And "Happy Together" isn't a happy song. Listen to the lyrics; the guy can only dream of getting the girl. The song is about as happy as Bread's "Diary," and yet people keep requesting it and dedicating it to their significant others. Oh well, we live in a country where there still exist people who think "Born in the U.S.A." is a flag-waving declaration of blind patriotism.michael hagerty said:
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Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
CTListener said:
CTL: I don't see anything in here that suggests she's saying no...unlike Diary. At worst, he's pitching and we don't know what her answer is:
Imagine me and you, I do
I think about you day and night, it's only right
To think about the girl you love and hold her tight
So happy together
If I should call you up, invest a dime
And you say you belong to me and ease my mind
Imagine how the world could be, so very fine
So happy together
I can't see me lovin' nobody but you
For all my life
When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue
For all my life
Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together
I can't see me lovin' nobody but you
For all my life
When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue
For all my life
Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together
Ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba
Ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba
Me and you and you and me
No matter how they toss the dice, it has to be
The only one for me is you, and you for me
So happy together
So happy together
How is the weather
So happy together
We're happy together
So happy together
Happy together
So happy together
So happy together (ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba)
She's not saying no. She barely knows he exists. He can't even summon up the courage to "invest a dime" and call her on the phone. The whole relationship is in his head.
CTListener said:
I see how you could hear it that way, but it's not explicit. You could also argue that they're dating and he's taking the step to the big "L" word. I see a big difference between this and "Diary" (where the protagonist tells us he finds out there's someone else) or "Just My Imagination" (where the protagonist admits "She doesn't even know me").
Thank you, Michael. That's exactly what I meant! I grew up in the 60s but "grew up" is the operative phrase here. If I'd been an adult, I may have viewed things differently. I'm aware of most of the things you mention and certainly more, as we moved later into the 60s. I certainly remember what I was doing when JFK(spending the next four days in front of the television)was shot and later, MLK and Bobby. I remember when LBJ announced that we were going to increase the bombing of Hanoi. My wife however is the same age and doesn't relate to many of these things because she says she was a kid! Pop culture is generally an escape from the real world. Starting in the late 60s, Rock got serious and began to be musically adventuresome, growing out of three-chord progression and into something that was perceived as more musical and meaningful.
oldies76 said:
I bought Whitburn's Top 40 book in 2000 and haven't reviewed it yet.
This has been an amazing thread to read, to say the least. What I'm curious about is the fact that a 45 year old today was 18 in 1986. This would suggest that a 5-year hyper focus of a classic hits station should be 83-88, but that's just not the case. Most Classic Hits stations are centered around about 1975 (according to BDS era maps). I guess the question is: Which classic hits stations are truly performing 25-54? And what does their era recipe look like? It seems the format might be about a decade behind. Part of the problem might also be the limited availability of true pop music from the mid 80s. Pop became highly produced and synthesized; does that fit with the sound of mid-late 70s pop? Or does it even matter since the music is played as an emotional connection, not a sound code?
finallyescaped said:
Along these same lines, I'd be interested from hearing from anyone in the know how the 80s MTV era British pop is testing around the country. WOGL here in Philadelphia is adding more and more 80s hits but hardly any of the Culture Club, Human League, Thompson Twins, Adam Ant variety. The only exception seems to be Naked Eyes "Always Something There to Remind Me" which I'm sure tests very well everywhere.
Oldies didn't become a viable longterm FM format until about 1987. There were lots of stations before that but they didn't stay around long because the audience was still too young and fickle. That means that at the beginning of its viability, 1955 was 32 years ago and 1972 was 15. Translated to the present, that becomes 1981 and 1998. This is clearly not a workable scenario and attracting any significant number of 25-54 year olds to it is impractable at best.
semoochie said:
And yet they do.
Because they're strong enough in the upper half of 25-54 to do well in the demo as a whole.
Remember, the goal isn't to be #1 in the demo, it's to rank high enough that you're an automatic buy for the ad agencies. Top 10 will usually do.
You have to forget a lot about what worked for Oldies to understand Classic Hits.
You're right that stations like KRTH abandoned Oldies after a short run in the 70s (for KRTH, 1972-1976). But I wouldn't agree that the audience was "too young and fickle". They were aiming at and getting 18-34 year olds. But they were stuck with a very narrow window of music. Top 40 was still playing Beatles and Beach Boys and stations like KRTH that had an AM Top 40 sister didn't want to cannibalize them (though that's exactly what happened when KRTH went AC).
When Oldies came back in '86, it wasn't a roaring success, either. At KRTH, it took Bill Drake, Robert W. Morgan, The Real Don Steele and a strong family resemblance to the old KHJ for it to catch fire. It was at a time when current music was considered largely unlistenable by those then-45 year olds, so they settled in and basically insisted that music began in 1956 and ended in 1972.
That was 20 years ago. They're 65 now.
But today's 45 year olds are a lot more well-rounded when it comes to music. They like current music (which is very accessible and listenable right now). Classic Hits is "part of this complete breakfast" and is no longer about reliving high school.
Programmers are steadily adding newer music into the mix, but it may well be that the best way to prevent another calicification is to stay out of listeners' high school years as long as they're enjoying music they didn't experience burn on in their youth.
OldNumber7 said:
It must be testing well here in Connecticut. Seems I hear a new British '80s track every few days on DRC-FM: "China Girl," "Died In Your Arms," "Do You Really Want to Hurt Me." Adam Ant just got a spin this morning. This music is from a very active period in Hartford CHR radio, established WTIC-FM vs. upstart WKSS -- and I'm not surprised that a lot of the music from those years is being reintroduced via the classic hits format. I'm surprised that Philadelphia is lagging ... these songs weren't big there?
CTListener said:
Worth remembering:
The percentage of people in the demo who still live in the same city they lived in 30 years ago is very low...worse in some parts of the country than others, but I don't think any region gets to 50%. I posted the figures in another thread and will try to find them and re-post. But no PD spends much time thinking about whether a record did well locally when dealing with music from that long ago. Too much of the market wasn't there then.
OldNumber7 said:
Not hearing much on our local stations....much of the 1980 to 1984 music just seems to be neglected. I hear more mid to late 80's than 80-84.
Adam Ant "Strip" and "Goody Two Shoes" is not heard. Many Men at Work songs are not played, except "Down Under" it seems. Human League's "Don't You Want Me" is played locally, but not "Fascination" or "Human"... No Culture Club whatsoever. A terrible representation of a fabulous decade around here in Colorado Springs.
I guess it depends on your area.
michael hagerty said:
Philly is a strange market - very parochial, and resistant to change. I'm sure they will add Thompson Twins/Culture Club/Adam Ant etc in due time, but for now they seem to still be very 70's focused with A LOT of 60's Motown & Soul (I like it personally - grew up listening to WOGL when they were still Oldies 98, and "Silhouettes" by The Rays seemed to be a power, so my musical tastes are skewed to love the Philly sounds and soul/R&B).
I'd be interested in seeing how the Philly area stacks up against others regarding as far as % of transients...
Hey, I coined a new word: Impractical + Improbable = Impractable! I was in the middle of composing a brilliant, yet humble response, when my computer suddenly and without warning, rebooted itself to complete an update. I'll just have to regroup and try to save this fine example of modern literature. 
Re: Local hits back in the day...I couldn't find the post I made however many months ago, but I found the original document. It was a study by the Pew Research Center in December of 2008.
Only 37% of American adults have never left the town or city where they grew up.
Midwesterners are the most rooted: 46% say they've lived their entire lives in one community.
The East comes next at 38%, then the South at 36%.
West? Only 30% have lived in the same city or town their entire lives.
But those numbers are artificially high, because they include 18-29 year old adults, 44% of whom simply haven't moved yet. When you get to 30-49 year old adults only 36% still in their home city or town.
Interestingly, for all the literary and entertainment stories about people itching to break out of their stifling small town existences, rural and small-town dwellers are considerably less likely to leave than city dwellers.
So, a programmer in Philly has to figure that 72% of his adult audience wasn't in town during the 70s...and that number is artificially low because it counts 18-29 year olds. When it comes down to 45 year olds...it's somewhere north of 75%. And then you have to factor the people who stayed but died, never listened to Top 40, whatever.
Anyway...whether a song was big locally when it was new is a non-factor. And it's worse out West.
Only 37% of American adults have never left the town or city where they grew up.
Midwesterners are the most rooted: 46% say they've lived their entire lives in one community.
The East comes next at 38%, then the South at 36%.
West? Only 30% have lived in the same city or town their entire lives.
But those numbers are artificially high, because they include 18-29 year old adults, 44% of whom simply haven't moved yet. When you get to 30-49 year old adults only 36% still in their home city or town.
Interestingly, for all the literary and entertainment stories about people itching to break out of their stifling small town existences, rural and small-town dwellers are considerably less likely to leave than city dwellers.
So, a programmer in Philly has to figure that 72% of his adult audience wasn't in town during the 70s...and that number is artificially low because it counts 18-29 year olds. When it comes down to 45 year olds...it's somewhere north of 75%. And then you have to factor the people who stayed but died, never listened to Top 40, whatever.
Anyway...whether a song was big locally when it was new is a non-factor. And it's worse out West.
michael hagerty said:
Who says all those people who've moved left the media market? Don't those "movers" include people who move to the next town over, or someplace 25 miles away, where the radio dial is identical? I grew up in two Massachusetts towns 40 miles apart; my family moved when I was 15. I listened to the same Boston stations, playing the same regional hits, in both. I would think that most -- or at least a significant minority of -- people who move don't go very far away. I work with a bunch of people who've lived in two or three towns in the Hartford/New Haven area during the course of their lives. The ones who are old enough remember the regional hits. I respect statistics, Michael, but unless the ones you cite define "one community" and "same city or town" as "one media market" or "same SMSA," then they don't prove your point at all.
CTListener said:
CT: Good points. I had to review the actual questions asked, and it's a bit vague...they ask if you live "in or near" your home town or city, without ever setting a distance. There are follow-up questions as to whether you have family within an hour's drive, but it's not clear where or if lines are drawn. Even out of state could be moving from New York City to Newark.
Pew usually does better work. I'll see what else might be out there and better defined. Census figures tell us there's been significant migration within our country the past 40 years.
At least in terms of availability online, the Pew study appears to be it.
But it was meant as a side note. Hit status 30 years ago, local or national, is irrelevant on its own. It's whether the song gets sufficient positives today. Even if only a quarter of your local target demo are from somewhere else, that handicaps the local hit in testing from a familiarity standpoint.
But it was meant as a side note. Hit status 30 years ago, local or national, is irrelevant on its own. It's whether the song gets sufficient positives today. Even if only a quarter of your local target demo are from somewhere else, that handicaps the local hit in testing from a familiarity standpoint.
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