AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

[tomservo]

Who in their right mind would still use CDMA in this day and age? I was just in the Philippines and all cell carriers are GSM. It seems to be more consumer friendly there since the phone is separate from the service (the SIM card) rather than the monopolistic practice here in the U.S.

All of Japan, all of South Korea, half the US, Canada, probably Mexico. CDMA is still alive and chugging. I just dropped GSM after 16 years of loyal obedience to switch to a smartphone on a regional CDMA carrier.

I'm not happy with it, but with AT&T buying T-Mobile and reducing our GSM choices to one nationwide carrier and a handful of regionals, GSM was no longer a tenable option for me. A pox on AT&T!

It doesn't really matter; everything seems to be migrating to a common LTE standard anyway.

And what this has to do with AM HD is beyond me, but I couldn't resist.

 

[badjef]

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

No it wasn't. I'm watching my local news on rabbit ears right now. Picture quality is
much better than the old analog days. But that's a debate for the National TV board.
;D

Yes, it is! Try taking your TV to a ball game.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

There are digital portables now, and I don't mean video-on-smartphones. I don't know
how good or (probably) bad they are, but I've seen them for around $100. Standard-def, I
assume.

And I never take a TV (or a radio for that matter) to a ballgame. ;D

I bought one of those portable ATSC/NTSC TV’s.
It stays at home - on cable.

It is even more anoying than HD radio.

If analogue OTA TV were still around nobody would be watching the digital. The thread
would be “Re: TV HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES”.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[badjef]

Broadcasting is so much more efficient than a 1 to 1 CDMA digital cellphone signal, it
isn't funny.

Who in their right mind would still use CDMA in this day and age? I was just in the
Philippines and all cell carriers are GSM. It seems to be more consumer friendly there
since the phone is separate from the service (the SIM card) rather than the monopolistic
practice here in the U.S.

WE finally have a standard where you can watch your locats with a nice small VHF/UHF
antenna in your attci; for free! Cable companies and cell phone technologies need to
improve without stealing every inch of analog TV etc.

It's sad that real OTA (analog) TV has been stolen from the public to support the
anti-consumer vertical monopoly of the cell phone stores. The FM band (VHF II) may be
next. We might be lucky if they would leave the AM band alone but their greedy hands
may take that too (along with SW and LW)!

Motorola wanted the AM band in the mid to late 80’s. They had the advantage of an FCC
commisioner to help precipitate it. The AM stereo “marketplace” decision was a way of
souring the band so that it could be vacated and re-assigned. It didn’t work but killed AM
stereo in the process.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[KeithE4]

Motorola wanted the AM band in the mid to late 80’s. They had the advantage of an FCC
commisioner to help precipitate it. The AM stereo “marketplace” decision was a way of
souring the band so that it could be vacated and re-assigned. It didn’t work but killed AM
stereo in the process.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

What would Motorola have done with it?

 

[badjef]

Motorola wanted the AM band in the mid to late 80’s. They had the advantage of an FCC
commisioner to help precipitate it. The AM stereo “marketplace” decision was a way of
souring the band so that it could be vacated and re-assigned. It didn’t work but killed AM
stereo in the process.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

What would Motorola have done with it?

At that time, cell phone service had just been authorized. Seeing the benefits and opportunities available, there was a thought of being able to use the AM band for that purpose.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[KeithE4]

Motorola wanted the AM band in the mid to late 80’s. They had the advantage of an FCC
commisioner to help precipitate it. The AM stereo “marketplace” decision was a way of
souring the band so that it could be vacated and re-assigned. It didn’t work but killed AM
stereo in the process.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

What would Motorola have done with it?

At that time, cell phone service had just been authorized. Seeing the benefits and opportunities available, there was a thought of being able to use the AM band for that purpose.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Talk about a complete disaster if that had happened! Everybody and his grandmother would have been able to hear someone's phone call. It was possible on the old 800 MHz FM system as well, but not everybody had a scanner or an old TV that tuned up to Channel 83. Everybody had an AM radio.

 

[badjef]

Motorola wanted the AM band in the mid to late 80’s. They had the advantage of an FCC
commisioner to help precipitate it. The AM stereo “marketplace” decision was a way of
souring the band so that it could be vacated and re-assigned. It didn’t work but killed AM
stereo in the process.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

What would Motorola have done with it?

At that time, cell phone service had just been authorized. Seeing the benefits and
opportunities available, there was a thought of being able to use the AM band for that
purpose.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Talk about a complete disaster if that had happened! Everybody and his grandmother
would have been able to hear someone's phone call. It was possible on the old 800 MHz
FM system as well, but not everybody had a scanner or an old TV that tuned up to
Channel 83. Everybody had an AM radio.

Well, at that time, those specific details had not been discussed. I’m sure it would have
been an evelutionary process. Besides, we had duplexed interconnects that allowed for
unlimited 3 minute local phone calls. Whoever had a radio or a scanner could listen in to
the conversation. I still have one of those radios. The company was around the corner
from me. It is gone and the two antennas they had have been removed.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[N1WVQ]

I don't understand. How would it have worked? Those wavelengths are so long! What would the antenna be? Would everyone be driving around with towers on their trunks?

In other news, A.M. HD still sucks.

 

[badjef]

I don't understand. How would it have worked? Those wavelengths are so long! What
would the antenna be? Would everyone be driving around with towers on their trunks?

In other news, A.M. HD still sucks.

Yeah, I guess. At least in the way in which it was decided.

But, I think they were looking more long distance for that application. Kinda like the
modern AT&T Long Lines.
But, again, I don’t think it ever was thought that far ahead. Cell phone coverage was Gulf
of Mexico and major cities at that time.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[N1WVQ]

So would've it been akin to the VHF telephone service on 152Mc.?

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Yep, 1976, with a TUBE VHF Hi Band Motorola tuner, I could listen to my local Fire Department, and TELEPHONE calls around 152 MHz, and VOICE paging too - like "Dr. Jones call 1175" etc...Thing is, all of this stuff would still work if it was fired-up; how many digital products will still work 35 years later?

 

[KeithE4]

Yep, 1976, with a TUBE VHF Hi Band Motorola tuner, I could listen to my local Fire Department, and TELEPHONE calls around 152 MHz, and VOICE paging too - like "Dr. Jones call 1175" etc...Thing is, all of this stuff would still work if it was fired-up; how many digital products will still work 35 years later?

If the digital products were designed with good engineering practices and not as a convoluted cluster**** (read: HD radio), probably all of them. Digital can be just as good as analog, but it has to be designed and implemented properly.

Radioteletype is a digital mode and it's been working for over 60 years. Even good ol' Morse Code is digital, and it's been around in one form or another for about 170 years. It just depends on how it's put together (spark gap - bad, sine-wave oscillator - good).

Trying to stuff too many bits into a given channel width can make a digital system problematic (like digital TV for some people). So can glomming a digital signal on top of and around an analog signal.

 

[badjef]

So would've it been akin to the VHF telephone service on 152Mc.?

VHF marine radio had channels that were operator assist. Meaning they placed the call for you and took your credit card or collect call. The interconnect utilized the DTMF keypad incorporated in the mic. You "dialed" the local call. Everybody listening could hear both parts of the conversation. Yes, even the credit card number and tones.

Those were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[spunker88]

I remember back in the 90s you could hear people talking on analog TVs somewhere around channel 80 or so. I had an old TV with an analog tuning knob that went all the way up through the 80s. Was that analog cell phone service or some weird harmonics?

Back to the topic HD is a waste of time and money. Sure we are in a recession but as others have said iPhones, Droids, etc are selling great. I was in Best Buy and all the rage in the music/radio section was internet/pandora radio and iPod/iPhone docks. You'd have a hard time even finding an HD radio for sale there. Retailers know what sells, and when you see no HD radios around anymore then its a bad sign for HD.

Digital has its place in radios, and thats in DSP chips like the one in the Sony XDR-F1HD that can bring in weak signals, lock into stereo easier, clean up background noise, and filter adjacent channel noise.

 

[badjef]

I remember back in the 90s you could hear people talking on analog TVs somewhere
around channel 80 or so. I had an old TV with an analog tuning knob that went all the
way up through the 80s. Was that analog cell phone service or some weird harmonics?

That was cell transmission. TV Channels 70-83 were re-allocated to the “future”
cell service.

Back to the topic HD is a waste of time and money. Sure we are in a recession but
as others have said iPhones, Droids, etc are selling great. I was in Best Buy and all the
rage in the music/radio section was internet/pandora radio and iPod/iPhone docks. You'd
have a hard time even finding an HD radio for sale there. Retailers know what sells, and
when you see no HD radios around anymore then its a bad sign for HD.

The recesion is highly overrated.
Great goods and services will have people breaking down the doors for it.

Digital has its place in radios, and thats in DSP chips like the one in the SonyXDR-F1HD that can bring in weak signals, lock into stereo easier, clean up background
noise, and filter adjacent channel noise.

That’s not digital, that it just better design. Most of the time digital is a buzz word for
marketing/confusion.

Remember the phrase, “If you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with
your bulls**t.”

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[calstymes]

This thread that won't die is starting to rekindle the flavors of passion on the message board I once knew and loved, when Savage amazingly proferred:

HD Radio on the AM band is a kluged, glitchy semi-functional mess which was launched for reasons of political correctness as opposed to accomplishing anything productive. As such it's not surprising that HD-AM has totally failed in the marketplace. You can't even buy a new HD-AM capable radio any more.

Of course HD has worsened AM's fortunes instead of representing a solution. That the interference is terrible is beyond serious dispute. The interference to host stations and distant adjacents is indisputable.

Literally the only entities still employing HD-AM are those who have it in pursuit of some personal or professional agenda. It has nothing to do with trying to attract an audience.

Never before were more truer words spoken. You are spot on, brother Bob and thank you for continuing to add a voice of clarity and sanity to this long, painful and arduously unsuccessful experiment known as 'HD'!

 

[spunker88]

Then there are some AM stations who have absolutely no reason to still be broadcasting in AM HD. An example is 810 WGY from Albany, NY. They now have an analog FM simulcast on a Class A 5.6kw station. This station also has HD itself. I imagine most people will listen to the analog FM signal since its probably more reliable than the AM HD signal of a 50kw station and doesn't require any HD equipment to receive. So why not just shut off the IBOC on 810 AM, since anybody within the range that can pick up the HD signal will be able to get the FM signal also. Anybody outside the FM signal would only be able to get the AM in analog anyways.

There are other stations like this in the country. There are also many more AM HD stations that have an FM HD only subchannel. But even then if a listener already has an HD radio the FM subchannel will be more reliable than the AM HD signal especially during a thunderstorm.

 

[badjef]

Then there are some AM stations who have absolutely no reason to still be broadcasting in AM HD. An example is 810 WGY from Albany, NY. They now have an analog FM simulcast on a Class A 5.6kw station. This station also has HD itself. I imagine most people will listen to the analog FM signal since its probably more reliable than the AM HD signal of a 50kw station and doesn't require any HD equipment to receive. So why not just shut off the IBOC on 810 AM, since anybody within the range that can pick up the HD signal will be able to get the FM signal also. Anybody outside the FM signal would only be able to get the AM in analog anyways.

There are other stations like this in the country. There are also many more AM HD stations that have an FM HD only subchannel. But even then if a listener already has an HD radio the FM subchannel will be more reliable than the AM HD signal especially during a thunderstorm.

Another example of that is WFLA. The HD on both the AM and FM start going in and out at the Sa-ra-so-ta! County line. (That's not to say they are tight north of that line, it just becomes unlistenable there.)

I think to myself, "if I am going to want a nice strong clean signal, why do I change to the FM-HD-2 simulcast, if the AM anologue signal is clean sounding already." It is where it is iffy is where I want the clean signal and HD is not fullfilling that need because the signal goes completely away, there.

The AM signal is being constantly bombarded by outside interference, from flourescent lighting to data streams. It gets worse seemingly every day. The front ends of these radios are at fault.

HD is being used as the lipstick. And they are letting the pig apply it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Savage]

Whoops! HD-AM pop-count ticks downward once again - to 230, as stations in Fort Myers and Tacoma quiety (literally) throw in the Terrible Towel of iBiquity.

And now, ladies and gentlemen - let me step offstage so the Greek Chorus can give us a few rousing rounds of "AM Radio is Dead Anyway" and all join in the refrain! (Just follow the bouncing ball, a la Mitch Miller.)

Oh, did I mention - my AM is up another 15% YTD? And year after year throws off six figures in BCF? Without the marvels of HD and despite devastating nighttime interference from WBZ-HD?

Such is the lot of a "naysayer" "Luddite".......

Speaking of naysayers, let's all recall the classic observation of how people declaring that something "can't be done" are constantly interrupted by those doing it. In our case, 24-7.

 

[mmnassour]

Interesting....I'd like to know the last AM to turn ON the HD buzz saw and when that was, anyone know?