Commercials Commercial Commercials

[Kent]

Look, no one is disputing the need for commercial radio to run spots in order to hit their revenue targets. I am only disputing the current trend to dump 10 minutes of spots -- or more -- all in a row instead of spreading them out over the hour.

Again, that has been tried repeatedly, and it doesn't work. The problem is listeners like long music sweeps. When you distribute commercials throughout the hour, you break up the music sweep, which is the reason people are listening to a music station in the first place. Plus, if you break up the music sweep when your competitor is in the middle of one, you've lost a listener for a relatively long time.

In the old days, when I heard a spot break, I stayed with the station because I knew that it would be over in just a few minutes. Now, when I hear a spot break, I know that it will probably go on forever, so I change the station.

Listeners really hate tuning into a music station in the middle of a stopset. By distributing commercials throughout an hour, you increase the likelihood people will join you in the middle of a break. Too many joins during commercials means you never become anyone's favorite. Those who don't mind commercials, of course, might keep listening, but they'll listen through a standard break, too.

On a side note, do the advertisers really think that the majority of the audience is actually still listening by the time they get to the 8th or 9th spot in a 12 minute spot break?

Most stations have various priorities for clients and their spots. As an example, one of them where I worked had 11 potential such categories. Priority 1 was an exclusive paid sponsorship while Priorities 10 and 11 were barter and bonus spots respectively. The other categories offered something in-between with agency buys getting higher priorities than local direct. Advertisers know certain listeners will never listen to a full commercial stopset. While some do research and others don't, those who want to be in a specific position in a break can ask for (and likely pay for) that. The local direct buyers also knew they were a lower tier subject to being bumped for agency spots. We occasionally had advertisers who wanted to be the last spot in a certain break. They thought being last meant people who had tuned out at the first commercial were likely coming back because the competition had probably finished its music sweep by that point.

 

[Yabadabado1]

Here's another gripe. And out-of-radio job for me [still in the entertainment field] local station kept pressure on us to advertise, advertise, advertise. Promised all sorts of promo deals, etc. remote broadcast, DJs show up to glad hand customers, etc. etc. etc. Owner reluctantly agreed, Ink wasn't even dry on the contract, had an event, requested a DJ to show up.....showed up, stuck a station sign on the wall and left, another big event, requested another DJ, they showed up stuck a zillion signs in the ground promoting the station, {WKRP brings you.....} parked a branded station van on the property, exactly TWO mentions on the air [he actually paid someone to record the station and go through it to listen]....YOU didn't bring nothing, all the money for the talent came out of our pocket. Asked them to come pick their signs off the property......crickets.....ended up pulling literally about 150 signs up and tossing them in the dumpster.Owner pissed off, called the station, sales guy would never return his calls, management refused to talk to him or put him in voice mail hell, just blew him off. Cancelled the contract [basically said "sue me"] and to this day wants nothing to do with ANY radio station and hangs up if he gets a call from any radio sales guy. And I assume he wasn't the only one as you very rarely hear and local business on the station anymore, except when there's a sports presentation. It just floored me that they would treat a customer that way.

 

[b-turner]

Yabadabado1 I hope you don't assume every station is that way.

Those are folks building their own casket. They are what's wrong with radio.

 

[thenetwork]

Here's another BAD example of grouping commercials in a stopset -- whether it's a 3 minute or 10 minute break...

I hear this on the local level all the way up to the national level...

There are a lot of live reads and recorded spots which DON'T use any production music or product jingles in their spot. All it is is Joe AirTalent reading from a script.

Then another spot airs sans "background noise" and all of a sudden, Joe AirTalent is now talking about a different (or worse,..a SIMILAR) advertiser.

As an advertiser, first off shame on you for being such a tight wad and not going the step further and requiring background music to better differentiate your Joe AirTalent spot and the next Joe AirTalent spot for another advertiser.

As a listener, I don't think when you hear 2+ spots in a row spoken by the same voice, you are going to remember both or all individual advertisers in the stopset nor will you remember which advertiser has which sale, service or phone number -- it sounds like just one long mega-spot or infomercial.b Does the advertiser really want that outcome? For this, the blame goes to the individual station's traffic department for not separating competitor spots nor separating spots read by the same person.

And if you are a real cheap-ass station with only one voicer for spots, and you're not inclined to make each advertiser sound unique in a stopset, then you deserve to not earn your potential in ad dollars.

Just because club DJ's can mix/segue songs seamlessly into one set doesn't mean a radio station should do it with advertisers.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't think when you hear 2+ spots in a row spoken by the same voice, you are going to remember both or all individual advertisers in the stopset nor will you remember which advertiser has which sale, service or phone number -- it sounds like just one long mega-spot or infomercial.

This is why advertisers prefer to hand a station a fully produced spot, rather than just give them script without any approval rights.

The advertiser gets to provide a lot of input in how their spot is scheduled. Here's an example:

Cannot air in or adjacent to controversial programming.
Please maintain max separation between commercial
airings and between competitive advertisers or
products. Please do not air spots after 8PM.

 

[Yabadabado1]

Yabadabado1 I hope you don't assume every station is that way.

Those are folks building their own casket. They are what's wrong with radio.

I DON'T think every station is that way. But to non-radio people [like my former boss], he does. One station group has basically caused him to tar & feather ALL radio stations into one lump so he won't deal with ANY station that comes a calling. So ONE station [group or employee] is causing damage to ALL station groups or "mom & pop" stations....which probably are hanging on by their fingernails. I mostly worked overnights so I rarely saw any sales guys or gals but every once in a while I'd hear a slight commotion and peek out the studio door to see a sales person furiously writing up copy from a late night sale he had made while schmoozing a client at a bar or somewhere else.....and from what I heard you hardly ever saw a sales guy at the station because they were out pounding the pavement for business. I don't remember which radio group it was but when they were sold to a new corporation they reversed the sales commission from 80/20 [80 for the sales guy/20 for the station] to 20/80. Many of the people left immediately while you'd find the rest sitting around the office and no longer busting their butts...but if they saw the boss coming so they picked up a phone and pretended they'd be making a sale. Wasn't long before they were all gone and that was being told to me by a former sales guy who finally got disgusted enough that he left the radio business in his rear view mirror.
Oh, if I had been the station owner/GM/PD/janitor and I heard of a sales guy not returning a disgruntled customer's call, he'd be a former sales guy before I could finish snapping my fingers. I may not like a zillion commercials in a row but I'd like enough of them for me to continue getting paid......and if there were any Dick Orkin/Stan Freberg type commercials being made today, I'd sit through all of them, even 20 in a row. Their stuff was funny and very entertaining.

 

[Yabadabado1]

This is why advertisers prefer to hand a station a fully produced spot, rather than just give them script without any approval rights.

The advertiser gets to provide a lot of input in how their spot is scheduled. Here's an example:

I think that's flown out the window. I cannot tell how many spots, TV and radio, where I've heard an ad for, let's say local KIA car dealer, followed by an ad for another car company or say, Comet cleanser followed by an ad for AJAX cleanser. My biggest gripe: Ad, say again, for local KIA followed by an ad for, say Preparation H, followed by the same KIA ad, two more commercials and then the SAME KIA ad for a third time. Makes me think they couldn't get enough advertisers for their station so, in desperation, they just scheduled the same ad to fill out the spot break. Probably wrong about that but that just what it seems like to me. Or maybe the KIA ads are so bland they need to repeat them that often to get them to stick in their customers mind.

 

[TheBigA]

I think that's flown out the window.

That's from last week's contract. So no, it's current.

Makes me think they couldn't get enough advertisers for their station so, in desperation, they just scheduled the same ad to fill out the spot break.

Nope every spot is scheduled. Advertisers are buying repetition. They want to beat their brand into your brain. They buy :10s that they schedule several times in the same cluster. It's their money.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Nope every spot is scheduled. Advertisers are buying repetition. They want to beat their brand into your brain. They buy :10s that they schedule several times in the same cluster. It's their money.

Or the traffic computer doesn't have the flags set properly for type of advertiser and/or separation of a client's spot.

 

[Kent]

Here's another gripe. And out-of-radio job for me [still in the entertainment field] local station kept pressure on us to advertise, advertise, advertise. Promised all sorts of promo deals, etc. remote broadcast, DJs show up to glad hand customers, etc. etc. etc. Owner reluctantly agreed, Ink wasn't even dry on the contract, had an event, requested a DJ to show up.....showed up, stuck a station sign on the wall and left, another big event, requested another DJ, they showed up stuck a zillion signs in the ground promoting the station, {WKRP brings you.....} parked a branded station van on the property, exactly TWO mentions on the air [he actually paid someone to record the station and go through it to listen]....YOU didn't bring nothing, all the money for the talent came out of our pocket. Asked them to come pick their signs off the property......crickets.....ended up pulling literally about 150 signs up and tossing them in the dumpster.Owner pissed off, called the station, sales guy would never return his calls, management refused to talk to him or put him in voice mail hell, just blew him off. Cancelled the contract [basically said "sue me"] and to this day wants nothing to do with ANY radio station and hangs up if he gets a call from any radio sales guy. And I assume he wasn't the only one as you very rarely hear and local business on the station anymore, except when there's a sports presentation. It just floored me that they would treat a customer that way.

That is both broadcasting and marketing malpractice.

The stations where I've worked occasionally prerecorded remote breaks (usually because they were putting a customer on and didn’t know what that person might actually say), but the jock was always supposed to be at the remote the entire time. The jock was supposed to show up at least 15 minutes prior to the top of the first hour of the broadcast. Unless that jock was also a manager, such as PD, the salesperson who sold the remote or a member of the promotions staff was to be there, too. For remote broadcasts, most places where I worked also promised the client would get the cellphone number for the salesperson or the sales manager, the promotions director, and/or the PD.

In addition to the required number of remote breaks, we were usually required to mention the remote at least twice an hour in the two hours before the remote.

I’ve had a few remotes that have gone badly, including one from a motorcycle dealer where someone revved his motorcycle right behind me as I was talking during the first break. It sounded terrible. You couldn’t even hear me over the noise. I was also at a bar remote where a fight broke out and you could clearly hear the situation escalating, including a few words and phrases you're not supposed to say on the radio, in the background during a break. Having a sales or promotions person there was important. That was the person who defused the situation and got everyone back on track and in harmony. Those were also some other reasons we sometimes prerecorded our breaks, especially if the clients were agreeable. To the customers already there, you were live when you were talking about the event. The customers not yet there just assumed you were live. Once in awhile, we'd have someone who would ask, and those people always understood when you explained that things happen when you’re not in the studio.

 

[Yabadabado1]

That's from last week's contract. So no, it's current.



Nope every spot is scheduled. Advertisers are buying repetition. They want to beat their brand into your brain. They buy :10s that they schedule several times in the same cluster. It's their money.

They are not 10 second spots. Fully 30 to 60 seconds

 

[Yabadabado1]

Or the traffic computer doesn't have the flags set properly for type of advertiser and/or separation of a client's spot.

I think some stations are still using a commodore 64 or maybe this:

 

[TheBigA]

They are not 10 second spots. Fully 30 to 60 seconds

That's not the point. The point is the repetition. They know what their buying.

 

[Tibbs4]

Anybody else feel like we have again entered into the radio twilight zone?


Back in 13 minutes....don't worry about the dead air just because we didn't fill the spots with pesky ads. We can't afford a staff to sell any ads that people would hate anyway. Oh and we'll be turning off the lights Sunday night at midnight. We're sure you'll find plenty of better options elsewhere. Back to regularly programming bad music that everyone hates.... but it's great fun hang out on here because "radio is dead and sucks."

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

That's from last week's contract. So no, it's current.



Nope every spot is scheduled. Advertisers are buying repetition. They want to beat their brand into your brain. They buy :10s that they schedule several times in the same cluster. It's their money.

I've even heard them do instant-repeat. The ad finishes playing and they play it again.

 

[b-turner]

The very thing complained about is the success of radio doing this. If clients don't get results from radio advertising they stop. Obviously they are still filling stop-sets, so results are there. Complain all you want but you are complaining about something advertisers find works for them (and radio stations too).

 

[K.M. Richards]

That is both broadcasting and marketing malpractice.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

The stations where I've worked occasionally prerecorded remote breaks (usually because they were putting a customer on and didn’t know what that person might actually say),

[edit]

I’ve had a few remotes that have gone badly, including one from a motorcycle dealer where someone revved his motorcycle right behind me as I was talking during the first break. It sounded terrible. You couldn’t even hear me over the noise. I was also at a bar remote where a fight broke out and you could clearly hear the situation escalating, including a few words and phrases you're not supposed to say on the radio, in the background during a break.

Those "remotes gone bad" examples resonate with me as good reasons to do remote breaks on a few minutes' delay. As you said later in your post, the customers at the location don't know that you aren't live, doing them a few minutes ahead of air lets you start over in extreme circumstances such as the ones you describe, and the listeners certainly aren't going to notice.

That said, I remember a station I worked for in 1984 where a salesperson sold a remote to a pumpkin patch. At a location with no phone. And the local telco wanted more to run a line in there than the entire billing for the remote. And cell phones were in their infancy so you know we didn't have one of those. So our morning guy went out there an hour or so ahead of time, recorded all of the breaks on a portable cassette machine (including interviews with the owner and a couple of customers), then had another station staffer drive back to the studios with the tape. Said morning guy -- who was a consummate pro -- stayed at the pumpkin patch during the remote hours so it wouldn't "look" like we weren't actually there.

But boy, did the GM tell off that AE afterwards ...

 

[b-turner]

A station I was working for was in competition with a new arrival in town. When we had a live remote, our competitor would offer to do a remote free at the same time. They'd park the van next to ours and blast their sound system during our breaks saying their station identity (Power 96) over and over so it was on our breaks. We'd record the breaks in our van before they were broadcast, then pretend to be live while the break aired on the station. Naturally the clients saw what they did and in a few weeks they were being booted from the property by the owner of the business who didn't appreciate them playing dirty.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Naturally the clients saw what they did and in a few weeks they were being booted from the property by the owner of the business who didn't appreciate them playing dirty.

Serves them right. They essentially removed any possibility of getting any paid business from the client.

 

[Santa fe]

Some of the most fun I've had in radio was doing remotes on a local station. Perhaps it was the timbre of the times in the '80's, but we never worried about bad things happening or something inappropriate going out. Our station station had a Marti Unit mounted in our truck, with a small subtransmitter I carried that gave us portable but studio quality sound. I broadcast live flying in a hot air balloon while our manager drove the truck below to keep the link. I rode horseback around the 4-H paddock at the fair while interviewing a fair executive riding alongside. I broadcast live from a bar on St. Patrick's day, from atop the ferris wheel at a church festival, from restaurants, hardware stores, school events, any number of places and never had any content or behavior problems. And all this was sponsored. In fact, fair remote packages, high school sports and political ads were our three single largest sources of revenue in a year.
Today, technology with cell phones and other equipment make remotes easier and sometimes as good sounding, but the pandemic put a halt to a lot of that, and I don't know how much advertisers feel remotes really help them now.