? Gone to her for advice outside the subject of radio? How can you ask a question as to whether or not she's ever been wrong if you don't know her? She would be the first to admit a mistake.

I think some of the people here need to take along hard look at themselves before throwing stones at others.

To Mr. Hilton, I know who you are. I've been in the neighborhood a long time and I used to listen to you on the radio when you were on B-103. I'm pleased for you that you are doing well and that you've decided to get back into the game. I always enjoyed you back then. I'm not a big radio listener anymore so I don't get to hear you. I'm usually busy with my own kids. Good luck to you and I'm pleased to see you've taken a higher road than a lot of people on this site.

To Mr. Turner, I don't know you but by all accounts you have a good reputation and I see you have taken the high road as well by not engaging in this farce. I hope you will come to the website and tell these people what you are really doing to your songs so that everyone can move on.

To all of the others who don't have the cajones to speak out freely like these three, you are cowards. If you really believed in everything you post, you wouldn't need to hide behind your made-up monikers.

Most sincerely,

Jennifer (last name withheld to protect the innocent)


> I was told months ago just to ignore any posts from you,
> now I know why. Have you ever been wrong? You have fought
> with everybody on here at one time or another. The sky IS
> blue! The world IS round! The entire track was pitched. Your
> ears may be fine but why do you insist on fighting with
> everybody and claiming to be the expert on all? The voice
> was NOT removed and preserved in a jar someplace then
> reinserted after. NO way.
>
>
> > Steve it's not your hearing...Miss A is just doesn't
> > > understand. She is out numbered something like 90 to 1
> on
> > > this subject and she still insists that pitching does
> not
> > > change tempo.
> >
>
> > No AJ, I never said pitching does not change TEMPO. If
> the
> > defintion of pitching that was previous described holds
> true
> > then the purpose of pitching is to do exactly that, speed
> up
> > the TEMPO or, how fast the song plays.
> >
> > > Shout out to Miss A...I will play Hollaback girl pitched
>
> > up
> > > 2% while trying to keep the tempo of the song the same,
> > then
> > > I will play it the right way and you tell me if they
> still
> >
> > > sound the same...
> >
> > You can play Hollaback Girl pitched up at 90% and play it
> > without pitching it up and they will still be in the same
> > musical KEY if you set it to edit that way. One will be
> > faster than the other but the one that is pitched up will
> > still be in the same musical key if it was set that way.
> > The time it would sound like Bucky after sucking a helium
> > balloon is if you pitch it up WITHOUT setting it to keep
> the
> > same key or PITCH. Maybe modern editing software
> > automatically does this now.
> >
> > > Call me when you have some free time, that is if you are
>
> > not
> > > to scared to be proven wrong...open invitation for you
> to
> > > rootbeerfloat
> >
> > Don't know about rootbeer but I don't need to hear it. I
> DO
> > have perfect pitch, not relative pitch and I've heard the
> > HOT 103 pitched up version and my own regular version at
> > home. The speed is noticably different when you hear them
>
> > back to back, the KEY is not, it's exactly the same key of
> B
> > Major.
> >
> > It's quite possible that modern editing software used to
> > pitch up mp3's and WAV files do not have a setting to
> > maintain key but if you start out with an AIFF file, pitch
>
> > it up and set the key to remain the same and then mix the
> > file to an mp3 or WAV file, the key will be the same. One
>
> > would think that editing software that expensive would not
>
> > need an option, I'll bet it's already written into the
> > program to retain the original key of the songs regardless
>
> > of the type of file.
> >
> > But, I'm sorry Steve, you are wrong if you are talking
> > specifically about Hollaback Girl. The song is pitched up
> on
> > HOT 103 (meaning tempo is faster) but the actual musical
> key
> > of B Major is retained on the radio. Play the two together
>
> > and one will end before the other because its tempo is
> > faster but the key will still be the same to your ear.
> You
> > won't hear one sounding higher than the other.
> >
>
 
Re: Get Off Her Back!

>
> This post is out of line and uncalled for. How dare you
> attack another human being like this? You don't know this
> woman. I not only worked with this woman when she put
> together her radio promotions while working for Penn State,
> I became her friend as a result of that work relationship.
>
> This woman doesn't have a know-it-all bone in her body.
> She'd give the shirt off her back for you if you were cold,
> she would give you her last crumb of food if you were hungry
> and if she knows she's correct, then she's done her homework
> first.
>
Of course Miss A. is welcome to post here...but of course there will be those who agree or disagree with her position. I for one still disagree that the pitch as in key of the song is not effected by the speedup of the tune. I also think that the practice as a whole sounds rediculous and is unnecessary for Hot or any other station to get involved in...but its Turner's game and not mine, so he can do what he wants...I may be wrong...I may be right...but based on what I think I am hearing, that is my opinion. If Miss A is guilty of anything it may simply be not knowing when to leave well enough alone. She posted her thoughts on it and for whatever reason most of the other posters think she is wrong...not gonna win that fight. A very smart person once told me that there are fights you can win and fights you can't and when you are fighting a losing battle, be the better person and throw in the towel and walk away. I think its the persistent posting saying I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE NOT is what is being seen as a know it all attitude. Miss A sings and is obviously proud of that and I bet she knows more about the symantics of a song than I ever will, but no one likes to be told they are WRONG...from either side of the fence. I think we would all get along better if we all avoided the personal attacks and stated our opinions and moved along. Sooner or later someone has to be the bigger person and someone has to drop the ball, or this stuff goes on forever.

I am kind of disappointed that I started this thread as a means of having some intelligent discussion on the practice as a whole both for and against and at this stage, all it has become is one big long string of going back and forth as to whether or not speeding up the song affects the singer's notes. Let's hear some REAL programming philosophy here...why would you or would you NOT do it??? Do you agree with it and why???

>>
> To Mr. Hilton, I know who you are. I've been in the
> neighborhood a long time and I used to listen to you on the
> radio when you were on B-103. I'm pleased for you that you
> are doing well and that you've decided to get back into the
> game. I always enjoyed you back then. I'm not a big radio
> listener anymore so I don't get to hear you. I'm usually
> busy with my own kids. Good luck to you and I'm pleased to
> see you've taken a higher road than a lot of people on this
> site.

Well thanks...nice to know you are pleased for me...but I must admit this post has a much different slant than the one a short while ago when you told me to take a Q-Tip to my ears because I can't hear. Seems you are a little guilty of slamming someone as well? Wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black??? Anyway...I hold no grudges and I'd like to think my game is still on after all these years. Us old guys like me and Joepa...well we gotta stick together and do our thing for as long as people will have us. Thankfully there are people like the Simpsons who were kind enough to give the old boy a return to the limelight. These people are MY kind of people and I am happy to be affiliated with them.

Hitman
 
Re: Get Off Her Back!

Mr. Hilton,

With regard to my previous post, you have my apologies for the Q-Tip comment. Was a tad ticked about the smarmy commentary of which were not a part.

Jen

> > This post is out of line and uncalled for. How dare you
> > attack another human being like this? You don't know this
>
> > woman. I not only worked with this woman when she put
> > together her radio promotions while working for Penn
> State,
> > I became her friend as a result of that work relationship.
>
> >
> > This woman doesn't have a know-it-all bone in her body.
> > She'd give the shirt off her back for you if you were
> cold,
> > she would give you her last crumb of food if you were
> hungry
> > and if she knows she's correct, then she's done her
> homework
> > first.
> >
> Of course Miss A. is welcome to post here...but of course
> there will be those who agree or disagree with her position.
> I for one still disagree that the pitch as in key of the
> song is not effected by the speedup of the tune. I also
> think that the practice as a whole sounds rediculous and is
> unnecessary for Hot or any other station to get involved
> in...but its Turner's game and not mine, so he can do what
> he wants...I may be wrong...I may be right...but based on
> what I think I am hearing, that is my opinion. If Miss A is
> guilty of anything it may simply be not knowing when to
> leave well enough alone. She posted her thoughts on it and
> for whatever reason most of the other posters think she is
> wrong...not gonna win that fight. A very smart person once
> told me that there are fights you can win and fights you
> can't and when you are fighting a losing battle, be the
> better person and throw in the towel and walk away. I think
> its the persistent posting saying I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE NOT
> is what is being seen as a know it all attitude. Miss A
> sings and is obviously proud of that and I bet she knows
> more about the symantics of a song than I ever will, but no
> one likes to be told they are WRONG...from either side of
> the fence. I think we would all get along better if we all
> avoided the personal attacks and stated our opinions and
> moved along. Sooner or later someone has to be the bigger
> person and someone has to drop the ball, or this stuff goes
> on forever.
>
> I am kind of disappointed that I started this thread as a
> means of having some intelligent discussion on the practice
> as a whole both for and against and at this stage, all it
> has become is one big long string of going back and forth as
> to whether or not speeding up the song affects the singer's
> notes. Let's hear some REAL programming philosophy
> here...why would you or would you NOT do it??? Do you agree
> with it and why???
>
> >>
> > To Mr. Hilton, I know who you are. I've been in the
> > neighborhood a long time and I used to listen to you on
> the
> > radio when you were on B-103. I'm pleased for you that
> you
> > are doing well and that you've decided to get back into
> the
> > game. I always enjoyed you back then. I'm not a big
> radio
> > listener anymore so I don't get to hear you. I'm usually
> > busy with my own kids. Good luck to you and I'm pleased to
>
> > see you've taken a higher road than a lot of people on
> this
> > site.
>
> Well thanks...nice to know you are pleased for me...but I
> must admit this post has a much different slant than the one
> a short while ago when you told me to take a Q-Tip to my
> ears because I can't hear. Seems you are a little guilty of
> slamming someone as well? Wouldn't that be the pot calling
> the kettle black??? Anyway...I hold no grudges and I'd like
> to think my game is still on after all these years. Us old
> guys like me and Joepa...well we gotta stick together and do
> our thing for as long as people will have us. Thankfully
> there are people like the Simpsons who were kind enough to
> give the old boy a return to the limelight. These people
> are MY kind of people and I am happy to be affiliated with
> them.
>
> Hitman
>
 
Re: Real talk

>Look at the hundreds of post she has made. The vast majority are cutting, mean attacks. Steve has never done that.Glen has never done that. It is rare on this board for anybody but her to do that. Madam/Sir, go back and read and the past will prove it. Mrs. A is harsh to any who post here. She comes off as condescending and insecure. Thanks for the testament on her character. She may well be all of the thing you wrote, but on this board she comes off as a very different person.

Look back at the posts, maybe this is a side of your friend you have never seen. I would think if she is so genuine and amazing and there is somebody so insecure and hurtful right under the surface she might need help and it would be your duty to her to recommend that. She is the furthest thing from the lauds you pile on, at least on this very board. That’s the only interaction we have with her. She insults friends and total strangers. The greater part of the time she is not only off base but completely wrong. She is not in radio but posting on radio-info? If challenged on points she attempts to make even whith personal attacks she fly’s off in a tangent. Many people that have seen the posts just ignore her. I was told too ignore her also. Steve did nothing wrong, he did not say anything about her anyway. I asked him and he was one on the people who said that Mrs. A should just slide on comments right or wrong. I don’t know Glen well enough but it seems that he does not post a great deal on the board and has never attacked anybody.

I pointed out the obvious here. The very first post I viewed years ago was Ms A assault on a very good poster that caused a banter back and forth for days. This banter has be at hand ever since. Ms A rarely comments but instead cuts others down and brags about herself. Look back at her posts. She could be mother Theresa outside this board but not here.
 
Re: Get Off Her Back!

I honestly don't think that anyone has it in for Miss A..ok I take that back maybe one or two people. To clairfy. There are so many diffrent programs out there that all of you have pointed out, that can do this. The fact of the matter is that you can't change the pitch without changing the tempo. You can maybe adjust a song by 2 beats which would be a 1 to 1.5% pitch increase and not change the integrity of the song. Yeah the key be the same regardless. 2% is not going to effect that but it will sound like the chipmunks if it si pitched up to o high. Somebody pointed out a while ago that you can't speed up the lyrics and keep the music the same or vice versa and have it work. They would be off. The point I was trying to point out to Miss A is the fact that pitching is used a lot in beatmixing. I'm sure Glen can back me up on this. If you take the pitch up too high, well there are your chipmunks. Some songs it is very noticable on and some they aren't. If Hot is in deed pitching up songs, then you will notice it. Espically if you are flipping back and forth between stations playing the same song. So in all fairness lets just say we all to prefer to disagre on this subject and lets go back to the orginal question. IF Hot is pitching them up, WHY?
 
Why?

> I honestly don't think that anyone has it in for Miss A..ok
> I take that back maybe one or two people. To clairfy. There
> are so many diffrent programs out there that all of you have
> pointed out, that can do this. The fact of the matter is
> that you can't change the pitch without changing the tempo.
> You can maybe adjust a song by 2 beats which would be a 1 to
> 1.5% pitch increase and not change the integrity of the
> song. Yeah the key be the same regardless. 2% is not going
> to effect that but it will sound like the chipmunks if it si
> pitched up to o high. Somebody pointed out a while ago that
> you can't speed up the lyrics and keep the music the same or
> vice versa and have it work. They would be off. The point I
> was trying to point out to Miss A is the fact that pitching
> is used a lot in beatmixing. I'm sure Glen can back me up on
> this. If you take the pitch up too high, well there are your
> chipmunks. Some songs it is very noticable on and some they
> aren't. If Hot is in deed pitching up songs, then you will
> notice it. Espically if you are flipping back and forth
> between stations playing the same song. So in all fairness
> lets just say we all to prefer to disagre on this subject
> and lets go back to the orginal question. IF Hot is pitching
> them up, WHY?
>

I think Mountaineer hit it on the head earlier. Stations do it to try to sound brighter and more exciting, more up-tempo.

When I was programming WPRR back in the stone ages, I received a call from a guy who was in from out of town. He asked why our music was slower than it should be. Where he was from, all the stations pitched up the songs, so our stuff, played at normal pitch, sounded slow to him.

For a time, we had CD players with pitch control, but we normally didn't play with the pitch. I'll admit that I would sometimes play with it just for fun. You can pitch some songs up 2% and hardly notice, and other songs really stand out. Huey Lewis & the News, when pitched up 2%, sounded like Alvin & the Chipmunks.
 
Re: Why?

> > I honestly don't think that anyone has it in for Miss
> A..ok
> > I take that back maybe one or two people. To clairfy.
> There
> > are so many diffrent programs out there that all of you
> have
> > pointed out, that can do this. The fact of the matter is
> > that you can't change the pitch without changing the
> tempo.
> > You can maybe adjust a song by 2 beats which would be a 1
> to
> > 1.5% pitch increase and not change the integrity of the
> > song. Yeah the key be the same regardless. 2% is not going
>
> > to effect that but it will sound like the chipmunks if it
> si
> > pitched up to o high. Somebody pointed out a while ago
> that
> > you can't speed up the lyrics and keep the music the same
> or
> > vice versa and have it work. They would be off. The point
> I
> > was trying to point out to Miss A is the fact that
> pitching
> > is used a lot in beatmixing. I'm sure Glen can back me up
> on
> > this. If you take the pitch up too high, well there are
> your
> > chipmunks. Some songs it is very noticable on and some
> they
> > aren't. If Hot is in deed pitching up songs, then you will
>
> > notice it. Espically if you are flipping back and forth
> > between stations playing the same song. So in all fairness
>
> > lets just say we all to prefer to disagre on this subject
> > and lets go back to the orginal question. IF Hot is
> pitching
> > them up, WHY?
> >
>
> I think Mountaineer hit it on the head earlier. Stations do
> it to try to sound brighter and more exciting, more
> up-tempo.
>
> When I was programming WPRR back in the stone ages, I
> received a call from a guy who was in from out of town. He
> asked why our music was slower than it should be. Where he
> was from, all the stations pitched up the songs, so our
> stuff, played at normal pitch, sounded slow to him.
>
> For a time, we had CD players with pitch control, but we
> normally didn't play with the pitch. I'll admit that I would
> sometimes play with it just for fun. You can pitch some
> songs up 2% and hardly notice, and other songs really stand
> out. Huey Lewis & the News, when pitched up 2%, sounded like
> Alvin & the Chipmunks.

My long fight with mental illness began when I experimented with psychotropic drugs while listening to "Loverboy" pitched at 2 percent. I heard the message "No one snorkles with Jesus" in "Working for the Weekend."
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> Yeah but in however long it is now, they will be moving down
> here with the rest of civilation. Fourtnetly my radio
> doesn't have enough presets to program in the Buzz. So I can
> safely say I will never hear that voice again.
>
WOW....tell us how you really feel....lol. Appreciate it all!!! :)
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> Greg,
>
> Sorry bud, maybe at a strip bar but not in radio. You
> are speeding up the playback that means the voice too. The
> entire selection. The end. AJ is correct. Hilton is right.
> What were you doing with the turntable playing the singing
> only on one at normal speed while taking it up three percent
> while playing the instrumental on another turntable pitched
> up? DDDDDDude whats in the pipe?
>
>
> > OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song
> > up
> > > 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch
> > would
> > > actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that
> > would
> > > be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I
> > knwo
> > > what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> > > Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
> > >
> > > Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too
> and
> > > thought I was hearing things.
> > >
> >
> > this is a silly subject for anyone that knows
> music.....but
> > I have to chime in on this...cause AJ is confussed
> > obviously....um you can raise or lower a pinch in a song
> or
> > a voice...and keep the same tempo....and you can raise or
> > lower the tempo while keeping the same pitch. It's not
> > tough...and not hard to comprehend. i can't spell..i hope
>
> > that's right.....if you can't do it with the software you
> > have...i think it was said in this string, you have junk'
> > get something better...and if you don't believe me...get a
>
> > holg of a Technics DZ 1200 and have fun...cause you can do
>
> > it all day on that piece of equipment. Have a nice day!!
> :)
> >
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
What does a strip club have anything to do with it?? Do you know what a DZ 1200 is?? Obviously not..cause it's a CD player not a turntable and you can do just what i said on it...hell you can do it in cool edit. Try the stretch feature sometime. And I'm sure i've spent just as much time if not more, than whoever this is(you know me but can't leave your name), behind a production console...I don't know some odd 15 years....so i do know what i'm talking about...i don't care if you believe me or not. have a great day...and i'll save ya a hit off the pipe...don't worry duuuuuude....HAHAHAHA :)
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Now would that be the Cool Edit that Roy stole a pirated copy of and you have been using for years now WUBZ or did Magnum finally break down and throw some money in that shack and buy a new copy.
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> Now would that be the Cool Edit that Roy stole a pirated
> copy of and you have been using for years now WUBZ or did
> Magnum finally break down and throw some money in that shack
> and buy a new copy

No, It would be the copy I bought for MY production business. What is the deal...you can't rebut to the facts...cause i'm right. You have to make a personal rip on the company I work for?? i've never ripped on one station....are you jealous or the brand new, state of the art studio we get to move in to soon?? WOW...grow up.

Greg <---look my real name :)
 
Re: Cool

Glad to see that you will get a updated studio. I know tht its been a struggle up there on the mountain at times. I cant help but point out that ALL the stations in State college have new studios within the last three or four years. Yes, the clearview studios are the exception. 3WZ and revolution have almost identical setups new within three years. All the forever stations have great new studios that are clean and well laid out. Everbody in our little town is state of the art as you put it. There are some great engineers here.
 
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