Alt 92.3 to Become WINS Simulcast

[JeremyAndrews]

Does any major chain do AAA? Seems to me the format is found mainly on non-commercial stations, plus a few small-time operations in small or even unrated markets. There are a couple of commercial AAAs here in Western New England -- WRSI in Turners Falls, MA, and WWOD in Woodstock. VT, but the former is Saga, the latter Great Eastern Radio. Saga is decent-sized, but nothing like Audacy, iHeart or Cumulus, and is mostly in medium to small markets. Great Eastern operates only in New Hampshire and Vermont.

Audacy does AAA. Entercom pre CBS had WMMM in Madison. They also kept WXRT. They used to have more pre CBS. A few of them flipped.

Cumulus does AAA. They have WQKL in Ann Arbor, MI (Which was originally owned by Clear Channel) The format has been pretty much exactly the same since Clear Channel. They copied this presentation and localized it in Grand Rapids, MI on WKLQ. They also have KRMW in Fayetteville, AR and KBXR in Columbia, MO.

I believe iHeart's only AAA station these days is KBCO. They had more, but like I said they flipped them to Alternative because they do not have a nationalized version of the AAA format.

There's few of these, because all of them have some form of local talent, which costs money. And local programming, which costs money. Usually smaller companies run these. Smaller companies also tend to, not always have more local talent than the major companies who can easily voice track from other stations.

As far as WNYL, Audacy could have worked and improved the station and they likely could have improved the ratings by fixing the mistakes and figuring out exactly what New York wanted to hear. They did it in Dallas. But that would have cost money. They don't have much money. Flipping to a simulcast of WINS doesn't cost anything. They don't have to pay anybody to run it. It may or may not solve WINS' longterm problem. They say it NEEDS an FM simulcast but does it really? Will younger listeners tune in to News radio? It seems like a lot of those people are getting their news elsewhere. What people really tune into News radio stations for is traffic reports. If anything it might save them the effort of having to switch back and forth between AM and FM. Other stations could add more frequent traffic reports in the drive times and they would probably keep at least some people from tuning over to WINS for traffic. WTOP, same deal. Obviously it's DC, so news is really an important thing there. A lot of our news comes from there. But otherwise a lot of people listen to WTOP for their traffic reports. Passive listeners who don't listen consistently. Only go for one thing really quick and then switch back. Traffic seems to be the top of the list for news stations. They are on at predictable times 1s, 2s, 8s, etc so people know when to tune.

Most music stations' traffic reports are basically commercials disguised as traffic reports. But that's a completely different story.

 

[tvk5195]

I don't understand why anyone ever thought it would be feasible to try to convince Gen Z to tune into FM radio by playing 24kGoldn and Machine Gun Kelly but here we are.

This is what Cane and Corey said on their one podcast. Audacy was trying to get Gen Z to tune in but they don't really listen to the radio especially in NYC where most people rely on public transit - ruling out FM listening in the car. They should've targeted the older end of the demo that grew up with K-ROCK.

 

[davideduardo]

This is what Cane and Corey said on their one podcast. Audacy was trying to get Gen Z to tune in but they don't really listen to the radio especially in NYC where most people rely on public transit - ruling out FM listening in the car. They should've targeted the older end of the demo that grew up with K-ROCK.

While it is true that in-car listening is lower in the New York market, only a percentage of people... mostly those commuting into Manhattan... use public transit. Lots of people who work in offices and stores and businesses outside of New York City and the Boroughs use cars to commute and travel, just as they do in LA or Dallas or wherever.

 

[p_herring]

While it is true that in-car listening is lower in the New York market, only a percentage of people... mostly those commuting into Manhattan... use public transit. Lots of people who work in offices and stores and businesses outside of New York City and the Boroughs use cars to commute and travel, just as they do in LA or Dallas or wherever.

Makes sense. If anything a station like Alt 92.3 was going to target people in the suburbs (as I assume K-Rock did in its day) given the demographics of the city and the fact that alternative fans in NYC proper probably long abandoned terrestial radio.

 

[TheBigA]

While not specifically about the Alt format, this article explains some of the current difficulties of singling out potential hits from the flood of new music.

I agree. It's easier to create hits when you have fewer outlets that are more concentrated. Once you dilute it, and spread more music out to more places, the music itself becomes less impactful. At one time, music was a unifier. In many ways, today it's a divider. Some of it along political lines, as fans identify with the political views of their favorite stars. I feel that's not good for music because you alienate half of your audience.

 

[macattack]

One format iHeart doesn't have a lot of is AAA. Similar to Alternative, without the local flavor it's pointless. That format thrives on local. They had a few that they shifted to the generic Alternative format because they don't have a generic AAA log to plug into them.

Alternative tends to do well or OK for them in markets where they do have some sort of local flavor (DC101, KTCL, Alt 98.7, etc)

iHeart only has one AAA that I know of - KBCO in Denver. It usually winds up adding songs from Alt that cross to AAA as its current selection, likely because there is no generic AAA log and iHeart doesn't trust the AAA-exclusive singles (or doesn't want to spend resources researching them). I think iHeart would have flipped KBCO long ago if they had a viable format to flip it to - complicating things is the presence of Channel 93.3 aka KTCL, which as noted is a pretty unique Alt by iHeart standards itself.

 

[101tm]

Everyone keeps talking about K-ROCK’s glory days. Don’t forget one word: Stern. Without Stern, it wasn’t a very successful station. If the format didn’t do that well outside of morning drive 20 years ago, it certainly isn’t going to now. K-ROCK V2 failed. WRXP failed. It’s just not going to work in NYC, and WNYL was likely the final attempt. Audacy stuck with Alt for 5 years. That’s more than you can say for most companies with stations that performed like Alt has.

 

[mikerock]

Everyone keeps talking about K-ROCK’s glory days. Don’t forget one word: Stern. Without Stern, it wasn’t a very successful station. If the format didn’t do that well outside of morning drive 20 years ago, it certainly isn’t going to now. K-ROCK V2 failed. WRXP failed. It’s just not going to work in NYC, and WNYL was likely the final attempt. Audacy stuck with Alt for 5 years. That’s more than you can say for most companies with stations that performed like Alt has.

Without even trying WRXP 2.0 hit over a 3.0 that month with the placeholder format. Imagine what the ratings could have been if they stuck with it.

As already discussed in this thread they stuck with completely obviously doing what does not work anywhere else despite all warnings otherwise.

K-Rock sucked because typical NYC radio they always get Alternative horribly wrong, same with RXP 1.0 and WNYL. I bet if WNYL New Arrivals on HD2 was on the main channel long ago they would have done far better. I base that on the formula that seemed to work, however brief and in other cities. But NYC Alternative is always lets play repetitively the same songs from the early 90s, running effectively jockless without personality and add in songs that don't fit the format.

It is not all that hard, they almost got it right when they first flipped and should have stuck with it. A popish new Top 40 or Top 100 Alternative could have worked they just don't stick with it.

People that want new music do not want to hear Smells Like Teen Spirit, A Story of Girl multiple times a day or tired old No Doubt from the 90s.

Even the attempt they are making now with Classic Alternative sounds a bit better, of course because they are flipping formats. Typical of NYC radio, only do the right thing before you flip formats. I bet the ratings this month will be better than all year. (Who knows maybe they are doing so to make WINS look good in their first month hoping to build on that rating momentum). Then why the heck did they not tweak it this way much earlier. Typical NYC treatment of any rock genre.

 

[MarkW]

I once read WRXP was on pace to bill about $16 million in its final year before the plug was pulled. Although most FMs based in Manhattan were doing $25 million and above at the time, given RXP's relatively short shelf life, lack of compatible sister stations, and ho-hum ratings, I thought that number (assuming it was honest) wasn't bad.

K-Rock version 2.0 was flat out awful. Tracy Floherty (spelling?) was a terrible PD. Later on, the station made a hard pivot to tightly playlisted classic rock, which accomplished nothing. Playlist was a replica of (the failing) WYSP at the time.

 

[leethalweapon]

Without even trying WRXP 2.0 hit over a 3.0 that month with the placeholder format. Imagine what the ratings could have been if they stuck with it.

Add to this, the station (from memory) was a lot more current/recurrent driven than most Alternative stations at the time or since. Plus, was musically adventurous.

 

[MVB13]

RXP 2.0 was the best station we had here in NYC. Alt was a hot mess. 24K Golden has catchy music but he doesn't belong on Alternative Rock Radio. Still not sure why MGK doesn't totally belong on Alternative Radio because he was Punk Rock.

 

[MVB13]

I think a AAA could work in NYC. Look at the Peak at 107.1 we should have something like that in NYC.

 

[101tm]

From what I’m reading, I’m guessing DC101 wouldn’t be extremely popular with many alternative fans - at times, it can sound musically sound like a modern AC station if you aren’t paying attention. A lot of hard stuff is avoided, very friendly to pop-Alt material, and a lot of older stuff like “Mr. Jones”, “Lovefool”, “Closing Time”, etc.

“Sit Next to Me”, “Wake Me Up”, “How to Save a Life” are some of the Alt to pop crossover golds they still have in rotation. It’s a unique alternative…musically very non offensive. DC101 is a night and day difference between KTBZ or even KYSR.

 

[TheBigA]

I think a AAA could work in NYC. Look at the Peak at 107.1 we should have something like that in NYC.

There is a AAA station. It's WFUV. There's also WFMU. Listen sometime. Maybe send them a check.

We're at a point where the listeners have to pay for certain types of radio. Don't depend on others to pay for what you like.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

From what I’m reading, I’m guessing DC101 wouldn’t be extremely popular with many alternative fans - at times, it can sound musically sound like a modern AC station if you aren’t paying attention. A lot of hard stuff is avoided, very friendly to pop-Alt material, and a lot of older stuff like “Mr. Jones”, “Lovefool”, “Closing Time”, etc.

“Sit Next to Me”, “Wake Me Up”, “How to Save a Life” are some of the Alt to pop crossover golds they still have in rotation. It’s a unique alternative…musically very non offensive. DC101 is a night and day difference between KTBZ or even KYSR.

These are market specific. Houston prefers it's heavier stuff, KTBZ does well. KYSR is nothing really impressive, but it has local talent and has done well with KROQ right next to it.

Denver, KTCL is current heavy. They'll even mix in some Hip-Hop (Outkast) Couple reasons for that. The market, and the fact that iHeart pretty much has every major rock format in the book in Denver. It has it's own thing going in that cluster.

 

[mikerock]

There is a AAA station. It's WFUV. There's also WFMU. Listen sometime. Maybe send them a check.

We're at a point where the listeners have to pay for certain types of radio. Don't depend on others to pay for what you like.

I do listen to them quite a bit, the problem with WFUV is they are not full time Alternative. It is everything thrown in, College sports and all kinds of other programming.

But I suspect when I do not have time to connect my phone or forget before driving, I will be tuned into them when Alt leaves 92.3.

 

[leethalweapon]

RXP 2.0 was the best station we had here in NYC. Alt was a hot mess. 24K Golden has catchy music but he doesn't belong on Alternative Rock Radio. Still not sure why MGK doesn't totally belong on Alternative Radio because he was Punk Rock.

This statement here sums up why people don't get the Alternative format. I've said it before, ALTERNATIVE ISN'T ROCK... Rock is "a piece" in a genre fluid format. 24K Golden, Billie Eillish, Blink 182, Death Cab For Cutie, Parlaye Royal, The Beth's, Broken Bells, Dayglow, Milky Chance, Spoon, Phoenix... These are some of the bands that would make an Alternative format.

 

[Marcos_C]

There is a AAA station. It's WFUV. There's also WFMU.

WFMU, though, is a freeform station, which is not the same as a AAA station. WFMU is defintely different from WFUV or any other station in the New York metro area because you never know what to expect when you listen to it.

 

[MVB13]

It can work and it does work in other markets including DC and Philly so why not here?

 

[TheBigA]

It can work and it does work in other markets including DC and Philly so why not here?

Because there are no commercial stations interested in doing it. That's why it's on non-com college stations.

Even in Philly it exists on WXPN owned by U of P.