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Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

michael hagerty said:
When AC became "soft continuous hits" in the 80s, the solution became shows like Delilah. Tom's show is really an evolution of that, for a different, more upbeat format.
For an "invisible daypart," Mix 92.9 (AC station here in Nashville) actually DROPPED "Duh-lilah" after about 15 years, because (according to what the (female) PD said on their Facebook page in light of all the complaints) "Duh-lilah" wasn't getting them the ratings that they wanted, or at least that their ratings had fallen. There were complaints to high heaven on their Facebook page when they first dropped "Duh-lilah" last May, but there were still the occasional "what happened to Delilah" complaints as recently as December! (Which just points out that people really weren't listening to her. ::)) They replaced her with local announcers on weekday evenings, and Tom Kent on Friday and Saturday evenings. Kent plays '80s on Friday evenings, and party music on Saturday evenings. We actually listen to Tom Kent, especially on Saturday evenings, because it sure beats complaining about all the reruns on TV! I have missed Tom Kent ever since he was on the oldies stations (one of which is Mix 92.9's sister station), which dropped him when they changed formats. So they (Mix 92.9) have actually gained listeners with us on Saturday evenings. We wouldn't be listening if "Duh-lilah" were still on. I have made it a point to occasionally praise them on their Facebook page (while at the same time dissing the "Duh-lilah" complainers) for bringing Tom Kent back to Nashville radio. We need him!
 
firepoint525 said:
michael hagerty said:
When AC became "soft continuous hits" in the 80s, the solution became shows like Delilah. Tom's show is really an evolution of that, for a different, more upbeat format.
For an "invisible daypart," Mix 92.9 (AC station here in Nashville) actually DROPPED "Duh-lilah" after about 15 years, because (according to what the (female) PD said on their Facebook page in light of all the complaints) "Duh-lilah" wasn't getting them the ratings that they wanted, or at least that their ratings had fallen. There were complaints to high heaven on their Facebook page when they first dropped "Duh-lilah" last May, but there were still the occasional "what happened to Delilah" complaints as recently as December! (Which just points out that people really weren't listening to her. ::)) They replaced her with local announcers on weekday evenings, and Tom Kent on Friday and Saturday evenings. Kent plays '80s on Friday evenings, and party music on Saturday evenings. We actually listen to Tom Kent, especially on Saturday evenings, because it sure beats complaining about all the reruns on TV! I have missed Tom Kent ever since he was on the oldies stations (one of which is Mix 92.9's sister station), which dropped him when they changed formats. So they (Mix 92.9) have actually gained listeners with us on Saturday evenings. We wouldn't be listening if "Duh-lilah" were still on. I have made it a point to occasionally praise them on their Facebook page (while at the same time dissing the "Duh-lilah" complainers) for bringing Tom Kent back to Nashville radio. We need him!

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you're not in the demo that Delilah is brought in to attract -- 25-54 female. I haven't heard her show since WRCH dropped it here in Connecticut, but it seemed to me that it wasn't keeping up with the evolution of AC. Way too soft and way too few rhythmic tracks. The old "nothing but love songs" approach isn't attracting the "soccer mom" crowd the way it used to -- maybe they're used to hearing Katy Perry and Taylor Swift at their workouts and Zumba classes and the sleepy old Celine Dion and Billy Joel songs just don't do it for them now.
 
CTListener said:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure you're not in the demo that Delilah is brought in to attract -- 25-54 female. I haven't heard her show since WRCH dropped it here in Connecticut, but it seemed to me that it wasn't keeping up with the evolution of AC. Way too soft and way too few rhythmic tracks. The old "nothing but love songs" approach isn't attracting the "soccer mom" crowd the way it used to -- maybe they're used to hearing Katy Perry and Taylor Swift at their workouts and Zumba classes and the sleepy old Celine Dion and Billy Joel songs just don't do it for them now.
You may have a point there, but I once heard her play "Summer of '69" by Bryan Adams, so I believe that she had evolved, but you may be right in that she still had an image problem.
 
firepoint525 said:
CTListener said:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure you're not in the demo that Delilah is brought in to attract -- 25-54 female. I haven't heard her show since WRCH dropped it here in Connecticut, but it seemed to me that it wasn't keeping up with the evolution of AC. Way too soft and way too few rhythmic tracks. The old "nothing but love songs" approach isn't attracting the "soccer mom" crowd the way it used to -- maybe they're used to hearing Katy Perry and Taylor Swift at their workouts and Zumba classes and the sleepy old Celine Dion and Billy Joel songs just don't do it for them now.
You may have a point there, but I once heard her play "Summer of '69" by Bryan Adams, so I believe that she had evolved, but you may be right in that she still had an image problem.

Does she still play Edward Bear's "Close Your Eyes" at the end of the show? I always thought that was a cool little song to use for that purpose, especially since it wasn't a big hit in the US and wouldn't make the cut on any domestic oldies/classic hits playlist, even on the few stations that are still playing "Last Song."
 
I only listened to her show "in passing." I never really sat down and listened to her. My biggest beef with her was that she talked too much. Very soothing voice after a long hard day, but I preferred to hear music.

I never listened to her very much, but I know that at one time, they had Mix 92.9 on (over the in-store speaker system) at Arby's. They have since switched it to a country station, which is almost as bad.
 
RIN3GUY said:
Classic Hits radio needs to focus on the artists and the quality of their music, and not obsess over its age so much, whether it is older or newer music. The Internet is leveling the playing field, and radio should use this to its advantage. There is a great chasm of music quality which Classic Hits radio cannot and should not attempt to cross. 1993 is a great example, where things really scraped bottom, but that is just the worst example of what characterized the entire decade, and it happened again in 2001 and again in 2010 -- all of them horrible years for music! And the bright spots in other recent years have been few and far between.

The Beatles, the Eagles, Elton John, Diana Ross, ELO, Queen, Billy Joel, Stevie Wonder, Chicago, Eric Carmen, Foreigner, and Fleetwood Mac are all examples of artists that will never lose their appeal because they created a monolithic musical mountain which established a musical standard unattainable today. To supplant them, they will first have to die (which will generate renewed interest in their music, as always) and then their gifts can be passed on to others. But that cannot happen as long as artists such as these are still alive and well!

By focusing on the artist instead of the age of the music then you can start playing Eric Clapton's "Change the World" and Cher's "Believe" instead of arbitrarily limiting the playing of that artist's music to only within a certain decade or two. Artists like Madonna made great songs in 1985 ("Crazy For You"), 1995, ("Take a Bow"), and 2005 ("Hung Up"). If she makes another one in 2015, why discriminate against a newer song?? If they are a Classic Hits artist with a decent song, play their newer hits too!! And the same goes for those few newer artists whose sound is compatible with '60s-'70s-'80s music. What can perhaps also be done is "cherry picking" artists such as Fastball, Maroon 5, Spice Girls and a few select others as they come along in order to generate appeal for the younger age groups and thereby broaden the audience. Those groups sound just fine alongside the Beatles & Stones.

Agree completely. Creativity is frowned upon in radio, and it both sucks, and it shows. For example, Classic Hits stations could have jumped on the Beach Boys latest album or the new Rolling Stones "trend". The internet oldies station I listen to, plays the Beach Boys' "That's Why God Made The Radio" alongside all the classics....And it sounds good.

But no, they'll just stick to their tired old playlists. Radio needs help!
 
Biondi4Mayor said:
Creativity is frowned upon in radio, and it both sucks, and it shows. For example, Classic Hits stations could have jumped on the Beach Boys latest album or the new Rolling Stones "trend". The internet oldies station I listen to, plays the Beach Boys' "That's Why God Made The Radio" alongside all the classics....And it sounds good.

But no, they'll just stick to their tired old playlists. Radio needs help!

And we've now come full circle:


Re: Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?
« Reply #267 on: December 31, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: Biondi4Mayor on December 31, 2012, 04:45:50 PM


This format needs to be exectuted better. It cannot be strangled by research.

New York: WCBS-FM #2 overall
Los Angeles: KRTH-FM #6 overall
Chicago: WLS-FM #8 overall
San Francisco: KOSF-FM #9 overall
Dallas: KLUV-FM #7 overall
Houston: KGLK-FM #9 overall
Philadelphia: WOGL-FM #7 overall
Atlanta: WSRV-FM #6 overall
Boston: WROR-FM #4 overall

This is a format that needs to be executed better and is being strangled?
 
And WDRC-FM Hartford, with its new emphasis on the mid/late '70s and early '80s is fourth overall in Hartford with an 8.2 12+ rating, a huge number for a station that's been bumping along in the 4s and low 5s for many, many years. No further tweaking needed here, and no tuneout evident! Whatever oldies geeks and chart nerds (I say this affectionately, for I am both at heart.) have abandoned the Big D, they've been outnumbered by an apparent flood of new listeners. Hartford is now Market #52, but I believe it's still on the People Meter. I've been hearing DRC-FM at more and more retail businesses and informal restaurants lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the surge is being fueled by passive, captive-audience listening.
 
michael hagerty said:
And we've now come full circle:


Re: Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?
« Reply #267 on: December 31, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: Biondi4Mayor on December 31, 2012, 04:45:50 PM


This format needs to be exectuted better. It cannot be strangled by research.

New York: WCBS-FM #2 overall
Los Angeles: KRTH-FM #6 overall
Chicago: WLS-FM #8 overall
San Francisco: KOSF-FM #9 overall
Dallas: KLUV-FM #7 overall
Houston: KGLK-FM #9 overall
Philadelphia: WOGL-FM #7 overall
Atlanta: WSRV-FM #6 overall
Boston: WROR-FM #4 overall

This is a format that needs to be executed better and is being strangled?

Even if all the stations were #1, there's always room for improvement and listener complaints will never cease. Obviously, with limited song selections, repetition, tune-out issues and hearing the same Eagles music every week, your stations listed above will never be #1, but they can sure try. Your full circle has cracks.
 
oldies76 said:
michael hagerty said:
And we've now come full circle:


Re: Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?
« Reply #267 on: December 31, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: Biondi4Mayor on December 31, 2012, 04:45:50 PM


This format needs to be exectuted better. It cannot be strangled by research.

New York: WCBS-FM #2 overall
Los Angeles: KRTH-FM #6 overall
Chicago: WLS-FM #8 overall
San Francisco: KOSF-FM #9 overall
Dallas: KLUV-FM #7 overall
Houston: KGLK-FM #9 overall
Philadelphia: WOGL-FM #7 overall
Atlanta: WSRV-FM #6 overall
Boston: WROR-FM #4 overall

This is a format that needs to be executed better and is being strangled?

Even if all the stations were #1, there's always room for improvement and listener complaints will never cease. Obviously, with limited song selections, repetition, tune-out issues and hearing the same Eagles music every week, your stations listed above will never be #1, but they can sure try. Your full circle has cracks.

That makes no sense. Stations playing old music aren't expected to, and don't, reach No. 1. No. 2 is amazing, No. 4 is excellent, and in major markets No. 6 is very good indeed. Generally, an AC , a CHR and, in a growing number of markets, a contemporary country station or an urban will consistently grab the top three music spots simply because they play the music the greatest number of people want to hear. A classic hits station caters for the most part to listeners 35 and over who still enjoy the music of their childhood, teens and 20s. That limited listener base is never going to beat a strong listen-at-work AC no matter how deep its playlist.
 
oldies76 said:
michael hagerty said:
And we've now come full circle:


Re: Which is the bigger "tune out" factor?
« Reply #267 on: December 31, 2012, 05:04:53 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: Biondi4Mayor on December 31, 2012, 04:45:50 PM


This format needs to be exectuted better. It cannot be strangled by research.

New York: WCBS-FM #2 overall
Los Angeles: KRTH-FM #6 overall
Chicago: WLS-FM #8 overall
San Francisco: KOSF-FM #9 overall
Dallas: KLUV-FM #7 overall
Houston: KGLK-FM #9 overall
Philadelphia: WOGL-FM #7 overall
Atlanta: WSRV-FM #6 overall
Boston: WROR-FM #4 overall

This is a format that needs to be executed better and is being strangled?

Even if all the stations were #1, there's always room for improvement and listener complaints will never cease. Obviously, with limited song selections, repetition, tune-out issues and hearing the same Eagles music every week, your stations listed above will never be #1, but they can sure try. Your full circle has cracks.

CTListener pretty well covered it, other than one salient point: Without the limited song selection and carefully managed repetition (ensuring that the desired target hears what they consider to be great songs but because of their listening pattern never hears the same one too often), those stations would not only not be #1, many of them would fall out of the top 10.
 
michael hagerty said:
CTListener pretty well covered it, other than one salient point: Without the limited song selection and carefully managed repetition (ensuring that the desired target hears what they consider to be great songs but because of their listening pattern never hears the same one too often), those stations would not only not be #1, many of them would fall out of the top 10.

Only once have I been in a clear case of a tight, researched library vs. a large "if it was ever charted" playlist.

While the format was "classic rock" instead of "classic hits" the comparison is quite valid in regard to rotation, number of songs and such.

The market is approximately 17,000,000 in population, and the station I was involved with debuted with a 22 share.

We had about 500 songs in regular rotation, and about 150 more for two-fers and such.

Obviously, that kind of success invited competition, and within a year a low rated AC switched to the same rock format. But they had carefully monitored our playlist, and came on by boasting "four times as many songs as Mega" and had a library we calculated at 1,800 songs.

They played every one of our songs, and everything else in the genre that had made the charts.

Fast forward. One year later, after peaking at a 1.8, they left the format. We never went below the 20-share mark. More amazing is that we were sold out and the competitor had many commercial free hours and lots of other hours with only a few commercial minutes.

Post mortem: when we did some perceptual research, we found that the question of "who has the most variety" was the one we won with almost 100% credit... and we did it with 500 songs. The question of "who repeats the songs too much" went overwhelmingly to the competitor with 1,800 songs.

Variety = a bunch of good songs.

Repetition = "every time I tune in, they play bad songs"
 
CTListener said:
Hartford is now Market #52, but I believe it's still on the People Meter.

It is still a PPM market.

I've been hearing DRC-FM at more and more retail businesses and informal restaurants lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the surge is being fueled by passive, captive-audience listening.

A few years ago, I saw the franchisee manual for a large national sandwich chain. It suggested putting an "golden oldies" or "favorites" station on because the music was cheerful and not objectionable to anyone and provided a good mood for customers. It went on to explain that while some kinds of music had fans but also extreme objectors, that kind of music would appeal to the broadest variety of customers.

Although I don't know if the book was a regional version or the one sent to all the shops, the point you make about listening to a classic hits station is most valid.
 
David, I could listen to your station for a week tops, then you'd lose me with just 500 songs, even with a huge DJ personality factor. That's if I didn't die of boredom first.

WDRC has tapped into the pinnacle of music quality and artisanship. General consensus is that the '70s represent the greatest decade for music, usually slightly edging out the '60s and trumping the '80s. The Beatles were collectively more active during the '70s than they ever were in the '60s.

Music quality surged in the '60s and reached a high ebb in the mid to late '70s & early '80s not only for Classic Hits, but also for A/C and even Country. It would be very hard for a station to go wrong with such a focus. There are so many fantastic, worthy songs from that period that receive little to no airplay because the charts remained so clogged with other excellent songs for years and therefore they did not chart quite as high. WDRC recognizes this, and is evidently trying to bring great Top 40 hits out of mothballs such as these:

Wham Bam - Silver (#16, '76)
Gettin' Ready For Love - Diana Ross (#27, '77)
She Did It - Eric Carmen (#23, '77; Cash Box #15; Canada #11)
Star Baby - The Guess Who (#39, '74; CB #30; Canada #9)
When She Was My Girl - Four Tops (#11, '81; CB #10)
Shake It - Ian Matthews (#13, '77; CB #10)
Signed, Sealed, Delivered - Peter Frampton (#18, '77; CB #13)
How Much Love - Leo Sayer (#17, '77; CB #9)
Gemini Dream - Moody Blues (#12, '81)
Heaven on the Seventh Floor - Paul Nicholas (#6, '77; CB #5)
You Made Me Believe in Magic - BCR (#10, '77; CB #7; Canada #2)
Rock and Roll Love Leter - Bay City Rollers (#28, '76; Canada #6)
Ariel - Dean Friedman (#26, '77; CB #17, 5 mos. on Hot 100)
Come Back - J. Geils Band (#32, '80)
Romeo's Tune - Steve Forbert (#11, '80)
This Song - George Harrison (#25, '77)
Ai No Corrida - Quincy Jones (#28, '81)
Heart to Heart - Kenny Loggins (#15, '82)
Lovely Day - Bill Withers (#30, '78; CB #23)
Take Me Home - Cher (#8, '79)
You're the Love - Seals & Crofts (#18, '78)
Winds of Change - Jefferson Starship (#38, '83)
Say You'll Stay Until Tomorrow - Tom Jones (#15, '77)
Let's Pretend - Raspberries (#35, '73; CB #18; RW #14)
Hold On - Santana (#15, '82; CB #9)
Break Away - Art Garfunkel (#39, '76)
Deeper Than the Night - Olivia Newton-John (#11, '79)
Hope You Love Me Like You Say You Do - Huey Lewis/News (#36, '82; CB #33)
Get Used to It - Roger Voudouris (#21, '79)
Play the Game Tonight - Kansas (#17, '82)
Better Love Next Time - Dr. Hook (#12, '79)

Also, Alice Cooper (ALL of his ignored Top 20 hits from 1976-1980). And ditto that for Juice Newton! Seems like all her stuff gets ignored these days.

Folks, songs like these will liven up your all too predictable playlists!
Here's a few more obscure hits to check out. And some of them were
actually bigger hits than what their Billboard ranking suggests.

Don't Hide Your Love - Cher (#46, '72, Neil Sedaka tune)
Keep On Dancin' - Gary's Gang (#41, '79; CB #33; UK #4)
What Cha' Gonna Do For Me - Chaka Khan (#53, '81; CB #49)
Keep This Heart in Mind - Bonnie Raitt (#104, '82)
Turn to Gold - David Austin (#68, '84 in UK)

Transoceanic songs such as the cool one just above might also be considered! All the extinct "medley hits" of the early '80s are also neat. (Just a thought.)
 
Huh?? DRC-FM doesn't play those songs! I think it might have given a few of them a spin during its brief "your iPod on shuffle play" period about a half-dozen years ago, and maybe a couple pop up on the Saturday request show or the annual A to Z post-Christmas library blowout, but I can safely say that most of them have never been heard on 102.9.

Here's yesterday's 4-5 p.m. playlist:
Baby Hold On -- Eddie Money
With or Without You -- U2
Lean On Me -- Bill Withers
Knock On Wood -- Amii Stewart
Operator -- Jim Croce
We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions -- Queen
That Lady -- Isley Brothers
Rock This Town -- Stray Cats
Kiss You All Over -- Exile
Kiss -- Prince
Hungry Heart -- Bruce Springsteen
Show Me The Way -- Peter Frampton

Not a non-hit in the bunch.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Repetition = "every time I tune in, they play bad songs"

Not the true definition of "Repetition". The listener's definition is when someone tunes in and hears an overplayed good song 5 times a week.

Like I've said many times, EVERY song is playable today.....it just has to be managed correctly and played at the right time. Exactly why these other stations that other posters keep bringing up, like DRC-FM, Super Hits 106, Hippie Radio, CBS-FM and many others are doing well. Oh, and don't forget all the nationwide syndicated shows by countless others....

Those stations are enjoying their "wishes upon a star".
 
I am glad to hear that even a few of the songs I listed occasionally get heard on your station. My 1964-1989 station covers all the overplayed ones you listed and still has a bad repetition problem even without the more narrow focus, so it sounds like they still need to dig deeper and they will find gold.
 
DavidEduardo said:
The question of "who repeats the songs too much" went overwhelmingly to the competitor with 1,800 songs.

Highly unlikely, since it would take much longer to cycle among all those songs before you'd get a repeat. Now, if that station is rotating 300 bigger songs heavier (the top tested songs), than the other 1500, then there might be an issue.
 
1 to 2 p.m.:

Love Will Find a Way -- Pablo Cruise
Oh Sherrie -- Steve Perry
No Matter What -- Badfinger
This Will Be -- Natalie Cole
Come See About Me -- Supremes
Pop Muzik -- M
You Are Everything -- Stylistics
We Don't Talk Anymore -- Cliff Richard
Why Can't We Be Friends? -- War
Devil With a Blue Dress/Good Golly Miss Molly -- Mitch Ryder
Imagine -- John Lennon
Boogie Wonderland -- Earth, Wind & Fire
Babe -- Styx
Maniac -- Michael Sembello

Again, this station isn't wishing on a star. This is just a really good mix of mostly uptempo hits from three decades and representing a variety of musical styles, with two slow tracks (Lennon and Stylistics) for a change of pace. When I want to be surprised, I try Internet radio or Sirius XM, but to me, there's nothing at all wrong with DRC-FM for driving around the area or even banging away at the computer keyboard.
 
oldies76 said:
DavidEduardo said:
The question of "who repeats the songs too much" went overwhelmingly to the competitor with 1,800 songs.

Highly unlikely, since it would take much longer to cycle among all those songs before you'd get a repeat. Now, if that station is rotating 300 bigger songs heavier (the top tested songs), than the other 1500, then there might be an issue.

Not "Highly unlikely" but actual fact, as spoken in one on one interviews with actual users of both stations.

"Repetition" is actually an emotional response to hearing disliked songs. If a song you like plays again, it is welcome and not perceived as repetition but as a welcome event.

But when disliked songs occur, particularly with some frequency, the listener's emotional reaction is "every time I listen, they play those songs I hate." That's repetition... bad songs, any bad songs, with frequency... that's repetition.

A weak researcher would tabulate "repetion" and "variety" responses. A good researcher finds out what the listeners mean when they say those things.

"Variety" is quickly seen not to mean "only songs I like" and not "lots and lots of songs."

But you gotta' actually talk with the listeners in depth, one on one, over and over, to figure that out.
 
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