• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

ATLANTA THRASHERS MOVING TO WINNIPEG

Atlanta will be a “major league” city in a couple of generations. With exception of the “retirement cities” in sunshine states (FL. TX. AZ. etc.), would be hard to find a US city that has grown with the percentage of new residents from other states. These folks “grew up” rooting for other teams. Do you remember the Packer fans in the Dome during this year’s play off game? People want follow and root for winners. If you win enough they could become “loyal”. With the exception of Ted Turner having The Braves on satellite, I seriously doubt that any of the other Atlanta Pro teams were a success. The Falcons have just recently had back to back winning seasons. How many championships has Dallas won? Both teams are about the same age? The Braves regularly draw fans, (winning has not hurt) now if one of the other of the pro teams in Atlanta could win a few championships, or at least be a regular contender; you could have the start of “multigenerational” Atlanta fans. The Falcons IMHO are on the way.
The only way hockey will make it in Atlanta is for the team to be owned by a broadcaster or ownership that knows how to win or at least regularly contend for the Stanley Cup. Being the stepchild of the Hawks will not cut it.
 
it should be mentioned, too, that the sale is still subject to the approval of the NHL....I think it has to do with proving that they can sell 13k season tickets by a specified date. Though, I'm not sure about all of the stipulations...nor am I thinking that if they sale wasn't approved, that would be the end of it. Who knows at this point.

Hockey may not do as well down here as it does in Chicago or Boston...but it's done pretty down here in the past so when I hear people try to claim hockey has no place/no following in Atlanta or the state as a whole, I have to call BS on that. The Knights had a good following...and if I remember correctly, they went away not because the lack of interest, but because of the demoing of their home ice. I just think that it may be that NHL at a whole has no chance here right now. So, maybe Atlanta is better suited for a minor league hockey team?

GA already has three minor league teams which I think is a good start. The Gladiators attendance numbers have always been better than the previous year's with exception of the 09-10 season (when we felt the brunt of the economy). Columbus has had a team since 1996 with still a strong fopllowing. There are several farm leagues that could expand into Atlanta. So, again, maybe that's where the sport needs to go, at least for Atlanta. Build a grass roots base with a minor league team....participate in building rec league teams. Take a look at what has happened with Hockey in Texas..five of the 20 CHL teams currently reside in Texas. Seems to me that if an owner is interested in bringing Hockey to Atlanta, they should pay attention to what they've been doing in Texas. Evidently they're doing it right.
 
agentUrge said:
I think it has to do with proving that they can sell 13k season tickets by a specified date.
Click to expand...

13K season tix? Wow! That is almost the capacity of their building. That is asking a lot of the hockey fans of Winnipeg in this economy but then again, there isn't much else going on there.
 
Unfortunately, the Thrashers were doomed from day one. Something many people don't know is that in the 90s, the NHL desperately wanted a franchise in Atlanta largely because it was desperately looking for a national TV contract. The plan was to award the Thrashers to Ted Turner and broadcast Thrasher's games nationally via Turner's networks. That insight came from a friend of mine who was working with Turner Sports at the time.

Unfortunately, it didn't quite pan out that way. Soon after the Thrasher's were announced, Time Warner merged with Turner Broadcasting and Time Warner basically wanted nothing to do with the Thrashers or the NHL and they certainly didn't have any interest in running an NHL team. They didn't want to invest anything in the team and their sole goal was to sell the team. It took a few years, but they finally found a buyer in Atlanta Spirit in late 2003.

Unfortunately, the group didn't have much of a clue as to how to manage a team and then had it's own internal struggles with the lawsuit with Steve Belkin from 2005 until 2009.

By that time the damage was really done. After almost 10 years of basically having a team that was in eternal limbo, the fans in Atlanta just never really bonded with the team due to the years of lack of commitment from the ownership. There really wasn't much to like.

I don't think it was the NHL that Atlanta didn't support, it was the Thrashers and the ownership.

I think back to the days of the Atlanta Knights, the Knights averaged about 8,500 fans in 1994. And the Knights put on a good show in the old Omni. Fans were totally into the game. It wasn't just a game, it was entertaining and affordable. It's not just about winning, as most people claim, it's about making it fun. That, in my opinion was where the Thrashers failed. Thrashers games were boring and fans weren't willing to pay $75 to watch what the ownership put on the ice.

It's just like the Falcons. Under the Smith family, the Falcon had no support. As soon at Arthur Blank bought the team, the franchise turned around. And it wasn't just about winning. It was about the marketing and PR and getting the fans to buy into the team. Support and ticket sales increased dramatically despite a losing record.

The point being that I still believe Atlanta would support a decent NHL franchise. But no city is going to support a team that is run like the Thrashers.
 
So, in other words, Atlanta is a major league city; the Thrashers ownership is not.
Good luck, Winnipeg.



Now... about the NFL franchise in LA.....
:eek:
 
Agreed. Atlanta has had two unfortunate hockey situations, neither of which was the fans' fault. Unfortunately, the rest of the country sees us losing two NHL teams and assumes Atlanta can't support one.
 
The problem with football in ATL (and pro sports in general), along with many other Deep South cities, is the competition from college football (if you're in Tobacco Road, replace "football" with "basketball"). That, plus poor ownership/management for many years (remember the old joke about "The Falcons have five problems, and they're all named 'Smith'"), kept the Falcons from developing like, say, Dallas did. With Georgia Tech spreading the local football market thin (Tech thought they could avoid their gate being decimated by a future pro team by leaving the SEC to schedule a national schedule, and we saw how that turned out), and competition from UGA (with increased numbers of baby boomers going to college who in prior generations wouldn't have), really made for a marketing and management nightmare.

The Knights only left for Quebec City because the Thrashers were coming in. The Gladiators have some of the best attendance in the ECHL (and a radio deal with WDUN), and just re-upped for 3 more years in the Gwinnett Center. The Glads' onetime ECHL rival, the Charlotte Checkers, moved up to the "AAA" AHL. I could see the Glads doing that, too.

ATL can support at the very least a "AAA" hockey team. The question is, will it be the Glads or something else?
 
@kal30005: interesting view...some things I didn't think of.

jabba17 said:
ATL can support at the very least a "AAA" hockey team. The question is, will it be the Glads or something else?
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on what all is involved in moving a team from once league to another. It seems to happen often with the minors. Either way, it would be exciting to see a AAA franchise move into the now defunct "blueland". I'm sure Charlotte could use a closer team for some hockey rivalry.
 
Mr. Mike said:
landtuna said:
whitfm said:
One statistic to confirm what I'm saying about lack of overall southern interest in hockey:

According to ESPN, five of the six NHL teams located in the southeastern United States (Atlanta, Dallas, Florida, Nashville, Carolina) finished between 20th and 28th of 30 teams in average attendance numbers this season (Atlanta was #28). The highest-ranked southern team on the list was Tampa Bay at #18.

Link goodness: http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance
Click to expand...

I can't speak for Atlanta or Dallas but in Phoenix we have a sizable hockey fan base as evidenced by the long tenure of the old RoadRunners but when the NHL came to town they made several stupid decisions.

1. Located the building on the West (read 'poor') side of town where the major Hispanic population lives - not a lot of hockey fans living close by. They had an option to locate the building at the eastside crossroads convenient to both public transportation and two intersecting freeways but noooooo. It was decided to place yet another generic shopping mall at that site and put the hockey building out in the pasture lands.
2. Scheduled the majority of their games on weekday evenings where it is almost impossible for fans to get off work then get a bite to eat then get to the stadium in time for face-off.
3. Average drive time to the stadium from anywhere east of central Phoenix is in excess of 40 minutes and possibly a lot more depending on how far out one is. In short, a terrible commute with no public transportation available.
4. Within the first two years virtually disassembled the relocated team and sold off all the stars making the team non-competitive. Over time this has been reversed but the financial troubles left over from those days almost guarantee that the salary cap will always be a huge burden for this team.
5. Hired a former star as coach then manager (Gretzky) who (a) didn't live anywhere near Phoenix, (b) did virtually no marketing for the team (c) couldn't coach.

Fans here will support sports teams but only if they feel they are getting their monies worth. They haven't. With everything else going wrong the team has to at least win and they haven't.

This is a textbook case of mismanagement by virtually everyone involved.
Click to expand...

Getting to the Glendale arena, it was originally supposed to be built in Scottsdale. IIRC, the main reason the arena in Scottsdale fell through might be attributed to the anti-publicly-funded-stadium crowd angered over a vote that didn't go their way and the election of two city councilmen who were raising questions over whether the owners at the time really had enough money in the first place to get it done.
Click to expand...

It was the old Los Arcos Mall site. That might have had something to do with it too.
 
Raymie said:
Getting to the Glendale arena, it was originally supposed to be built in Scottsdale. IIRC, the main reason the arena in Scottsdale fell through might be attributed to the anti-publicly-funded-stadium crowd angered over a vote that didn't go their way and the election of two city councilmen who were raising questions over whether the owners at the time really had enough money in the first place to get it done.

It was the old Los Arcos Mall site. That might have had something to do with it too.
Click to expand...

One of the first proposals was the site of Tempe Marketplace (intersection of the 101 and 202 - or just north of McClintock and University). That would have been ideal both from a market location and rapid transit point of view (light rail and buses are close).

Los Arcos would have been less ideal but still much better than the west side.
 
jabba17 said:
The Knights only left for Quebec City because the Thrashers were coming in. The Gladiators have some of the best attendance in the ECHL (and a radio deal with WDUN), and just re-upped for 3 more years in the Gwinnett Center. The Glads' onetime ECHL rival, the Charlotte Checkers, moved up to the "AAA" AHL. I could see the Glads doing that, too.

ATL can support at the very least a "AAA" hockey team. The question is, will it be the Glads or something else?
Click to expand...

The 8,400 average attendance the Knights had was second highest in the entire league. You know the AHL is going to want a team in Atlanta ASAP.

But there's already a push to bring back the Atlanta Knights and the AHL might want to put a team in Phillips Arena. The question becomes can or will the Gladiators move up to AAA and would they be willing to move to Atlanta, or will there be 2 minor league teams in the area. A new AAA team in Atlanta might ultimately push the Gladiators out of town.
 
Since Dallas has been mentioned and since Dallas has only about 900,000 more in population, there are a few things to address here. Tom Hicks, the owner of the Dallas Stars, is not the greatest owner either but, the Dallas Stars did one thing that helped insure success that Atlanta didn't do. As stated in earlier posts, the Dallas Stars built 8 Starplexes. 6 of them have two full size ice rinks. The other 2 have 3 full size ice rinks. The Stars, in addition bought an existing facility in Plano that has 2 full size ice rinks. The Stars, by themselves, are responsible for 20 full size ice rinks and there are about another 10 that they don't own. The Stars moved here in 93-94. There is a whole generation of Texans in Dallas who grew up with the NHL and an interest to play hockey and plenty of ice rinks to do it. Both Dallas and Atlanta have plenty of transplanted Northerners and Canadians. Amateur ice hockey thrives in Dallas to the tune of 7000 amateur games per year and a number of high school hockey teams and a strong junior hockey program. If either the ownership of the Atlanta Flames or Thrashers had put the same investment in building ice rinks, Atlanta amateur hockey would also be thriving which would translate to general over all hockey interest.

The Thrashers tried to find a local buyer but, nobody stepped up. If a local buyer had bought the Thrashers and made the same financial commitment to build the ice rinks that Dallas did and build a strong amateur ice hockey program, Atlanta would have been a very strong NHL market.
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
Since Dallas has been mentioned and since Dallas has only about 900,000 more in population, there are a few things to address here.  Tom Hicks, the owner of the Dallas Stars, is not the greatest owner either but, the Dallas Stars did one thing that helped insure success that Atlanta didn't do.  As stated in earlier posts, the Dallas Stars built 8 Starplexes.  6 of them have two full size ice rinks.  The other 2 have 3 full size ice rinks.  The Stars, in addition bought an existing facility in Plano that has 2 full size ice rinks.  The Stars, by themselves, are responsible for 20 full size ice rinks and there are about another 10 that they don't own.  The Stars moved here in 93-94.  There is a whole generation of Texans in Dallas who grew up with the NHL and an interest to play hockey and plenty of ice rinks to do it.  Both Dallas and Atlanta have plenty of transplanted Northerners and Canadians.  Amateur ice hockey thrives in Dallas to the tune of 7000 amateur games per year and a number of high school hockey teams and a strong junior hockey program.  If either the ownership of the Atlanta Flames or Thrashers had put the same investment in building ice rinks, Atlanta amateur hockey would also be thriving which would translate to general over all hockey interest.

The Thrashers tried to find a local buyer but, nobody stepped up.  If a local buyer had bought the Thrashers and made the same financial commitment to build the ice rinks that Dallas did and build a strong amateur ice hockey program, Atlanta would have been a very strong NHL market.
Click to expand...

There are a couple ice rinks here called Polar Ice. For a while, I recall them being called the Desert Schools Coyotes Centers (with a big Coyotes logo on the front).

landtuna said:
Raymie said:
Mr. Mike said:
Getting to the Glendale arena, it was originally supposed to be built in Scottsdale. IIRC, the main reason the arena in Scottsdale fell through might be attributed to the anti-publicly-funded-stadium crowd angered over a vote that didn't go their way and the election of two city councilmen who were raising questions over whether the owners at the time really had enough money in the first place to get it done.
Click to expand...

It was the old Los Arcos Mall site. That might have had something to do with it too.
Click to expand...

One of the first proposals was the site of Tempe Marketplace (intersection of the 101 and 202 - or just north of McClintock and University).  That would have been ideal both from a market location and rapid transit point of view (light rail and buses are close).

Los Arcos would have been less ideal but still much better than the west side.
Click to expand...

If I were ASU I'd be concerned that that proposed arena would have been too close. It probably would have caused competition for Mill Avenue, but it would have been a huge growth cash cow for Tempe.
 
RADIO TRUTH said:
The Thrashers tried to find a local buyer but, nobody stepped up. If a local buyer had bought the Thrashers and made the same financial commitment to build the ice rinks that Dallas did and build a strong amateur ice hockey program, Atlanta would have been a very strong NHL market.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly true. There were groups that were interested in keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. From what I could tell, it appeared the problem was that the Atlanta Spirit wasn't offering to sell the team to anybody who was going to keep the team in Atlanta.

They were only looking for investors to dump money into the team while they continued to mismanage the team in Atlanta. And the pitch they were using, even publicly, is that there was no way this team was ever going to be profitable. So it's not hard to see why there were no serious investors stepping up.
 
Does Spirit still own the Hawks? If so then they had to get the Thrashers out of town. I know it is a different sport but I went to both. Why $hare any revenue from the "all" sports fans.
 
secondchoice said:
Does Spirit still own the Hawks? If so then they had to get the Thrashers out of town. I know it is a different sport but I went to both. Why $hare any revenue from the "all" sports fans.
Click to expand...

They're selling that too.

Whoever would have wanted to buy the Thrashers and keep them in Atlanta would have to become a TENANT at Philips Arena, meaning less revenue for them.
 
Raymie said:
secondchoice said:
Does Spirit still own the Hawks? If so then they had to get the Thrashers out of town. I know it is a different sport but I went to both. Why $hare any revenue from the "all" sports fans.
Click to expand...

They're selling that too.

Whoever would have wanted to buy the Thrashers and keep them in Atlanta would have to become a TENANT at Philips Arena, meaning less revenue for them.
Click to expand...

So basically the Spirit wanted the Hawks to have Philips Arena all to themselves, period. Is that right? ::)
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom