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Arrogance and Greed

J

jimerrico

Guest
The backlash against Infinity for killing Oldies in NYC and Chicago is truly unprecedented. Petitions are being passed in NYC and New York Radio Message Board webmaster Allan Sniffen has now compiled over thirteen pages of messages protesting the death of WCBS-FM after 31 years of serving the New York market with oldies.

Over here at Radio-Info, there are nearly three pages of messages on the death of WJMK, and I venture to guess the majority of those are negative. WJMK served Chicago for 21 years at 104.3, and for the most part the station`s ratings were always above average and listenership remained loyal.

What did you get for that loyalty? As expected from Corporate America, a kick in the face. As a reward for all those years of listening, here`s a lousy little Internet stream that will only work if you have Broadband. If you`re stuck on a dial-up, forget your fix of oldies. Instead of broadcasting to tens of thousands, Fred Winston will have to make due with about a hundred, if that.

I can`t recall how many times I`ve stressed over the years on these boards that commercial radio has a death wish. They don`t see it as such because they`re so blinded by their arrogance and their rush to be first with whatever half-assed format idea the genuises have grabbed on to save their sorry fortunes. Since everyone likes the Internet and I-PODS, let`s give them more "variety," let`s say "we`ll play whatever we want," even though, in reality, we`re just giving them more of the same watered-down dreck, this time from a different twenty-five year time span than before and with a slightly larger playlist. Now it will take thirty hours before you hear All She Wants to Do is Dance or She Works Hard for the Money repeated. And, as an added bonus, we`ll take away all the personalities, all the legendary voices we`ve heard for a large part of our lives and replace them with smart-aleck bumpers and sweepers declaring how "JACK" is the coolest thing in radio, when it`s only the latest vehicle designed to fail.

I wish I could say the petitions and postings will work and the corporate suits will see the error of their ways, but I have very little hope. As for those of you who enjoyed the oldies of 104.3, you unwittingly committed the moral sin of aging. Ad agencies do not want to deal with people over 50, once you hit that magic signpost, the only thing you`re a candidate for is Medicare and a nursing home. They`ve deemed us to be "irrelevant," and not worth the effort. Consequently, they`ll offer us an Internet stream and the promise of a grand HD Radio receiver somewhere down the line and, don`t forget, AM1690, WRLL. Don`t you love the dial position of Chicago`s only remaining oldies station? It`s almost like it`s an afterthought, which I assure you, it is. It`s a daytime station and when winter arrives the station becomes a non-entity after 5PM in the evening or before 7AM in the morning.

Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will come along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners, but it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity has pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven wrong.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

>
> Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will come
> along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners, but
> it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity has
> pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
> wrong.
>

Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels shows and why cars change models.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >
> > Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will
> come
> > along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners,
> but
> > it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity
> has
> > pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
> > wrong.
> >
>
> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.
>
Still, I think oldies is a good move for a small company like Newsweb. They could continue what they are doing and get a zero, or flip to a format that will guarantee you a 2 or 2.5 share.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.

Spoken like a true CEO.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

Thanks David.
> >
> > Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will
> come
> > along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners,
> but
> > it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity
> has
> > pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
> > wrong.
> >
>
> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.
>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

Why not Hurban? It can't be worse than what's happening now over at 9. C'mon David, tell us all the details about how great it will be!

> > >
> > > Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will
> > come
> > > along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners,
>
> > but
> > > it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity
> > has
> > > pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
>
> > > wrong.
> > >
> >
> > Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> > advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
>
> > already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It
> is
> > not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells."
> This
> > is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> > shows and why cars change models.
> >
> Still, I think oldies is a good move for a small company
> like Newsweb. They could continue what they are doing and
> get a zero, or flip to a format that will guarantee you a 2
> or 2.5 share.
>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

So we should all just shut up and take it then....right Dave?

Screw that....radio is a business that serves the public...hell it belongs to the public...

but nothing will be done....White House doesn't care and won't....Big Radio is a great campaign contributor...
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.

And let's just say how successful New Coke was 20 years ago. All that market research that favored ditching the Original Formula? Well, we all know what happened.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> So we should all just shut up and take it then....right
> Dave?
>
> Screw that....radio is a business that serves the
> public...hell it belongs to the public...
>
> but nothing will be done....White House doesn't care and
> won't....Big Radio is a great campaign contributor...
>


Juuuuuust a bit of a reach. Dont ya think???

You know I have seen Bush blamed for a lot of things, but this one takes the cake!!! A station changes format and you are blaming the White House??????

REALITY CHECK TIME!!!!!
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> > advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
>
> > already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It
> is
> > not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells."
> This
> > is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> > shows and why cars change models.
>
> Spoken like a true CEO.
>

Why is it such a difficult concept???

If you folks dont like what happend you argument is with Infinity....No one else.

All the time we hear "Radio Sucks", "This market is cookie cutter", "no one every plays what I want". Then a station changes, "We want it back"...

Dont get me wrong, I think what Infinity has done is a bad move. My choice would have been WCKG.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > So we should all just shut up and take it then....right
> > Dave?
> >
> > Screw that....radio is a business that serves the
> > public...hell it belongs to the public...
> >
> > but nothing will be done....White House doesn't care and
> > won't....Big Radio is a great campaign contributor...
> >
>
>
> Juuuuuust a bit of a reach. Dont ya think???
>
> You know I have seen Bush blamed for a lot of things, but
> this one takes the cake!!! A station changes format and you
> are blaming the White House??????
>
> REALITY CHECK TIME!!!!!

Did I say that....no....

Sorry if I didn't make my point clear....

I was trying to say that radio is the way it is today. That will not change in (at least) the immediate future. Because no one has a vested interest in changing it....and why would they. NAB says radio is better than ever....FCC says nothing is wrong....and the money keeps coming in from Big Radio...so things must be ok.

Radio is controlled by stockholders and not broadcasters....Bush knows this....so has every other polician....including the bastards that signed the laws...including Clinton...and it is being allowed to continue....

Hence WJMK, WCBS, WGLD and the like....(in general terms) popular stations among listeners, ratings winners and big revenue...that are blown up for "format of the month" that has no operating costs....so even if they do drop in revenue and shares....they will make MORE money.

How much is enough money?

That was more my point....sorry for not making it clear
 
And once again, the sales people don't get the blame.

> >
> > Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will
> come
> > along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners,
> but
> > it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity
> has
> > pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
> > wrong.
> >
>
> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.
>

And if that's true, if you have a big audience that "the advertiser shun" the SALES staff should get fired, not the programmers, because sales isn't doing THEIR job in talking up the station.
 
NYC "Jack" Advertiser Boycott In Progress

> The backlash against Infinity for killing Oldies in NYC and
> Chicago is truly unprecedented. Petitions are being passed
> in NYC and New York Radio Message Board webmaster Allan
> Sniffen has now compiled over thirteen pages of messages
> protesting the death of WCBS-FM after 31 years of serving
> the New York market with oldies...

And today, I see that the listener base of the old WCBS-FM is putting together an advertiser boycott. More info on this post on our NYC Radio board.

Memo to the Second City - if you wish to put together a boycott of your own, you have my blessing. Maybe turning the tables on Infinity with a one-two punch to the wallet is what Infinity needs... But, as Mr. Sniffen said himself on one of the titles of his posts, "They Don't Care..." But it's worth a shot.<P ID="signature">______________


New York City Radio and TV</P>
 
Re: And once again, the sales people don't get the blame.

> And if that's true, if you have a big audience that "the
> advertiser shun" the SALES staff should get fired, not the
> programmers, because sales isn't doing THEIR job in talking
> up the station.
>

In larger markets, most sales is agency generated, and most of the big bucks come from a small number of clients... 20% of clients produce 80% of the revenue.

If the agencies have a client dictate not to buy 55+, no salesperson on the planet can change that.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> > advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
>
> > already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It
> is
> > not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells."
> This
> > is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> > shows and why cars change models.
>
> And let's just say how successful New Coke was 20 years ago.
> All that market research that favored ditching the Original
> Formula? Well, we all know what happened.

If you have to go back two decades to find an example to prove your point, you have no point.

In any case, New Coke was a reaction to Pepsi´s encroachment on Coke in the cola category and research that people who bought Pepsi liked it because it was sweeter... so the Coke exectutives ignored research on the whole market and went with something that would compete with Pepsi. And they were wrong.

Oldies is a 55+ format, and maturing every year. It is a difficult sell, and has no future.
>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> So we should all just shut up and take it then....right
> Dave?

I have been upset when TV sohows I like are cancelled. I am sure folks were upset when the soap poeras and drama shows were cancelled on radio when TV came along. Things Change.
>
> Screw that....radio is a business that serves the
> public...hell it belongs to the public...

Actually, in today¿s environment, the govermnment regulates spectrum, but not content.
>
> but nothing will be done....White House doesn't care and
> won't....Big Radio is a great campaign contributor...
>

Why would government care if an oldies station changes format? Except for classical, the FCC has never "protected" formats, and they believe that market demand will satisfy all needs.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Why not Hurban? It can't be worse than what's happening now
> over at 9. C'mon David, tell us all the details about how
> great it will be!

It was probably an option, and still is for other stations. There are a variety of formats that can replace those that have aging demos that have little advertiser appeal.

By the way, blame the advertisers, not radio, for establishing the demos that most products and sevices look to appeal to.
 
Re: And once again, the sales people don't get the blame.

"If the agencies have a client dictate not to buy 55+, no salesperson on the planet can change that.

Bull. You sound just like one of those people who would have toed the line in many regimes.

Lech Walesa! What a fool! Communism will never fall, why is he putting his neck on the line?

Imry Nagy - total loser! Hungary will always be a Russian client state.

Nelson Mandella. Hahahaha. Oh man, like Apartheid will ever end! What a tool!

Point is, never say never. Don't assume things will never change, that "it can't be done", that something is impossible. Talk to Lech Walesa.

I say that as someone who owns radio stations. My worst enemy isn't clients who refuse to buy radio. My biggest problem is getting sales people to take the extra effort to sell some of the tougher sells I have. They want to take the easy way out which is often raping programming (for example, with ludicrous programming incursions like interviews with clients, etc) OR selling the easy sell station. And don't tell me about ad agencies. I worked in one. I know that an enthusiastic AE CAN change impressions and even flight demo's. One of my best pals turned a male-only beer buy into a "and some females too" buy by organizing a "chick night" with male dancers for the beer at a New York night club and inviting the ad agency and reps from Anheisur Busch and showing them "see what you're missing"? The buy was turned into 70/30 M-F and my pal got a VERY nice check from his station. Don't tell me it can't be done. It can. It takes work. Sadly that's what a lot (not all, not by any means) of sales people lack.
 
Re: Low Blow & Uncalled For

> "If the agencies have a client dictate not to buy 55+, no
> salesperson on the planet can change that.
>
> Bull. You sound just like one of those people who would have
> toed the line in many regimes.
>
> Lech Walesa! What a fool! Communism will never fall, why is
> he putting his neck on the line?

Foul. Argumemt over.

I am the one who lost 12 radio stations and a dozen CPs because one of my stations was the "voice of opostion" to a military government. And I was fortunate. My counterpart at an oppostion newspaper was killed.

You have no right to make assumptions such as those you have made.

And, ulinke those in AA who learn their steps, you don't seem to recognize what can be changed and what can not.
>
> Imry Nagy - total loser! Hungary will always be a Russian
> client state.
>
> Nelson Mandella. Hahahaha. Oh man, like Apartheid will ever
> end! What a tool!
>
> Point is, never say never. Don't assume things will never
> change, that "it can't be done", that something is
> impossible. Talk to Lech Walesa.

That is a Quixotic statement. In a more pragmatic world, one has to know what is practical and what is a waste of time where the amount of efofrt is not accompanied by any gain or benefit.
>
> I say that as someone who owns radio stations. My worst
> enemy isn't clients who refuse to buy radio. My biggest
> problem is getting sales people to take the extra effort to
> sell some of the tougher sells I have. They want to take the
> easy way out which is often raping programming (for example,
> with ludicrous programming incursions like interviews with
> clients, etc) OR selling the easy sell station. And don't
> tell me about ad agencies. I worked in one. I know that an
> enthusiastic AE CAN change impressions and even flight
> demo's.

Most radio sellers have no access to AEs... only the media department. the gain on trying to change a client-specified demo dictate are generally not worth the effort.

> One of my best pals turned a male-only beer buy into
> a "and some females too" buy by organizing a "chick night"
> with male dancers for the beer at a New York night club and
> inviting the ad agency and reps from Anheisur Busch and
> showing them "see what you're missing"? The buy was turned
> into 70/30 M-F and my pal got a VERY nice check from his
> station.

That sounds like a lot of effort for minimal, short term gains.

>Don't tell me it can't be done. It can. It takes
> work. Sadly that's what a lot (not all, not by any means) of
> sales people lack.
 
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