Another Pittsburgh rimshot?

[kenhawk1160]

Biz- I'll buy that.

But where is it written that therefore retirees must move to counter this hardship?

Boss- good info. Yes, almost all of the northeast is losing population. It ain't 1900 anymore.

I believe the problem isn't so much weather. People move to Montana and Colorado.

I actually saw where Rand McNally rated Pittsburgh as having better weather than Orlando. Remember, it's nicer here in the summer, and a snowstorm isn't anything compared to a hurricane. Plus it rains more in Orlando (HONEST!).

I believe the problem is political, but also cultural, and that is going to lead us back to the radio part of this discussion.

Has there ever been a city where more radio performers literally attacked the city? I'm not talking about legitimate criticism of Pittsburgh- "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY WHEN IT MEANS GIVING THREE PERCENT OF THEIR INCOME TO CITY HALL? Call me at 412-555-TALK!"

I'm talking about Alan Cox complaining that there were too many rednecks around here.

I'm talking about Mark Madden saying that the town was a "City of Cowards" because he invited people into fights in the parking lot and nobody took him up on it.

I'm talking about John McIntire being, well, John McIntire.

There's always the thought that this comes back on the person giving the criticism winds up having it come back harder on them when such criticism comes off irresponsibly. The demise of the above trio's broadcasting careers is testament to this.

However, I do think it has a negative effect on the local culture that encourages "moving the he11 away."

On the encouragement of looking to other areas, would anyone say that Cleveland's population loss of 914,000 to 484,000 wasn't at all affected by the mindset caused when it's nickname went from being "The Best Location in the Nation" during the 914,000 era to "The Mistake on the Lake?"

I think it all boils down to what kind of life you want for yourself in your sunset years and how you intend to reach those goals.

Pittsburgh, because of its low cost of living, actually tends to ATTRACT older residents from other states where the cost of living is substantially higher. Someone who didn't save for the future and only has his house as his investment sells it for almost half a million there, comes to Pittsburgh and buys a small one for him and his wife for say, $50,000, boom...you've got all that money in the bank.

The tradeoff is, can you hack the weather here? Some can, others can't.

Getting back to the matter at hand, bearing this in mind, should we start programming stations to older demos? We shouldn't negate them, that's for sure...as long as you don't take it to the extreme. The doo-wop pre-British Invasion format ideas would fall into this category.

If you want that, you can pop in a CD of "Porky Chedwick Spins the Dusties" (I know it's not available on CD, but humor me here) and listen to it.

Most people I know who are 55 and older tune into stations like WSHH, 3WS or Y-108 for their music. They'll migrate to AM for talk and news. If they live outside of the city, they'll turn on the local AM/FM station if they have one in town that's worth listening to and gives them what they want.

There's always going to be a 25-54 female-dominant demographic in this town. What really makes the difference is how you skew your core.

 

[Parttimer]

Getting back to the matter at hand, bearing this in mind, should we start programming stations to older demos? We shouldn't negate them, that's for sure...as long as you don't take it to the extreme. The doo-wop pre-British Invasion format ideas would fall into this category.

No. You can't make money with it.

The Tampa Bay area's #1 station 12+ the 105.5 WDUV, still basically an easy listening format. It's robo-jocked and not a good biller. It gets killed by the stations with good 25-54s.

Regardless of what percentage of the market is 25-54, they hold the purchasing power and respond to ads. They are the people businesses will pay to reach.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

ok------WHO IS THE BEST BILLER 25=54 IN PITTSBURGH AND IN TAMPA.?????????????? ALTHOUGH I WILL NOT SEE 54 AGAIN, I TRY NOT TO SHOW IT. I WANNA KNOW HOW TO IMPRESS MY DATES THAT I AM YOUTHFUL. I GUESS I TAKE MY PRESETS OFF WDUV WHEN IN TAMPA AND 1320 WHEN IN PITTSBURGH. I WILL BE THERE NEXT WEEK SO I NEED TO KNOW SOON. HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BRAG OF AN APARTMENT IN CARROLLWOOD AAAAAAAAAAND THE MAXON TOWERS?

 

[Biz Listener]

HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BRAG OF AN APARTMENT IN CARROLLWOOD AAAAAAAAAAND THE MAXON TOWERS?

Is that why you're shouting?

 

[MsMusicRadio]

NO-----I FORGOT TO get out of all caps.

 

[Parttimer]

ok------WHO IS THE BEST BILLER 25=54 IN PITTSBURGH AND IN TAMPA.??????????????

Burgh... DVE

Tampa... Good question.... QYK, FLZ and now possibly The Bone with Bubba and Cow.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

What about the number one stations at work? WSHH,WWRM?

 

[Pratte4Life]

I will say this about the Pittsburgh rimshots.

If I had one of them, and you're dealing with brokered programming, I would definitely consider selling some time to the guys like MsMusicRadio who love Doo-Wop and want to have their own shows.

Why not? The audience for it isn't catered to otherwise and there is a market for it.

In this case, you have to get out of the 25-54 mindset. If MsMusicRadio is going to buy the time to play doo-wop, then take her money.

And such a show will attract more listeners to your station who would therefore be more apt to listen to the brokered programming.

 

[Biz Listener]

I will say this about the Pittsburgh rimshots.

If I had one of them, and you're dealing with brokered programming, I would definitely consider selling some time to the guys like MsMusicRadio who love Doo-Wop and want to have their own shows.

Why not? The audience for it isn't catered to otherwise and there is a market for it.

In this case, you have to get out of the 25-54 mindset. If MsMusicRadio is going to buy the time to play doo-wop, then take her money.

And such a show will attract more listeners to your station who would therefore be more apt to listen to the brokered programming.

Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, there might be people who like a particular kind of music for a reason other than because it's what was on the radio when they were in high school? Did anyone ever think that maybe some people might hear doo-wop or surf-rock or any other sort of genre that was popular at an earlier time and might actually like it anyway?

When I went to the Moody Blues concert recently, at least half of the ticket buyers weren't even born until after the last Moody Blues hit record. When I watch the cameras pan the audience at the WQED Doo-Wop TV specials, there's a hell of a lot of people in the audience who were decades younger than the performers, at apparently they liked the music!

 

[cingram]

I will say this about the Pittsburgh rimshots.

If I had one of them, and you're dealing with brokered programming, I would definitely consider selling some time to the guys like MsMusicRadio who love Doo-Wop and want to have their own shows.

Have you ever listened to 770 on Saturdays? It's wall-to-wall oldies from sunrise to sunset, all of it paid for by the program hosts and their sponsors. The oldies listeners are served, the hosts are happy, the station makes money. Everyone wins.

C.

 

[Boss Radio]

Those PBS specials are heavily post-produced. They show younger people (probably PBS staffers) because they want to sell the idea that the specials have a broader appeal than they really do.

The acts aren't really getting standing ovations in the middle of their songs, either. Just TJ playing tricks in post.

Those things take so long to tape that by the end they're telling everyone to move down front so it will look like the theater is still full.

 

[Biz Listener]

Be that as it may, the simple fact is that with everyone having been exposed to a wide variety of musical styles and genres hanks to the existence of so many music format stations that specialize in one kind of music or another, the old theory that people will only listen to music from when they were in high school is probably a bunch of sheep dip now.

Personally, I think the music is everything on a radio station, and that imaging and disc jockeys don't make much difference at all. But, those who disagree with me should, I would think, be jumping on the idea that they can get a station that plays music from one decade to appeal to a much wider audience than just the people who were in high school when the music was new.

Hell, I was in third grade when "Nights in White Satin" was a hit. I discovered the Moody Blues and tons of other great music from my older brothers' album collection and listening to WDVE. I don't think I'm alone in liking more kinds of music than what was popular when I was in high school. My niece is only 14, and she and her friends all think old 70's disco music is the greatest thing going. (I need to have a talk with my sister-in-law about that.)

Maybe there just aren't any broadcasters in the Pittsburgh market smart enough to figure out how to exploit the interest some people have for music other than what was hot when they were in high school.

 

[Parttimer]

I will say this about the Pittsburgh rimshots.

If I had one of them, and you're dealing with brokered programming, I would definitely consider selling some time to the guys like MsMusicRadio who love Doo-Wop and want to have their own shows.

Have you ever listened to 770 on Saturdays? It's wall-to-wall oldies from sunrise to sunset, all of it paid for by the program hosts and their sponsors. The oldies listeners are served, the hosts are happy, the station makes money. Everyone wins.

C.

I'm not sure that anyone on this board actually listens to the radio.

 

[Biz Listener]

I'm not sure that anyone on this board actually listens to the radio.

I guarantee you that I never, ever tune in an AM station to hear music. But that's just me.

 

[Parttimer]

As is the case with most people under 80, which is why I constantly disagree with all the folks who want to do oldies and doo-wop on a non-brokered basis. 770 has it right.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Personally, I think the music is everything on a radio station, and that imaging and disc jockeys don't make much difference at all. But, those who disagree with me should, I would think, be jumping on the idea that they can get a station that plays music from one decade to appeal to a much wider audience than just the people who were in high school when the music was new.

I half-agree with that. Imaging and DJ's do make a difference to some extent. If I want to hear 80's music and nothing else, I can pop in a compilation CD and listen to that. What you do between the songs is what makes you unique. Promotions, live appearances, and yes even commercials are all part of the mix. The Omega study, which was done many years ago, was commissioned to find out why exactly people listened to radio.

What the study found out was that people listened because they don't like to be alone. The jocks, whether robo or live, give you that human element that you feel someone is there.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Getting back to the matter at hand, bearing this in mind, should we start programming stations to older demos? We shouldn't negate them, that's for sure...as long as you don't take it to the extreme. The doo-wop pre-British Invasion format ideas would fall into this category.

No. You can't make money with it.

The Tampa Bay area's #1 station 12+ the 105.5 WDUV, still basically an easy listening format. It's robo-jocked and not a good biller. It gets killed by the stations with good 25-54s.

Regardless of what percentage of the market is 25-54, they hold the purchasing power and respond to ads. They are the people businesses will pay to reach.

I don't quite agree with that. You can make money with it, but if you run it efficiently enough (like plugging in ABC's "Pure Oldies" format and using Metro for your local news drops and weather, plus maybe some H.S. football), you can do OK. You won't get rich, but that's the reason why formats are changed...they stop growing revenue that's in pace with their goals, thus a sudden change. It would be better than having an AM in your portfolio that has a bunch of high-priced "coasting" talent that's not bringing in the numbers.

Or you can do it like AM 770. Pay-to-play. That's worked for Bob all these years and he's managed to make money with it.

 

[Pratte4Life]

And that's why I don't understand the negativity towards these small rimshot stations on this board.

 

[Biz Listener]

And that's why I don't understand the negativity towards these small rimshot stations on this board.

You are looking at the small rimshots as businesses, judging them by whether they are profitable or not. The negativity comes from listeners judging them as whether they are worth listening to or not.

When I tune in a station, I don't care if the owner is making a profit or not. I care about whether what's being broadcast is entertaining to listen to. I appplaud their ability to turn lemons into lemonade, but that doesn't mean I'm going to drink their sour sounding swill.

 

[cingram]

Entertainment, as they say, is in the eye -- or ear --of the beholder.

Most days I can cobble together an entire oldies station from the hours on 770, 810, and 620 (in the evening).

770 has a loyal (if relatively small) following, which probably consists of some of the same people who used to listen to Mad Mike and Porky Chedwick back in the day.

The polka shows on 620 are also popular. When Frank Powaski held his 14-hour "Polka Marathon" earlier this year, he had a polka band from McKeesport playing on the air at 1 AM on the reduced nighttime signal. This lends a whole new definition to the much-discussed phrase "live and local."

And 810 has been airing some old Garry Moore radio shows which I have greatly enjoyed, though they're not sponsored and are probably there to fill the time.

When I listen to the big FM stations, I'm mostly amazed by the sameness and blandness of it all.

C.