• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

60's and 70's Classic Hits with some 50's?

deltas69 said:
David, I'm 52, I doubt ANYONE would call me a "Senior". i don;t know this person..but i'd bet they know more than 300 to 400 oldies..and i bet they'd like to hear ALL of them..not just a handful that some consultant played ito a small group of people in an auditorium.

First, consultants don't do music tests. The station hires a research company to recruit locally and do the test. And each time a station tests (good ones will do it at least twice a year) they try to find additional titles that might pass... what you hear is just the tip of the iceberg... the 500 or so songs that pass of the thousands a station may have tried many times in past tests.

A properly recruited music test reflects very accurately the taste of the group it represents.

but don't insult our intelligence..we've been 25..ya'll ain't been 57...

No, I have not been 57 for quite some time.
 
dave.. would you enlighten the rest of us as to why you know so much more then we do ? i don't buy the premis that a consultant or a research company knows more about the music than i do. i don't buy the premis that pg, bud, or anyone else knows EXACTLY what their base is..it's a guess..just like your precious research company, or consultant..and before you ask..i'm a professional musician, dj/pd..i've played to thousands of people as a live musician as well as a dj. i've worked with some of nashvilles elite musicians, in the 70's as a dj our station pulled 8 shares from a thousand watt daytimer 30 miles from the nashville market as a top 40 station..i personally have a dj of year nomination as well as a gold record...please note..i'm not bragging..but i throwing out my credentials to verify my ideas and comments...no i haven't been on the air since 1993..but the music i and other s speak of here is timeless..case in point..1967: fifth dimision up up and a way..no 1 song..won a grammy..never heard it on any nashville oldie station more than once a year..if then...but heard the lion sleeps tonight every fifteen minutes...what kind of screwy research is that..it's not the consultants or research companies job to play the music or remember it..it's the jocks...throw us old butts on ..and we know what to play, how to play it..and when to play it..i don't need a format or a clock...and i bet landecker or lujack don't either...you sound like you've been around a while..probably worked for several successful stations..but youv'e bought into the idea that a station HAS to have all this research and out sourcing to get it done..i don't have to have the entire radio pie..but i can have the 5 % slice that appeals to my age group..and i would have 100% of that slice...i'd rather have that than a tiny slice of the other 95%....you and i can agree to disagree...and remain friends..but..i will never concede that some kid in an office 500 mile way knows more about this particular format than i do..won't happen..i do respect your opinion because it seems this is what has probably been the status quo for you...i'm not saying what i might propose would work in every market...the only demo i would concern myself with is 40 to 60 rock/top 40/oldies..whatever you want to label it....and i know EXACTLY what they want to hear in my geographic area..southeast USA..but i would wager people that age nationwide are pretty much the same...now ..lets all go get a beer.......... ;D
 
History is the best teacher. A music library of 500 songs most Oldies listeners like a lot
would beat a station that played 1000-2000 songs, everytime.

I know, I've won and lost at 12 stations in 30 years by following and not following that fact.

This has been true, and documented, since Top 40 radio began in the 50s.

We're not talking about winning with style, creativity, and depth - but winning in the ratings.

The "average" listener who tunes into an Oldies station goes there for familiarity and comfort.
HAPPY TOGETHER by The Turtles - not MA BELLE AMI by the Tee Set.

Music research is just asking listeners of your format how much they like or don't like a song. Are you saying you wouldn't want to know that?
 
hey folks .........you can debate these so called experts all you want, they won't change their story, which made sense in 1972, but not today. Your dream stations are already here on the net, you could be listening right now, and still be typing away at this site. Live365.com has over 10,000 stations, check out Golden Oldies with Diane J(voted number one by the listeners), plays thousands of cuts in a nice balanced format, and guess what , no advertisers or consultants to drive their format, it's called listener friendly. The technology is right around the corner for net listeninmg in your car and then Commercial Radio will sit up and listen and change or they will disappearrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Even Satellite radio is the same old stale songs repackaged by genre, by decade, etc, once you listen for a while its the, same old, same old. Remember satellite is programmed by recycled commercial people. Go To live365.com NOW!
 
DavidEduardo I can name many #1 songs from that era that are almost universally hated today, and are totally unplayable.

What, Winchester Cathedral, The Candy Man, Ben, The Morning After, Angie Baby, Billy Don't Be A Hero, Afternoon Delight, Mandy, Theme from Mahogany, Undercover Angel, You Needed Me, Sad Eyes, ....etc..

Most probably dislike them, but some do like them and are revelent to them. I don't hate them, they are not my favorites, but I don't hate them. They exist & they were huge hits back then. They would be playable in specialties & countdowns and stations targeting 55+ would air these specialties every one in a while, whether or not they'd include these "hated" #1 songs.

David Eduardo If they are over 55, commercial radio can not serve them. Buy a satellite radio subscription and leave us alone.

What proof is there to this? How do YOU know that! There are many posters that agree with radio serving 55+ and having more than just 488 songs in rotation. Sure, I'll leave YOU alone then!
 
oldies76 said:
Most probably dislike them, but some do like them and are revelent to them. I don't hate them, they are not my favorites, but I don't hate them. They exist & they were huge hits back then. They would be playable in specialties & countdowns and stations targeting 55+

There aren't any commercial stations targeting 55+ save a handful of remaining smaller market standards stations and a bunch of unrated market or small market oldies stations that depend almost 100% on local direct business.

What proof is there to this? How do YOU know that! There are many posters that agree with radio serving 55+ and having more than just 488 songs in rotation. Sure, I'll leave YOU alone then!

There is no revenue in the larger markets for a station that is mostly 55+. I recently asked a manager in a very large market how many 55+ buys they had seen come up in the past 12 months, and was told, "I don't think I saw a single one come up." If there are no buys, there is no revenue and the is, thus, no programming to 55+.
 
oldies76 said:
What, Winchester Cathedral, The Candy Man, Ben, The Morning After, Angie Baby, Billy Don't Be A Hero, Afternoon Delight, Mandy, Theme from Mahogany, Undercover Angel, You Needed Me, Sad Eyes, ....etc..

Oh-uh! The Morning After, Afternoon Delight, Mandy and Sad Eyes are all on my personal favorites list.

Guess I'm not an "average" olde farte.
 
landtuna Oh-uh! The Morning After, Afternoon Delight, Mandy and Sad Eyes are all on my personal favorites list.

Guess I'm not an "average" olde farte.

Well, at least someone likes music that is rarely heard on radio these days. And there are probably more out there that enjoy other "hits", than the daily earful, radio spits out nowadays.
 
Hey, oldies 76, you are half-right with the example you cited. "What I Like About You" by the Romantics still gets played, but here in Nashville, "Talking In Your Sleep" also still gets played. On the AC station, no less! What I agree with you on is the revisionist history that stations use with regard to whether or not to play something. "What I Like About You" literally never got played on any station that I was able to pick up in 1980! This is also true for "I Melt With You" by Modern English. I can only guess that the latter has been (re)popularized by its use in Burger King and Taco Bell commercials in recent years. In the case of both "What I Like About You" and "I Melt With You," I can only say that these two are more popular now than they were in their heyday. Maybe they weren't fully appreciated when they were "hits," I don't know. It seems to me that if anyone were going to play "What I Like About You," they would go for the Michael Morales version, which was #28 in 1989 (still not a big hit, but at least made the top 40!), and which I do remember hearing on the radio back during its run on the charts! If any of these radio "testers" ever come to me for my opinion, I will rate the Michael Morales version higher, because I actually remember it, I like it better, and I actually have some memories associated with it, other than JUST hearing it as an "oldie" on "oldies" radio.

I am beginning to think that the people that radio "samples" and asks for their opinion are the same people who can't get out of jury duty! ::)
 
firepoint525 said:
I am beginning to think that the people that radio "samples" and asks for their opinion are the same people who can't get out of jury duty! ::)

Jury duty does not pay $50 to $150 for two hours of work.
 
Jury duty does not pay $50 to $150 for two hours of work. and how are these lucky few chosen ? an ad in the paper? i imagine just about anyone would show up for that amount of money in a short time..what makes these people viable as research panalists? how many listen to the format in question ? do they fill out a paper citeing their relevant knowledge of said format ? how many listen to country, or other formats as their favorite ? did these people listen to rock in the 60's and 70's ? these people that show up..do they not have jobs ? how can they take time to show up for this ? are these tests given on the weekends ? i ask all of this as i don't have a clue how it's done..but these seem to be logical qustions to me. if this is how stations decide what oldies to play,no wonder there are only 300 songs in rotation. pay someone 150 bucks for listening to a minute of 200 songs and they' will say whatever it takes to get it over and get the $$$$$$$.. :eek:
 
deltas69 said:
Jury duty does not pay $50 to $150 for two hours of work. and how are these lucky few chosen ?

Local recruiters, who provide respondents for all kinds of research, generally use one of severl random sampling techniques to come up with people who fit the research company requirements. A traditional AC might require 100 women 35 to 54, equal in 35-44 and 45-54, P1 to the station with a minimum of 5 hours a week of listening. The recruiter finds these people, using systems similar to those used by Arbitron.

an ad in the paper? i imagine just about anyone would show up for that amount of money in a short time..what makes these people viable as research panalists? how many listen to the format in question ? do they fill out a paper citeing their relevant knowledge of said format ? how many listen to country, or other formats as their favorite ? did these people listen to rock in the 60's and 70's ? these people that show up..do they not have jobs ?

Each station will have different recruit gates. Since the testing is for music, and the respondents have to be familiar with the music, the first gate opens if a person uses radio a certain nbumber of hours a week of the sponsor station or a direct or overlapping competitor.

Other recruit specifications would be designed to get ethnic quotas that match the station, age cells that match where 75% to 80% of the useful listening occurs (no 55+ for example), other station shared with, morning show preference, etc.

how can they take time to show up for this ?

They take about 2 hours to 2.5 hours, on weeknights. Sometimes weekends are used, but the show rate is lower and recruit costs higher. There is no problem in any format to get people to show up, but the incentive will be higher in some areas... Long Island is around $150 while Colorado Springs might be $60 to be there for 2 hours.

if this is how stations decide what oldies to play,no wonder there are only 300 songs in rotation. pay someone 150 bucks for listening to a minute of 200 songs and they' will say whatever it takes to get it over and get the $$$$$$$.. :eek:

Large library stations will often do two night tests, and do up to 1200 to 1400 songs, 700 per night. The incentive is doubled. And the song hooks played are about 7 to 8 seconds long. Any longer, the listeners get bored and fatigued very fast. Nearly 100% of people vote their score before the 6th second, by the way.

More at http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio Research.htm where there are actual pictures of a music test and a fuller description.
 
They're screened by whether they listen to your format: Oldies, CHR, Country, etc...
They MUST listen to your format, at least sometimes, to be included. Usually half of them choose your station first. I've attended many of the tests, the 100 people in the ballroom of a hotel seem to really enjoy it. You see them singing along and tapping they're feet. The Oldies tests I've sat in on seem to include every socio-economic group.

They hear only about 8 seconds of each song, the hook, the most recognizable part of the song.
The reason for 8 seconds is that's about how long they would give the song before they would either change the station or decide to leave it on if they were in their car. They score it on a 1 to 5 scale and on whether the recognize it. Most Oldies listeners would tune out a song they don't recogonize because that's not why they came to your station. We know this because we ask them in one on one sessions. They want the familiarity and comfort of a song they know, and like.

That's why deeper cuts and less familiar songs don't get played. I do believe you can do specialty programming on the weekend that allows you to go deeper, as long as you clearly let your listeners know that
are are doing something special. My station is doing a Novelty Hits Weekend. Two or three per hour.
Songs we don't normally play.
 
surfdude said:
They're screened by whether they listen to your format: Oldies, CHR, Country, etc...
They MUST listen to your format, at least sometimes, to be included. Usually half of them choose your station first. I've attended many of the tests, the 100 people in the ballroom of a hotel seem to really enjoy it. You see them singing along and tapping they're feet. The Oldies tests I've sat in on seem to include every socio-economic group.

They hear only about 8 seconds of each song, the hook, the most recognizable part of the song.
The reason for 8 seconds is that's about how long they would give the song before they would either change the station or decide to leave it on if they were in their car. They score it on a 1 to 5 scale and on whether the recognize it. Most Oldies listeners would tune out a song they don't recogonize because that's not why they came to your station. We know this because we ask them in one on one sessions. They want the familiarity and comfort of a song they know, and like.

That's why deeper cuts and less familiar songs don't get played. I do believe you can do specialty programming on the weekend that allows you to go deeper, as long as you clearly let your listeners know that
are are doing something special. My station is doing a Novelty Hits Weekend. Two or three per hour.
Songs we don't normally play.

Good perspective, and your comments should show the dreamers out there that we actually find out from listeners what they want to hear.

I should have mentioned that there are two ways of doing the logistics of testing. One is what you describe, a score sheet where each song is scored just like a school test. The forms are scanned and tabulated. The other method is based on a dial like the ones CNN and Fox used to score the debates and primary speeches. There, the results can be seen instantly and usually delivered to the station the next morning.

Either way, they hear 8 seconds and score. I've done some tests, and anything over 10 seconds is too long, and makes the participant tire quickly. 8 seconds makes the test move quickly and is enjoyable, as you say. It IS common for participants to sing with the best songs, and big cool currents get "woo!" sounds, especially with CHR or hip hop audiences.

I have done paralell on air tests, too. In Buenos Aires, we did a form with 1100 songs on a page in a newspaper that circulated about 1.2 million copies (the market is bigger than NY) and got 40 thousand back. A random sample of them was nearly parallel with the "real" music test, which, there, we did one on one in home with a moderator, and not in hotel meeting rooms which was not a culturally accoustomed thing to do.

Listeners love to be part of a test, as many people do not have their opinion taken into account very often. A music test allows them to count and to be part of putting the best music on the air.

I agree that many songs can be played in specialty shows that are not right for regular play. Just as we sell new songs, specialty shows "justify" playing what are ordinarily stiffs. In such a context, I might even put up with "Honey" one more time. ;D
 
ok..now i'm educated on HOW this is done..but i find it hard to believe that out of 1400 songs, this crowd can only recognize 300 or so songs..they surely have listened to hundreds and hundreds more than that when these songs were released new...yet i'm being told they can only remember these few? maybe i rememember them all because i was playing them..but the listener was hearing them at the same time..i don't comprehend this . i'm being told that while they remember born to be wild..they don't recognize sookie sookie ? of course none of this changes my mind at all......i contend that played by jocks that know the music..ALL the songs can be played ..and people will listen..
 
David Eduardo I agree that many songs can be played in specialty shows that are not right for regular play. Just as we sell new songs, specialty shows "justify" playing what are ordinarily stiffs. In such a context, I might even put up with "Honey" one more time.

This is along the lines of what I have said or trying to say for the last month or so. Stick with the basics (488 songs or so)and play the deeper cuts, the untested ones, the cheesies, the low chartes..etc.. during specialty weekends.

This is exactly what WCBS does and why it appeals. Actually CBS will air a few "extras" during weekday evenings too.
 
deltas69 ok..now i'm educated on HOW this is done..but i find it hard to believe that out of 1400 songs, this crowd can only recognize 300 or so songs..they surely have listened to hundreds and hundreds more than that when these songs were released new...yet i'm being told they can only remember these few?

Pretty sad!! I think they can only recognize 300..because the stations they've listened too, since these "other" hits were taken off the air, only played the successful "tested" music since.

It makes them "forget" that the others even existed. So when one is played on a themed weekend, these people would say.." Boy, haven't heard that one in a while" or "Wow, I remember that one way back..it reminds me of my girl back in 73".

Yet these "forgotten songs", were HUGE hits in the day.

This tells me that most oldies & classic hits stations have "brainwashed" most average listeners..into thinking..these 300 or 500 are the only hits in town! Let pick them again...so the repetitious cycle drags on...year after year. It's a fact.
 
firepoint525 Hey, oldies 76, you are half-right with the example you cited. "What I Like About You" by the Romantics still gets played, but here in Nashville, "Talking In Your Sleep" also still gets played. On the AC station, no less! What I agree with you on is the revisionist history that stations use with regard to whether or not to play something. "What I Like About You" literally never got played on any station that I was able to pick up in 1980! This is also true for "I Melt With You" by Modern English. I can only guess that the latter has been (re)popularized by its use in Burger King and Taco Bell commercials in recent years. In the case of both "What I Like About You" and "I Melt With You," I can only say that these two are more popular now than they were in their heyday.

You are exactly right firepoint525. I never recalled hearing these two songs on Top 40 radio in '80 and '83.

The funny, opposite thing is, "Rock Lobster" which played frequently in 1980 & early 81 in Southern California, peaked just at 56 in '80, nationally. Maybe it was more of a local hit there.

The re-popularization effect worked big time for 1965's "Unchained Melody" in 1990 Ghost..You still hear it big today, 18 years after Ghost.
 
why play them on a themed weekend ? why not play the whole 4000 or so playlist ? if they can remember their old girl friend from 73 on a weekend..surely they can remember her on a thursday afternoon..i'm not saying don't play the same 300..just insert all then others with proper jingles, sandwich them in between the tested stuff..yea..they might not have thought of Ringo (lorne greene, 1964, #1) since they were in the 9th grade..but play that, properly inserted,,and i bet they say..holy $**t ..where'd that come from ..or navy blue by diane ray..they don't have to be one hit wonders like these two.and yes the listener has been dumbed down by having the same songs thrown at them day after day...i understand that captureing and keeping a listner is what it's all about..you got an hour or so in drive times..but that doesn;t mean you have to hear, pretty woman, the loin sleeps tonight, and do you love me, every morning and afternoon at the same time..but hopefully i'm beginning to make my case to the rock jury here.one thing is for sure i obviously have a totaly different take on what and how to play this genre' than most others, ..lol..
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom