Bye bye Indie. It was nice knowing you.

[Doctah]

Yes - they won the illustrious "Rolling Stone Station Of The Year Award" - while KROQ was the BIA station of the year for highest billing station of the year. I'll take the latter.

It's like Arrested Development winning tons of Emmys and American Idol being the #1 show. Awards mean nothing - audience does.

The "Arrested Development" analogy is a good one -- and it can be taken both ways. "Arrested" never attracted a large audience, but people still talk about that show, years after it went off the air. There's also constant interest in a movie version... and a general consensus that the show was at least a quality gem and was hugely influential.

If I'm a businessman, BFD. But if I'm a creative type, that's something I could be proud of.

Ditto Indie. Indie will never be seen as something to emulate from a business perspective. But in the world of pop culture, and trend setting, and even in the music industry (which came to appreciate Indie's ability to expose music to the industry, which would then in turn expose it to the world via TV shows, commericals, etc.), people will be talking about Indie and lamenting its loss for some time to come. Look at the sheer amount of attention the demise of Indie has received in the press, on blogs, etc. If a top-rated station like KOST went away tomorrow, it wouldn't get as much attention. Yet Indie did -- kinda unusual for a station that consistently ranked 45th in the market. If I were one of the creative types behind Indie, I'd be proud.

 

[davideduardo]

If I were one of the creative types behind Indie, I'd be proud.

I go by the poster I saw years ago at a major ad agency... "It's not creative unless it sells."

In "commercial" art, winning awards is a distraction... and the agency in question worried that the concern with Addies was making the creative staff do stuff for peer group acclaim which would not move product for the clients, as pretty as it might be.

Goes for Indie, too.

 

[ocer]

Unfortunately "commercial" art tends to appeal to the lowest common denominator to have the widest appeal.  This is the way to go to make the most profit.  Sometimes art isn't understood by everyone.  It is still worthwhile to those who enjoy it and probably even more than the masses.

What does Entravision have to pay to keep this thing running?  A computer in a corner office?  They're not using studios for El Gato if it's automated as I understand, so for the time being there's not much to loose by running specialty shows.  As long as they're not in the game to make huge returns they stand at least a chance.  After all internet technology is growing (WiFi/iPhones/iPod Touch).  Clear Channel is trying to tap into it with their I heart Radio application for the iPhone.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

David e you have never said one kind thing about indie which was a fantastic well programmed radio station.You see no gray in your life everything is black and white and ina city like los angeles there is a lot of gray!!!

It really ticks me off that even in its demise you can't even appreciate entravision for doing the format in todays radio landscape.

The ppm's seem to be killing alternative radio its second victim last week was grock radio on the jersey shore which had been some form of alt since the mid eighties.I can understand why entravision did what they did but not prss communications cause they blew it up in favor of a chr a piped in chr from dial global something but it is a way overtapped area for chr for Z-100 is right there and for the record Z-100 is way better then kiss in la but it appears ppm's is not kind as of now to the alternative format.

 

[davideduardo]

David e you have never said one kind thing about indie which was a fantastic well programmed radio station.You see no gray in your life everything is black and white and ina city like los angeles there is a lot of gray!!!

A station taht went out with a 0.3 share can neither be called "fantastic" nor "well programmed." It was simply too niche. And that means "too hip for the room."

There's nothing gray about KDLD. It was not making money, the ratings were declining prior to the PPM, and they continued to go down in the PPM just as they had been doing in the diary survey. It's not the PPM, it's the station.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

But thats what made it great the niche thing you mention.

Then tell me i want your take on this there is alternative station in colimbus ohio called cd 101 which was like indie 1031 in some ways and they get like 1.5 or so and have been around for years so why do they last in a top 50 market and indie 1031 turned the lights out? They got new competition in the last year or so with clear channel flipping a station to a pop alternative sound like radio 104.5 in phili.

But cd 101 is privately owned by a very man with very deep pockets and will not sell.

 

[gerald]

hotpatrick, please move on. As they say in court, "asked and answered." David must have a macro button that he hits every time someone says "How come Indie didn't work in LA and (insert calls and market) is a raging success?"

It's a station that will always be talked about and referred to, not just in LA but around the country,and thanks to the internets you can find a similar station in another market to listen to.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm noticing a very obvious disconnect between certain groups of listeners, specifically of stations like Indie 103, or G-Rock in NJ, and maybe even KZOK in Seattle, and (on the other hand) the owners of these radio stations who need to attract larger numbers of people because that's what advertisers want. The problem with that is the smaller group is way more passionate than the larger group. So in order to attract advertising, these stations have to forsake a passionate audience base. There seems to me, just as an observer of it all, the need to find a way to translate audience passion into a quantifiable thing that an advertiser might want. What I'm talking about is something that isn't qualitifiable by PPMs or any traditional ratings. But radio needs to continue to attract the smaller passionate audience, as well as the larger more passive audience, in order to exist. We just have to find a way to translate audience passion into sponsorship dollars. Ideas anyone?

 

[AM FM listener]

David must have a macro button that he hits every time someone says "How come Indie didn't work in LA and (insert calls and market) is a raging success?"

That's funny....

 

[musicfan101]

Gary Lycan in the OC Register hinted that the personalities who are continuing to do shows with Indie1031 online, are doing it for free in order to keep the format and brand alive.

As Mark Ramsey has frequently pointed out, anymore it isn't just how large a number of listeners a station attracts that alone determines success but how engaged and passionate they are about the format and the way the station puts it together.

As we know, Indie 103.1 had a sizable, devoted fan base. Perhaps this is one online station that can succeed financially as those fans transfer to the web.

C5

Good luck. Entravision will give up on this loser very fast. It will be their next "fat" to cut. The economy isn't going to get better, they'll never be able to sell it, have no staff to do so and as a spanish language radio company, are not devoted to it. I give it 2 or 3 months until they pull the plug.

Well...you are a tad bit short...there is a huge scare going on at Entravision that this will be gone by next week, I hope I'm wrong...

 

[RealityBites]

I was jogging the other day with my Indie 103 cap. Someone actually stopped me on the street and offered me $100 for it.

Good thing I grabbed 3 of them back in the day!

Good radio, great formats will return some day......it's Christmas right?

 

[musicfan101]

I was jogging the other day with my Indie 103 cap. Someone actually stopped me on the street and offered me $100 for it.

Good thing I grabbed 3 of them back in the day!

Good radio, great formats will return some day......it's Christmas right?

I can top that one...I was in the gym a month ago, and I had my Indie shirt in my locker. When I came back from my workout, I caught someone trying to steal my shirt...

 

[RealityBites]

There is no doubt that Indie had that "brand" that everyone desired. Glad to see Jonesy back doing his show online.
One of THE coolest encounters I've ever had was introducing my 15 year old son to Steve. He was a great guy,
he signed all kinds of stuff, we took video, etc. Steve was GRAND. Now my son is 19, he is a DJ on morning drive at his
University and he is playing in a rock band with his college pals. LONG LIVE ROCK!

It was "cool" to be an indie fan. It still is.

Lesson of the day: Keep your Indie gear safe!

That or Ebay...perhaps? LOL

 

[musicfan101]

There is no doubt that Indie had that "brand" that everyone desired. Glad to see Jonesy back doing his show online.
One of THE coolest encounters I've ever had was introducing my 15 year old son to Steve. He was a great guy,
he signed all kinds of stuff, we took video, etc. Steve was GRAND. Now my son is 19, he is a DJ on morning drive at his
University and he is playing in a rock band with his college pals. LONG LIVE ROCK!

It was "cool" to be an indie fan. It still is.

Lesson of the day: Keep your Indie gear safe!

That or Ebay...perhaps? LOL

That's great to hear about your son! I'm the same age and I hope to accomplish the same thing at my university. I agree/disagree with two things you said...1. Keep your Indie gear safe and in lockdown....2. NEVER, EVER, sale your Indie gear, EVER!

 

[RBB05]

While DE explains the lack of ratings, the truth is Indie had a huge following. For those who listened to the station, many of the guests/artists/actors/producers were huge fans of the show....think any of them were ever going to fill out a diary or wear a ppm pager? Indie was too hip for the room, but also one of the most terrifically programmed stations in the last 30 years in LA. The effort and blood and sweat and total devotion that people put into that station was amazing. David was right...in the agency world, the station was always going to suffer because of the numbers. No one whose job it was it is to only secure numbers was never going to get it. CLients who got it from a conceptual standpoint and could understand an undersized, understaffed, under-supported station turning out the events and promotions like it did, well those were ones who benfitted. Now the market just has more of the same crud that gets repeated everywhere.

 

[david]

Just looked in on the Indie 103.1 site and Twitter account [http://twitter.com/indie1031] and saw that Chuck P, who was much of the driving force behind the continuation of Indie online left the station two weeks ago and is now with KCRW.

What does this portend for the future of the web based version of Indie 103.1? Notice that there have been no posts since he left and the fine job he did while there as represented by the more than 12 thousand followers of their Twitter account.

 

[RBB05]

Just looked in on the Indie 103.1 site and Twitter account [http://twitter.com/indie1031] and saw that Chuck P, who was much of the driving force behind the continuation of Indie online left the station two weeks ago and is now with KCRW.

What does this portend for the future of the web based version of Indie 103.1? Notice that there have been no posts since he left and the fine job he did while there as represented by the more than 12 thousand followers of their Twitter account.

Chuck was one of the most hard working and dedicated radio people you could imagine. But the writing was on the wall. There are no sales people at Indie for the online, there is no long term upside, and the company could care less about it. If someone had the money and wanted the Indie moniker for it's station, Entravision would sell it in a heartbeat. The company is still bleeding. Their first qtr earnings report looked great. Up 3% over 1st qtr last year. Problem is they cut 6% in over head 1st qtr last year, with dropping Indie and company-wide layoffs, and madating 15% paycuts for all station management across the country, (but not corporate management). Wall Street looks and says, so you are up but not because revenue is better...but because you cut so much...can you keep cutting the same amount? They now have the #7,8,9 Spanish language radio stations. At a time when most media buys for Hispanic go no more than 5 deep, they continue to be in trouble. They are only beating the AM's.
Chuck is a bright guy and got himself a gig at KCRW. Indie was always his passion, as it was for most of the people there. Chuck is one of the guys who will do well no matter where he is.

 

[musicfan101]

Please start a new thread when reporting stuff like this! I thought there was some good news regarding Indie 103.1.

Chuck had known since this past winter he leaving was a possibility. It's great that he stayed longer than expected. It's great to see Indie still on, WAY longer than expected! Chuck is the man, and one of the talents you never hear about in L.A. radio.

I still don't understand with the way ratings are at 107.1, and with KROQ not being as strong anymore, I don't know why Entravision won't consider moving the Indie to that frequency. I am only saying this now because, the economy seems to be picking up. It has proven itself as a salable format for a while before the flip.

 

[davideduardo]

I still don't understand with the way ratings are at 107.1, and with KROQ not being as strong anymore, I don't know why Entravision won't consider moving the Indie to that frequency. I am only saying this now because, the economy seems to be picking up. It has proven itself as a salable format for a while before the flip.

One of the reasons 107.1 is in a low ratings position is that the format on the Spanish pop side is being duplicated on Exitos 93.9 and on the Hurban side at KXOL. Both stations are B's, and 107.1 is an A... a decent A, part way up Mt. Wilson, but still an A with less building and home penetration.

KYSR and KROQ are B's. A third alternative station of any kind is one too many. Not only would it be third out of the three, it would not make the top 20 in the market. And Entravision does not have other English stations to bundle with it, so it would be alone. Nor do they have the kind of large market general market experience that Bonneville has that allows, to some extent, having a stand-alone.

Indie billed OK when it was in JSA agreements. With regulations on market caps what they are today, who could a new indie bundle with?

The obstacles to this are just enormous, and taking 107.1 out of Spanish reduces the sales of the other Entravision stations.

 

[RBB05]

The revenue problem on Indie was more than just a simple "small audience equals low revenue."

The station, post-JSA, got a lot of accounts and alot of revenue that was more than its ratings warranted. Ever wonder was Steve Jones was all over Helio when it was around. Indie pulled in a seven figure annual agreement, more than any other station in town got for the account. Indie pulled in more than its fair share with a lot of accounts where the account was directly involved, and the station was not held hostage by an ad agency lacking imagination or vision.

A big challenge was that while the economy dumped, there were fewer companies willing to look beyond ratings and rely on the conceptual. Indie did as many promotions as any radio station in the market, and they did while EVC was hamstringing their budget. It worked when the advertisers were a little more financially open. It became an impossible task when they became a turtle, (pulloing the head in), during these economic times. Indie was also an expensive station to run. While Gato bills much, much less, the profit margins are bigger because the station cost so little to run.

Overall EVC lacks the vision for a station like Indie. Indie financially operated with smoke and mirrors, while the other stations were given viable operating expenses. The minute the JSA ended, Indie was on the ropes. The manager for the Spanish language stations had his eyes set on Indie's signal the minute he walked in the door. No matter how much the EVC stations fail, they will never go back to Indie.