Channel 3.1 Dallas?

[JHBrandt]

With 20/20 hindsight, it probably would've made more sense for KHPK to have moved their analog signal to channel 3 and put the new digital signal on channel 28. Would've been easier to receive both signals, and probably cheaper to operate that way too. But we are where we are.

From an engineering standpoint, the FCC calculates that channel 3's antenna is only 333 meters above average terrain. That puts it below line-of-sight for many metroplex residents unless they have rooftop antennas.

Low channels can diffract over and/or around hills way better than UHF channels, but tvfool.com still shows a big increase in signal strength at my home if I can get my antenna 18 feet above the ground, the height where I get line-of-sight to their transmitting antenna. So line-of-sight and antenna height are still important even down on channel 3.

Nothing about a television station is easy to change, but it seems to me raising their transmitting antenna could be one of the more effective ways for channel 3 to improve their coverage.

 

[TexasTom]

With 20/20 hindsight, it probably would've made more sense for KHPK to have moved their analog signal to channel 3 and put the new digital signal on channel 28. Would've been easier to receive both signals, and probably cheaper to operate that way too. But we are where we are.

Unfortunately, it's not necessarily so simple to do that from a regulatory viewpoint -- a LPTV station can't just file to change to a new channel unless there is some outside factor that forces them to move (ie, they're on an "out of core" channel or an interference issue with a full power station). KHPK-LP on channel 28 didn't have any such factor to permit them to move their analog service to another channel. So if they wanted to go digital on channel 28, it would have been done in the form of a "flash cut", with the analog service being completely replaced by the digital service.

The FCC did open a filing window a couple years back for LPTV stations to apply for digital companion channels, and Mako (the owner of KHPK) used that window as an opportunity to file for channel 3. But they would not have been able to file an application for analog station on channel 3 -- only digital.

At some point in the future (the FCC hasn't said when), LPTV will transition to an all-digital service. At that point, KHPK will have to give back one of their channels, just as full power stations will doing doing in two months. KHPK will be able to choose either to stay on channel 3 as a digital station and take 28 dark, or move the digital service to channel 28 and take 3 dark. Hopefully, they will choose the latter course.

 

[TheRover]

With just the right "cloud cover", I get the channels.

 

[JHBrandt]

Unfortunately, it's not necessarily so simple to do that from a regulatory viewpoint -- a LPTV station can't just file to change to a new channel unless there is some outside factor that forces them to move (ie, they're on an "out of core" channel or an interference issue with a full power station). KHPK-LP on channel 28 didn't have any such factor to permit them to move their analog service to another channel. So if they wanted to go digital on channel 28, it would have been done in the form of a "flash cut", with the analog service being completely replaced by the digital service.

I see. I was speaking from a technical/engineering standpoint, not a legal/regulatory one (where I know far less). It'd be nice if FCC rules allowed more flexibility, particularly when dealing with VHF-Lo channels which are so problematic for digital signals. But as I said, we are where we are.

Some other LPTV channels got luckier: KNAV 22 got a channel 12 construction permit, and KJJM 34 originally had a channel 7 permit, although they didn't use it. I doubt KNAV will use channel 12 either, since it would conflict with KXII, whose service area extends into the northenmost part of the metroplex.

I have to wonder, though: why didn't anyone get channel 10?

 

[dhett]

Unfortunately, it's not necessarily so simple to do that from a regulatory viewpoint -- a LPTV station can't just file to change to a new channel unless there is some outside factor that forces them to move (ie, they're on an "out of core" channel or an interference issue with a full power station). KHPK-LP on channel 28 didn't have any such factor to permit them to move their analog service to another channel. So if they wanted to go digital on channel 28, it would have been done in the form of a "flash cut", with the analog service being completely replaced by the digital service.

I see. I was speaking from a technical/engineering standpoint, not a legal/regulatory one (where I know far less). It'd be nice if FCC rules allowed more flexibility, particularly when dealing with VHF-Lo channels which are so problematic for digital signals. But as I said, we are where we are.

And yet the FCC has been flexible before. In 2002, KUID-TV, a full-service NCE station in Moscow, Idaho, had been broadcasting in analog on VHF channel 12 and had been assigned a digital companion channel on UHF 35. They were given Special Temporary Authority to move their analog broadcast to 35 and to put their digital broadcast on 12, where they will stay post-transition.

Original KUID-DT permit: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=552869
KUID-DT STA on channel 12: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=606657
KUID-TV STA on channel 35: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=607321

However, if KHPK-LP tried to move their analog to channel 3, I think KDTN 2 and KDFW 4 would have objected.

 

[fredcantu]

I have to wonder, though: why didn't anyone get channel 10?

KWTX Waco is already DTV on channel 10 and their coverage map extends to just north of Cleburne.

 

[JHBrandt]

I have to wonder, though: why didn't anyone get channel 10?

KWTX Waco is already DTV on channel 10 and their coverage map extends to just north of Cleburne.

D'oh! I knew about KWTX too; just didn't think about it 'cause it's way out of my home's range. Out of range, out of mind, I guess.

That makes me wonder, though; if nobody got channel 10 because of KWTX, how did KNAV wind up with a construction permit on channel 12? Shouldn't KXII have prevented that too, or did the FCC just miss the conflict?

 

[Megapsycle]

A quick "RST" signal report: Channel 3.1 & 3.2 have returned to the previous reception quality here in NW Dallas, I've noticed since yesterday (4-19) the signal strength is now enough to stay locked in, and back where it was a few weeks ago.

 

[Megapsycle]

Oops. Dupe.

 

[TexasTom]

Unfortunately, it's not necessarily so simple to do that from a regulatory viewpoint -- a LPTV station can't just file to change to a new channel unless there is some outside factor that forces them to move (ie, they're on an "out of core" channel or an interference issue with a full power station). KHPK-LP on channel 28 didn't have any such factor to permit them to move their analog service to another channel. So if they wanted to go digital on channel 28, it would have been done in the form of a "flash cut", with the analog service being completely replaced by the digital service.

I see. I was speaking from a technical/engineering standpoint, not a legal/regulatory one (where I know far less). It'd be nice if FCC rules allowed more flexibility, particularly when dealing with VHF-Lo channels which are so problematic for digital signals. But as I said, we are where we are.

And yet the FCC has been flexible before. In 2002, KUID-TV, a full-service NCE station in Moscow, Idaho, had been broadcasting in analog on VHF channel 12 and had been assigned a digital companion channel on UHF 35. They were given Special Temporary Authority to move their analog broadcast to 35 and to put their digital broadcast on 12, where they will stay post-transition.

KUID, as you note, was and is a full power station -- different rules apply. Also, while the FCC has allowed certain filers to game their process for granting LPTV construction permits, they've not generally otherwise shown a lot of flexibility towards legitimate LPTV operators.

 

[JHBrandt]

Are the networks giving up on KHPK-LD 3? RTN is reportedly moving to KLDT 54, and today I discovered AMGTV on 31.4.

I've been meaning to put an outdoor VHF-Lo antenna up for KHPK-LD but it's rained and/or I've been out of town every weekend this month. Now it looks like I needn't bother.

Can anyone enlighten me on the plans for KHPK-LD? Should I go ahead and put up that antenna?

 

[dhett]

Just completed a road trip that took me through the Metroplex on I-20. Tried to pick up the DFW-area digitals from around the I-20/US-67 junction. Everything came in great except KHPK. Detoured down into Duncanville to gas up and eat (same thing?) and tried KHPK again. Nothing better than 25% signal, not enough to get a picture or a real transport stream reading. What a waste of bandwidth that station is!

Low-VHF LPTV is just a bad idea. Start with the reception issues of low-VHF (giant antenna anyone?) and double down with DTV and its interference issues combined with the cliff effect. Then for good measure, toss in the fact that you're starting with only 300 Watts, and the word "worthless" immediately comes to mind.

 

[JHBrandt]

Finally pulled it in (with one of those giant antennas) today. They're down to two subchannels: 3.1 was infomercials, and appeared to be a simulcast of KNAV 22 analog. 3.2 was Gems TV.

RTN is currently nowhere to be found in DFW. They're gone from KHPK, but KLDT hasn't picked them up as was reported

 

[JHBrandt]

A month agoi I finally worked up the courage to mount my VHF antennas on the roof. 3.1 and 3.2 are pretty solid now except during T-storms.

Shortly afterward, Gems TV disappeared, and 3.2 went to color bars for several weeks. But as of today, Gems TV is back on 3.2.

 

[DallasGal]

Anyone have any updates on getting RTN anywhere? I'd really like to see it.

 

[eskipper411]

Anyone have any updates on getting RTN anywhere? I'd really like to see it.

No, sorry. It has to have been a false alarm.

 

[JHBrandt]

A month ago I finally worked up the courage to mount my VHF antennas on the roof. 3.1 and 3.2 are pretty solid now except during T-storms.

Shortly afterward, Gems TV disappeared, and 3.2 went to color bars for several weeks. But as of today, Gems TV is back on 3.2.

And Gems TV is gone yet again. 3.2 is now just a green screen with a telephone number. Also, KHPK's analog station on 28 has been off the air for a couple of days now.

BTW, KHPK has filed an application to, um, rotate their transmitting antenna. Currently it's canted toward Dallas, which cuts out much of Fort Worth. The proposed pattern would be more like other LP stations. It won't make much difference to me, but it would let 3.1 and 3.2 cover both cities. The "losers" would be the few folks who live in the rural area south of Dallas.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

BTW, KHPK has filed an application to, um, rotate their transmitting antenna. Currently it's canted toward Dallas, which cuts out much of Fort Worth. The proposed pattern would be more like other LP stations. It won't make much difference to me, but it would let 3.1 and 3.2 cover both cities. The "losers" would be the few folks who live in the rural area south of Dallas.

As everyone who's followed my posting history on R-I, I rarely discuss anything beyond technical matters or broadcast history. But, Mr. Brandt, your post has provided an opening for an ``elephant in the room'' topic that I've been pondering:

At any given moment, aside from we few who are interested in reception and stop by just to see what's happening, how many viewers are actually watching those OTA low power stations (that haven't gotten cable coverage), such as KHPK?

Full disclosure: Long ago I worked for a radio station that had zero listeners most of time and never even blipped in the Arbitron. Because it was in a good size market, we made a tidy sum with wall-to-wall brokered programming, so I'm aware of that leased time business model. There are plenty who will pay to be on stage even if the auditorium is empty.

I do get the impression that KATA 50-1 (MTV Tr3s) actually has people watching it -- based upon the response to the Shout Outs. On the other hand, over the course of a month did analog KSEX/57 (now dark for several weeks) really move any product from its parade of per-inquiry programs? Access 34 One (on KJJM 34-1) seems to make some effort at a quality product for its niche and Lee Sherell mentions the tremendous growth it's experiencing.

We've got a large number of OTA choices here in D/FW...but purely out of curiosity is anyone (excluding JHBrandt, eskipper411, Megapsycle and yours truly) watching?

 

[arnoldevns]

We've got a large number of OTA choices here in D/FW...but purely out of curiosity is anyone (excluding JHBrandt, eskipper411, Megapsycle and yours truly) watching?

It's a valid question. I think the analog OTA stations really are talking to an empty auditorium. However, there were so many converter boxes sold and so many people have hooked up antennas to their digital sets that I think the DTV LP stations have a fair number of viewers.

 

[TexasTom]

It's a valid question. I think the analog OTA stations really are talking to an empty auditorium. However, there were so many converter boxes sold and so many people have hooked up antennas to their digital sets that I think the DTV LP stations have a fair number of viewers.

Or, to put it another way -- the DTV LP stations have a fair number of potential viewers. For some of them, I suspect that their primary viewership is a handful of TV hobbyists checking up on what can be received. Especially for some of those stations where the subchannels appear and disappear every couple months...normal TV viewers (as opposed to us) aren't going to go constantly looking to see what is on those stations at the moment.

It would be interesting to see what sort of audiences the more successful of these DTV LP stations can get, though. While I'm sure it is small relative to the full power stations in the market, even a small percentage is still a lot of households. Consider that if 20% of DFW viewers are OTA, and 1% of those viewers tune in to a particular station over the course of a week, that's somewhere around 5,000 households tuning in.

Can you make a profit with that number of viewers? Well, really, I have no idea...