Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[oldies76]

"Funkytown" is disco. And while I can't really classify "Low Rider", I don't think that's funk, either.

Don't forget these early 80's disco tunes that sounded more like Disco such as;

"She's a Bad Mama Jama" - Carl Carlton (1981)
"Stomp" - Brother's Johnson (1980)
"Love Come Down" - Evelyn "Champagne" King (1982)
"Mandolay" - La Flavour (1980)
"Celebration" - Kool & the Gang (1981)


"Funkytown" is more like crossover between late disco and early new-wave / techno mix, not really classic disco sounding such as groups like Chic or Sister Sledge.

 

[firepoint525]

Not sure what you would call Hippie Radio. They are not quite classic hits, but they are definitely not "oldies." They are sort of in-between.

They are not in-between in ratings. They're 20th in 25-54 on average, and only slightly better, 18th, in 35-64.
Having a ratty signal does not help. The 65 dbu covers only about 20% of the market, so it would be reasonable to project this into a 3 to 4 share on a full signal... so obviously there is passion for any variation on the oldies and classic hits format.

Which may be why they emphasize on-line listening so much. Hardly a discussion comes up about them in which their signal is not mentioned. Their COL is Bellevue, and they broadcast from the cell-phone tower nearest to me in Pegram, so no signal issues with me. Everywhere I go locally, I have no trouble picking them up. And this includes other parts of town, as well.

The name sucks in an oh-so-embarrassing way.

I am not a big fan of the name, either, being a second-generation baby-boomer and all, but what can you do?

 

[firepoint525]

The name sucks in an oh-so-embarrassing way.

Such negativity. : A very good station that obviously does not appeal to you.
Give them kudos for throwing out the lost hits, something YOU despise otherwise.

I agree. The glass is always half-empty with him. Aside from that, I don't give a rats ass about the ratings, as long as they are able to stay on the air.

Just as an aside, Oldies 96.3 was something like #4 in the ratings here in Nashville, when they changed and became Jack-FM.

 

[firepoint525]

If my local Clear Channel station is any indication of the norm, they're just now phasing out the 60s and adding mostly early 80s. That's too old for the center to be 45. That's more like the beginning and way too old for someone who's 35! If this isn't true then eight years ago, we had no business dismantling the Oldies format by removing everything before 1964!

I have told you several times that nearly everything pre-1964 was (to quote the Eagles) "already gone" by 2005. Oldies 06.3 in Nashville was '60s-centered, but by then, they had Tom Kent on in the evenings playing late '70s BeeGees disco tunes that weren't yet being heard at other times of day.

 

[firepoint525]

Not sure what you would call Hippie Radio. They are not quite classic hits, but they are definitely not "oldies." They are sort of in-between. It is my understanding that there is also a Hippie Radio station in Chattanooga.

They are basically what oldies evolved into by 2004/5..."Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's." 64 to 79 playlist, still heavy on the 60's with a core from 65 to 74.
I remember when the format first launched - it's aimed at boomers who want to hear, but without the stigma of the "O" word.
The website boasts the station is geared towards high TSL rather than cume...which is not exactly a winning strategy.http://hippieradio.net/format%20info.asp

They promote themselves as being "anti-corporate," so they thumb their collective noses at everything corporate, although their studios are just up the street from all the Clear-Channel stations. ;D

No stigma with the word "oldies" to me. That is just a big Madison Avenue invention. :

 

[firepoint525]

Thank you, Michael. What irked me at the time was that not only did they pull everything pre-Beatles but a slew of mid-60s perennials as well. We lost the Four Seasons' big 60s hits in the shuffle,(replaced by "December 1963"), Gary Lewis & the Playboys and I don't know how many others. I was only 51 at the time. OK, if 45 is the core then there has to be a beginning. How does this relate to a 35 year old, who grew up on Pop and Hip-hop? Actually, there's one other genre they grew up with and that's 50s and 60s Oldies so if you really want to grow the audience then maybe that's the way to go, coming full circle. Oh, one more thing: 70s music was not generally fun. The 60s were and so were the early 80s but the 70s were mostly serious productions of Rock's new found direction. Did I mention that I love Katy Perry?

What market do you live in? I can tell that you took it pretty hard when you lost your oldies station. After we lost Oldies 96.3, I listened to Oldies 97.1, who just basically adopted the entire format, but only kept it for about a year. Then they flipped and flopped like a fish out of water for the next five years, so I eventually finally settled on WKOM out of Columbia, TN, whose signal here in the Nashville area was marginal at best. They were (and still are) programmed out of Dallas. Curiously, the only Gary Lewis song that they ever play(ed) was "Just My Style." Interesting because that was not their #1 hit. "This Diamond Ring" was #1, but I don't ever recall hearing it played there.

Eventually, their signal weakened to the point that I could not listen to them anymore (except whenever I am down in the Cool Springs area). Fortunately, Hippie Radio to the rescue!

The '70s were fun. It was those late-'60s antiwar songs that I found insufferable.

 

[bigtom101]

They promote themselves as being "anti-corporate," so they thumb their collective noses at everything corporate, although their studios are just up the street from all the Clear-Channel stations. ;D

I listened to them for a good 30 to 45 minutes last night - the music flow was good year wise, but the feel was off: would hear stretches of rock songs with a cut like "Sweet Soul Music" dropped in between making me go "uhhh....ok...soundcodes anyone?."

Not a bad sounding station overall, but the night jock did nothing but "that was....this is" and pimp out the number for the sales dept.

Personally, I don't find the world oldies offensive - hell, most people my age consider Madonna oldies LOL. Clear Channel has been using the word for station branding again (Portland OR, St Louis, Milwaukee, Albany), so maybe it has begun to mean KC & The Sunshine Band rather than just Elvis & The Beach Boys....

 

[firepoint525]

They promote themselves as being "anti-corporate," so they thumb their collective noses at everything corporate, although their studios are just up the street from all the Clear-Channel stations. ;D

I listened to them for a good 30 to 45 minutes last night - the music flow was good year wise, but the feel was off: would hear stretches of rock songs with a cut like "Sweet Soul Music" dropped in between making me go "uhhh....ok...soundcodes anyone?."
Not a bad sounding station overall, but the night jock did nothing but "that was....this is" and pimp out the number for the sales dept.
Personally, I don't find the world oldies offensive - hell, most people my age consider Madonna oldies LOL. Clear Channel has been using the word for station branding again (Portland OR, St Louis, Milwaukee, Albany), so maybe it has begun to mean KC & The Sunshine Band rather than just Elvis & The Beach Boys....

If that is Keith Harris that you were listening to, he is also their morning traffic announcer. And no, he really doesn't venture very far off the beaten path as an announcer. But he is actually better than the morning drive dj.

Be sure to listen during morning drive. Their morning dj insists on overtalking the intro of almost every song that he plays! I would love to muzzle him!

The djs aren't that great, but I only listen for the music. They are actually jockless for long stretches at a time, like nights, weekends, etc.

 

[semoochie]

When I said "eight years ago", it was a momentary brain fade. I meant to say "nine", keeping in line with the 2004 date that I had mentioned on several occasions. I agree that the wholesale changes were pretty much over by 2005.

 

[michael hagerty]

When I said "eight years ago", it was a momentary brain fade. I meant to say "nine", keeping in line with the 2004 date that I had mentioned on several occasions. I agree that the wholesale changes were pretty much over by 2005.

And that's about the time oldies crashed. I think what you were hearing was your Oldies station becoming Classic Hits. Happened the same way and same time at KRTH and KOOL. It was a format change.

 

[landtuna]

Oh, one more thing: 70s music was not generally fun. The 60s were and so were the early 80s but the 70s were mostly serious productions of Rock's new found direction.

Did you actually live through the 60's and 70's? Doesn't appear so. The 60's, beginning in the Fall of '62, were a time of great upheaval and strife. The Cuban Missile Crisis, the early riots of the Vietnam War protests, riots in Detroit and Watts and continued race problems in the Deep South. As the 60's aged Vietnam became more of an issue as did civil rights. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK and the political riots in Chicago. Black Power. Killings at Kent State. The police state mentality of Richard Nixon. That was a "fun" decade to you? This was the era of Protest Rock and a new outlet for Folk Rock.

The 70's were somewhat better but we still had the tailings of Vietnam, the gas embargo, resignation of Nixon following Watergate and record high inflation. Disco came along to take the edge off but it wasn't appreciated by everyone.

Did I mention that I love Katy Perry?

Nobody's perfect.

 

[davideduardo]

Everywhere I go locally, I have no trouble picking them up. And this includes other parts of town, as well.

Keep in mind that (based on the diary results that tracked at home, at work and in car listening separately) only a third of listening is in the car where signals can be heard at much greater distances. In home and at work is limited, at least, to the 65 dbu contour, which in the case of this station, only reaches about 20% of the listening.

Unless the on-line is a 100% simulcast, it will not be combined with the air signal, so there is a definite sales and sustainability issue there. Remember, if the station does not get ratings, it means it has few listeners and will not produce results for advertisers.

The name sucks in an oh-so-embarrassing way.

I am not a big fan of the name, either, being a second-generation baby-boomer and all, but what can you do?

I'm just surprised that a station with a marginal signal would further handicap itself with a name that does not have universally positive connotations and which may also be a severe detriment on the sales side. It just does not have the image that is required for either listeners or advertisers.

 

[davideduardo]

The name sucks in an oh-so-embarrassing way.

Such negativity. : A very good station that obviously does not appeal to you.
Give them kudos for throwing out the lost hits, something YOU despise otherwise.

I agree. The glass is always half-empty with him. Aside from that, I don't give a rats ass about the ratings, as long as they are able to stay on the air.

There is no negativity; my comment is focused on the fact that the name limits their appeal to both listeners and advertisers as it carries loads of baggage of the less than positive kind.

As to ratings: if you like the station, then you should care whether they get ratings or not. If they don't, it does not just mean they can't get agency sales... it means that they don't have many listeners and won't get results for direct advertising accounts and the station will have to change format.

Just as an aside, Oldies 96.3 was something like #4 in the ratings here in Nashville, when they changed and became Jack-FM.

But... when Oldies 96.3 went away, it was outside the top 10 in 25-54 and were dropping rather rapidly in the sales demos. While it could be said that they should have morphed to classic hits like many other oldies stations did, for some reason they did not do that.

 

[michael hagerty]

Oh, one more thing: 70s music was not generally fun. The 60s were and so were the early 80s but the 70s were mostly serious productions of Rock's new found direction.

Did you actually live through the 60's and 70's? Doesn't appear so. The 60's, beginning in the Fall of '62, were a time of great upheaval and strife. The Cuban Missile Crisis, the early riots of the Vietnam War protests, riots in Detroit and Watts and continued race problems in the Deep South. As the 60's aged Vietnam became more of an issue as did civil rights. The assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK and the political riots in Chicago. Black Power. Killings at Kent State. The police state mentality of Richard Nixon. That was a "fun" decade to you? This was the era of Protest Rock and a new outlet for Folk Rock.

The 70's were somewhat better but we still had the tailings of Vietnam, the gas embargo, resignation of Nixon following Watergate and record high inflation. Disco came along to take the edge off but it wasn't appreciated by everyone.

Tuna: We're talking about Top 40 radio records, not the front page of the New York Times. While both decades were a mix, the 60s were dominated by sunny pop. Apart from Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth", not much of the protest stuff survived into oldies formats decades later. Instead it was uptempo Beatles and Beach Boys and Motown.

But the 70s? "War", "Ohio" (Crosby Stills, Nash & Young's song about Kent State, which was May, 1970), "The World Is A Ghetto", "Freddie's Dead"....and the singer-songwriters could either be on a bummer (James Taylor's girlfriend in "Fire and Rain", Carly Simon's "That's The Way I've Always Heard It So Be") or so sensitive and beautiful ("Sunshine On My Shoulders") as to be maudlin.

And even the monster hits that people ended up loving (Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams", Eagles' "Hotel California, Boston's "More Than A Feeling") can't exactly be called "fun". Good, yes. Fun, no.

 

[firepoint525]

When I said "eight years ago", it was a momentary brain fade. I meant to say "nine", keeping in line with the 2004 date that I had mentioned on several occasions. I agree that the wholesale changes were pretty much over by 2005.

It was May 2005 when those changes happened here.

The glass is always half-empty with him. Aside from that, I don't give a rats ass about the ratings, as long as they are able to stay on the air.

There is no negativity; my comment is focused on the fact that the name limits their appeal to both listeners and advertisers as it carries loads of baggage of the less than positive kind.
As to ratings: if you like the station, then you should care whether they get ratings or not. If they don't, it does not just mean they can't get agency sales... it means that they don't have many listeners and won't get results for direct advertising accounts and the station will have to change format.

As long as they can make enough $$$$ to stay on the air and keep the bills paid and the lights on. This format just isn't ever likely to be #1 in almost any market. AC is #1 here, and urban is usually tops in Memphis, for example.

But... when Oldies 96.3 went away, it was outside the top 10 in 25-54 and were dropping rather rapidly in the sales demos. While it could be said that they should have morphed to classic hits like many other oldies stations did, for some reason they did not do that.

I believe that that actually was their original intent. But they were apparently offered the chance to jump on the "Jack" bandwagon, and did so. Meanwhile, Come-in-last adopted the oldies format, lock, stock, and barrel, including the djs and a very similar name and logo, and proceeded to run it right into the ground. They eventually took theirs to classic hits (after firing their djs and replacing the morning program with Bob and Tom), but as others here have said, Come-in-last can't seem to do anything right. They apparently even blew it with a sports format on one of their other stations. :

 

[landtuna]

Tuna: We're talking about Top 40 radio records, not the front page of the New York Times. While both decades were a mix, the 60s were dominated by sunny pop. Apart from Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth", not much of the protest stuff survived into oldies formats decades later. Instead it was uptempo Beatles and Beach Boys and Motown.

I am talking about the music. Never before, to my knowledge, did events in public life affect or produce so much negative music as during the 60's. The first half of the decade was generally "up" - I agree. But the second half of the 60's was very different. And I am talking about the records then popular and not how they play as Oldies.

Even during the darkest days of WWII you did not hear such negative songs as were played during the 60's.

 

[bigtom101]

And that's about the time oldies crashed. I think what you were hearing was your Oldies station becoming Classic Hits. Happened the same way and same time at KRTH and KOOL. It was a format change.

Amazingly, they (along with WOGL) segued nicely to Classic Hits while some decent oldies stations crashed and burned (KLDE, WBIG-FM).

The next evolution should be interesting to hear - K-LUV in Dallas has begun to use 80's JAM CHR jingles in rotation to compliment the music....

 

[michael hagerty]

Tuna: We're talking about Top 40 radio records, not the front page of the New York Times. While both decades were a mix, the 60s were dominated by sunny pop. Apart from Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth", not much of the protest stuff survived into oldies formats decades later. Instead it was uptempo Beatles and Beach Boys and Motown.

I am talking about the music. Never before, to my knowledge, did events in public life affect or produce so much negative music as during the 60's. The first half of the decade was generally "up" - I agree. But the second half of the 60's was very different. And I am talking about the records then popular and not how they play as Oldies.

Even during the darkest days of WWII you did not hear such negative songs as were played during the 60's.

Well, lessee here.....

1965, "Eve of Destruction". With you on that one.

1966, "Sounds of Silence" is pretty bleak. So's "Paint It, Black". "Incense and Peppermints" is more negative than most people realize.

I don't think we're talking about "Honey". My-baby-died songs go way back.

1969, "In The Year 2525 " is grim.


But that's up against "Sugar Sugar", "All You Need Is Love", "Groovin", "Happy Together", "I'm A Believer", "Good Vibrations" and "I Got You Babe".

 

[landtuna]

Well, lessee here.....

1965, "Eve of Destruction". With you on that one.

1966, "Sounds of Silence" is pretty bleak. So's "Paint It, Black". "Incense and Peppermints" is more negative than most people realize.

I don't think we're talking about "Honey". My-baby-died songs go way back.

1969, "In The Year 2525 " is grim.


But that's up against "Sugar Sugar", "All You Need Is Love", "Groovin", "Happy Together", "I'm A Believer", "Good Vibrations" and "I Got You Babe".

I didn't say ALL the songs were negative but there were a ton of them that were. And then there were some, like "Mathew, Martin and John" that were not necessarily negative but introspective.

 

[michael hagerty]

Well, lessee here.....

1965, "Eve of Destruction". With you on that one.

1966, "Sounds of Silence" is pretty bleak. So's "Paint It, Black". "Incense and Peppermints" is more negative than most people realize.

I don't think we're talking about "Honey". My-baby-died songs go way back.

1969, "In The Year 2525 " is grim.


But that's up against "Sugar Sugar", "All You Need Is Love", "Groovin", "Happy Together", "I'm A Believer", "Good Vibrations" and "I Got You Babe".

I didn't say ALL the songs were negative but there were a ton of them that were. And then there were some, like "Mathew, Martin and John" that were not necessarily negative but introspective.

And what I said was that both decades are a mix. But most of the biggest songs (and certainly the most enduing) of the 60s were fun. Most of the 70s biggest songs weren't.