Best Buy's new HD Radio Shelf System

[LinoNYC]

There is the nail in the coffin for IBOC, right there. Not only do you get thousands of stations instead of a dozen or two HD-2 channels (if you have a deep fringe antenna). The ethernet / wireless option effectively captures the listeners in the office. And - the tuner is cheaper than most HD radios.

The marketplace is sure as HEAVEN going to speak. And HD won't be the choice when portable internet radios become widely available.

Nail in the coffin for IBOC? Yeah right!

This entire thread is about a new, reasonably priced shelf system that just happens to include HD Radio. The kind of device that will allow people to discover HD Radio. Do you think they'll just tune right past all the HD stations they encounter on this and all the similar devices that are coming out? If someone's favorite song is playing on an HD2 channel, they'll just tune past it quickly, remembering that they can go out and buy an internet radio appliance?

And do you really think businesses are going to provide bandwidth just for their employee's entertainment? You've obviously never met an average IT guy! They obsess with getting the best performance out of their networks and locking them down to keep things like this from happening. Why would a company want to use their switches, routers and firewalls, not to mention internet bandwidth for actual business when they could use it to power their employee's Bavarian salsa rap fetish? Wireless connection? Forget Sarbanes-Oxley! We have internet radios to power!

Last Wed night I was at my location in Murray Hill, the TV was on and two women seated to my side were blabbing, when a commercial for WLTW came on, it shows these creepy animated characters 'tuning-in" the station via their desktops.

One woman asked the other "do they let you do that" -the other shook her head (no) and said that they had been told to bring a radio or ipod and not to use "company internet".

All of the proponents of internet radio miss two important aspects; the average person can barely setup and operate a standard radio, awful receprtion, out-of-phase speakers and no or wrong antenna are common. Then there is the issue of internet access, even in a major city such as New York, we are a long way from the kind of penetration that standard radio has. Even if "universal" wifi becomes reality, it probably won't be free.

Lino

 

[SUPERCASTER]

If:

the average person can barely setup and operate a standard radio, awful receprtion, out-of-phase speakers and no or wrong antenna are common.

Then HD radio has been doomed from the start.

 

[hipporadio]

Your name "hippo" reminds me of childhood visits to the Central Park Zoo, the hippos there would bang their heads against the doors when they wanted to go inside for the night.

Happy banging, Hippo!

WHAT AN eloquent and “classy conservationist”... Which such notable debate skills, his fellow HD enthusiasts should be making all kinds of noise about his participation here [the obvious technical variety aside].

‘Leave it the IBOC Club to take A FACTUAL and well-made point—and turn it into a personal insult :

 

[hipporadio]

"Closed circuit" for Hippoman, which isn't really "closed" since it would be cool to share with others on this board: let me/us know what you think of "George," the high-end "radio" from Chestnut Hill Audio, since you're professionally "tuned into" new consumer gear (so to speak.)

I haven't forgot about you Bob! "George" arrived late last week and is enjoying the "digs" at the boss's home... In fact, he likes him so much - my turn may be delayed by a week [or so]... I'll be sure to get back with the goods when I can take him for a test drive... After I've finished banging my head against a door over at the local zoo :

 

[hipporadio]

If Best Buy wasn't able to sell them (electronics items with the Insignia brand), they sure as hell wouldn't be selling them. And the Insignia brand is growing, not shrinking. Grasping at straws, are we?

NO... 'Just reporting THE FACTS, Mike - from an database not at all unlike those referenced in the radio biz!

0.2 represents TOTAL MARKET SHARE and BRAND PENETRATION - and includes sales in ALL Best Buy locations for ALL products with the Insignia badge... And NO - the figure IS NOT as "desperate" as similar would be for a local radio station... One can easily-assume the Sonys of the world do much better. The crux of the point [AGAIN] was: IF the "advantage" offered by this SINGLE product in but ONE rertail chain is some optimistic dream for huge numbers of consumers "stumbling on" to HD - THAT very dream is itself an example of "grasping at straws".

 

[hipporadio]

Let's not get carried away. This is Insignia... a store brand. You shouldn't expect too much from anything they put out. More than likely

1) The display will be dead within 6 months
2) The CD/DVD/MP3 drive will no longer read disks within 2 months
3) The left channel will crap within a year.

This is why you don't buy Dual, Insignia, GPX, Coby, Accurian (oops!), Emerson, Electro Brand, Jensen, Audiovox, Soundesign etc etc

Touché! VERY GOOD observation, wgli!

 

[LinoNYC]

Your name "hippo" reminds me of childhood visits to the Central Park Zoo, the hippos there would bang their heads against the doors when they wanted to go inside for the night.

Happy banging, Hippo!

WHAT AN eloquent and “classy conservationist”... Which such notable debate skills, his fellow HD enthusiasts should be making all kinds of noise about his participation here [the obvious technical variety aside].

‘Leave it the IBOC Club to take A FACTUAL and well-made point—and turn it into a personal insult :

You're kidding!, that is your name? My sincerest apologies!

(A very contrite) Lino

 

[Mike Walker]

A very good point that internet radio is all but irrelevant for a huge portion of office workers, as it's FORBIDDEN to use office bandwidth for streaming media. My wife works in the offices of a Fortune 100 company (with a big blue logo), and she is FORBIDDEN to listen to internet radio, or install any software with which to listen. I suspect this is typical, not unusual.

Think of the bandwidth costs for an office with a few thousand workers, each pulling 64-128kbps continuously for hours per day. OUCH!

As for the .2 percent for Insignia, I still don't understand...is that a figure for all brands offered AT BEST BUY (and would it include things like Record labels, consumer accessories, appliances, and other branded products having nothing to do with audio or video?), or is it their market share of the entire consumer electronics market, where there are thousands of brands? Just as important, as a figure in isolation without anything for comparison is meaningless, how does it compare with some of the more familiar brands? I've been told by Best Buy employees that Insignia's inexpensive (audio) receivers, TVs, and mp3 players sell well. Again, if Best Buy wasn't happy with the sales of this brand, why would they be expanding it?

 

[Radioman100]

A very good point that internet radio is all but irrelevant for a huge portion of office workers, as it's FORBIDDEN to use office bandwidth for streaming media. My wife works in the offices of a Fortune 100 company (with a big blue logo), and she is FORBIDDEN to listen to internet radio, or install any software with which to listen. I suspect this is typical, not unusual.

Think of the bandwidth costs for an office with a few thousand workers, each pulling 64-128kbps continuously for hours per day. OUCH!

A T1 would be totally choked by 12 users streaming at 128kbps.

It's not just bandwidth usage though. In many large companies, all of the networking gear is set up for maximum performance and security. They're not going to let that performance be compromised just so the employees can listen to internet radio. In many, the machines are so locked down that the users can't do anything with them except run the applications that relate to their job.

I'd love to see the look on the face of the average IT guy working for a Fortune 500 company if an employee asked for a port to plug in their internet appliance, and I pity the employee that brings in a router of their own to split their connection and do it themselves. Not only would it not work in most corporate networks, the monitoring software IT guys use would show it and tip off the IT guys.

 

[Fieldtech1]

Let's not get carried away. This is Insignia... a store brand. You shouldn't expect too much from anything they put out.

In Insignia's defense ,I havent tried every Insignia product, but their NS-B2111 speakers are awsome. They were raved about on audio-enthusiast forums (AVS, DIYAudio, Ect) and sold for 49 a pair. I personally use a pair in one of my setups and they give many of my more expensive "audiophile" speakers healthy competition. They are well built, with a carbon fiber cone woofers, a coaxial silk dome tweeter just to name a few features. These were features never seen on $50 dollar speakers much less $150 dollar " Name Brand" speakers.

 

[Mike Walker]

I can personally attest that Insignia's flash-based video-equipped mp3 players are dynamite! The picture quality is among the best of these small devices, and can play Divx at 30fps. They're very solidly built, and seem as if they could take a fall of a few feet to the floor without failing. The rubberized controls felt very nice. Menus took a little getting used to, some functions weren't immediately obvious, but that's the case with most of these devices.

I've also examined (though not listened to) one of their audio receivers, and it seemed to be quite solid. The LCD tvs with the Insignia badge that I've seen also looked nice, though I opted for Vizio because of much better connectivity.

 

[Chuck]

Again, if Best Buy wasn't happy with the sales of this brand, why would they be expanding it?

I'm sure they are very happy with it. Insignia is a "house brand." That means you can't price shop it over at Wal-Mart or Circuit City. They simply don’t have the identical product. It also means it has a lot more profit in it than selling something from Sony, Yamaha or Panasonic. House brands are real moneymakers for the retailer because there is no middle man. Just like broadcasting, retail consumer electronics is all about money. Nothing new.

 

[hipporadio]

Oh, Uncle Hippo! [here]... Allow me to slap my head—WAIT...Make that—“bang my head against the cage door” like a Hippopotamus in an urban zoo!

Mike... INSIGNIA IS SUCCESSFUL – just as “Merit Badges” indicate such in the Boy Scouts. They have just-shy of a QUARTER-of-ONE-percent of ALL retail consumer electronics sales in the marketplace—everyday and in every-way! BTW—that BETTERS the likes of C Crane, TIVOLI, and Chestnut Hill Audio... “Quantitative”—NOT “qualitative”... Nonetheless—are you SATISFIED? That is actually—“IMPRESSIVE”... and leads ALL other “store brands”. WalMart might be well-advised to offer the same; and could easily-surpass that figure IF they did. THEY DON’T for “interesting” reasons. These are actually the subject of a complex marketing dissertation I’m reading now... And basically boil down to: “They” [Wally-World] DOESN’T want that “stigma” with “lifestyle” products... Sweats, socks, and even auto batteries are one thing—“NAME BRANDS in the living room” [typified by the “sex appeal” of Sony] are ANOTHER matter... They would MUCH RATHER offer “the deal” on a well-marketed “name brand” than dabble in their own... Those “name brands” offer less potential at per-unit sales profit, BUT since Wally can sell sooo-many at sooo-many locations—that issue diminishes in importance—to a point where they consider “image” over per-unit profit. UNDERSTANDABLE—given the retail genre of WalMart!

Now Mike, I will hand you the concession that INSIGNIA gets a Merit Badge—but that DOES NOT make the twenty-one required for an Eagle Scout Award! I’ll save complex discussions for a FAR-LESS ROOT forum than those visited by corporate radio apologists, but I will share that Best Buy’s “success” with the Insignia brand brings its own “issues” to their sales and corporate reputation. “Store brands” are correctly-described as “high profit”; USUALLY-DISCOUNTED DEEPLY as “door-busters” on a special sale date; typically the motivation for “bait ‘n switch”; and nearly-always a reason for an even-more-profitable “Extended Service Contract”... Think [again] about WHY WalMart chose NOT to “go there”!

But I repeat [until Hippos stop banging their heads at the Central Park Zoo]: ONE PRODUCT whose relationship with ONE dubious non-badged manufacturer; available at a price that changes with ANY opportunity; within ONE chain [only] of retail stores—TOTALING 0.2 percent of ALL retail consumer-electronics sales—IS NOT a lifeline for an ill-conceived product [created within THE NARROWEST of SELF-interest] that REPEATED and MULTIPLE surveys show as a “consumer non-starter”!

 

[LinoNYC]

But I repeat [until Hippos stop banging their heads at the Central Park Zoo]: ONE PRODUCT whose relationship with ONE dubious non-badged manufacturer; available at a price that changes with ANY opportunity; within ONE chain [only] of retail stores—TOTALING 0.2 percent of ALL retail consumer-electronics sales—IS NOT a lifeline for an ill-conceived product [created within THE NARROWEST of SELF-interest] that REPEATED and MULTIPLE surveys show as a “consumer non-starter”!

As a service might I suggest that you cut-and-paste the above paragraph. That way it will be available, with minimal modification as more iboc embedded products appear over the coming months and years.

(A helpful) Lino

 

[hipporadio]

But I repeat [until Hippos stop banging their heads at the Central Park Zoo]: ONE PRODUCT whose relationship with ONE dubious non-badged manufacturer; available at a price that changes with ANY opportunity; within ONE chain [only] of retail stores—TOTALING 0.2 percent of ALL retail consumer-electronics sales—IS NOT a lifeline for an ill-conceived product [created within THE NARROWEST of SELF-interest] that REPEATED and MULTIPLE surveys show as a “consumer non-starter”!

As a service might I suggest that you cut-and-paste the above paragraph. That way it will be available, with minimal modification as more iboc embedded products appear over the coming months and years.

(A helpful) Lino

THANK-YOU for being "so-helpful" Lino... I WILL use it as a "badge" in the future--it's THAT good!

THANKS!
[a head-banging] HIPPO

 

[Fieldtech1]

WalMart might be well-advised to offer the same; and could easily-surpass that figure IF they did. THEY DON’T

Walmart has a in house brand of electronics called of all things "Durabrand"

See example below.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4810706

 

[hipporadio]

WalMart might be well-advised to offer the same; and could easily-surpass that figure IF they did. THEY DON’T

Walmart has a in house brand of electronics called of all things "Durabrand"

...And it was rated 2.5-stars-of-five... BUT "Durabrand" IS NOT a "real" WalMart brand!

 

[Mike Walker]

Most Durabrand products look like they were made in far-eastern sweatshops of inferior materials, and will break soon.

However, last year on "Black Friday" Wal Mart ran a special on the Durabrand 9" portable DVD player...79 dollars! 79 dollars for a player with a 9" screen. And despite the fact that it says in the manual that the unit DOES NOT play Divx (and Xvid), it actually does. I expected to return the thing, but was shocked to find that it worked VERY well, and produced a nice bright picture (with visible pixels if you look closely, of course...it is an inexpensive device), great sound, and played anything I threw at it. It's one of my favorite portable doo-dads, and I use it all the time for playing internet "tv shows" like DLTV, Tekzilla, Cranky Geeks, CommandN, and many others...as well as watching "good stuff" on my side of the bed (with headphones) while my wife watches Terminator 2 (Independence Day, Alien...name the bad science fiction flick, and she's into it!) for the nine thousandth time. While it IS amusing to see the governor of our largest state "kick ass", seeing it four times a week (it's amazing how often they run that thing!) ain't my idea of entertainment.

My point is that store brands, even very cheap ones, can occasionally hold some pretty nice surprises. This HD shelf system at BB may be one of 'em.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

My point is that store brands, even very cheap ones, can occasionally hold some pretty nice surprises. This HD shelf system at BB may be one of 'em.

Best Buy has the right idea if they want HD to sell - get the cost down. The thing I find with store brands is that they are taking the best (and cheapest) design elements from other manufacturers, cost reducing them if possible, then manufacturing. In a sense - they bypass the R&D phase, let somebody else do the initial design, make the mistakes, and develop a workable solution. So some store brands can be really good. On the other hand, there is Radio Shack's Superadio fiasco - where they cost reduced a GE classic to the point that it no longer had the performance that DX'ers wanted.

Chinese manufacturing houses are notorious for aggressive cost reduction, you have to be careful. They will give you exactly what you ask for - and if you don't ask for the performance, it simply won't be there. You get the contracted item, with the contractually agreed performance, at the price expected, and on schedule. But they will have picked every penny out of the design and pocketed the difference.

 

[Mike Walker]

Very well put, rbruce. Who's responsible for the trade imbalance, and the closed factories? We are. We make these decisions every time we go shopping.