Cumulus dumping classic rock fromat...

[jeffdfw]

...in Houston (KIOL). Supposedly to KHJK JACK FM. Flip supposedly happening tomorrow (Friday). Wonder if they will ever do anything with the Bone here?

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Are you kidding? They already have their jocks at minimum wage and promotions department working for food stamps. What more do you want? Traffic and sales panhandling? Oh wait, too sensitive of an issue as we have learned in the past. ;D

 

[TheRover]

...in Houston (KIOL). Supposedly to KHJK JACK FM. Flip supposedly happening tomorrow (Friday). Wonder if they will ever do anything with the Bone here?

Whatever makes the corporate advertisers happy.

THAT... is the true Bottom Line for those folks !

Your and my Happiness is not part of the equation.

A sucker is born every minute, P T Barnum once said.... Or, as I would like to say.... A shallow music listener is born every minute ! ! And aren't the corporate advertisers elated about those folks !!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

...in Houston (KIOL). Supposedly to KHJK JACK FM. Flip supposedly happening tomorrow (Friday). Wonder if they will ever do anything with the Bone here?

If they do - it will be even more incentive to move KMAD into the market. Not that they aren't making inroads into Collin county as it is ---

 

[txchipk]

...in Houston (KIOL). Supposedly to KHJK JACK FM. Flip supposedly happening tomorrow (Friday). Wonder if they will ever do anything with the Bone here?

Whatever makes the corporate advertisers happy.

THAT... is the true Bottom Line for those folks !

Your and my Happiness is not part of the equation.

A sucker is born every minute, P T Barnum once said.... Or, as I would like to say.... A shallow music listener is born every minute ! ! And aren't the corporate advertisers elated about those folks !!

Out of curiosity, when did radio station owners, corporate or mom-and-pop outfits, not care about making a profit? When were most radio stations programmed strictly for the enjoyment of listeners without a care in the world about pleasing sponsors?

 

[Robert Bass]

OK I gotta ask this question...

What is a "fromat" ???

;D

R

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Which leads to, "How many of us wondered the same question but wanted to take the high road?"

I guess you save gas taking the road more traveled, eh Bass? ;D

 

[Robert Bass]

Which leads to, "How many of us wondered the same question but wanted to take the high road?"

I guess you save gas taking the road more traveled, eh Bass? ;D

How would I know? I can't drive. :'(

Maybe we should ask Adam & Jamie?

R

 

[TheRover]

...in Houston (KIOL). Supposedly to KHJK JACK FM. Flip supposedly happening tomorrow (Friday). Wonder if they will ever do anything with the Bone here?

Whatever makes the corporate advertisers happy.

THAT... is the true Bottom Line for those folks !

Your and my Happiness is not part of the equation.

A sucker is born every minute, P T Barnum once said.... Or, as I would like to say.... A shallow music listener is born every minute ! ! And aren't the corporate advertisers elated about those folks !!

Out of curiosity, when did radio station owners, corporate or mom-and-pop outfits, not care about making a profit? When were most radio stations programmed strictly for the enjoyment of listeners without a care in the world about pleasing sponsors?

I just think the imbalance is the other way..... So, I would inquire txchipk, when were most FM Rock radio stations programmed strictly to please the sponsors, without a care in the world about the listener's enjoyment?

Some presons run and manage a record company because of the LOVE of Music, primarily, and yes, they expect and hope to make a profit [IE Atlantic Records Founder Ahmet Ertegun, and Producer Jerry Wexler].

Other persons primary concern is maxium short term profits for the stockholders. Appreciating great music, is completely optiional. Appreciating great profits over all other condiserations, is expected...

Some LOVE the MUSIC Business......

Others simply Love the Business.... of Music, or Radio.. ;D

 

[txchipk]

Out of curiosity, when did radio station owners, corporate or mom-and-pop outfits, not care about making a profit? When were most radio stations programmed strictly for the enjoyment of listeners without a care in the world about pleasing sponsors?

I just think the imbalance is the other way..... So, I would inquire txchipk, when were most FM Rock radio stations programmed strictly to please the sponsors, without a care in the world about the listener's enjoyment?

Some presons run and manage a record company because of the LOVE of Music, primarily, and yes, they expect and hope to make a profit [IE Atlantic Records Founder Ahmet Ertegun, and Producer Jerry Wexler].

Other persons primary concern is maxium short term profits for the stockholders. Appreciating great music, is completely optiional. Appreciating great profits over all other condiserations, is expected...

Some LOVE the MUSIC Business......

Others simply Love the Business.... of Music, or Radio.. ;D

I'm just not sure things have changed that much. The lack of quality FM rock stations today has more to do with rock not being popular rather than corporate evilness. In the 70s, it was enormously popular. It was still popular in the 80s. You had multiple rock stations in every market and MTV was mostly rock-based. Since you had large audiences and multiple competitors, you generally got good stations (along with some bad ones).

Rock isn't popular today...today's youth is attracted to hip hop, pop, etc. MTV seldom plays a rock video (when they do play a video). The result is you have multiple hip hop stations and few rock stations (or in Dallas and Houston's case, no rock stations anymore).

I don't work in radio, but I don't buy that today's PDs, MDs, DJs, etc. don't care about the music. It seems most of them stay in the same format when you read someone moves from one market to another market. So, they must have some sort of interest in the formats they are in.

I think people tend to have "good ol' days" memories. People who grew up in the 60s complain radio isn't as good as the top 40 stations were then. People who grew up in the 70s long for the FM rock signals of their days. Most stations on the dial, particularly on other formats, weren't great. It just happens the stations that were great at the time were in the format you found great.
It hasn't changed much...if you like hip hop, you would be living in its "golden years" the last couple of years. In 10 years, people who like that music will probably complain that radio isn't as good because something else has become popular.

Personally, I hate hip hop and like rock...

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

All salient points.

But let's be honest. Ask today's juvenile or even puerile, "What is ROCK music?" You will get a dazzling array of cornucopia from glam bands, lipstick metal, classic 80s and even that homogenized crap they play today. Ever heard a Nickleback CD? Every song sounds the same... yeah, no wonder they are tops on most added, every MD gets their tunes mixed up. Rock - real rock - isn't what it used to be and the knowledge base of that fact is like my beloved jazz - skewing older.

TxChip is right. WE love the music. THEY love the business... and THAT is exactly what is killing the business.

 

[CW]

A sucker is born every minute, P T Barnum once said.... Or, as I would like to say.... A shallow music listener is born every minute ! ! And aren't the corporate advertisers elated about those folks !!

Urban legend..PT never said that....it was an associate who actually said that OF PTB during a lawsuit about the tallest man alive.

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

I have to disagree that ROCK is not popular. Look at the summer tours... They are OZZFEST etc... They are not HipHop shows. For example... The reason why THE EAGLE vanished from the DFW market was becuz the programming SUCKED. Seriously. It was beyond bad. They had talent. Well, they had Chris Ryan. As for THE BONE... that lame station can't make up it's mind in what they want to play. At first, they were going to be TEXAS ROCK. What the HELL is that? Texas Rock? Thats beyond stupid. Let's start a station that truly BOXES us in. Then they change again. I promise you... you place a station like KFMX in the DFW market... you would be shocked how much POSITIVE reponse there would be.

However, if you don't have a rock station in a market... people simply say... "Ohhh, thats becuz ROCK is dead". No. It's becuz the ROCK fans have NO ONE to beg for a ROCK STATION. There is no way a listener can voice the needs. There is no way a listener can say to CLEAR CHANNEL etc.. "Hey! We need a station that plays STATIC-X, PANTERA, METALLICA, DROWNING POOL, GODSMACK, PK5, MUDVAYNE, BLACK LABEL etc..." Rock is NOT dead. There have simply been some VERY BAD PD's, OM's who have either allowed the stations to die or have single handedly killed them on their own. Once again, THE EAGLE was not killed becuz ROCK died... the EAGLE died becuz of the PD/MD.

 

[TheRover]

I'm just not sure things have changed that much. The lack of quality FM rock stations today has more to do with rock not being popular rather than corporate evilness.

Rock isn't popular today...today's youth is attracted to hip hop, pop, etc.

I think people tend to have "good ol' days" memories. People who grew up in the 60s
It hasn't changed much...if you like hip hop, you would be living in its "golden years" the last couple of years. In 10 years, people who like that music will probably complain that radio isn't as good because something else has become popular.

Personally, I hate hip hop and like rock...

How do ever explain this.... I do not like "Popular" Music. I do not like music that is commercial pop or commercial rock, or commerical alternative, for that matter.

Thw whole idea of playing "Commercial Hits" on Radio, of whatever genre, is one part of the "Business" that I have no interest in. There was commercial pop music all around, but then FM stations began playing deep album cuts, that were great songs, just not "commercial" hits. Yes, some of the album music was way out and esoteric. I am not asking for a station to play that. That &^*% gets played on 89.3 anyways......

The great songs on the rock albums of the 60's and 70's ans still great. You've got an over abundance of stations vieing for the "Masses" with various genres.

But, Rock, great rock music, those deep, but not too estoteric albums cuts is just the Rock music that is invigorating and exciting..... but alas, it's not the vechile that Proctor & Gamble or Ford want to support.

The Classic Rock format is just AM Hit re-packaged. It's a big step backward, for great FM Rock radio listening. There is an audience for non-commerical rock that's not too esoteric.

I don't care if ANY radio format fails that is playing the same hits over and over again !

So, it is Corporate America that is spoon feeding this pop hit drabble, in all of it's genres, to the EXCLUSION of Great Rock, and other great songs that do not fit into the pop hit drabble. Radio is no longer a place to share the best music. It's ONLY there to share the best "Hit" Music. The "other" music does not fit the profit is everything model for something that used to be culturally signifigant.

America has truly lost it's cultural soul. You look at what is force fed to the masses and that, will tell you about the soul of a Nation.

Compare what MTV used to be before Viacom Globalized and Canibalized it.

A Nation that is ONLY concerned about maximum profits with commerical poop, has failed culturally. It is a Big Deal. But with your focus on the current "Pop" music and how that will change, then you've missed all of the important statements that have already been so eloquently made, in the 60's and 70's.

Ignaorance is Bliss.

 

[txchipk]

I have to disagree that ROCK is not popular. Look at the summer tours... They are OZZFEST etc... They are not HipHop shows. For example... The reason why THE EAGLE vanished from the DFW market was becuz the programming SUCKED.

Next week, my season tickets to the Stars upcoming season will come in the mail. There will be likely 17,000 to 18,000 people at each of the games. That doesn't make it enormously popular with respect to the total population. It just means in a large metro area, there are still enough people to fill up a venue; it doesn't make it hugely popular.

If you look at the hot 100 chart each week over the last 10 years, it is not uncommon to see no rock songs made it to the top 10. Week after week, the top 10 is dominated by rhythmic music of some kind. That certainly wasn't true in the 80s.

Certainly, if you go market-by-market and compare the number of rock stations today to the past, there are fewer today. Considering the number of FMs have grown in most markets from move-ins, the situation is worse.

It's not just that KEGL stank (it did...how it outlasted Q102 still surprises me), the format is sinking nationally. You can run the report off Arbitron's site...AOR and active rock had a 5.4 12+ national rating in the fall 1998. In the most recent winter 2007 book, that is down to a 3.5 nationally. Rhythmic CHRs and urbans are at 9.9.

As for Ozzfest, note that it played at a much smaller venue than the "American Idols" tour of rejects from that show and the "Dancing with the Stars" summer tour. Tickets were also at cheaper prices. Ozzfest attendance is a far cry from the Texxas Jam festivals at the Cotton Bowl.

So, to say the rock scene is anywhere near as popular as it once was is a stretch.

Seriously. It was beyond bad. They had talent. Well, they had Chris Ryan. As for THE BONE... that lame station can't make up it's mind in what they want to play. At first, they were going to be TEXAS ROCK. What the HELL is that? Texas Rock? Thats beyond stupid. Let's start a station that truly BOXES us in. Then they change again. I promise you... you place a station like KFMX in the DFW market... you would be shocked how much POSITIVE reponse there would be.

However, if you don't have a rock station in a market... people simply say... "Ohhh, thats becuz ROCK is dead". No. It's becuz the ROCK fans have NO ONE to beg for a ROCK STATION. There is no way a listener can voice the needs. There is no way a listener can say to CLEAR CHANNEL etc.. "Hey! We need a station that plays STATIC-X, PANTERA, METALLICA, DROWNING POOL, GODSMACK, PK5, MUDVAYNE, BLACK LABEL etc..." Rock is NOT dead. There have simply been some VERY BAD PD's, OM's who have either allowed the stations to die or have single handedly killed them on their own. Once again, THE EAGLE was not killed becuz ROCK died... the EAGLE died becuz of the PD/MD.

I'm not sure your argument holds here. If rock is dead in this market because of Clear Channel, why would transporting Clear Channel-owned KFMX Lubbock here light this market on fire?

Again, it's not just Dallas. Houston has no rock station; Los Angeles has no rock station; San Franciso has not rock station; and so on. Even where there is a "rock station" -- a lot of them are majority older material mixed in with a few currents (WFNY New York).

Again, I much prefer rock to the pop and rap crap that is everywhere today. I'm just stating a reality of where it stands compared to where it used to.

 

[txchipk]

I'm just not sure things have changed that much. The lack of quality FM rock stations today has more to do with rock not being popular rather than corporate evilness.

Rock isn't popular today...today's youth is attracted to hip hop, pop, etc.

I think people tend to have "good ol' days" memories. People who grew up in the 60s
It hasn't changed much...if you like hip hop, you would be living in its "golden years" the last couple of years. In 10 years, people who like that music will probably complain that radio isn't as good because something else has become popular.

Personally, I hate hip hop and like rock...

How do ever explain this.... I do not like "Popular" Music. I do not like music that is commercial pop or commercial rock, or commerical alternative, for that matter.

Thw whole idea of playing "Commercial Hits" on Radio, of whatever genre, is one part of the "Business" that I have no interest in. There was commercial pop music all around, but then FM stations began playing deep album cuts, that were great songs, just not "commercial" hits. Yes, some of the album music was way out and esoteric. I am not asking for a station to play that. That &^*% gets played on 89.3 anyways......

The great songs on the rock albums of the 60's and 70's ans still great. You've got an over abundance of stations vieing for the "Masses" with various genres.

But, Rock, great rock music, those deep, but not too estoteric albums cuts is just the Rock music that is invigorating and exciting..... but alas, it's not the vechile that Proctor & Gamble or Ford want to support.

The Classic Rock format is just AM Hit re-packaged. It's a big step backward, for great FM Rock radio listening. There is an audience for non-commerical rock that's not too esoteric.

I don't care if ANY radio format fails that is playing the same hits over and over again !

So, it is Corporate America that is spoon feeding this pop hit drabble, in all of it's genres, to the EXCLUSION of Great Rock, and other great songs that do not fit into the pop hit drabble. Radio is no longer a place to share the best music. It's ONLY there to share the best "Hit" Music. The "other" music does not fit the profit is everything model for something that used to be culturally signifigant.

America has truly lost it's cultural soul. You look at what is force fed to the masses and that, will tell you about the soul of a Nation.

Compare what MTV used to be before Viacom Globalized and Canibalized it.

A Nation that is ONLY concerned about maximum profits with commerical poop, has failed culturally. It is a Big Deal. But with your focus on the current "Pop" music and how that will change, then you've missed all of the important statements that have already been so eloquently made, in the 60's and 70's.

Ignaorance is Bliss.

More like romanticizing the past is bliss. If Internet bulletin boards existed 30 years ago, this post would have been there. Except it would have been posted by some dude in their 50s complaining about how souless pop culture in the 60s and 70s has become by adopting dirty rock and roll in the mainstream and how that music sucks compared to the "real music" of the 30s and 40s when music had soul, was played by real artists who care about the music and not by young hippies with long hair playing electric guitar.

As I said in my original reply, I don't think things have really changed with respect to programming -- owners put on formats they believe will generate them a profit. What's changed is overall popularity of certain kinds of music. In the 70s, Belo could run KZEW with an eclectic rock mix because that was popular at the time and made them money. They weren't running that as a charity. The reason that format isn't on the air today is that hardly anyone would listen to it because tastes have changed. It's the same reason why there wasn't 4 FM stations playing Sinatra tunes in 1978 in this market. Most people in their 20s-40s don't care for it; just like most people in their 20s-40s in 2007 don't have the passion for rock music that people in the 20s-40s in the 1970s did.

 

[FOZZIE BEAR]

Hang On... let me make sure to front sell this with "I am not trying to start some sort of fight"... I am just a huge believer in the ACTIVE ROCK FORMAT.

First off. From what I had read and from what I had been told by acts who played OzzFest in DALLAS, they had over 10 thousand something. Secondly. It was a FREE TOUR. Third. You can mention AMERCIAN IDOL, DANCING W/ THE STARS etc... However, Family Values, Ozzfest etc... still get (from the articles I have read) more people turning out. And if AMERICAN IDOL, DANCING W/ THE STARS do get more people to their shows.... well they BETTER. Becuz they have radio to promote it and lets not forget....TV. And a lot of TV to promote it. Think of it this way. Do you think Ryan Seacrest is a massively popular personality? Most people would say they dont care one way or another. However, it hasn't stopped him from being involved in EVERYTHING! Now he's going to be at the Superbowl. He's gotten a syn deal over in the UK. What the hell? So, would that mean that CHR is the format that america wants? No. But Ryan Seacrest is Mr. CHR! So.

Also, for the past year if not longer. There has been at least 2 to 3 rock songs in the Top 10 of CHR. There has been more and more crossover from rock bands. Rock is not dead. Matter of fact... it's becoming more popular....becuz its obtaining a larger audience. I know we can sit here and quote numbers from arbitron. However, honestly... thats like saying "Well, the tooth fairy told me". And I didnt say ROCK was dead becuz of CC. It's dead becuz of BAD OM'S & PD'S. However, companies like CC etc.. allow this crap to happen. We all know Corporate suits in radio THINK they know radio.... but they NEVER do. Also, transporting a station , KFMX, that WAS owned by CC to Dallas has nothing to do with it. CC never had anything to do with KFMX except for making sure they stayed within their budget etc... KFMX achieved their success on playing what was popular in the active format, plus playing the PANTERA'S, UNION UNDERGROUND'S, PK 5'S etc... and having PERSONALITIES. Jocks who know the format and know how to make their listeners feel like THAT IS MY STATION.

My question or statement I guess you could say is... If rock is dead and its a worthless format to get involved in... then why are OZZFEST and FAMILY VALUES etc.. coming to these major markets year after year. How are these acts making any money? If rock has lost its popularity it would be stupid to even waste your time with ROCK. I'm telling you.... ROCK isn't dead. It's just a matter of CORPORATE SUITS etc... making some very bad decisions. What happens is... you get a station like THE BONE in dallas and it sucks. No money in it etc... Then you get people who say..."See! I told you. That format is dead. We need more CHR or more HIPHOP." We all know that decision was made based on a HORRIBLE STATION to start with.

Anyway... I am not trying to fight with anyone. Lets understand that. I am just saying... the format is being placed in a coffin...in preperation for its funeral..................and its far from dead. Its just not being given a real chance. There is A LOT of money to make with a ACTIVE ROCK format and it just seems so damn stupid to ignore that. And the first ACTIVE ROCK that comes in and fills that gap in the DFW market is going to be successful.

 

[jeff715]

It is just a shame what FM has become. Yes, we should have Active Rock, Smooth Jazz, Dance, AAA... but we don't because of dereg and corp greed.

 

[little1]

Why 'should' we have any of those formats?

The market 'should' have exactly the formats they have. Because the market is deciding right now what they want. through arbitron ratings and this wonderful little invention, perhaps you've hreard of it....It's called 'money'. Stations make this 'money' by selling "advertising". They sell the "advertising" by playing stuff that attracts an audience.

Therefore, ipso facto and ergo sum, if a company has a format on the air, they must be drawing enough of an audience to make this so-called 'money'.

And if they weren't making money, they'd be changing formats to something that DID make them money.

Smooth Jazz, AAA, active rock, etc have all been tried in this market. And failed miserably. Why 'should' we have stations that have proven that they can't succeed? Why should we have stations that have proven they can't draw enough of an audience to make a station money?

Sure, it would be great if we didn't have to worry about stations making money. But you know what....I like getting a paycheck every 2 weeks. I like knowing my station is making enough money that they're not going to pull the plug.

 

[TheRover]

Why 'should' we have any of those formats?

The market 'should' have exactly the formats they have. Because the market is deciding right now what they want. through arbitron ratings and this wonderful little invention, perhaps you've hreard of it....It's called 'money'. Stations make this 'money' by selling "advertising". They sell the "advertising" by playing stuff that attracts an audience.

Therefore, ipso facto and ergo sum, if a company has a format on the air, they must be drawing enough of an audience to make this so-called 'money'.
And if they weren't making money, they'd be changing formats to something that DID make them money.

Good music that is not repetitive like Classic Rock formats, actually attracts an audience.

I loathe the Business of making Hit Radio successful. It is a waste of the Public airwaves. And at this juncture, the waste in pervasive and incredible.