CBS-FM: "New York's Home For The Holidays"

[scooty430]

What's missing is the data about the other stations. Sure, WCBS dropped in ratings, but isn't that to be expected? Didn't all the stations probably drop? The information you presented is incomplete. You would have to give the RANKINGS of all the stations before, during, and after to really have an accurate analysis. Tsk, tsk, my statistically inclined friend.

And if they "recovered," then isn't it ultimately a good move?

Lastly, if they hadn't done the stunt, would the decline have been even more?

And of course, we must mention Arbitron. They are under investigation for insider trading, and have had a number of problems with phony diaries, etc. If the station goes from 5.0 to 4.7 (or whatever) does that really mean anything in the real world? Or is it just that the five guys who have a PPM and listen to WCBS were on vacation that week, forgot the PPM at home, or their unit wasn't functioning? Is Arbitron just complete BS? It seems more and more that it is.

The fact that the station is running strong in the fall says to me that it was a good event. But more importantly, it was a good event in terms of QUALITY RADIO. No, it was a GREAT event. And that is what matters to the actual humans listening.

Maybe radio stations should dump Arbitron and simply ask their advertisers: "Do you get results when you use us?" If they do, then nothing else matters.

 

[oldies76]

The fact that the station is running strong in the fall says to me that it was a good event. But more importantly, it was a good event in terms of QUALITY RADIO. No, it was a GREAT event. And that is what matters to the actual humans listening.

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday, unable to tune-in that week. Yes, it was a successful event. Maybe statistically, according to David, it might has lost some ummph, but tell that to those that heard the special or at least segments of it. Most listeners are always inclined to hear something different every so often, so most likely, these folks enjoyed it too. I think they'll do it again in '09.

Going back to Christmas, do you think CBS-FM will do a Christmas song A to Z or some other type of special?
This could be tough, due to several popular versions of the same carols. Say they go on with this..would you expect them to play 4 or 5 versions of "Sleigh Ride" in a row by different popular artists, when they play the S's?? or five different Jingle Bells? Just a thought.

 

[davideduardo]

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday, unable to tune-in that week. Yes, it was a successful event. Maybe statistically, according to David, it might has lost some ummph, but tell that to those that heard the special or at least segments of it. Most listeners are always inclined to hear something different every so often, so most likely, these folks enjoyed it too. I think they'll do it again in '09.

There are only 100 shares at any given time. There are no more than 100 shares and there are no less than 100 shares. There are always 100 shares.

Share is the percentage of those using radio that are using one particular station.

So if a group of people are away, it is irrelelevant. The remaining persons make up the local radio audience, and there will still be 100% of them.

The fact is that during the July book, WCBS FM was much lower than just two months prior.

The internal research may say something else was at the root of this bad July, but otherwise we can fairly easily conclude that, as always, playing stiffs (low scoring songs) will always have a negative effect on listenership.

 

[davideduardo]

What's missing is the data about the other stations. Sure, WCBS dropped in ratings, but isn't that to be expected? Didn't all the stations probably drop? The information you presented is incomplete. You would have to give the RANKINGS of all the stations before, during, and after to really have an accurate analysis. Tsk, tsk, my statistically inclined friend.

Again, although I said it just a moment ago.

Radio "ratings" that are published online are really shares, not "ratings." A ratings point is a percent of everyone in a cell, whether they are listening to radio or not. A share is the percent of all radio listeners in a group (12+, 18-49, etc.) that are listening in the particular time range at any given time within that range, on the average. Keywords: Percent of radio listeners.

There are only 100 shares at any given time. There are no more than 100 shares and there are no less than 100 shares. There are always 100 shares.

Share is the percentage of those using radio that are using one particular station.

So if a group of people are away, it is irrelelevant. The remaining persons make up the local radio audience, and there will still be 100% of them

And if they "recovered," then isn't it ultimately a good move?

Yeah, over a month after they quit the A to Z stiffathon, the numbers came back partially.

Lastly, if they hadn't done the stunt, would the decline have been even more?

The evidence would support saying the decline was related to the festival of stiffs.

And of course, we must mention Arbitron. They are under investigation for insider trading,

No charges have been filed.

and have had a number of problems with phony diaries, etc.

Media diaries pop up a few times a year. They correct them... of course, NY has no diaries.

If the station goes from 5.0 to 4.7 (or whatever) does that really mean anything in the real world? Or is it just that the five guys who have a PPM and listen to WCBS were on vacation that week, forgot the PPM at home, or their unit wasn't functioning? Is Arbitron just complete BS? It seems more and more that it is.

There are thousands of meters in NY. A person who does not charge and carry is NOT IN THE SAMPLE on the days they don't carry. And unless CBS listeners are the only ones who take vacations, this is a silly point.

The fact that the station is running strong in the fall says to me that it was a good event. But more importantly, it was a good event in terms of QUALITY RADIO. No, it was a GREAT event. And that is what matters to the actual humans listening.

It took them two months to recover, and they are still, in October, running behind the months prior to the event.

Maybe radio stations should dump Arbitron and simply ask their advertisers: "Do you get results when you use us?" If they do, then nothing else matters.

Few advertisers use one station or one medium alone. There is no way to measure effectiveness, just reach.

And when there are no ratings, radio rates are decimated.

 

[scooty430]

I don't trust the PPM anymore than the diaries.

I think Nixon was never convicted of anything either. Also, OJ got off free a couple times. Just sayin'.

As for the A to Z, it did not run the whole month. If the "whole month was bad," (which is quite an exaggeration) you could hardly "blame" the A to Z. And again, who is to say whether ratings would have been even lower without it? I don't know if you've ever been to NYC in the summer, but the place is a ghost town. Nothing but tourists - the locals have fled.

Perhaps the typical CBSFM listener, is, could it be, an OFFICE WORKER? A person with a FAMILY? Someone who would probably be out of town that week? More so than other stations, thus lowering the share in relation to the others? Absolutely.

If I were them, not only would I run it again, I'd run it when everyone IS in town. That way more people can hear it. I'd promote the heck out of it, make it fun, have guessing games as to what song is next.... Wouldn't that be a heck of a lot more compelling that Louie Louie for the 1000th time?

Anyhow, for Christmas, they have traditionally done a Top 101 Christmas Songs, which is quite good. But 101 songs is not very many.

Would they do an A to Z? I doubt it, but it would be a neat twist. All the cover versions would indeed be neat to hear next to each other. I wonder how many songs they could use. As far as I know, it would be a new idea, and good counterprogramming to the All-Xmas station in town.

 

[oldies76]

Yeah, over a month after they quit the A to Z stiffathon, the numbers came back partially.
The evidence would support saying the decline was related to the festival of stiffs.

Songs are stiffs only if they are played during regular daypart rotations, when the regular listeners don't expect them in the first place. When a weekend specialty is aired or in this case, an A to Z that took about 8 days, then it is assumed that non-regular rotational songs will be aired, thus making it a specialty to begin with. Most casual listeners or ones with music interests will be drawn into hearing these specials. That's why stations do these..to attract new listeners and to give existing listeners something to enjoy.

Some may dislike them, but usually when rarities are played, most will notice and some will get curious and start listening. It just the way it is. I wouldn't call it a stiffathon..they include all the regular played songs too...just a mix David.

 

[davideduardo]

Songs are stiffs only if they are played during regular daypart rotations, when the regular listeners don't expect them in the first place. When a weekend specialty is aired or in this case, an A to Z that took about 8 days, then it is assumed that non-regular rotational songs will be aired, thus making it a specialty to begin with.

This is amusing. You really aren't telling a programmer what a stiff is, are you?

I was afraid so.

Anyway, a stiff is a song that isn't a hit... it may have been one in some other decade or century, but if it does not get favorable listener response today, it's a stiff.

Most casual listeners or ones with music interests will be drawn into hearing these specials. That's why stations do these..to attract new listeners and to give existing listeners something to enjoy.

Mr. Arbitron says it didn't help CBS FM in July. In fact, it looks like it may have hurt it.

As the saying in Spanish goes, "a monkey dressed in silk is still a monkey." The A to Z thing was 8 long days of songs that don't usually get played because they are stiffs.

 

[davideduardo]

As for the A to Z, it did not run the whole month. If the "whole month was bad," (which is quite an exaggeration) you could hardly "blame" the A to Z. And again, who is to say whether ratings would have been even lower without it? I don't know if you've ever been to NYC in the summer, but the place is a ghost town. Nothing but tourists - the locals have fled.

What part of "it does not matter" don't you get? Share is the percent of people who are listening. So even if half of the metro's nearly 17 million 12-pluses are out on vacation (a real exaggeration) there are still 100 shares. In fact, even if 95% of New Yorkers are out of the metro, there are still 100 shares. And meters that are not docked and not in motion are not tabulated.

Unless you have proof that CBS FM listeners vacation more than, let's say, Lite FM's listeners, your whole vacation point is irrelevant as well as silly.

Perhaps the typical CBSFM listener, is, could it be, an OFFICE WORKER? A person with a FAMILY? Someone who would probably be out of town that week? More so than other stations, thus lowering the share in relation to the others? Absolutely.

So only CBS FM listeners have families or work in offices?

 

[wmgcbs]

I am laughing so hard. The topic of A-Z came up just this weekend, and sure enough, CBS-FM is doing A-Z right now. Holy crap. Too funny. It seems like a similar list when looking at the first hour, but it has deviated slightly.

It should be interesting how this plays out, but I will certainly enjoy it while it runs this time.

 

[davideduardo]

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday,

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

 

[oldies76]

I am laughing so hard. The topic of A-Z came up just this weekend, and sure enough, CBS-FM is doing A-Z right now. Holy crap. Too funny. It seems like a similar list when looking at the first hour, but it has deviated slightly.

It should be interesting how this plays out, but I will certainly enjoy it while it runs this time.

No Kidding!! Just tuning in now online...never thought they'd do this twice in a five month span!

Here come the "stiffs" again during prime hours.....again David. Now let NYC and us oldies fans enjoy radio reality once again! What a coincidence.

Check it out Scooty430.

 

[oldies76]

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday,

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

I believe it began 6/30 and ended 7/6 or later

 

[wmgcbs]

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday,

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

It ran for pretty much one week. It started at 9AM on Monday, June 30 and ended somewhere in the 3PM hour on Monday, July 7. Hope that helps!

 

[davideduardo]

A ratings drop during the 7/4 promo and summer, could also indicate many listeners were on the road for their holiday,

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

It ran for pretty much one week. It started at 9AM on Monday, June 30 and ended somewhere in the 3PM hour on Monday, July 7. Hope that helps!

I am going to run that as a custom date range.... just in case I have to ask the waiter for a nice stewed crow for lunch.

 

[davideduardo]

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

It ran for pretty much one week. It started at 9AM on Monday, June 30 and ended somewhere in the 3PM hour on Monday, July 7. Hope that helps!

OK, here are the ranks. For 12+ during the 8 day run, #2 and 7th in 25-54.

In the prior 8 day period, in 12+ #3 and in 25-54, 8th. While the share differnces are very tiny, they DID go up slightly during the A to Z thing, although the increase in 25-54 was practically nothing and the change in rank has more to do with motion at other stations.

Oh waiter, one crow please.

 

[wmgcbs]

What were the exact start and stop dates of the A to Z thing?

It ran for pretty much one week. It started at 9AM on Monday, June 30 and ended somewhere in the 3PM hour on Monday, July 7. Hope that helps!

OK, here are the ranks. For 12+ during the 8 day run, #2 and 7th in 25-54.

In the prior 8 day period, in 12+ #3 and in 25-54, 8th. While the share differnces are very tiny, they DID go up slightly during the A to Z thing, although the increase in 25-54 was practically nothing and the change in rank has more to do with motion at other stations.

Oh waiter, one crow please.

Thanks for filling us in. I'm glad that the A-Z didn't cause much of a shift in CBS-FM's ratings. It's nice to know that a great specialty feature like this huge playlist from A-Z didn't hurt the station. I hope that it becomes an annual feature. I'm surprised that they are doing it again so soon, as it has only been four months since it was done over the 4th of July.

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for filling us in. I'm glad that the A-Z didn't cause much of a shift in CBS-FM's ratings. It's nice to know that a great specialty feature like this huge playlist from A-Z didn't hurt the station. I hope that it becomes an annual feature. I'm surprised that they are doing it again so soon, as it has only been four months since it was done over the 4th of July.

Remember, with PPM we have near instand feedback (although there were no weeklies in June / July) and decisions will come much faster by stations that believe in the system. It does not surprise me that the A to Z has come back for a weekend; the 25-54 did not show a significant gain or loss in July, so no real danger. And since weekends are a "disrupted habit" listening period, features tend to play better from what we see so far in PPM. An LA station in a comparable genre has gone to no repeat weekends and gained significantly in sales demos, as one example.

Was the A to Z weekend a tighter list when compared to the 8 day extravaganza?

 

[wgliradio]

This A to Z includes Christmas music in order with the other songs.

 

[oldies76]

It does not surprise me that the A to Z has come back for a weekend; the 25-54 did not show a significant gain or loss in July, so no real danger. Was the A to Z weekend a tighter list when compared to the 8 day extravaganza?

CBS-FM says this Election week A to Z will go through November 10th...so looks like another 8 day countdown or a few thousands songs featured.

 

[scooty430]

I am laughing so hard. The topic of A-Z came up just this weekend, and sure enough, CBS-FM is doing A-Z right now. Holy crap. Too funny. It seems like a similar list when looking at the first hour, but it has deviated slightly.

It should be interesting how this plays out, but I will certainly enjoy it while it runs this time.

No Kidding!! Just tuning in now online...never thought they'd do this twice in a five month span!

Here come the "stiffs" again during prime hours.....again David. Now let NYC and us oldies fans enjoy radio reality once again! What a coincidence.

Check it out Scooty430.

Man, I wish they'd given us some warning!

I'm going to record the whole thing starting now. GO!