Best Buy's new HD Radio Shelf System

[hipporadio]

Both the Receptor HD and the Sony have incredible sound quality that absolutely SPANKS the Tivoli.

THAT is YOUR “PERSONAL OPINION” [ONLY]... FINE—YOU’RE ENTITLED...Others DISAGREE and have published their differing opinion frequently! I own TWO of these models [and have purchased the MONO BA Receptor as a gift]; ‘LOVE all three; AND have frequently [in other venues and here]—described their performance as “a horse-race”, BUT none have substandard audio—they excel in differing areas! ALL THREE have GREAT SOUND and RECEPTION and shouldn’t be discounted—ONLY for an “HD-type’s” typical [and pathetic] argument!

"Diminished power amp?" That's an embarassingly inaccurate statement!

MORE pro-HD enthusiast’s arrogant rhetoric : The Sony has 2.3 watts [RMS] per channel... The Sangean WR-2 HAS EIGHT—and a much-better speaker! WHAT about that is “embarrassingly inaccurate”? Such is a published and FTC-compliant FACT—one the HD crowd chooses to discount when they practice “hit ‘n run” ON a radio board!

One of my co-workers owns the Tivoli Model One. I just snuck into his office and cranked it up. Not horrible for a radio with such a tiny speaker, but certainly not in the same league as the Receptor HD or Sony.

“How do you know?”—from a brief [and jaded] visit on a coffee-break to your “co-worker’s office” in a Manhattan Ivory Tower?... I have frequently said here that “I have NO experience with the Sony”—but believe it to be a fine product [on feedback from others]... The Tivoli Model One is another matter—I OWN ONE! As I type this, it’s playing a local Classic Hits station ON AM—“Stay With Me”, “Spirit In The Sky”, and “I Can Hear Music” sound AWESOME... I CAN hear music—complete with good-ole-fashioned “super-het” [it IS “nighttime”]... This radio’s unique AM QUALITY is EXCEPTIONAL—but you would routinely dis-it ONLY to make your robotic “Pro-HD argument”? “Moving air?”... Its port faces DOWNWARD, so are you manipulating its useful position to make your point? If anything—it is criticized for having “too MUCH bass”. What it IS NOT criticized for is its AWESOME FM RECEPTION—NOT enjoyed by your favorite Boston Acoustics HD Receptor—which was quickly-dropped from its line for it’s disappointing qualities and company embarrassment!

Bob Crane is an AM radio fan. That's his often stated reason for starting C. Crane. He has also been somewhat outspoken against HD on AM.

OH—so now “Bob is a bad guy”—after founding a company based on providing “GOOD AM radios” [he actually provides A LOT MORE in these days]. I would hope you “HD fans” would LOVE a guy like Bob Crane... But OBVIOUSLY-NOT—because he doesn’t “walk in your step” – and embrace your defective and destructive corporate radio technology!

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

My completely neutral opinion regarding the audio on the Tivoli Model 1 and the Boston Acoustics Recepter (The non HD one):

The Recepter is designed for high sound quality at a loud volume. It also emphasizes the bass quite a bit. Would be perfect for a kitchen or other area with high noise levels -- maybe even a store, a workshop, or a rec room.

The Tivoli is designed to be more high-fi at a lower volume, the kind of thing you would want on a desk in a bull pen, an office or even on yoru bedside table. Yes, the bass is not quite as exaggerated as the Recepter. But then again, I think they're designed with different uses in mind.

They're both good radios. They're just different.

That being said, I prefer the Tivoli, mainly because of its analog tuning.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

I tried the Sony tabletop HD Radio in the store and it seemed to have better reception and a MUCH better user interface, with instant response to the buttons and dials -- plus the Sony has RDS, which I'm not sure the Insignia has (it didn't show any RDS scrolls from the FM signals which are transmitting it). However, $179 is a lot for just a radio. If it came down to around $99 I would definitely consider it.

Yes. I've also tried that Sony (also at Best Buy, go figure). I like the design of the unit and the controls were fairly logical to use. Almost reminded me of how you change settings on my mom's Toyota van radio.

Now, audio quality on FM was good. However, I couldn't tell the difference when the radio had switched to HD. The only way I could tell was that the HD indicator would stop blinking, the volume would "dip" for a second and then return to normal.

But the difference between FM analog and FM digital? I couldn't hear it. It sure didn't blow me out of the water, both signals sounded exactly the same.

Receiving HD2 and HD3 signals on the Sony was easy, just move the tuning knob a click to the right after the radio has locked into HD-1.

Sound quality on those were OK. They sounded like AM, but with a few swishy artifacts in the background. Turning the treble control down helped solve that a little bit.

Overall, an easy to use radio. But still....expensive for most, especially when you can't hear the difference between HD-1 and analog FM.

Even I, who had no qualms about dropping 100 dollars (a princely sum for me) for a Tivoli 1 back when they first came out, was hesitant to buy this thing ... even though my intention was to use it at home to see how it worked and then return it for a refund.

I can't comment on AM reception, since the AM loop wasn't even there.

The FM had been hooked into a coax line that I presume goes to an external antenna somewhere - you can't pick up any FM signals inside the store itself.

The Best Buy store I went to is located in a basement in Manhattan on 23rd street. The Empire State building is on 34th, so it should be a strong signal area for FM.

 

[Radioman100]

THAT is YOUR “PERSONAL OPINION” [ONLY]... FINE—YOU’RE ENTITLED...Others DISAGREE and have published their differing opinion frequently! I own TWO of these models [and have purchased the MONO BA Receptor as a gift]; ‘LOVE all three; AND have frequently [in other venues and here]—described their performance as “a horse-race”, BUT none have substandard audio—they excel in differing areas! ALL THREE have GREAT SOUND and RECEPTION and shouldn’t be discounted—ONLY for an “HD-type’s” typical [and pathetic] argument!

Go back and re-read my post. I didn't say the Tivoli sounded bad, I just said both the Sony and the Receptor HD spanked it in terms of audio quality. Since you were saying that the HD radios suffered from a "diminished power amp" I think it's only fair to point out that both the Receptor HD and Sony will play at a fairly loud volume with no objectionable distortion. In fact, the Receptor HD will play really loud with no objectionable distortion. The Tivoli absolutely can not.

MORE pro-HD enthusiast’s arrogant rhetoric : The Sony has 2.3 watts [RMS] per channel... The Sangean WR-2 HAS EIGHT—and a much-better speaker! WHAT about that is “embarrassingly inaccurate”? Such is a published and FTC-compliant FACT—one the HD crowd chooses to discount when they practice “hit ‘n run” ON a radio board!

Did I say ANYTHING about the Sangean in my response? I've never laid hands or ears on that model. In your original post, you made a blanket statement about "diminished power amps" being an HD problem while you were basically praising the Tivoli Model One and talking about how much your boss liked it, while saying the speakers in the these fine HD Radios are "poor" and they have a "diminished power amp." Huh? A radio that can't play anywhere near as loud and can't produce bass anywhere near as low has a better speaker and a better power amp? I don't think so!

“How do you know?”—from a brief [and jaded] visit on a coffee-break to your “co-worker’s office” in a Manhattan Ivory Tower?... I have frequently said here that “I have NO experience with the Sony”—but believe it to be a fine product [on feedback from others]... The Tivoli Model One is another matter—I OWN ONE! As I type this, it’s playing a local Classic Hits station ON AM—“Stay With Me”, “Spirit In The Sky”, and “I Can Hear Music” sound AWESOME... I CAN hear music—complete with good-ole-fashioned “super-het” [it IS “nighttime”]... This radio’s unique AM QUALITY is EXCEPTIONAL—but you would routinely dis-it ONLY to make your robotic “Pro-HD argument”? “Moving air?”... Its port faces DOWNWARD, so are you manipulating its useful position to make your point? If anything—it is criticized for having “too MUCH bass”. What it IS NOT criticized for is its AWESOME FM RECEPTION—NOT enjoyed by your favorite Boston Acoustics HD Receptor—which was quickly-dropped from its line for it’s disappointing qualities and company embarrassment!

I said nothing about the performance of the tuner in the Tivoli. My statements applied only to the sound of the radio, which happened to be tuned to an FM station when I gave it a listen. It wasn't bad, but I wasn't impressed when I compared it to the Receptor HD and Sony.

As for the Receptor HD, I've been listening to a station over 70 miles away in HD all weekend on it. Maybe the tuner in it isn't as bad as I thought. As for being dropped by Boston Acoustics, I'm not entirely sure it has. It's still prominently featured on their website and can still be bought online there. There's no mention of it being discontinued. It seems this "company embarassment" may have some life in it yet.

OH—so now “Bob is a bad guy”—after founding a company based on providing “GOOD AM radios” [he actually provides A LOT MORE in these days]. I would hope you “HD fans” would LOVE a guy like Bob Crane... But OBVIOUSLY-NOT—because he doesn’t “walk in your step” – and embrace your defective and destructive corporate radio technology!

It seems you only see what you want to see. Never did I say Bob Crane is a "bad guy." What I did say is it's disingenuous of him to put a warning in his flyer saying HD Radio has a range of only 25 miles from the transmitter. Not only is that statement totally incorrect, coming from someone who professes to be an expert on radio reception like Bob Crane, it's diminishes him. HD reception, like analog reception, depends on many variables. Power, antenna height, terrain, obstructions and other variables come into play, and Bob should know better. To say it only works within 25 miles of the transmitter is just plain wrong. It could be less or more (a lot more in my experience) depending on the station.

As for your played-out assertion that HD is "defective and destructive" it's working just fine for me, and hasn't destroyed anything that I want to listen to. In fact, it hasn't destroyed anything as far as I can tell. This "defective" technology has a range of better than 70 miles here. I can't wait to test it with the 10dB increase.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I prefer an instant 100 db digital power increase for both HD AM and FM. Let's get this HD fiasco over with quickly.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I paid Best Buy a visit - first off, they advertised a new Insignia $119 CAR HD radio - none on display - asked Car Dept Mgr - yep - 'got a bunch up there on the top shelf' - but couldn't even tell me if it had song titles or not - 'come back in a week and maybe I'll have one installed'.

Couldn't hear the JVC HD car radio - Mgr says it doesn't display song titles or anything other than Time/Freq. (showed him that it did-DUH).

Checked-out the BB HD Shelf Unit - holy smokes, my grandma has faster reflexes. Push a button, drink some coffee, then it responds. I could not change the channel/frequency without the remote, so I can't report on HD quality.

Sony radio worked on FM after I strung their antenna out, but AM didn't work in the store, even with two HD-AM locals and playing with the loop.

The Sony was the only hope for FM-HD. AM-HD DOA in-store without an additional loop.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

AM-HD DOA in-store without an additional loop.

AM _PERIOD_ is DOA inside these big suburban type box stores. You're lucky to even get a few FM signals

Think about it. Most of these buildings are built with re-bar reinforced concrete, with tin roofs. Faraday cage, anyone?

Then there's all the RFI from the ceiling lights, the computers that run the inventory, all the TV sets and computers running at the same time, etc. etc.

Not the ideal reception environment for any wave band or transmission mode.

 

[hipporadio]

AM HD is D.O.A. period—and should be banned! HD on FM?—another matter. It doesn’t appear to be hurting anyone; it offers multicast options—although they are poorly-programmed; and to some in multipath-prone areas [such as Mike in the foothills of the App Mountains]—HD FM offers a diminished noise floor for Classical Music listening. It will suffer appropriate judgment from the infamous “marketplace”.

Mike’s “HD-FM reception testimonials” are somewhat astonishing to me; as I have “handled” a BA HD Receptor on the prairies of east-central Indiana—NO HD reception from ANY Cincinnati or Indianapolis FM... AM performance was equally-abysmal [WLW did not transmit HD at that time]. Recently, I evaluated a fine Sangean HDR-1 HD-capable table radio given as a gift to a neighbor of my parents on Fripp Island, South Carolina... After this former CFO of Anthem COULDNOT get HD to lock in metro-Indianapolis—he took his gift “South”—hoping to score an HD-2 offering from a Class C 100kw FM in Charleston—removed by only 40-miles of ruler-flat seawater and tidal marsh—NO SUCH LUCK... My own “paws” could NOT prey an HD lock on the second floor of my parents ELEVATED home either—even with a well-oriented C Crane “FM Reflect” premium FM dipole antenna!

WHAT does the “HD Crowd” here on this board wish us to do? ...Close our eyes and ears—and subscribe to “The FANTASY” that “all is dandy” in the iBquity kingdom?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

HD on FM?—another matter. It doesn’t appear to be hurting anyone; it offers multicast options—although they are poorly-programmed; and to

It jams first adjacents and should be banned immediately. There have been hundreds of reports from disenfranchised NPR listeners when a nearer station fires up IBOC. If they can do digital and keep off first adjacents - fine. But if they jam first adjacents - trash it.

 

[hipporadio]

HD on FM?—another matter. It doesn’t appear to be hurting anyone; it offers multicast options—although they are poorly-programmed; and...

It jams first adjacents and should be banned immediately...

rbruce, I AGREE WITH YOU on “principal”. I seldom frequent “the non-com band”, so maybe I’m missing out on the adjacent-channel “cluster-coatis” that offends you.

A year-ago, on a Thanksgiving dinner visit to Loveland, OH [a northeast Cincinnati suburb], I ventured outdoors to a new Chrysler mini-van to “test-drive” the factory radio. FM stations are well-sandwiched at that location... LOTS of out-of-market Class As on second-adjacent channels and some real “whoppers” on first-adjacent assignments—like the notorious 102.7/102.9 “Grandfathered short-space”. Cincy is “ground-zero” for members of the “HD Cartel”—nearly EVERY local FM there has its HD saddlebags on display. After an hour of band-scanning—I COULDN’T find an obvious example of IBOC-induced “interference” to out-of-market low-powered FM signals—well beyond their 60 AND 42dbu [unprotected] contours.

You know from my posts here: that I AM NOT a fan of “HD Radio”... But I will NOT compromise my desire for “intellectual honesty” and acquire “convenient blindness” [SO-OFTEN associated with the HD enthusiasts here]—simply to “trash” a product. FM HD is something I WOULD NOT spend hard-earned dollars on... I doubt many-others will also. It is “neutral” and “nothing” in the marketplace—and will suffer an appropriate passing with time!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

IBOC-induced “interference” to out-of-market low-powered FM signals—well beyond their 60 AND 42dbu [unprotected] contours.

I hear the IBOC advocates retreat back the the "protected countours" argument all the time - the thing they fail to understand is that there is a whole class of suburban listeners far outside of the protected contours, but still part of the "local" audience. And the suburbs tend to be very affluent and are prime targets for advertisers. It isn't much of a problem here, but in the East where you can have a city every 30 to 40 miles - there are a lot of first adjacent situations and listeners. All it takes to separate them out is relatively equal signal strengths, then the capture ratio of just about any FM radio can pick out one and reject the other. And the IBOC sidebands are very robust interference sources - even on FM. A station that relies on ratings from suburbs to appeal to advertisers has a lot to lose when a first adjacent in a neighboring city fires up IBOC. Especially when that neighboring city is as close to the suburbs as they are. Down go ratings and advertising revenue. Of course they can always retaliate against the offending station by firing up IBOC themselves - but there are NO winners in that scenario.

What was needed was a new digital band - since people would be forced to buy new radios to receive digital anyway. Instead we get this kludge that barely works under the best conditions - and saturates both bands with interference. We ought to throw those bums in the FCC out of their cushy jobs - because this defective system would have never seen the light of day if they were doing their jobs, or were even halfway decent engineers.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Let's not get carried away. This is Insignia... a store brand. You shouldn't expect too much from anything they put out. More than likely

1) The display will be dead within 6 months
2) The CD/DVD/MP3 drive will no longer read disks within 2 months
3) The left channel will crap within a year.

This is why you don't buy Dual, Insignia, GPX, Coby, Accurian (oops!), Emerson, Electro Brand, Jensen, Audiovox, Soundesign etc etc

'GLI and I stopped by a Best Buy store a few weeks back to finally check this unit out.

The results?

There weren't any. The remote control was missing in action. All the damned controls for tuning the radio and selecting audio sources (Tuner, CD, Aux) are on the clicker! What kind of effin retard thinks these things up?!!!!

 

[R.F. Burns]

IBOC-induced “interference” to out-of-market low-powered FM signals—well beyond their 60 AND 42dbu [unprotected] contours.

I hear the IBOC advocates retreat back the the "protected countours" argument all the time - the thing they fail to understand is that there is a whole class of suburban listeners far outside of the protected contours, but still part of the "local" audience. And the suburbs tend to be very affluent and are prime targets for advertisers. It isn't much of a problem here, but in the East where you can have a city every 30 to 40 miles - there are a lot of first adjacent situations and listeners. All it takes to separate them out is relatively equal signal strengths, then the capture ratio of just about any FM radio can pick out one and reject the other. And the IBOC sidebands are very robust interference sources - even on FM. A station that relies on ratings from suburbs to appeal to advertisers has a lot to lose when a first adjacent in a neighboring city fires up IBOC. Especially when that neighboring city is as close to the suburbs as they are. Down go ratings and advertising revenue. Of course they can always retaliate against the offending station by firing up IBOC themselves - but there are NO winners in that scenario.

What was needed was a new digital band - since people would be forced to buy new radios to receive digital anyway. Instead we get this kludge that barely works under the best conditions - and saturates both bands with interference. We ought to throw those bums in the FCC out of their cushy jobs - because this defective system would have never seen the light of day if they were doing their jobs, or were even halfway decent engineers.

I'm not giong to get into a flame war but what has to be understood hear is that a radio station is licensed by the FCC to cover a specific geographic location. It matters not that population sprawl has occured. You are protected from inteference to specific distances. Using your theory about protection and station coverage let me say this, Officer, I realize that the speed limit is 55 MPH here but these speed limits were established at a time when it would have been unsafe for older cars to travel faster. There are no pedestrian crosswalks, or traffic lights on this road. Today we have all wheel drive, traction control, anti lock breaks, air bags and on and on. I've driven that road safely traveling at 80 MPH, so why are you giving me a ticket for speeding?

 

[calstymes]

Fascinating argument. But it can work both ways.

Permit me to take a liberty and rewrite what R.F. wrote (all in good fun):

I'm not going to get into a flame war but what has to be understood (here here!) is that a radio station is licensed by the FCC to cover a specific geographic location and it is protected from interference to specific distances. Mr. FCC, I realize that AM HD radio now exists but I've been listening to my favorite AM radio station from a technically "unprotected" geographic location since 1962. It is really not far away at all from its protected geographic location and certainly wouldn't be considered "DX". Now these protected geographic locations for radio stations were established at a time when sources of interference could be easily identified if they tried to encroach on protected areas and it would have been unsafe for radio stations to operate outside their licensed parameters so that they interfered with others. In fact, Mr. FCC, let me further say that even though these protected geographic locations were established using the best engineering data possible that could be obtained, in fact nobody really knew to what distances you would actually be able to comfortably listen to your favorite AM radio stations, even during the daytime when there is only a ground wave component. But today, there appear to be no rules to deal with noise generators on our sidebands and even though we all have brand spanking new digital radios, synthesized and channelized tuning capabilities and the ability to hear AM audio in HD (often as if it were a tinny and sibilant FM station), I've been listening to my favorite AM radio station for 45 years so why are you saying that I can't listen to it anymore because some other AM radio station on an adjacent frequency is using HD and it is causing the received signal of my favorite AM radio station at my location to no longer be listenable?

How do we deal with that, Mr. FCC?

 

[R.F. Burns]

Yes Cal, I am aware that I typed 'hear' instead of 'here'. So much for my typing skills. Say what you will, if interference is suffered outside of a stations protected contour the FCC will do nothing. Said interfering station isn't breaking any laws. I keep reading how IBOC is doomed and on and on. Meanwhile more radios keep coming on the market and this rush to turn off IBOC at stations isn’t occurring either. On FM more IBOC stations continue to appear every month.

 

[wgliradio]

Let's not get carried away. This is Insignia... a store brand. You shouldn't expect too much from anything they put out. More than likely

1) The display will be dead within 6 months
2) The CD/DVD/MP3 drive will no longer read disks within 2 months
3) The left channel will crap within a year.

This is why you don't buy Dual, Insignia, GPX, Coby, Accurian (oops!), Emerson, Electro Brand, Jensen, Audiovox, Soundesign etc etc

'GLI and I stopped by a Best Buy store a few weeks back to finally check this unit out.

The results?

There weren't any. The remote control was missing in action. All the damned controls for tuning the radio and selecting audio sources (Tuner, CD, Aux) are on the clicker! What kind of effin retard thinks these things up?!!!!

Retards! Seriosuly, the Insignia unit is worth $50 at best. The few controls that could be operated from the unit itself did lag. No excuse.

 

[Mike Walker]

"NO EXCUSE" WGLIRadio, EXCEPT that the Insignia isn't the only model out there that needs the remote for it's very survival! An alarming number of consumer electronics devices are "in the same boat". From radios, to tvs, to audio systems, to streaming audio devices, to dvd recorders, you name it. Without the remote, they're doorstops! And it's a cryin' shame. But hardly unique to this unit!

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

And it's a cryin' shame. But hardly unique to this unit!

Nobody said it was exclusive to this particular unit. I have the same quarrel with the new version of Bose's Wave Radio. No controls on the box -- everything's on the clicker. And I'm not asking for anything advanced like presetting stations or EQ or whatever. How hard is it to put a simple Tune UP-Down toggle on the unit's faceplate??

At least the Sony didn't need a clicker to do basic stuff like tune around stations. :

*takes a breath and goes outside*

 

[Chuck]

"NO EXCUSE" WGLIRadio, EXCEPT that the Insignia isn't the only model out there that needs the remote for it's very survival! An alarming number of consumer electronics devices are "in the same boat". From radios, to tvs, to audio systems, to streaming audio devices, to dvd recorders, you name it. Without the remote, they're doorstops! And it's a cryin' shame. But hardly unique to this unit!

I don't know about you, but we have a large basket in our living room with all the remotes living in it. It is mind-boggling and very aggravating, especially for devices that rarely get used. Even my laptop computer has a wireless remote. I never figured out why, nor did I want to learn.

As for the Insignia radios, there is an interesting review of them in the latest issue of Radio-Info Magazine. The author was mildly enthusiastic about the car radio version, especially considering its low price. As for the "'executive" table top version he said to "take a pass on this one."

 

[SteveScott]

I'm not an engineer or expert on audio...I'm just a humble newsman who works at an AM station. I'd love to hear my station come in with FM sound quality.

So...my question to you folks who know this stuff is:

Which HD radio should I buy? Radio Shack? Best Buy? Somewhere else?

I really don't understand technical stuff...I just want a radio that sounds good!

Thanks much!