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Channel 3.1 Dallas?

stationi said:
tested said:
I wonder how much it costs to lease a slot on one of these LPTV stations?
I don't know about the Dallas market but in New York City a lptv station is asking $40,000/month for one subchannel.

Is this what the TV industry has been reduced to? Broadcast spam? No talk of how we're going to inform and entertain the community with new, innovative programming. We're giving the cable companies all the ammo they need to fight carriage of LPTVs and digital subchannels.
 
I'm not sure how I see paying for a spot on an LPTV station would disqualify it from being carried on cable. By that logic, cable companies could deny a full power network affiliate a space on cable if they accept compensation from their network or have any paid programming.
 
I think there's a big difference between a station that runs a paid program (or a few), versus a station that runs all (or almost all) infomercials.

I agree with Fred. LP stations are gonna have a tough time convincing congress to give them must-carry status with a full slate of infomercials. It's hard to justify saying there's a public interest in forcing cable companies to carry that.

I, for one, would love to see more LPTV stations produce hyperlocal programming. But if they're not on cable, few people will see, the station won't make money and the whole operation goes under.
 
News, I agree with Fred too - I'm just saying that trying to write something into law about paid programming or purchased blocks of time could easily be abused by cable companies to knock out legitimate stations. Furthermore, some groups (religious, minority, you name it) would not be able to get some of thier programming on the air without buying time on an LPTV station. Is there community value to that? Sure.

Should cable companies be required to show all of these stations? That's where this gets tough. Cable companies argue that they have a finite amount of space on their dial in which to cram programming. There's a cost involved and no revenue coming back from these channels. With subchannels and lots of little LPTV stations in some markets, these cable companies could be looking at being required to run 20-30 channels like this. That would force many of them to eliminate channels from their lineup that have far greater viewer interest and generate revenue for them.

The LPTV operators will argue that they serve the public interest, but can't do so without being on cable since almost everyone watches TV on cable or satellite.

I see both sides of this argument. Finding a middle ground will be tough.
 
Herve said:
JHBrandt said:
Mako should consider re-arranging their channels, especially after they get around to converting KATA 50 to digital too:
KJJM 34 could have all the religious subchannels
KATA 50 could have both the music subchannels
K31GL 31 could have RTN and AMGTV
KHPK 3 could then be used for infomercials, Gems TV, etc.

If they leave one of their best networks on KHPK 3, I'll be forced to mount an antenna on the roof to get it. (And it'll probably still go out every time there's a thunderstorm - worse than satellite.) That's ridiculous: I can get everything else I want with attic antennas - even KXII 12, which is 83 miles north of my house!

I called Mako, they do not control the channel line up. That is up to the folks who lease the channels. MTV3 and Cool Music for example do not want to be on the same station; as they see themselves as competitors and do not want to crosspromote each other. Same for the religious broadcastors. It would seem to be a "first come first serve" coupled with how much a leasee wishes to pay, coupled yet again to what is available. Also, the telephone numbers that sometimes appear on the Color Bar subchannels are not those of Mako, but of the leasee who is looking to sub-lease.

I put up an outdoor antenna, to get away from the high compression and just general shody picture on cable. I look at these LPTV digitals as just added bonus. Cool Music for instance sometimes just plays in the background as if it where radio.

I understand what you're saying. Mako isn't programming these stations; they just lease them to whomever is willing to pay for them. Then the lessees divide the stations into subchannels, use what they want, and sublet the rest of the bandwidth.

Nevertheless, it makes for a frustrating experience for the viewer. One of the most popular DTV converter boxes (Magnavox, sold at Wal-Mart) doesn't let you add or remove individual subchannels (if you add 31.3, you get 31.1 and 31.2 too - even though I bet almost no one has any interest in more than one of these). It would be better if Mako leased individual subchannels themselves, rather than entire stations. Then they could be like the phone company: you could pay a lower price and they get to assign your number, or you could pay a higher price and pick your own number. (Of course, subchannels 3.x would likely command lower prices than the UHF ones.)

I don't buy that MTV Tr3s and Cool Music are that competitive with each other - they target different demographic groups, for one thing. But if they do have a problem having channel numbers that differ only in the third digit, they could always pay a little extra for the privelege of differing in the second digit instead.

Of course, none of this could happen soon. But as leases come up for renewal, Mako could renegotiate lease terms. Over time they could phase a plan like this in. It's just too bad they didn't foresee these opportunities earlier.

As for your outdoor antenna, it sounds like you put yours up for unrelated reasons - channel 3 was merely a bonus. In contrast, I, and I suspect many other viewers as well, have no need for an outdoor antenna aside from channel 3. As an incorrigible DIY'er, I'll probably do it, but I'm pretty sure few other viewers will go to that much trouble just for RTN. In fact, most won't even know it exists!
 
JHBrandt said:
bettertv said:
KHPK 3.1 will soon be presenting Retro Television Network (RTN)-www.myretrotv.com
KHPK 3.2 is currently presenting AMGTV-www.amgtv.tv
KHPK 3.3 is going to be something else.

AMGTV isn't my cup of tea, but at least it's also on 34.2, which is easier to receive.

Well, that didn't last long. 34.2 is back to color bars.

I assume AMGTV is still on 3.2, although I can't yet confirm it personally. Before I put up a rooftop antenna I'm going to wait until KDTN 2 shuts down at the end of this month, just in case that's enough to make reception of KHPK 3 possible.
 
Not sure what's on 3.2 right now ("One Last Ride" movie? credits are rolling as I type) ) but the signal has sure gotten a lot weaker here. Was getting a solid 17-21 sig, tonight a 10 at best with a lot of pixelation and dropouts.
 
tested said:
News, I agree with Fred too - I'm just saying that trying to write something into law about paid programming or purchased blocks of time could easily be abused by cable companies to knock out legitimate stations. Furthermore, some groups (religious, minority, you name it) would not be able to get some of thier programming on the air without buying time on an LPTV station. Is there community value to that? Sure.

Should cable companies be required to show all of these stations? That's where this gets tough. Cable companies argue that they have a finite amount of space on their dial in which to cram programming. There's a cost involved and no revenue coming back from these channels. With subchannels and lots of little LPTV stations in some markets, these cable companies could be looking at being required to run 20-30 channels like this. That would force many of them to eliminate channels from their lineup that have far greater viewer interest and generate revenue for them.

The LPTV operators will argue that they serve the public interest, but can't do so without being on cable since almost everyone watches TV on cable or satellite.

I see both sides of this argument. Finding a middle ground will be tough.

A short-term proposal would be that if commercials, including program-length commercials, amount to more than 50% of a subchannel's total air time, then that subchannel would be ineligible for must-carry. If under 50%, it would be eligible. That seems clear-cut enough to prevent abuse by cable companies. (I see some ambiguity in the precise definition of "commercials," but I'm sure the FCC could come up with regulations to resolve that.)

A longer-term solution would be technological: require new "cable-ready" televisions to provide separate RF inputs for cable and OTA signals. The expense would be minimal, and after a decade or two it would render the must-carry debate largely moot.
 
The wording needs to be broad enough to also catch the religious broadcasters who broker their air time but use different wording to protect their non-commercial status.
 
Is this station on the air? I've tried to pick it up, I've done quite a few scans on my TV which picks up digital channels and on DTV converter and still can't pick up ch. 3.1 and I really want to see Retro Television Network. I have an indoor amplified Antenna from Radio Shack to pick up the digital channels as well as analog. I can pick up the other LD channels like 31 and 34, but 3.1 is the problem I'm having. Any other options?
 
X-Man said:
Is this station on the air? I've tried to pick it up...

Nope. I can confirm not at this time. Don't know what has happened to it but it is not on as I type. ???
 
Megapsycle said:
X-Man said:
Is this station on the air? I've tried to pick it up...

Nope. I can confirm not at this time. Don't know what has happened to it but it is not on as I type. ???

Ok, good to know I'm not only one having this problem. I just thought it was weird that I was getting the other LD stations and not 3.1. Like some previously stated in this post that KHPK's programming should move to either 31 or 34 where you'll probably have a better signal than 3.
 
It's back up and on the air as now (Sat morning ) so give it another scan.
 
I was sent data on KHPK-LD last night, and it appears that their stream is rather screwed up. They're not transmitting the proper TVCT, which is the part of PSIP which maps the channels, they're instead transmitting an "SDT" which I think is either related to DVB in Europe or to satellite broadcasts. I have to imagine many receivers will choke on this.

- Trip
 
Hmm very interesting. My Samsung receives 3.1- to 3.4 today, but my Sony says "No signal". I was watching the Samsung this morning when I posted that 3 was back on the air. I don't particularly want to re-scan the Sony just to see what happens because then I would have to go back and re-delete all the unwanted channels.

Now if all the Spanish channels would carry a secondary audio channel or text in ENGLISH I would be more inclined to watch those rather than delete them, and maybe pick up some Spanish too, much like Spanish speakers can so with most English language stations. But I digress...
 
The Spanish channels save money on licensing by not airing English audio. To buy the English language rights would greatly increase the rate they would have to pay.

- Trip
 
Wow,

I didn't realize KHPK 3 was getting so much attention. Currently, I am running AMGTV on 3.2. I will probably cut AMGTV carriage in half and go back and forth between it and RTN later in the month or the top of May. I am in the process of relocating our server from Cedar Hill to our new master control. Once that is accomplished, programming from several sources will be aired (White Springs TV, America One, etc).
I would be interested in hearing from anyone about the reception on 3.2 and what will need to be accomplished to receive it. My e-mail is [email protected] and the office phone number is 817-297-2230.

Fred Hutton
KHPK TV 3.2
 
Your signal does not reach my home in Plano with an outdoor antenna, although there are others in Plano who say they are picking up the signal just fine.
 
I think I may be on to my Ch 3.2 reception problem. As soon as it started raining and the insulators on the power lines got wet and the line noise went away, I can receive 3.2 fine today. The AC line noise sparklies on analog Ch 4 are gone too. So looks like common old AC line noise may be the culprit. I believe susceptibility to electrical interference like this is why DTV pretty much abandoned Low VHF.
 
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