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Arrogance and Greed

Re: Low Blow & Uncalled For

"Foul. Argumemt over. I am the one who lost 12 radio stations and a dozen CPs because one of my stations was the "voice of opostion" to a military government. And I was fortunate. My counterpart at an oppostion newspaper was killed. You have no right to make assumptions such as those you have made."

And I've been in arrested in a former totalitarian country for a while. I was also on my way to join the demonstrators at Tianamen square when my visa was revoked in 1989 (long story). That said, my rhetoric was over the line and for that I apologise. I just always have a problem with the "it can't be done, it is the way it is, it will never change, that's the system, don't fight it" argument. I have heard those excuses from people who co-operated with totalitarian regimes. The argument just rubs me really wrong BUT THAT SAID, I shouldn't have personlized and directed my anger at you and for that I sincerely aplogize. Sorry.

"And, ulinke those in AA who learn their steps, you don't seem to recognize what can be changed and what can not."

I'm not in AA but one of my best friends is. I know what you're talking about and referencing. The thing is, you and I disagree as to whether it can be changed. My point is, I think it can. You disagree. Fine. I say you're wrong. Would it be difficult? Oh yes. Impossible? Hell no.

"That is a Quixotic statement. In a more pragmatic world, one has to know what is practical and what is a waste of time where the amount of efofrt is not accompanied by any gain or benefit."

See above. Tough, yes. Impossible, no. Pragmatic? Practical? Yes, if you care about the format and your stations.

"Most radio sellers have no access to AEs... only the media department. the gain on trying to change a client-specified demo dictate are generally not worth the effort."

And I gave you a specific example of how it can be done with effort. You think my pal had access to the Busch rep? Heck no. He worked to get it. Takes effort. But, of course, it's easier just to wait for another email to come in with another order for traffic. I'm not dispagine all AE's by any means. I know many are very hard working. I wish some of them worked for me! LOL! But TOO MANY would prefer all their stations would be a nice Hot AC that they could tell their friends they work for and slam dunk on sell and tells.

"That sounds like a lot of effort for minimal, short term gains."

No, they signed two 13 week flights after that. He bought a car with the cash, he calls it his "bud-mobile" after the beer. Short term gain? Hardly.

The thing is, this leadership effort should be undertaken at the management, not AE level. A poster (not me - credit goes to someone else LOL) on the New York board had a great idea. Buy a rolls royce and drive it around town in Chicago or New York, paint it gold and take media buyers out to luch with it. Call it the rock and "rolls" and say you're showing how oldies is "the golden oldies format for the golden oldies demo". Take them out to a club with a 45 plus crowd on a Friday night and ask, "you think these people don't buy anything". Take out agency reps. That you can do at a station/AE level. I know buys come down via dictat from the client so on a national level, work with other oldies stations (call it "The oldies alliance") to sell the demo to national clients. How many GM's have been to a non-radio seminar or convention? How many have been to the Fast Moving Consumer Goods shin-dig that happens twice a year in Orlando where you can often collar the Marketing VP's of hundreds of companies for a one-on-one? Few. Go there. Get a booth. Sell the demo. Have some "golden foxes" sitting there showing their laptops and mobile phones and saying "I just bought this for 1,000 dollars last week because I heard it on the radio". It can be done, though probably only as a concerted industry effort. But nooooooooooooooooo. It's easier to insert the latest "format in a box" on your frequency and wait for the fax machine to ring.

Again, sorry for being too personal above, I was out of line.
 
Re: Back to the regularly scheduled debate...

> The argument just rubs me really wrong BUT THAT
> SAID, I shouldn't have personlized and directed my anger at
> you and for that I sincerely aplogize. Sorry.

I have to express my considerable admiration for the sincere apology. Such does not come often on these boards, and is taken by me with great humilty. Thanks.

I come from a unique background. I worked my way from owner to manager to programmer by moving to situations where my income could stay the same but my responsibilities became more and more over programming. In the process, I've been responsible for sales at clusters and groups for about 30 years of my career.

Unfortunately for oldies, standards and, soon, classic rock, there is a growing awareness among marketers that the income levels of the retirement generation are much exaggerated by average figures rather than median figures. While we may soon see 55-64 becoming a bigger sales demo, we will not see 65+ in such growth as the median income of this group is so low and the ad exposure needed to change preferences is so, so high.

It would, just in the sense of opening up more fomrat opportunities and revenue sources, make sense to work on the doable, which is to get 55-64 on more buys.

I, too, have plenty of stories of getting non-users in radio or getting through to AE's and decision makers. But I often wonder about the return on investment of such efforts.
 
Thanks for the reply

"I have to express my considerable admiration for the sincere apology. Such does not come often on these boards, and is taken by me with great humilty. Thanks."

No problem as I was out of line.

"I come from a unique background. I worked my way from owner to manager to programmer by moving to situations where my income could stay the same but my responsibilities became more and more over programming. In the process, I've been responsible for sales at clusters and groups for about 30 years of my career."

I have never doubtede your expertise and always click on any post of yours I see on these board because I know might learn something.

"Unfortunately for oldies, standards and, soon, classic rock, there is a growing awareness among marketers that the income levels of the retirement generation are much exaggerated by average figures rather than median figures. While we may soon see 55-64 becoming a bigger sales demo, we will not see 65+ in such growth as the median income of this group is so low and the ad exposure needed to change preferences is so, so high."

I agree with you about 65 plus, but CBS-FM's median age was 54 as far as I know, they still had a decade to go. I listen to many radio stations, and I hear ads on Hot AC's and Country stations and all kinds of formats and shrug my shoulders because there is no reason that the sponsor shouldn't be on an Oldies station. Sure, a CHR zit-cream ad shouldn't be on JMK. Nor should a hip-hop nightclub. Fine, I am not arguing that. But a ton of fast-moving-consume-goods are only on the "hip" stations for no good reason. Not that they shouldn't be there, just that there is no reason that they should ONLY target the youth crowd. Now, I understand what you are saying about incomes, but we are talking about NY and Chicago here where I guess that median income/household liquidity is much greater than 10k. For the countryisde, yes, I'm sure it's that low (taking home equity out of it as you did).

"It would, just in the sense of opening up more fomrat opportunities and revenue sources, make sense to work on the doable, which is to get 55-64 on more buys."

Oh I agree and that what I was trying to say.

"I, too, have plenty of stories of getting non-users in radio or getting through to AE's and decision makers. But I often wonder about the return on investment of such efforts."

Understood. It just frustrates me when I see some (repeat SOME) AE's doing their nails in the office (not literally of course - just speaking poetically) while my poor programming guys run around putting together some damned good radio and then the AE's whine (insert nasal voice) "welllll we can seeeellll thaaaat old stufff". BS. Get off your butt and work the phones. I EMPHASIZE that I am only talking about SOME AE's, not all......but too many are like that....BUT NOT ALL. I have to wonder if owners were still limited to one or two stations per market if the oldies station owners wouldn't have expended more effort as opposed to trying to make stations fit cluster sensibilities.

Thanks again.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

Sure it is if you have older people pitching it. Change the ELEMENTS and you change the perceptions of the younger people. Oldies radio has always been pitched by adults in that demographic. Making a hot, hip version of oldies would be interesting. It's no riskier than flipping Jack in #1 and #2, IF you really were COMMITTED to the format. But that would take too much WORK. Jack's the easy fix for a problem that really exists in their minds.

>
> Oldies is a 55+ format, and maturing every year. It is a
> difficult sell, and has no future.
> >
>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >
> > Hopefully, some fully-signalled downtown stick will
> come
> > along to serve all the disenfranchised oldies listeners,
> but
> > it has yet to occur in the other markets where Infinity
> has
> > pulled the plug on oldies. It would be nice to be proven
> > wrong.
> >
>
> Radio is a business. Oldies appeals to a target that most
> advertisers shoun, especially those stations that have not
> already moved out of the early 60's and into the 70's. It is
> not greedy to abandon something that no longer "sells." This
> is why supermarkets discontinue products, why TV cancels
> shows and why cars change models.
>
Kinda like when Jeep discontinued the Cherokee--because in its last year of production, 2001, it had a record setting sales year. Some decisions are just plain--how do you say it kindly--stupid.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >
> Kinda like when Jeep discontinued the Cherokee--because in
> its last year of production, 2001, it had a record setting
> sales year. Some decisions are just plain--how do you say
> it kindly--stupid.

They introduced a new model, called the Grand Cherokee. Big deal. It's still a Cherokee.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > Why not Hurban? It can't be worse than what's happening
> now
> > over at 9. C'mon David, tell us all the details about how
> > great it will be!
>
> It was probably an option, and still is for other stations.
> There are a variety of formats that can replace those that
> have aging demos that have little advertiser appeal.
>
> By the way, blame the advertisers, not radio, for
> establishing the demos that most products and sevices look
> to appeal to.
>
As time goes on, the advertisers are going to have a harder time generating revenue when those over 50 really start outnumbering those under 50. Generation X is the smallest generation and Generation Y is larger than X, but not enough to compensate for the large baby boomer generation, where most of the money will be at. I don't know if I made myself clear or made someone confused.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > >
> > Kinda like when Jeep discontinued the Cherokee--because in
>
> > its last year of production, 2001, it had a record setting
>
> > sales year. Some decisions are just plain--how do you say
>
> > it kindly--stupid.
>
> They introduced a new model, called the Grand Cherokee. Big
> deal. It's still a Cherokee.
>
Whoops, you're WRONG!!!!!! The GC was introduced back in 1992 as a 1993 model. The Cherokee was discontinued in favor of the Liberty in 2001--9 years later. Gosh, I hope you weren't selling any Jeep advertising to your clients, David:)

BTW, among Cherokee loyalist, there is a world of difference between the GC and the Cherokee.

Among Jeep enthusiasts, the Cherokee is an icon, much like WJMK and the old WLS and WCFL is to their faithful!
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Sure it is if you have older people pitching it.

If advertisers in major markets, most of whom have local, regional or national agencies, have a dictate on demos that excludes 55+, it matters little what the age, skillset or drive of the sellers is.

In many cases, both agency accounts and co-op funds for local retailers or franchisees requre meeting demographic targets the client established for the product at the point it was created.

> Change the
> ELEMENTS and you change the perceptions of the younger
> people. Oldies radio has always been pitched by adults in
> that demographic.

I have never found this to be true. Stations tend to have sellers of different ages and backgrounds. In any case, having 40-something sellers shoud not affect the sales effort of an oldies station as the real issue is the ability of oldies stations to provide listeners in the target demos... something not influenced by the age of the sellers.

> Making a hot, hip version of oldies would
> be interesting.

A person who was a teen in 1963 is now 60 or over. You can not build any library based format with songs that were not part of a person's life experience... and people who experienced 60's oldies are mostly out of the prime buying demos. The presentation has no effect on the fact that people who "know" the songs because they lived them are out of the sales demos.

> It's no riskier than flipping Jack in #1 and
> #2, IF you really were COMMITTED to the format. But that
> would take too much WORK. Jack's the easy fix for a problem
> that really exists in their minds.

Jack appeals to people in the 35-54 demo. That is prime sales territory, and, well researched and well implemented, represents very little risk. Whether the research was well done and well implemented is something neither you nor I will ever know. We simply have to await the Arbitron verdict.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >
> As time goes on, the advertisers are going to have a harder
> time generating revenue when those over 50 really start
> outnumbering those under 50. Generation X is the smallest
> generation and Generation Y is larger than X, but not enough
> to compensate for the large baby boomer generation, where
> most of the money will be at. I don't know if I made myself
> clear or made someone confused.
>

Unfortunately, the myth of a huge retired and affluent American population is much exaggerated. The cause is the press' infatuation with "average" inclome instead of median income levels.

The fact is, the median American over 60 has less than $100 thousand in savings (which produces less than $4 thousand at best in after tax income) and will count on Social Security for 75% to 80% of income after retirement.

When average rather than median techniques are used, the small percentage of the very rich make the entire universe under study look far more affluent. When one uses a true median, it is much easier to see that there is no such preponderence of wealth and the affluence ob boomers is a myth or exaggeration of monumental proportions.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >
> Whoops, you're WRONG!!!!!! The GC was introduced back in
> 1992 as a 1993 model. The Cherokee was discontinued in
> favor of the Liberty in 2001--9 years later. Gosh, I hope
> you weren't selling any Jeep advertising to your clients,
> David:)

As a multi-model Jeep owner, my impression is that the Grand Cherokee is the extension of the Cherokee line, while the Liberty is an extension of the traditional Jeep line. Whatever the case, what you are observing is an example of traditional brand life cycles (the "leaning" S-curve of introduction/innovation, growth, maturation and decline) where most manufacturers and marketers recognize the end of maturation and the beginning of decline and do severe product modifications at that time. Or, they kill the product, such as the case with Oldsmobile, DeSoto, and other tired marks that are in decline.
>
> BTW, among Cherokee loyalist, there is a world of difference
> between the GC and the Cherokee.

As there is between older "standard" Jeeps and the Wrangler and such.
>
> Among Jeep enthusiasts, the Cherokee is an icon, much like
> WJMK and the old WLS and WCFL is to their faithful!

That is a streach.
>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > >
> > Whoops, you're WRONG!!!!!! The GC was introduced back in
> > 1992 as a 1993 model. The Cherokee was discontinued in
> > favor of the Liberty in 2001--9 years later. Gosh, I hope
>
> > you weren't selling any Jeep advertising to your clients,
> > David:)
>
> As a multi-model Jeep owner, my impression is that the Grand
> Cherokee is the extension of the Cherokee line, while the
> Liberty is an extension of the traditional Jeep line.
> Whatever the case, what you are observing is an example of
> traditional brand life cycles (the "leaning" S-curve of
> introduction/innovation, growth, maturation and decline)
> where most manufacturers and marketers recognize the end of
> maturation and the beginning of decline and do severe
> product modifications at that time. Or, they kill the
> product, such as the case with Oldsmobile, DeSoto, and other
> tired marks that are in decline.
> >

For the record: I own two Jeeps: a GC and Cherokee--and Iam not an employee of Daimler/Chrysler, I will add the following:

. . . maybe Infinity will, at some point in time, follow Jeep's lead. Jeep has just introduced the new 2006 Commander, which is has major styling cues from the Cherokee (see jeep.com). It has been updated and modified to change with the times. Jeep--due to consumer outcry--now recognizes the importance of the Cherokee to their branding. The question is, in the future, will Infitity recognize the importance to CBS-FM and WJMK to its corporate branding?

BTW, the GC was orginally supposed to replace the Cherokee, but public outcry keep the Cherokee in production alongside the GC for another 9 years.

> > BTW, among Cherokee loyalist, there is a world of
> difference
> > between the GC and the Cherokee.
>
> As there is between older "standard" Jeeps and the Wrangler
> and such.
> >
> > Among Jeep enthusiasts, the Cherokee is an icon, much like
>
> > WJMK and the old WLS and WCFL is to their faithful!
>
> That is a streach.
> >
Again, David, I say, you do not understand Chicago radio listeners, who grew up listening to 'LS or 'CFL. Elvis has left the building.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > >
>
> For the record: I own two Jeeps: a GC and Cherokee--and Iam
> not an employee of Daimler/Chrysler, I will add the
> following:
>
> . . . maybe Infinity will, at some point in time, follow
> Jeep's lead. Jeep has just introduced the new 2006
> Commander, which is has major styling cues from the Cherokee
> (see jeep.com). It has been updated and modified to change
> with the times. Jeep--due to consumer outcry--now
> recognizes the importance of the Cherokee to their branding.
> The question is, in the future, will Infitity recognize the
> importance to CBS-FM and WJMK to its corporate branding?

Unlike a car company and car marketing, where we look at both the parent and the model, radio listeners care not a whit who owns a station... whether it has similar stations in other markets or what the format is called.

The Infinity brand is meaningless to listeners. It is also meaningless to buyers unless the individual stations have the right CPP against the target demo.
>
> > >
> Again, David, I say, you do not understand Chicago radio
> listeners, who grew up listening to 'LS or 'CFL. Elvis has
> left the building.
>

I have lived all my career hearing, "how can someone who is not from here program to the audience. This city is different." I have heard it in a half-dozen Mexican markets, in Ecuador, in Puerto Rico, in NY, in LA, in Birmingham, in Phoenix, in 12 other Latin American countries and even in Monaco and Pakistan.

The real truth is so simple. You ask listeners what they want, and give it to them. In that sense, all markets are totally alike. No matter how much you try to put one over on us, Chicago is not unique (and my family, going back to the 1820's, is from a rural area South of Chicago in the WLS coverage area).
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Did I say that....no....
>
> Sorry if I didn't make my point clear....
>
> I was trying to say that radio is the way it is today. That
> will not change in (at least) the immediate future. Because
> no one has a vested interest in changing it....and why would
> they. NAB says radio is better than ever....FCC says
> nothing is wrong....and the money keeps coming in from Big
> Radio...so things must be ok.
>
> Radio is controlled by stockholders and not
> broadcasters....Bush knows this....so has every other
> polician....including the bastards that signed the
> laws...including Clinton...and it is being allowed to
> continue....
>
> Hence WJMK, WCBS, WGLD and the like....(in general terms)
> popular stations among listeners, ratings winners and big
> revenue...that are blown up for "format of the month" that
> has no operating costs....so even if they do drop in revenue
> and shares....they will make MORE money.
>
> How much is enough money?
>
> That was more my point....sorry for not making it clear
>
Your entire 'big bad corporate radio' argument goes out the window when you include WGLD. That's Susquehanna, Indy..a privately held company that made the decision to go to JACK because of the reasons David has outlined. Oldies is a 50+ play in a 25-54 world. Blame Madison Ave. for not realizing the shift and making 35-64 a real demo.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> > > >
> >
> > For the record: I own two Jeeps: a GC and Cherokee--and
> Iam
> > not an employee of Daimler/Chrysler, I will add the
> > following:
> >
> > . . . maybe Infinity will, at some point in time, follow
> > Jeep's lead. Jeep has just introduced the new 2006
> > Commander, which is has major styling cues from the
> Cherokee
> > (see jeep.com). It has been updated and modified to
> change
> > with the times. Jeep--due to consumer outcry--now
> > recognizes the importance of the Cherokee to their
> branding.
> > The question is, in the future, will Infitity recognize
> the
> > importance to CBS-FM and WJMK to its corporate branding?
>
> Unlike a car company and car marketing, where we look at
> both the parent and the model, radio listeners care not a
> whit who owns a station... whether it has similar stations
> in other markets or what the format is called.
>
> The Infinity brand is meaningless to listeners. It is also
> meaningless to buyers unless the individual stations have
> the right CPP against the target demo.
> >
> > > >
> > Again, David, I say, you do not understand Chicago radio
> > listeners, who grew up listening to 'LS or 'CFL. Elvis
> has
> > left the building.
> >
>
> I have lived all my career hearing, "how can someone who is
> not from here program to the audience. This city is
> different." I have heard it in a half-dozen Mexican markets,
> in Ecuador, in Puerto Rico, in NY, in LA, in Birmingham, in
> Phoenix, in 12 other Latin American countries and even in
> Monaco and Pakistan.
>
> The real truth is so simple. You ask listeners what they
> want, and give it to them. In that sense, all markets are
> totally alike. No matter how much you try to put one over on
> us, Chicago is not unique (and my family, going back to the
> 1820's, is from a rural area South of Chicago in the WLS
> coverage area).

David, you are exceedingly bright and well-spoken, however,
your "soul" is that of a "suit." You propagate reams of
corporate-speak and try to pass that off as common knowledge.
Now more than ever, media conglomerates are out of touch
with their listeners and the demise of WJMK is just the latest
example.

Given the need to premiere "JACK" by this weekend, Infinity
could have chosen WCKG and the outcry would have been a
whimper. The same situation applies in NYC, where WNEW
was in the same dire straits as WCKG, but, no, those in power
chose the 31-year-old heritage station, WCBS. Infinity is a
slave to research, in every regard from the choice of music to
which station to kill. It`s that reliance on research rather than
working from your gut that will be the ultimate downfall of this
industry. Get back to me in about five years and we`ll compare
notes?
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

>
> David, you are exceedingly bright and well-spoken,
> however,
> your "soul" is that of a "suit." You propagate reams of
> corporate-speak and try to pass that off as common
> knowledge.
> Now more than ever, media conglomerates are out of touch
>
> with their listeners and the demise of WJMK is just the
> latest
> example.

The funny thing is that there is a prevalence of this "out of touch with the listeners" concept in thse boards. And a condemnation of research seems to go hand in hand.

Research is nothing but another word for "talking with the listners" and, as such, is the ultimate contact for staying in contact with listeners on a constant, impartial basis.
>
> Given the need to premiere "JACK" by this weekend,
> Infinity
> could have chosen WCKG and the outcry would have been a
> whimper. The same situation applies in NYC, where WNEW
> was in the same dire straits as WCKG, but, no, those in
> power
> chose the 31-year-old heritage station, WCBS.


Maybe they have another plan for WCKG when Stern leaves. Neither of us knows. All big radio companies have a few dogs in the kennel... no one can have 100% of thier stations going up at once.

On the other hand, WCBS, in 2005 dollars, is off in billing over 30% vs. 1997, and the audience erosion is getting more severe in the sales demos due to the ageing of the listener base.

I don't agree that there are heritage stations. There are old ones and new ones, and the old ones that are successful keep on reinvening themselves to stay in the prime sales demos. Unfortunately, oldies, by definition, can not reinvent itself unless it moves to new generations, which is what, in a way, Jack is.

> Infinity is
> a
> slave to research, in every regard from the choice of
> music to
> which station to kill.


Research is only a tool. Humans read the data and make the decisions. However, research is pure contact with listener opinion. While ther eis some bad research, what is more common is bad understanding and implementation.

> It`s that reliance on research
> rather than
> working from your gut that will be the ultimate downfall
> of this
> industry.

Radio has used research going back 6 decades at least. A successful statin combines the ability to entertain with the right format and music... one is an art, the other is science... to make a great station.

> Get back to me in about five years and we`ll
> compare
> notes?

I have been hearing this same stuff for decades. Your argument is sinularly unimpressive. that Infinity may not be the sharpest radio company is a possibility... but that talking to the listeners is inferior to gut feel is just simply wrong. Not just wrong... arrogant.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

>> On the other hand, WCBS, in 2005 dollars, is off in billing over 30% vs. 1997, and the audience erosion is getting more severe in the sales demos due to the ageing of the listener base. >>

Granted.

But, does the research show that the stations might have been programmed wrong? Bad decisons?

Specifically didn't the research pinpoint tha the format should have been mostly out of the 60s and centered in the 70s by now?

If the listener base is ageing, then it is time to evolve. Instead of evolving you are seeing a mass execution.<P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> >> On the other hand, WCBS, in 2005 dollars, is off in
> billing over 30% vs. 1997, and the audience erosion is
> getting more severe in the sales demos due to the ageing of
> the listener base. >>
>
> Granted.
>
> But, does the research show that the stations might have
> been programmed wrong? Bad decisons?
>
> Specifically didn't the research pinpoint tha the format
> should have been mostly out of the 60s and centered in the
> 70s by now?
>
> If the listener base is ageing, then it is time to evolve.
> Instead of evolving you are seeing a mass execution.
>

Research, like crystal balls and Miss Cleo, has a hard time predicting the future. Research can only tell you what people do now, what they want now, and what they do not want now. Present a hypothetical situation, and most listeners can not visualize it well enough to give an accurate read.

This is where the art of programming enters in. There are plenty of questions. Did WCBS FM spend too much time with the do-wop years, and not move fast enough into the 70's? In Chicago, were they too dependent on old line personalities that were irrelevant to anyone under 50? We could write a dozen more questions... as we could about nearly every format change.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

> Unfortunately, the myth of a huge retired and affluent
> American population is much exaggerated. The cause is the
> press' infatuation with "average" inclome instead of median
> income levels.
>
> The fact is, the median American over 60 has less than $100
> thousand in savings (which produces less than $4 thousand at
> best in after tax income) and will count on Social Security
> for 75% to 80% of income after retirement.
>
> When average rather than median techniques are used, the
> small percentage of the very rich make the entire universe
> under study look far more affluent. When one uses a true
> median, it is much easier to see that there is no such
> preponderence of wealth and the affluence ob boomers is a
> myth or exaggeration of monumental proportions.

The problem with your view is that low income "retiree" was also a low income young person. He was the guy who eaked out a marginal income but would buy a six pack and pizza on the way home from the factory.

Believe it or not, there are many retirees whose networth is well over $2,000,000 (excluding primary residence) and can purchase all of the creature comforts that advertisers want to dish out. Social Security for many account for about 20% of after tax income. These same folks also continue to work in some capacity. There is something to be said about these old folks being abandoned by the media. It wasn't too many years ago where one could find stations that catered to this market segment. As I have grown older, I have become a savier buyer and not easily duped by some come on ad. Maybe that is why they are less sought. They're smarter and less likely to be sold a lump.

Having worked for Arbitron for several years, I'm quite familiar with how demos dominate advertiser decision making and how stations are a slave to the numbers. Watch for the changes that will occur at WGN as they seek to gain a younger demo. I'll bet the first to go will be Kathy and Judy who must drive the age of the stations listeners into the stratosphere.
 
Re: Reality =/= Greed

>
> Believe it or not, there are many retirees whose networth is
> well over $2,000,000 (excluding primary residence) and can
> purchase all of the creature comforts that advertisers want
> to dish out. Social Security for many account for about 20%
> of after tax income. These same folks also continue to work
> in some capacity. There is something to be said about these
> old folks being abandoned by the media. It wasn't too many
> years ago where one could find stations that catered to this
> market segment. As I have grown older, I have become a
> savier buyer and not easily duped by some come on ad. Maybe
> that is why they are less sought. They're smarter and less
> likely to be sold a lump.
>

The idea that there are many retirement age (pre-retirement or post) persons with net worths in the millions is tempered by the fact that "average" worth takes the multimillionaires into account disproportionally. A better measure is mean savings, which, per a Friday WSJ article is $10 thousand dollars among pre-retirement 50's somethings. The majority of retirees use Social Security or pension payments as the bulk of thier income.

Considering that it takes more or less $2 million in savings to earn, pre-tax, $60 thousand a year, we are talking about much lowered retirement expectations and much less CSI per retired household.
 
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