Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[lost45]

Hopefully, stations will add a few more 'oh wows;' update their presentation; add cool 80s hits and realize that 80% of the hits from the 60s, 70s and 80s aren't played in their format. Someone has to do it!

 

[oldies76]

Hopefully, stations will add a few more 'oh wows;' update their presentation; add cool 80s hits and realize that 80% of the hits from the 60s, 70s and 80s aren't played in their format. Someone has to do it!

1 or 2 "oh wows" per hour should do the trick...Actually that percentage may be more closer to 90% within the top 20 positions for every year (1964-1985), if you're willing to go deeper.

Top 10 music, may be around 75% (give or take) not aired.

 

[semoochie]

...and so it goes. David and Michael must feel like they're pounding their heads against a brick wall! IT DOESN'T WORK! All it does is drive away existing listeners. After listening to my local Clear Channel HD2 Oldies station, I get a sense of the problem. They toss in songs that I don't know and I'd rather they didn't. It isn't that no one knows these songs but I certainly don't. The other day, they played a version of "Always Something There To Remind Me" that I'd never heard. It was by Sandi Shaw, a big 60s hitmaker in the UK but not so much here. It charted but not very high. If I tune in in three weeks and hear the same song, that's a concern. If I hear it again, it's a tuneout, even for a radio guy! What must the average listener think?

 

[michael hagerty]

...and so it goes. David and Michael must feel like they're pounding their heads against a brick wall! IT DOESN'T WORK! All it does is drive away existing listeners. After listening to my local Clear Channel HD2 Oldies station, I get a sense of the problem. They toss in songs that I don't know and I'd rather they didn't. It isn't that no one knows these songs but I certainly don't. The other day, they played a version of "Always Something There To Remind Me" that I'd never heard. It was by Sandi Shaw, a big 60s hitmaker in the UK but not so much here. It charted but not very high. If I tune in in three weeks and hear the same song, that's a concern. If I hear it again, it's a tuneout, even for a radio guy! What must the average listener think?

Exactly. Now multiply that by the number of "oh wows" that they play and you get a sense of the problem.

 

[oldies76]

They toss in songs that I don't know and I'd rather they didn't. It isn't that no one knows these songs but I certainly don't. The other day, they played a version of "Always Something There To Remind Me" that I'd never heard. It was by Sandi Shaw, a big 60s hitmaker in the UK but not so much here. It charted but not very high. If I tune in in three weeks and hear the same song, that's a concern. If I hear it again, it's a tuneout, even for a radio guy! What must the average listener think?

Sorry, but if you don't know basic hit songs from the past, then either you weren't paying attention in your youth when all these "current oh wow" songs were being played or you are not in their current target demo. Granted the Sandy Shaw song is a low charter (#52 in 1965), but the MELODY is familiar. And remember this, an "oh wow" song does not have to be a low charter, it can be a #1 song as well that isn't played much today.

The average listener won't mind much if the "oh wows" played today, were big hits in their day. Playing them TODAY, creates the "oh wow" reaction!

 

[oldies76]

Exactly. Now multiply that by the number of "oh wows" that they play and you get a sense of the problem.

Sense of what?? Playing a rarely played song, creates the "oh wow" effect to begin with. Playing an "oh wow" #74 charted song that no one has ever heard of is one thing, but playing a song from the top 10 is another.

 

[oldies76]

IT DOESN'T WORK! All it does is drive away existing listeners.

Maybe a few listeners....Playing "Brown Eyed Girl" everyday, also drives away some listeners too.

It's a two way street!

 

[oldies76]

Correction:
Playing a rarely played song, creates the "oh wow" effect to begin with. Playing a #74 charted song that no one has ever heard of is one thing, but playing an "oh wow" from the top 10 is another.

 

[semoochie]

A hit is only a hit, when it's the hit version. I don't want to hear Dionne Warwick sing it either, if it isn't the hit version. I used this as an example of a song that didn't chart very high and hasn't been played much, if at all, in over 45 years and not much before. I was trying to convey a sense of what it would be like for the average listener by using an example of a low charting song. For most people, "New Girl In School" or "The Little Girl I Once Knew" would create the same response. Even here, I'll bet most posters(in the demo)have never heard of those two songs but you're probably thinking "Oh wow!".

 

[michael hagerty]

IT DOESN'T WORK! All it does is drive away existing listeners.

Maybe a few listeners....Playing "Brown Eyed Girl" everyday, also drives away some listeners too.

It's a two way street!

You don't know how few or how many.

If "Brown Eyed Girl" drove away an unacceptable number, stations would drop it in a heartbeat.

 

[CTListener]

A hit is only a hit, when it's the hit version. I don't want to hear Dionne Warwick sing it either, if it isn't the hit version. I used this as an example of a song that didn't chart very high and hasn't been played much, if at all, in over 45 years and not much before. I was trying to convey a sense of what it would be like for the average listener by using an example of a low charting song. For most people, "New Girl In School" or "The Little Girl I Once Knew" would create the same response. Even here, I'll bet most posters(in the demo)have never heard of those two songs but you're probably thinking "Oh wow!".

I know the second song -- Beach Boys -- but must admit I've never heard, or heard of, "New Girl in School."

 

[semoochie]

It was a double A side with "Dead Man's Curve". I heard it all the time when it was a current. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og7LLZEAW4c

 

[oldies76]

A hit is only a hit, when it's the hit version. I don't want to hear Dionne Warwick sing it either, if it isn't the hit version.

And that's your own choice, does not at all reflect the opinions of others who listen to classic hits.

 

[michael hagerty]

A hit is only a hit, when it's the hit version. I don't want to hear Dionne Warwick sing it either, if it isn't the hit version.

And that's your own choice, does not at all reflect the opinions of others who listen to classic hits.

Well, I think it pretty much exactly mirrors the listeners who tune in to the classic hits stations that only play the hit versions and who have, in testing, told programmers the fairly small list of songs they want to hear.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Correction:
Playing a rarely played song, creates the "oh wow" effect to begin with. Playing a #74 charted song that no one has ever heard of is one thing, but playing an "oh wow" from the top 10 is another.

Absolutely. As I've said before, we're often getting stuck on discussing these far-off examples.

I believe Oldies has illustrated this before, but if Classic Hits should in reality be more focused on 1982-1988, then
there are still plenty of Top 10's neglected from that era. If Classic Hits stations are "wasting" time testing older tunes from the 1960's/1970's, how is there the time and or money to be adequately testing tunes from what should now be the core of the format? The argument is not really based on certain years or chart positions.

It would seem that Classic Hits is its own worst enemy. It allienates itself by skewing too old, then drops old tunes to drop the old audience, but can't catch up to where they should be in the demos. Either go all or nothing, but these (for lack of a better word) "bi-polar" acting stations are annoying. They shouldn't expect to be billing well or performing well in ratings when, it would seem, that not one Classic Hits station we have talked about around here has put serious focus on the range of years and range in the demo they wish to tackle.

 

[semoochie]

Unfortunately, if you focus on 1982-88, you almost have to dip into the 90s and then you're dead because almost nothing tests well. When it's time to readjust again, there won't be any wiggle room and it will all be over. The format will have to reinvent itself in another decade, starting with this century.

 

[michael hagerty]

Correction:
Playing a rarely played song, creates the "oh wow" effect to begin with. Playing a #74 charted song that no one has ever heard of is one thing, but playing an "oh wow" from the top 10 is another.

Absolutely. As I've said before, we're often getting stuck on discussing these far-off examples.

I believe Oldies has illustrated this before, but if Classic Hits should in reality be more focused on 1982-1988, then
there are still plenty of Top 10's neglected from that era. If Classic Hits stations are "wasting" time testing older tunes from the 1960's/1970's, how is there the time and or money to be adequately testing tunes from what should now be the core of the format? The argument is not really based on certain years or chart positions.

It would seem that Classic Hits is its own worst enemy. It allienates itself by skewing too old, then drops old tunes to drop the old audience, but can't catch up to where they should be in the demos. Either go all or nothing, but these (for lack of a better word) "bi-polar" acting stations are annoying. They shouldn't expect to be billing well or performing well in ratings when, it would seem, that not one Classic Hits station we have talked about around here has put serious focus on the range of years and range in the demo they wish to tackle.

You may have missed it in the torrent of posts, but I pointed out a few days ago that Classic Hits is in a very good position right now...they're playing music to the most desirable demo that the average listener in that demo has never experienced burn on because they didn't hear a lot of them as currents and had limited exposure to them as goldens.

Classic Hits PDs are steadily adding 80s product, but they'd be crazy to walk away from the opportunity they have now.

David has explained how it is not only possible, but no great stretch to test 80s songs. That's where the 80s songs that are being played came from.

As for Classic Hits being its own worst enemy, I think you're confusing Oldies and Classic Hits as formats. Oldies calcified. It was too old. Classic Hits identified songs that 45 year olds could agree upon as songs they love, like, or won't tune out, and it's working precisely because this audience isn't tied to a specific date range.

Overall, stations in the format are billing well and performing well in the ratings. It's an infinitely better situation than it was for the Oldies format.

 

[semoochie]

If that's the case, I would think that in an area with a lot of available cume, you could program Mainstream Oldies to the kids who grew up listening to those stations. It would have to be a tight playlist, geared 35-44.

 

[michael hagerty]

If that's the case, I would think that in an area with a lot of available cume, you could program Mainstream Oldies to the kids who grew up listening to those stations. It would have to be a tight playlist, geared 35-44.

Let me know if I misunderstand you:

You're suggesting a 1964-72 oldies format for 35-44 year olds who grew up listening to oldies radio?

 

[semoochie]

Yes, in my city, the Oldies station was top ten in 18-34 year olds, just before everything started crashing down in 2004. I figured that since you opened the door with 45 year-olds being receptive to non-age appropriate offerings that this would work at least as well. At least, they know the music, mostly by heart. We're talking cume, here, not TSL and think of all those stores that would have it on in the backgrouind. It sounds pretty good for PPM.