Another Pittsburgh rimshot?

[Parttimer]

They simulcast the FM about 90%, I think the only time they split it is for schedule conflicts on sports events.

1000 watts on 1450, doesn't get out of Washington county, not an appropriate signal for a standalone talk station.

 

[Biz Listener]

They simulcast the FM about 90%, I think the only time they split it is for schedule conflicts on sports events.

1000 watts on 1450, doesn't get out of Washington county, not an appropriate signal for a standalone talk station.

I don't know. I'd have to think almost anything would be better than wasting the electricity to simulcast music from an FM station on AM. That's just a waste of signal. Who in their right mind would listen to music on an AM station if the exact same thing was on FM, unless maybe they only had an AM crystal set.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

anything on 1450 would have to locally focused

 

[Biz Listener]

anything on 1450 would have to locally focused

I don't dispute that. I just think that any broadcasting company in any market in the country that owns an FM and an AM station, and mostly simulcasts the FM's music programming on their AM station is wasting their AM station.

 

[Parttimer]

Let's put it in this perspective. 1360 is going down the tubes partly because of their signal. This signal covers a fraction of what 1360 does.

WJPA's FM does pretty well with local advertisers. The AM's base would have to come from that same geographic area. There probably isn't much business left, at least not enough to support a live airstaff. Satellite talk typically doesn't sell well to the mom-and-pop advertiser, so the odds of this actually making money are pretty slim.

About the only thing you could do would be to go the route of 620/770 and run those "medical advice" shows. ("I'm calling from Barstow and I have this pain..."). And some broadcasters actually have the ethics to reject those quacks.

So while they may be wasting it by your definition, this might just be the option that loses the least money, since there may not be any that will make money.

 

[FreddyE1977]

WJAS is in the top 10 (12+) but it's a bear to sell because its numbers are mostly 55+ and that isn't an audience a lot of advertisers want.

I am always amused when people who sell ad time (or anything else for that matter) keep
bringing up this point.

Here's a news flash........THAT'S THE ONLY DEMOGRAPHIC YOU HAVE IN THIS TOWN!

My wife figured this out on a drive to Florida when she fell in love with all of the 80's format stations
we tuned in along the way, only to have the last one fade out as we were leaving Maryland. That's because
all of the other people who love 80's music have had to leave town to find jobs.

On the plus side, older people often have a good bit of money put away, even if it is a harder job
to get them to part with it. When life hands you lemons.....make lemon-flavored Metamucil!

 

[Biz Listener]

WJAS is in the top 10 (12+) but it's a bear to sell because its numbers are mostly 55+ and that isn't an audience a lot of advertisers want.

I am always amused when people who sell ad time (or anything else for that matter) keep
bringing up this point.

Here's a news flash........THAT'S THE ONLY DEMOGRAPHIC YOU HAVE IN THIS TOWN!

My wife figured this out on a drive to Florida when she fell in love with all of the 80's format stations
we tuned in along the way, only to have the last one fade out as we were leaving Maryland. That's because
all of the other people who love 80's music have had to leave town to find jobs.

On the plus side, older people often have a good bit of money put away, even if it is a harder job
to get them to part with it. When life hands you lemons.....make lemon-flavored Metamucil!

As a 40-something who had to move away from the 'Burgh to get a job, I have to second that statement. If you can't sell to 55+ people, you better move away from Pittsburgh.

 

[Parttimer]

You may be able to sell some small-dollar stuff to local advertisers for the senior crowd, but national agency money drives the big boys and they buy 25-54. Our numbers in that demo are in line with those of smaller markets, but as everyone at my son's kindergarten orientation tonight will tell you, there are plenty of non-seniors here.

Did anyone notice that the Pirate crowd last Sunday was over 30,000? I was there and I can tell you that probably 10,000 of those were kids under 10.

The negative view is that this is an old market. The positive view is that if you look at it terms of maybe market 35-40, this is a relatively healthy market with a solid middle class, that is not stricken with tons of foreclosures driven by people buying new houses they knew they couldn't afford.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

In Sarasota, 1450 and 1320 simulcast an adult standards format. I presume a 1,000 station can work if the format really relavent.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Given that Pittsburgh has an adult standards station frequently in the top 10 ( 12+) , I don't see why oldies on a rimshot FM is such a stretch. CKWW seems to be hanging around Detroit. Pittsburgh has an older population than many markets and a history of doo-wop pioneers. They could just pick up "True Oldies" off the bird with live drive times. What other holes could they fill? Smooth jazz? Pittsburgh has real jazz on WDUQ. Pittsburgh has college radio with city coverage. I think oldies going past 3WS could work as well as anything else. I hope Mr. Ingram posts on this. I'd like his input. OF course All Polkas ALL the Time could worktoo

I'm from Detroit. It and Pittsburgh are like apples and oranges. That's almost like saying go with an all-Motown format in the Motor City (which has been tried and failed).
And while Pittsburgh's population is older, is that older population still made up of active consumers with truly disposable income? I don't think so. I don't see the average
listeners of doo-wop buying Cadillacs, time-shares, investment services, etc. They're more the exception than the norm.

 

[Pratte4Life]

We've touched upon something here and I think it is worth mentioning.

And that is what is really killing Pittsburgh- CYNICISM!

Florida is just as old as Pittsburgh, if not older. Do you ever hear people in Florida say the only demographic in Florida is the senior crowd?

Today in the Post-Gazette there was an article about how Pittsburgh is the fifth-poorest city in America.

http://post-gazette.com/pg/08240/907203-85.stm

Yet on this very same day, I read Forbes magazine ranking Pittsburgh the sixth best city in the country for making a living.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/18/ci...w_0818realestate_slide_6.html?thisSpeed=15000

We can discuss the reasons why Pittsburghers are often so, I'm sorry, miserable.

Even when Bob O'Connor was running for mayor he commented on it.

Is it political? Is it people in the Mon Valley can't get over the loss of steel mills? Is it when there were steel mills the air was so dirty? Is it that we have, sadly, had a great number of media types who have made their names on bashing the city that has made them rich and famous?

Probably a bit of all that.

Regardless, I thought it was telling that while the local paper was telling us how terrible it was in Pittsburgh financially, the national magazine known for building wealth (and making lists) was telling us how great it was.

 

[Biz Listener]

We've touched upon something here and I think it is worth mentioning.

And that is what is really killing Pittsburgh- CYNICISM!

Florida is just as old as Pittsburgh, if not older. Do you ever hear people in Florida say the only demographic in Florida is the senior crowd?

Based on the impressions I get from my parents talking about their friends, the seniors who made enough money to retire comfortably moved to Florida. The seniors who didn't make enough money to retire to Florida stayed in Pittsburgh.

That's not scientific research. That's just repeating some observations about seniors made by seniors.

 

[Parttimer]

That's probably not too far off the mark as far as the seniors are concerned.

But don't become confused by the difference between the city itself and the metro area overall. The city has huge problems, and is in fact very poor and not really turning it around. Same goes for most of the Mon valley. New Kensington is literally a ghost town.

On the other hand, areas like Pine Township/Cranberry, the airport area, and northern Washington County are more than healthy, they are virtually booming. And I spent 13 years in Florida, where homebuilders are now filing bankruptcy in droves, so I do have something to compare it to. If you look at the metro in total it's a relatively healthy place right now, and there are good schools and safe places to live. Not so bad in my book.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Biz- I can believe that, though, like you said, there isn't any scientific research on it.

I remember being surprised when I heard Porky Chedwick was moving to Florida.

Even if you were of the impression it is nicer in Florida with its mild winters and orange grove scents, THIS IS PORKY CHEDWICK!

I mean, if there was ever a place where he would be embraced, it would be Pittsburgh. As the expression goes- I'm sure Porky Chedwick can drink for free in any bar in "tahn" he wants to.

Were 70-something stalkers driving him from Pittsburgh?

Porky Chedwick in Florida is like Myron Cope in Texas. It's like Bob Prince in Tuscon. It's Jimmy Krenn in Seattle. It's Sophie Maslof in Los Angeles.

We can talk about jobs and such (though according to Forbes this ain't a bad place to find one- and I agree with the Cranberry and Washington assessments above), and I've experienced such hardships as well.

But I'm convinced, absolutely convinced, that a rather large part of the problem of Pittsburgh's population loss is because moving from Pittsburgh has become "the thing to do."

 

[Parttimer]

Pork is 90. His choosing to enjoy a couple of warm winters isn't an indictment of the market. Trust me, I'll be back in FL way before that age myself.

In general, there is a population shift to warmer weather. Not just here, but virtually every cold-weather market. But the current economy is way worse in those once-hot southern markets.

My job gives me some insight into consumer spending here and all over the country, and certain big-ticket products are actually doing pretty well in this market right now.

A lot of what you see related to the broadcast industry here is just the incredibly bad management that has killed the business in general.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Part- That goes back to my comment that moving away is "The thing to do."

Go ahead! Abandon your friends! Abandon the life you have known for years.

IT MIGHT SNOW!

 

[Boss Radio]

When discussing issues like population loss, sometimes it's instructive to look beyond the back yard:

*Cleveland Planning Commission website:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/cwp/pop_trend.php

Cleveland’s population has been declining since the 1950s. Thirty-two other U.S. cities are now larger than Cleveland, once the sixth largest city in America.

*Buffalo News, Aug. 23:

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/388818.html

"It’s probably no surprise to anyone, but Buffalo and just about every other city in upstate New York shrank ever so slightly last year, according to the latest estimates from the U. S. Census Bureau.[EDIT]

*Philadelphia Bulletin, 11/7/07:

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19854114&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8

"If there's one thing you have to give Philadelphia's leaders credit for achieving, it's consistency.[EDIT]


*EDIT-truncated because citation exceeds fair use standards. In the future please provide a URL (if possible) to the source and paraphrase the content that exceeds fair use. The content of the post is copyrighted and unauthorized use is a violation of our terms of our terms of service]

 

[Parttimer]

Part- That goes back to my comment that moving away is "The thing to do."

Go ahead! Abandon your friends! Abandon the life you have known for years.

IT MIGHT SNOW!

The difference in my case is that I already lived there for 13 years and I have more family there than here now... but I get your point.

 

[Biz Listener]

Part- That goes back to my comment that moving away is "The thing to do."

Go ahead! Abandon your friends! Abandon the life you have known for years.

IT MIGHT SNOW!

For every senior I knew who retired, giving up going to work every day was abandoning the life he had known for years. Moving to where you don't have to pay an arm and a leg to keep the house warm is nothing compared to adjusting to not going to work anymore. Ask some old retired person about it some time.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Biz- I'll buy that.

But where is it written that therefore retirees must move to counter this hardship?

Boss- good info. Yes, almost all of the northeast is losing population. It ain't 1900 anymore.

I believe the problem isn't so much weather. People move to Montana and Colorado.

I actually saw where Rand McNally rated Pittsburgh as having better weather than Orlando. Remember, it's nicer here in the summer, and a snowstorm isn't anything compared to a hurricane. Plus it rains more in Orlando (HONEST!).

I believe the problem is political, but also cultural, and that is going to lead us back to the radio part of this discussion.

Has there ever been a city where more radio performers literally attacked the city? I'm not talking about legitimate criticism of Pittsburgh- "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY WHEN IT MEANS GIVING THREE PERCENT OF THEIR INCOME TO CITY HALL? Call me at 412-555-TALK!"

I'm talking about Alan Cox complaining that there were too many rednecks around here.

I'm talking about Mark Madden saying that the town was a "City of Cowards" because he invited people into fights in the parking lot and nobody took him up on it.

I'm talking about John McIntire being, well, John McIntire.

There's always the thought that this comes back on the person giving the criticism winds up having it come back harder on them when such criticism comes off irresponsibly. The demise of the above trio's broadcasting careers is testament to this.

However, I do think it has a negative effect on the local culture that encourages "moving the he11 away."

On the encouragement of looking to other areas, would anyone say that Cleveland's population loss of 914,000 to 484,000 wasn't at all affected by the mindset caused when it's nickname went from being "The Best Location in the Nation" during the 914,000 era to "The Mistake on the Lake?"