Dayton's Ultimate Oldies Radio Expands Format

[One Who Knows]

I see three lengthy postings, one after another, from “One Who Knows”. While I felt it unnecessary to be drawn into a debate on ratings and how to program a radio station by someone who professes to be an expert and is probably wishing to sell his services, I feel it is important to clear up some false impressions he is making on how things operate at Ultimate Oldies Radio.

1. Quantity of music. The last 2,000 additions to the playlist were entirely due to suggestions by the volunteer announcers. The Music Director categorizes the music and sets the repetition rate, ensuring only a couple of the more obscure tunes get played each hour. That is the reason we now play 6,000 titles, and can continue to expand to any number of tunes.
2. Suggestions. Volunteer suggestions are welcomed, and often implemented. But management always has to make a final decision.
3. Rules of the Road. Every professionally run radio station has them. A few high school and college stations are devoid of rules, anarchy prevails, and they sound terrible. Ultimate Oldies Radio has three general rules - follow the format, don’t say anything that will offend our listeners, and follow the FCC regulations. Simple enough! None of our volunteers have ever been told to leave.

We have a large group of dedicated volunteers, and couldn’t run things without them. Also a waiting list of people who wish to get training to become announcers.

Apparently, PBR, the station, some others on this board and I have differening views of what are "obscure" songs. And I'll just leave it lay there.

I've never suggested you (or anyone there) has ever told volunteers to leave. I have been told by former volunteers (some of whom have had substantial background in radio) that management was just too "beholden to their visions for the format" and too "unwilling to allow those with professional radio experience" to use that experience. Hence, the reason they chose to disassociate with the station. And I stand by those statements.

That the station is being run as a training ground for prospective broadcasters is a good thing, and I commend you for that.

I have plenty enough work...and not enough time to deal with it all, so don't think I'm trying to "sell" anything. Besides, if I were, I'd have to have a reasonable belief the client (or boss) would actually listen to what I wanted him to do. That obviously wouldn't happen now, would it? (The words: when he-- freezes over comes to mind here. And please understand, that's intended to be a joke!)

Was the station's showing two books ago unremarkable? Actually, no it wasn't. I only took issue with how you tried to characterize it, which wasn't provable.

As far as our back-and-forth on programming concepts go, we'll have to agree to disagree. You'll stand by your views. I stand with the opinion that the station is playing far more "stiffs" than it should be. At the end of the day, my humble opinion (which I am entitled to, as you are yours), is by being a little more selective with what you play, how it's organized and how you play it, your station could show up consistently in the Dayton ARB and the station could actually command a substantial listening audience, moreso than it does now.

I wish you and the station well.

 

[One Who Knows]

The number of tunes in the library is not want matters. You can have 20,000 if you want. What matters is where they are injected and how often they are rotated. You can have a core of 400 hits that is your primary rotation and the others are injected at only one per hour or every other hour in just the right places.

Miracle:

You're actually right about that. But, the problem is (if you spend substantial time listening to the station) their primary rotation appears on the air to be far larger than 400. Or else it's the wrong 400. I do hear legitimate hits on the station (and sometimes even 2 or 3 in a row), but then I hear 2 or 3 songs that are either abject "stiffs" or songs which, even with a library of over 15-thousand oldies at home, I don't recognize.

I would hope you would agree if you programmed such a station as you suggest, you would want that core of songs to be very familiar titles. Even if you had no means of researching them, you'd pick not by a chart, but by gut of what the absolute best titles were. (Examples: "Happy Together" by the Turtles, "Daydream Believer" by The Monkees, "Joy To The World by Three Dog Night, "Still The One" by Orleans, etc.) You'd focus on that 400 core (or even 600 core) for most of your programming hour, then if you wanted to throw an "oh wow", at the audience once or twice an hour, it would work as it is intended to work. You've actually outlined what I would suggest they do.

That's just not what we hear on this station.

 

[Timewarp]

Before the British Invasion, Wolfman Jack became famous for playing the
black artists. The black artists of the 1950's and early 60's were the greatest
of them all. I've noticed this station plays these oldies. I love the Drifters,
Coasters, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong, Sam Cooke, and more.

The Britsh Invasion was cool too.

Donny Osmond and the Disco 70's deserve only lite play.
I'm not a fan of most pop music between 1972-1977.

 

[Kahuna1]

I'm a little leary about jumping into this debate between "one who knows" and "PBR". I see both sides of the discussion and have been one of the "disgruntled" volenteers who have distanced themselves from the operation. I offered my "profesional opinion", and I've got to say, I don't think it was well recieved. Right or wrong, it was just my opinion. OU is a dedicated group who truly believe in what the are doing and how they are doing it. Since SW Ohio Public Radio holds the LPFM license and is responsible for the commitment to the local community (Huber Heights) and have spent thousands of thier own dollars to keep the place afloat, give them credit for the product they have on the air.

Forget ARB and PPM, they can't sell numbers anyways. Go into local small businesses in HH and talk to those people about Wayne HS sports and a substantial on air sponsorship package that costs less than $1000 and you'll find that the sports broadcasts are sold out. Sure CC and Cox can offer a greater *** to a larger potenrial audience, but OU is targeted to local listeners at a cost that won't bankrupt a business.

The playlist is too large and many times the product is un listenable, but is that the point. PBR is a an audio collector who's depth of titles and music history knowledge have put him in the unique position of being able to offer his treasures to the world. Add to that, that he holds the license for this facility and has made it into a functioning, self sufficient operation with a group of volunteers who give of thier time just for the joy of being on the air.

To "One Who Knows", I would challenge you to get off the sidelines and try to be as successful. It's far to easy to spout theory and poison rethoric about heresay or gossip from afar in regards to this operation, as opposed to seeing the potential of the format and being involved in it's ongoing growth.

As I said at the onset, this is just my opinion and I am NOT "One Who Knows"

 

[Bob in Dayton]

I find the postings in this thread bring out the good and bad about Radio-Info.

We have a diverse group – from those who have years in the business to wanna-be’s. We have topics which often diverge from the original posting to be something off-topic. We have people who simply post a thought without being critical, to those who scrutinize each posting to write another book chapter to show how smart they are. I know there are a lot of inflated egos in the radio business. Part of it has to do with supply and demand. There are more people wanting to work in radio than there are jobs. Most anyone who has been in the business awhile has a resume as long as your arm. They’ve been hired, fired or quit numerous stations in their career. Those who work at commercial stations are likely to find fixed playlists and tight formats. Most are thankful they have a job – so they take their paycheck and keep their mouths shut. They also must hope their paycheck doesn’t bounce and that they have a job next week! Pay is poor and security nonexistent.

“Kahuna1” probably did the right thing for himself to walk away from UO. No sense in volunteering unless you’re happy. Those volunteers who run UO day-in and day-out evidently are more comfortable with the format. Some have considerable radio experience, to include working in major markets.

Programmers and consultants are a special breed. They always have a better idea on how to run a station – or they wouldn’t have any jobs. Interview one, and they’ll tell you how successful they’ve been. Mention one of their failed efforts, and you’ll hear “good” reasons why it didn’t last.

“The GM tied my hands”. “No one would listen to me”. “They found a better format to switch over to”. “We got bought up by… (insert a name of a conglomerate), they changed everything and fired everybody”.

Some of the explanations are legit, some are excuses. When was the last time a programmer or consultant said “I messed that one up badly”?

I listen to UO, and like what they’re doing. I even enjoy the occasional “OH WOW -I haven’t heard that in a long time” tune! None of the corporate cookie-cutter operations in Dayton are doing oldies. It’s a shame they don’t care about the older demo – or assume they’ll be forced to listen to one of the offered formats.

Has anybody yet found a radio station where they like EVERY single tune that gets played? One person’s “stiff” is another person’s “treasure”.

How many “oldies” station have tried to cover the 50s, 60s, and early-to-mid 70s? That’s more than 25 years of music! Even if you play a couple hundred tunes from each year - that would result in a large playlist. UO is filling a big hole in the Dayton market in an innovative way. Big radio would tend to cut out the 50s and early 60s, and limit the tunes played to the same ones heard over-and-over-and-over. Boring!

 

[One Who Knows]

I'm a little leary about jumping into this debate between "one who knows" and "PBR". I see both sides of the discussion and have been one of the "disgruntled" volenteers who have distanced themselves from the operation. I offered my "profesional opinion", and I've got to say, I don't think it was well recieved. Right or wrong, it was just my opinion. OU is a dedicated group who truly believe in what the are doing and how they are doing it. Since SW Ohio Public Radio holds the LPFM license and is responsible for the commitment to the local community (Huber Heights) and have spent thousands of thier own dollars to keep the place afloat, give them credit for the product they have on the air.

Forget ARB and PPM, they can't sell numbers anyways. Go into local small businesses in HH and talk to those people about Wayne HS sports and a substantial on air sponsorship package that costs less than $1000 and you'll find that the sports broadcasts are sold out. Sure CC and Cox can offer a greater *** to a larger potenrial audience, but OU is targeted to local listeners at a cost that won't bankrupt a business.

The playlist is too large and many times the product is un listenable, but is that the point. PBR is a an audio collector who's depth of titles and music history knowledge have put him in the unique position of being able to offer his treasures to the world. Add to that, that he holds the license for this facility and has made it into a functioning, self sufficient operation with a group of volunteers who give of thier time just for the joy of being on the air.

To "One Who Knows", I would challenge you to get off the sidelines and try to be as successful. It's far to easy to spout theory and poison rethoric about heresay or gossip from afar in regards to this operation, as opposed to seeing the potential of the format and being involved in it's ongoing growth.

As I said at the onset, this is just my opinion and I am NOT "One Who Knows"

No, Kahuna...you are not me, but thank you for providing the background on why you chose to distance yourself from UO. I was never aware of that story...my "sources" are two other former Dayton area broadcasters. I am also quite certain the station gets good reviews and good underwriting from their support of Wayne HS sports. It could be a cash cow for any LP-FM station.

However, Kahuna...I am not, as you suggest on the sidelines. I have a full time broadcasting job, and consult programming for two other stations, one CHR...one Oldies. One of those two stations is an LP-FM. And the LP is doing quite well at this time.

As I said, my original intent in getting involved with this post was the absurd notion by the original poster that indicated that a 0.4 12 plus share in one Arbitron book provided validation of a programming theory...and also that the station's audience in Huber Heights was "competitive" with the local commercial stations. I'm sure they have listeners there, but the station's ranking 12 plus doesn't support the original poster's second argument, once you break down the rating book itself.

 

[One Who Knows]

I find the postings in this thread bring out the good and bad about Radio-Info.

We have a diverse group – from those who have years in the business to wanna-be’s. We have topics which often diverge from the original posting to be something off-topic. We have people who simply post a thought without being critical, to those who scrutinize each posting to write another book chapter to show how smart they are. I know there are a lot of inflated egos in the radio business. Part of it has to do with supply and demand. There are more people wanting to work in radio than there are jobs. Most anyone who has been in the business awhile has a resume as long as your arm. They’ve been hired, fired or quit numerous stations in their career. Those who work at commercial stations are likely to find fixed playlists and tight formats. Most are thankful they have a job – so they take their paycheck and keep their mouths shut. They also must hope their paycheck doesn’t bounce and that they have a job next week! Pay is poor and security nonexistent.

“Kahuna1” probably did the right thing for himself to walk away from UO. No sense in volunteering unless you’re happy. Those volunteers who run UO day-in and day-out evidently are more comfortable with the format. Some have considerable radio experience, to include working in major markets.

Programmers and consultants are a special breed. They always have a better idea on how to run a station – or they wouldn’t have any jobs. Interview one, and they’ll tell you how successful they’ve been. Mention one of their failed efforts, and you’ll hear “good” reasons why it didn’t last.

“The GM tied my hands”. “No one would listen to me”. “They found a better format to switch over to”. “We got bought up by… (insert a name of a conglomerate), they changed everything and fired everybody”.

Some of the explanations are legit, some are excuses. When was the last time a programmer or consultant said “I messed that one up badly”?

I listen to UO, and like what they’re doing. I even enjoy the occasional “OH WOW -I haven’t heard that in a long time” tune! None of the corporate cookie-cutter operations in Dayton are doing oldies. It’s a shame they don’t care about the older demo – or assume they’ll be forced to listen to one of the offered formats.

Has anybody yet found a radio station where they like EVERY single tune that gets played? One person’s “stiff” is another person’s “treasure”.

How many “oldies” station have tried to cover the 50s, 60s, and early-to-mid 70s? That’s more than 25 years of music! Even if you play a couple hundred tunes from each year - that would result in a large playlist. UO is filling a big hole in the Dayton market in an innovative way. Big radio would tend to cut out the 50s and early 60s, and limit the tunes played to the same ones heard over-and-over-and-over. Boring!

So you ask:

"How many “oldies” station have tried to cover the 50s, 60s, and early-to-mid 70s? That’s more than 25 years of music! Even if you play a couple hundred tunes from each year - that would result in a large playlist."

You're correct about the size of the playlist that would result. But, let me assure you playing a list that size has been tried in commercial radio, and it has failed every time.

You say...

"None of the corporate cookie-cutter operations in Dayton are doing oldies."

Do you know why that is? A 50's/60's/70's formatted radio station will no longer bring you sufficient advertising revenue, because the majority of the advertisers demand good 25-54 numbers, and the audience for oldies is now 45 plus. The big ticket advertisers will not support a station with an audience considered to be, "too old" (Now, I don't agree with this, but as one person I am powerless to change an entire industry.) Stop saying radio "isn't interested" in the demo. If the money was there, the radio stations would be on it in a second. It's the advertisers who, in many cases, use means other than radio to advertise to the upper demos.

OK, so the format is a downside to a commercial station these days. Which makes oldies an extreme opportunity for an LPFM. Serve a substantial portion of the population, and sell it to small mom and pop stores and businesses at a cheap underwriting cost. But again at issue: programming philosophy, and we've already dragged that horse through the mud more than a few times here, so no more discussion from my part there. I've already made my points.

On consultants: I've worked with some very good ones, as well as a few that are scoundrels. But there are some very good consultants out there. The bad ones are the ones that, for the most part, cop the excuses you mention. Of the stations I am consulting, I try always...always...to offer sound programming logic as my reason for suggesting anything. And I do not cop excuses for problems that occur along the way. If I created the problem, I say so.

As to stiffs: your analogy is partly correct, as lots of people can like lots of different songs. But, as far as a radio programmer is concerned: if a song didn't break the top 20...or if you find that 40% or more of the audience "hates" the song, why would you play it? (You're gambling in that case that as much as 4 in 10 or more of your listeners are turning off the radio every single time you play it.)

Now, granted. If UO truly doesn't care about ratings, sure...you can run your station to aim at those with eclectic tastes, such as PBR's, and that's ok. Nobody, least of all me is suggesting that the station isn't successful, isn't profitable (as least as much as a non-profit can be...they do have to pay the bills.), or isn't enjoyed by some radio listeners.

 

[One Who Knows]

Before the British Invasion, Wolfman Jack became famous for playing the
black artists. The black artists of the 1950's and early 60's were the greatest
of them all. I've noticed this station plays these oldies. I love the Drifters,
Coasters, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong, Sam Cooke, and more.

The Britsh Invasion was cool too.

Donny Osmond and the Disco 70's deserve only lite play.
I'm not a fan of most pop music between 1972-1977.

Time Warp: I like a lot of those artists, too. But, how old are you? Believe it or not there are many adult women who like disco these days. And, if you want to reach 35-64 year olds, some, though not all of it, makes the cut. WCBS-FM in New York plays it as part of their new "classic hits" format and last time I checked, they were like #2 in NYC.

 

[Timewarp]

So, this is someone's campaign. It looks like the Cool Cats verses the Dorks.
The Cool Cats dug the music made famous by the Wolfman. This music saved
radio after most of the shows moved to television.
The Dorks were listening to the crap the money men tried to sell my generation
in the 1970's. This crap is really what killed AM radio.

The girls who liked disco and 70's pop back then switched to AC long ago.

A radio station really must program to please he who is paying for it. So,
if he wants Oldies, Oldies it is.

 

[One Who Knows]

So, this is someone's campaign. It looks like the Cool Cats verses the Dorks.
The Cool Cats dug the music made famous by the Wolfman. This music saved
radio after most of the shows moved to television.
The Dorks were listening to the crap the money men tried to sell my generation
in the 1970's. This crap is really what killed AM radio.

The girls who liked disco and 70's pop back then switched to AC long ago.

A radio station really must program to please he who is paying for it. So,
if he wants Oldies, Oldies it is.

Time warp - I must say, you are stuck in one.

The radio station must please the audience the advertisers want, or else there's no advertising.

Then there is no radio station.

It's really a simple concept.

If you grew up in the 60's and went to school in the 70's (which I did by the way), there was a lot of good music then.
Again, what we have here is someone from the 50's generation not understanding that a younger generation can have different tastes in music.

It's only a "cool cats/dorks" argument in your mind, Time Warp. The "average" radio listener couldn't care less.

Yes, today's adult women (30's-50's) are revisiting the disco era. They are now going through the same nostalgia phase you went through when oldies radio began. That's the mainstream audience the advertisers want today (25-54). So a comeback of some of the music of the 70's shouldn't surprise you...or me...or anyone.

BTW: The oldies format has always leaned 60% toward women...

 

[Timewarp]

I knew a radio station that was very popular. But, it could not be played
in offices and stores. So, the sales staff had great difficulty selling advertising.

The station changed format to AC. The ratings went down to one forth of
what they had been. But, it was now easier to sell. Income went up by five times.

Do you think disco will play well in an office setting? I don't.

Indianapolis had 2 Classic Hits stations. One mixed in Disco. The station
that did not play disco creamed the one that did in Arbitron Ratings even
though it was low powered and the one playing Disco was high powered.

Playing 50's and 60's Oldies will make this WSWO a very loyal audience
of Baby boomers.

This station is an independent, a single stick operation, and NCE.

NCE is a totally different game than commercial radio. Competition comes
in the form of other Not For Profits Vying for the same grant money. But,
an NCE should go to it's listeners for money. They can and do.

An operator of a single stick must be involved in community events to get
backing from businesses and survive. Looking at this from the business side,
music is filler between paid events.

A Disco Show on Sunday Night would not kill WSWO. But in regular rotation,
next to Buddy Holly would be retarded.

 

[Radio Dav]

The classic hits station WKLU Indianapolis was oldies, had decent ratings for a class A, the station was sold and changed to K Love. The classic hits station that leaned more toward classic rock was 50k and it's ratings may been a little better, there's another station that plays classic hits, they say we play everything, may hear Beatles then 15 min. Lady Gaga, that station has worse ratings than WKLU, and it has more power.

One Who Knows

Is correct about big ad agencies, they don't want to advertise with a station that plays oldies, they have several 25 year olds in the ad agencies, they feel the audience on oldies station is to old for advertising. Years ago this use to be the case for stations that play Disco or Rap but the 25 year olds like Hip Hop. Maybe they want people to go with SirrusXM...

If I had an oldies station I would try to play 1 - 2 new songs an hour, then focus on 50 - 80s.
I think would try a song that was remixed at times, it may go over all right "Such As" Kid Rock's version of Sweet Home Alabama, maybe some popular country like George Straits that could cross over into pop, maybe a song by Taylor Swift 2 - 4 times a day.

I heard some stations tried to do what I said above and failed, maybe they picked country music that was not popular with very many people.

Maybe only other option to do oldies is with a non com that can use translators, that don't depend on ad agencies. WNTY in FT Myers just changed to talk, oldies is gone in Indpls, unless you can hear a class A station from around 1 of the collage towns 40 - 60 miles from Indpls. It would be nice if we could hear WGRR in Indy.

Sometimes think for a good oldies station to survive it needs to have a signal to cover more than 1 radio market. So maybe have 1 class A in each city, Cincinnati, Dayton, and Indpls, simulcast as 1 station except during news, and traffic.

I mentioned if a little station could be used and re simulcast the little station on a DTV sub station "Such As" 10.4 would stand for 104 FM on TV to Michael's after he worked under Ja or operations.

 

[cold_coffee]

WKLU, Oldies 101.9 did quite well in it's target demo 25-54. the problem was not ratings. Corporate
clusters could operate 4 or 5 high powered stations with the same number of employees as low powered
WKLU (a single stick). This put WKLU on an uneven playing field where the corporates could undercut
WKLU's advertising rates. This was unfair competition. Check out he Indianapolis ratings. WKLU, Oldies
101.9 did quite well.

Every radio station must deal with a troublemaker. There's always someone who thinks he is brighter
than the owner and has a better idea. After failing to enlighten the owner to change the format this
guy quits. Then, he goes on a public forum trying to embarrass and humiliate the owner. I've seen
this game played here before. Like Kid Rock said, "I was born at night. But, not last night."

Ad agencies? Don't you get it. LPFM is noncommercial. Whatever you dudes are smoking is laced.
Put the bong down. Earth calling.

 

[Radio Dav]

I'm surprised WTTS 92.3 did not try to buy WKLU, this may helped WTTS with more advertising around Indiana with there single FM station. Sarkes Tarzian opreates 95.1 and oldies 101.7 in FT Wayne.

 

[One Who Knows]

WKLU, Oldies 101.9 did quite well in it's target demo 25-54. the problem was not ratings. Corporate
clusters could operate 4 or 5 high powered stations with the same number of employees as low powered
WKLU (a single stick). This put WKLU on an uneven playing field where the corporates could undercut
WKLU's advertising rates. This was unfair competition. Check out he Indianapolis ratings. WKLU, Oldies
101.9 did quite well.

Every radio station must deal with a troublemaker. There's always someone who thinks he is brighter
than the owner and has a better idea. After failing to enlighten the owner to change the format this
guy quits. Then, he goes on a public forum trying to embarrass and humiliate the owner. I've seen
this game played here before. Like Kid Rock said, "I was born at night. But, not last night."

Ad agencies? Don't you get it. LPFM is noncommercial. Whatever you dudes are smoking is laced.
Put the bong down. Earth calling.

Cold Coffee:

I know darned well LPFM is noncommercial. (Didn't you read...I work with one?) But, the poster suggested oldies stations were "going away" because of tight playlists, a suggestion that is thoroughly ridiculous. It's the fact that advertisers don't want a 55 plus demo. You have to separate the arguments, because there's a number of them being offered here. You can be #1 25-54 and still not get the advertising, because the advertiser will crunch the numbers and say your audience is "too old". (And again, I disagree with this argument, but try talking to an advertiser or agency buyer about this.) This is what offers LP's, as I have stated here, a unique opportunity - if the stations are programmed correctly.

Your argument about rate cutting is interesting. But, let me clue you in: it's happening all over the industry. Commercial advertising rates have dropped because there is always one or two companies in a city who drop their drawers (and their rates), the second an agency buyer demands it. Hopefully, that will eventually change. Even so, I hesitate to call it "unfair competition". Big companies who try to maintain their rate integrity have suffered mightily at the hands of the "drop your drawers" companies.

And just because you've made the suggestion: I, personally, have never volunteered at UO. I am a broadcast professional with generations of experience. As far as I'm concerned, UO can program their station however they want...and I have no interest in talking to them about anything. This all started, though, because a poster tried to make a claim about the station that was unsupportable by the ratings information they were quoting. I am within my rights as a broadcast professional to set an unsupportable claim straight, and to report some things which I have been told. Things which have been supported by others in these threads. Humiliation was never the intent. But if some on these boards can't handle the truth, that's their problem.

 

[One Who Knows]

I knew a radio station that was very popular. But, it could not be played
in offices and stores. So, the sales staff had great difficulty selling advertising.

The station changed format to AC. The ratings went down to one forth of
what they had been. But, it was now easier to sell. Income went up by five times.

Do you think disco will play well in an office setting? I don't.

Indianapolis had 2 Classic Hits stations. One mixed in Disco. The station
that did not play disco creamed the one that did in Arbitron Ratings even
though it was low powered and the one playing Disco was high powered.

Playing 50's and 60's Oldies will make this WSWO a very loyal audience
of Baby boomers.

This station is an independent, a single stick operation, and NCE.

NCE is a totally different game than commercial radio. Competition comes
in the form of other Not For Profits Vying for the same grant money. But,
an NCE should go to it's listeners for money. They can and do.

An operator of a single stick must be involved in community events to get
backing from businesses and survive. Looking at this from the business side,
music is filler between paid events.

A Disco Show on Sunday Night would not kill WSWO. But in regular rotation,
next to Buddy Holly would be retarded.

Timewarp:

I want to try and be nice here, because it's obvious to me you don't have a clue about what I'm suggesting.

I'm not talking about playing every disco song that was ever released. That would be overkill to be certain, and I would probably bash myself over the head with my radio at the speed of a strobe light if that were to happen.

There are a handful of songs from the disco era, (Basically, it amounts to 2 or 3 songs from "Saturday Night Fever", the Rolling Stones "Miss You" - which was a big dance club song back then, and a couple others) that do well in music tests with today's "oldies" audience.) The songs are completely compatible with the 70's music most of today's oldies/classic hits station play. And they work with the audience. (Otherwise, WCBS-FM wouldn't be #2 in NYC...and WGRR wouldn't be getting the ratings they are getting in Cincy right now). Those are the songs I'm talking about...sprinkled in with the hits from the 50's to the 80's. And you wouldn't play a disco song necessarily directly next to Buddy Holly...you set up your "hourly clock rotations" to keep what we in the business call "era flow" as correct as humanly possible.

BTW: You do understand, don't you that both WMMX and WLQT in Dayton have been playing the music from the 70's and 80's for years, including some disco? (Though just of late, Mix has moved away from most of that now to focus on newer music, while a good portion of it is still on Lite.) Both have been top rated A/C "at work" stations all the while they were playing that music. So a disco song isn't "compatible" with at work listening? Your suggestion belies the facts. And, before you say it..."oldies" lives in the same category as "A/C". Because both formats attract largely adult, female-skewed audiences when they are done correctly.

50's and 60's oldies are a big opportunity for WSWO. They "can" bring them a substantial baby boomer audience. My contention, though (and I'm only going to state this one more time here) is that what they are doing is not innovation.
Playing thousands of songs has been tried before. In Dayton...as well as numerous other markets. Any time it has been tried, in any format, it has never produced a proven "large" number of listeners. These are facts, and are provable. But, UO can run their station however they want.

Most LP's, though are not trying to get "grant money". They sell what is called "Enhanced Underwriting", which is completely legal. And, it sells for all kinds of programming from high school sports (which I laud UO for doing) to religious programming and yes, even musical programming. Are you seriously suggesting stations such as Ultimate Oldies shouldn't be going to businesses, only to listeners to get "underwriting"? That would be absurd and would probably prevent stations such as UO from paying the bills. (I even think the folks at Ultimate Oldies would agree with me on that point.)

I respect anyone with a differing view. But, I will state firmly that I am offering facts based upon my knowledge of radio programming, radio formats and Top 40 radio history and what knowledge I have (which is rather extensive) of this area's radio market. You're welcome to disagree. But, I have the facts on my side. And some posters here, who obviously are working in the business have at least agreed with some of the most basic points with which I have offered here. Others have supported claims which I've made about some of the internal things I have been told by others about the station. I have more that I haven't said here. But, I honestly think this argument has gone far enough and it's time to lay it to rest.

 

[Radio Dav]

Another option that could be done to help an oldies station is try to be a full service station with oldies with some talking personality. Randy Michael's might be able to figure out how to make an oldies station do well with some talking personalities

Another station to name that had fairly well ratings was WNTY 92.5 in SW Florida, changed to talk weeks ago, WNTY a C2, tower around Bonita Springs had better ratings than there Hot AC, WINK 96.9 a full power C located NE of FT Myers. People there didn't exactly why they messed with WNTY, when 96.9 had the lowest rating of there stations in there cluster.

Someone mentioned that maybe they decided to do talk on WNTY was because there AM stations had poor signals at night. Those AM stations they owned were around the top 3 stations in SW Florida.

 

[KevinFodor]

Another option that could be done to help an oldies station is try to be a full service station with oldies with some talking personality. Randy Michael's might be able to figure out how to make an oldies station do well with some talking personalities

Another station to name that had fairly well ratings was WNTY 92.5 in SW Florida, changed to talk weeks ago, WNTY a C2, tower around Bonita Springs had better ratings than there Hot AC, WINK 96.9 a full power C located NE of FT Myers. People there didn't exactly why they messed with WNTY, when 96.9 had the lowest rating of there stations in there cluster.

Someone mentioned that maybe they decided to do talk on WNTY was because there AM stations had poor signals at night. Those AM stations they owned were around the top 3 stations in SW Florida.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talking personalities", but I agree with your basic premise, that on AM, where information means more (so they say) than music these days...a station that mixed informational elements such as news and talk with phone calls and an occasional song here and there might work in some markets.

Here in Dayton, the former talker 1210/WAVI did just that back, I want to say in the early 1980's before the station was sold. They called it "Talk and Memory Music". The station played, maybe 3 or 4 songs an hour, but was news/information and talk the rest of the time.

It probably wouldn't work everywhere, but in some markets, perhaps in places such as Florida and Arizona, maybe.

 

[gr8oldies]

I never quite understood the move on WAVI's part to include Music of Your Life (or any) tunes. It wasn't like they were going with a WHIO-at-the-time full service approach, and certainly the music pigeon-holed WAVI as an upper-demo station.

Last time I remember talk and news together was WVLK in Lexington, and it probably was 1996 when I drove that direction and heard the "Rhythm and News Radio Show".

 

[callletters]

I enjoyed hearing Gene "By Golly" Barry on WAVI. He actually played, They're Coming to Take Me Away Ha Haa, once.