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Defining "classic" rock

5

50kguy

KSLX this afternoon gave a spin of "Smooth" from Rob Thomas & Carlos Santana. It was a hit in 1999, just nine years ago. I say "just" because I think the phrase "Classic Rock" implies something that's been around for a considerable period of time. KSLX made a great leap forward a few months ago by adding real newscasts to AM drive. But while I do want today's news, I listen to KSLX for yesterday's music.
 
They've actually played that song for a couple of years off and on. I think they are just trying to pimp the upcoming Santana show, so they dusted it off. There's only so many times you can play 'Oye Como Va'. And I don't have an issue with the "classic", it's the "rock" that is a little light sometimes. Should be Classic "hits" with some of the stuff they play, ala Bill Withers & Linda Rondstadt (don't get me wrong, I like Bill Withers)
 
> I think the phrase "Classic Rock" implies something that's been around for a considerable period of time.


I think Classic Rock also implies to the bands that made the '60s and '70s music famous but includes their new music. i.e.: Aerosmith has created some wonderful music in the past ten years (Love in an Elevator, Janie's Got A Gun, Livin' on the Edge, Remember-Walking in the Sand, etc.), which could also be formatted as Classic Rock.

dr
 
I think Classic Rock is a 'sound' more than anything else. There's a lot of music from the 60's or 70's that doesn't fit Classic Rock at all. Anything by Neil Diamond, for example. Neil had some fine songs, but they're not Classic Rock. Over time, some artists' music has become more 'classic' (i.e. AC/DC) and some artists' music less (i.e.Doobie Bros).

A song like All Summer Long, with its samples from Warren Zevon and Sweet Home Alabama, could be played next year on a Classic Rock station and I don't think it would sound out of place at all.
 
I'm not a Neil Diamond expert but would think Coming To America easily qualifies as Classic Rock. There may be others.
 
Last week, I heard "Come As You Are" by Nirvana on KSLX.
I definitely don't consider Nirvana "Classic Rock," but maybe they're just trying to freshen it up!
???
 
KSLX definitely has an interesting mix. From the past few hours they've played a number of songs I wouldn't classify as Classic Rock including:

Mungo Jerry - In The Summertime
Bill Withers - Ain't No Sunshine
Elton John - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
Jimmy Buffett - Margaritaville
Al Stewart - Year Of The Cat
Elton John - Someone Saved My Life Tonight

dr
 
Dr. o Fun said:
> I think the phrase "Classic Rock" implies something that's been around for a considerable period of time.


I think Classic Rock also implies to the bands that made the '60s and '70s music famous but includes their new music. i.e.: Aerosmith has created some wonderful music in the past ten years (Love in an Elevator, Janie's Got A Gun, Livin' on the Edge, Remember-Walking in the Sand, etc.), which could also be formatted as Classic Rock.

dr
Click to expand...

Love In An Elevator and Janie's are TWENTY years old and are Classic Rock. So is Van Halen, Guns n Roses and Metallica. As time moves on so should the bands that are considered Classic Rock, and that means Nirvana too.

Time for some new perspective as the classic rock format and those once in that demographic age. As much is it may hurt to admit it, bands that 15 or twenty years ago that were considered "classic rock" are now....oldies.
 
Dr. o Fun said:
From the past few hours they've played a number of songs I wouldn't classify
as Classic Rock including: ...Al Stewart - Year Of The Cat...
Click to expand...

I'd give it the classic rock nod, in that K-Slacks plays the long version
(which they do on almost anything that has a long "LP" version).

Sure beats the 45 edit that KOOL plays.

I'll agree that Mungo Jerry is not classic rock, just an oldie
(or classic hit if you prefer). I've also heard KSLX play
Wilson Pickett. ::) Also definitely not classic rock.
 
The word "classic" is usually meant to mean the ground breaker of something previously unknown and becoming very popular and desired in the process.

A true classic car, for instance, is one that defines a period, technology, look, performance or other significant attribute and acquires historical importance because of that. Both the 30'd Duesenburg and the 50's VW Beetle are considered classics but for very different reasons and not merely because they are old.

It may be a bit more difficult to find that defining description in music but usually the first musician/group to clearly define something previously unknown and popular becomes the definition of classic. Jerry Lee Lewis, The Beach Boys, The Beatles and even Les Paul are all variations of classic but, again, for very different reasons.

Classic Rock has been historically used to refer to music of the 60's and 70's by artists like The Rolling Stones, Eagles, Rod Stewart and the like but there is a very wide range of music that fits into this era and genre, not all of which easily fits that rigid definition.

I've always been of the opinion that it isn't necessary for a music station to perform to a rigid genre standard because I enjoy hearing the variety of an era and not just a small sampling. KSLX, for the most part, is very agreeable to me in this respect so I don't fault their play list for stepping outside the box every now and then.
 
Has anyone else noticed that KOOL and KSLX are starting to share music? KOOL is slanting towards more Classic Rock and KSLX is adding more Classic Hits.

Back in the early 90's, when KSLX was actually tagged "Classic Hits, Classic Rock", KOOL was a direct competitor.

KSLX adding more classic hits not only puts them in more competition with KOOL, it has increased their ratings substantially.

I turned on the radio the other day and KOOL was playing "Lying Eyes". I switched to KSLX and they were playing "Lying Eyes" and finally tuned to KDKB and they were playing "Hotel California". Blech. This market certainly doesn't embrace diversity.
 
Tommy James "Mony Mony" is hardly classic rock yet KSLX has it in their vast library of 200 or so hits. Really enjoyable listening to great songs played by people who have no clue about their history. The moron on the air had NO clue what the title was all about. He should go back to the Al Collins School for wanna-bes.....
 
Landtuna,

I wasn't faulting KSLX's playlist. In fact, I spoke with the PD of KSLX just a couple weeks ago and praised him for digging deeper than most PDs do. KSLX is my first choice for music listening, too, (when I'm in Phoenix, which I'm not).

dr
 
I don't think it's necessary to rip on Al Collins School, or any school for that matter. At least people are in school, somewhere, anywhere, trying to learn something & enrich their minds.

The jokes really on you, for making fun of them, because after they're done with school, they'll get a job, and we'll still be here, blogging about the job in radio or TV that we used to have, or ever had at all.
 
Jazzbeau is one of the industry legends I am proud to have worked with. You didn't need a badge, but it was long, dark staircase to the Purple Grotto.
 
KOOL Listener Lauren said:
KSLX has a Listener Feedback page that I saw on their website, maybe a month ago, of listener emails and replies. Somebody asked a similar question.

There's an answer from the PD where he defines what he believes "classic rock" is. Might be an interesting read: http://kslx.com/Article.asp?id=397412 (at the bottom of the page)
Click to expand...

The PD had an interesting answer - from a radio business perspective - but still didn't really answer the question "What is Classic Rock?".

Owen says that songs enter and exit the definition based upon the relative age of the listener. While this may have to be true for a station to survive financially it isn't the definition of "classic". Classics, by definition, do not change. Once they attain that status (usually by common or professional acclamation) they remain in classic status forever. For example:

"Casablanca" is considered a movie classic by both fans and people within the industry. It has been for 50 years and probably will never fall out of that category. The Ford Model T is also considered a classic going on 100 years now and will also never fall out even if automobiles disappear completely. People of any age can appreciate these two examples even if they are too young to have actually lived through the period.

The same thing can be said for music but, in music 'classic' seems to be closely linked to personal experience. People who listened to the classic Big Band sound of the 40's will always consider that one of their favorite genre's, however, you have trouble finding it on the radio these days because there are so few of those people still alive. Now it is happening to those of us growing up in the Be-Bop/early rock years of the late 50's. I can't remember the last time I heard Jerry Lee Lewis or Fats Domino on the radio but they are both classics in their genre.

If Jim Owen asked my opinion I would tell him to drop the 'classic' and just go with something more generic to identify his brand. Not that it is going to affect his listeners or identity but it would remove the necessity to have the discussion we're now having.
 
landtuna said:
The PD had an interesting answer - from a radio business perspective - but still didn't really answer the question "What is Classic Rock?".
Click to expand...

The honest and simple answer, as Jim Owen said, is that there is no real specific definition. Everybody has their own ideas which may vary from person to person, station to station, and market to market. It is an answer from a "radio business perspective", but it's explaining what classic rock is for the specific station itself.

landtuna said:
Owen says that songs enter and exit the definition based upon the relative age of the listener. While this may have to be true for a station to survive financially it isn't the definition of "classic". Classics, by definition, do not change. Once they attain that status (usually by common or professional acclamation) they remain in classic status forever.
Click to expand...

I'm sure research shows that this is the way to go, too.

For radio and the format, nobody should really wholeheartedly go by one definition from a Dictionary. Even the word "classic", has several definitions that could be incorporated into the "classic" rock format.

1. a creation of the highest excellence
- Santana could have come out with a hit song in 1999, #1 on US charts, and #3 in the UK. For many,
the song is considered to be excellently mastered. This song does exist, and that's where you get
KSLX playing "Smooth". Think about this definition, and think from a business perspective that this
song is more familiar to a larger group of people, as people age. Personally, I don't see too many
cases of this in KSLX's playlist, but this could be the best reason why "Smooth" is getting played.

2. an artistic work of lasting worth
- This is more of what we all think of. In this definition of "classic", pertaining to rock, it would of course
include some of the greatest rock 'n' roll hits from the 60's, 70's, and evermore nowadays, include the
80's. Not everything from the 60's can stay, however, or it's at least up to the program director or
music director. Whatever they feel works best for the market or what research tells them.

landtuna said:
For example:

"Casablanca" is considered a movie classic by both fans and people within the industry. It has been for 50 years and probably will never fall out of that category. The Ford Model T is also considered a classic going on 100 years now and will also never fall out even if automobiles disappear completely. People of any age can appreciate these two examples even if they are too young to have actually lived through the period.
Click to expand...

I agree with you! But then again, I think of it like this: I believe radio is different. People can choose to watch hours of a movie, where it's your main focus, and you're watching the plot and settings of the story.

In radio, you only have seconds to get a listener's attention and keep them on the station. And that's where you keep the "classics" of definition 2, as well as spice up and incorporate a little of definition 1 "classics".
 
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