DMAs that should be merged into others

[nomadcowatbk]

Part of Northeast PA is in the NYC DMA, but I doubt they cover PA politics much nor do PA candidates buy time on NYC stations

 

[Poledo]

An addendum to Fybush's psychology post. Not only do we want order with an affiliate of each of the big 4 in every mid to large size city. Old timers like me (40+) also have some psychological expectation that those stations have be on old VHF allocations (which just means a VHF virtual number today)... if the CBS affiliate is on say channel 20 and the other three affiliates have VHF channels we don't bother watching CBS unless something very important is on, like say The SEC on CBS game of the week.

I spent many years between markets where I might have access to multiple NBC and CBS VHF affiliates but wouldn't even acknowledge the UHF ABC affiliate in the town 20 miles away. I didn't watch PBS unless I had cable because all the PBS stations were on UHF where I was.

I wonder how long evolution will take to change theses common thought patterns?

 

[firepoint525]

how many markets cover 4 or more states?

Thought of another one, the market just south of Paducah/Cape. Memphis stations cover TN, AR, and MS, and the bootheel of Missouri.

but I doubt their news covers the bootheel much

Memphis TV stations do indeed cover the bootheel in their weather forecasts. The Caruthersville/Hayti area is (I'm guessing here) only about 80 miles or so north of Memphis. They are definitely closer to Memphis than to Cape, and much closer to Memphis than Paducah. The bootheel includes the counties of Pemiscot and Dunklin. The bootheel does not get much coverage from any TV station because it is a very rural area and not much happens there. I'm kinda glad that they don't make news much there, because what they are best known for is the New Madrid faultline. Because of that, I am just fine with them NOT making the news there, because if they ever make news there, it will be known worldwide.

 

[charlestondxman]

Columbia was like that for decades. You had WIS with NBC, getting huge ratings, and nearly the entire state could pick it up.

19 WLTX and 25 WOLO (CBS and ABC respectively) were both very weak affiliates, some of the weakest on their networks.

6 WJBF out of Augusta was viewable in most of the Columbia area in the analog era, and a lot of people watched them. Anywhere west of Columbia, 25 was nearly invisible.

WBTW from Florence is still offered on cable as close as Sumter (30 or 35 miles from Columbia), and every CBS surrounding Columbia (Charlotte, Charleston, Florence, Greenville/Spartanburg, Augusta) was very strong, causing WLTX to be weakened.

Now with most people having cable and digital evening things out, 19 is much stronger than it was.

 

[rwells2265]

You must have lived in that area, too! You know as much about it as me! ;D I seem to recall, however, that the "regular contributor" was a woman, known for, among other things, extreme leftwing opinions. I don't know much about TV stations in Evansville, but I am aware that they (Evansville) were in our TV Guide in northwest Tennessee!

Yes - I lived in Cape Girardeau from 1978 to 1982 (late middle school/early high school years), so I do have a familiarity with that (most interesting) TV market in those years. Two words: Uncle Briggs. ;D

I found it very curious how TV GUIDE stacked Paducah-Cape-Harrisburg together with Evansville, Ind. Given its distribution territory, it should have included some "white bullet" channels from St. Louis, Jonesboro (Ark.) and possibly Nashville.

Ah, yes, I remember every night at signoff, when channel 6 would proudly tell us that their transmitter site was located in Monkey's Eyebrow, KY. Then, despite reaching up to five other states, they would play "My Old Kentucky Home" right before going on to "The Star-Spangled Banner."

I loved that old sign-off. My irritation with their preemption-happy ways notwithstanding, I was always impressed with WPSD's production values. Very good for a city its size. First time I'd ever seen an 'animated' weather map!

Oh, and I was quite fond of their on-screen weather apparatus - it resembled the ones cable systems used in the '70s. They'd sometimes super it over the legal ID, and I liked seeing the time tick away :57, :58, :59, before cutting to the network.

--Russell

 

[NeilRattigan]

I always thought there should be a few more markets. Had there been more VHF channels in the 50s, or if there had been an all-channel law for UHF ten years earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that the landscape of television would be much different today. Atlantic City, Wilmington and Allentown-Reading could have remained separate markets from Philadelphia. Long Island could be separate from New York. Cape Cod could be separate from Boston. Over the air reception is not always possible in fringe areas. Local news would be more local... like WFMZ Allentown and WMGM Atlantic City.

 

[rwells2265]

Memphis TV stations do indeed cover the bootheel in their weather forecasts.  The Caruthersville/Hayti area is (I'm guessing here) only about 80 miles or so north of Memphis.  They are definitely closer to Memphis than to Cape, and much closer to Memphis than Paducah.  The bootheel includes the counties of Pemiscot and Dunklin.   The bootheel does not get much coverage from any TV station because it is a very rural area and not much happens there.  I'm kinda glad that they don't make news much there, because what they are best known for is the New Madrid faultline.  Because of that, I am just fine with them NOT making the news there, because if they ever make news there, it will be known worldwide.   

I saw the word "psychology" mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, and in the 1980s that's how it struck this college student at Arkansas State U. in Jonesboro.  The "Bootheel" is a place onto itself -- culturally isolated from Missouri in general much in the same way the panhandle is from the rest of Florida.  It hesitates to identify with Arkansas.  Personally, I always thought of that little area as "extreme-extreme west Tennessee." 

ANYway, I was dating a woman who was from Sikeston, Mo., and when going to her house on some weekend trips, I observed TV antennas in the rural parts of the Bootheel.  You know, unscientific research that only a TV geek would think to make.  While KFVS was offered on virtually every cable system in Dunklin and Pemiscot counties - and WPSD on all but the southernmost towns, they were indeed in the Memphis DMA.  And 80-90% of those TV antennas were aimed either at Memphis, or Jonesboro (where most of the Bootheel seemed to favor for ABC, as opposed to then-affil WHBQ 13).  Scant few antennas south of US 62 and New Madrid were aimed toward Paducah or Cape Girardeau.  And it should be noted that KFVS 12 has a very tall tower.  In the analog era, 12 had a *very good* signal, so reception wasn't an issue.  Ditto for 6 in Paducah, which was no slouch, either. 

But this goes beyond television.  For various reasons, I've always picked up on a resentment toward Cape Girardeau from a lot of folks in the Bootheel.  A lot of students at Ark. State U. came from those Missouri counties (75-mile rule, so they paid in-state tuition), and when the typical "where are you from?" question came up - I very quickly learned not to say as an icebreaker that I once lived in Cape Girardeau. 

From my brief time there, the sense among Cape people was that anything south of US 60 and Sikeston was written off as "being part of Arkansas."    Sikeston straddles the line -- for a town that's barely 30 miles south of Cape Girardeau, culturally it's like 300.  Sikeston is more "Southern" in nature, while Cape Girardeau is most proudly "Midwest" in its character.

Forgive my digressing, but with that as a backdrop, it should come as no surprise that, generally speaking, Bootheel residents without cable, chose to watch Memphis and Jonesboro television over Cape and Paducah. 

--Russell

 

[firepoint525]

I saw the word "psychology" mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, and in the 1980s that's how it struck this college student at Arkansas State U. in Jonesboro. The "Bootheel" is a place onto itself -- culturally isolated from Missouri in general much in the same way the panhandle is from the rest of Florida. It hesitates to identify with Arkansas. Personally, I always thought of that little area as "extreme-extreme west Tennessee."

The bootheel is definitely an area unto itself, but I would say that it is more culturally connected to just Dyer and Lake Counties than to the rest of west Tennessee.

But this goes beyond television. For various reasons, I've always picked up on a resentment toward Cape Girardeau from a lot of folks in the Bootheel. A lot of students at Ark. State U. came from those Missouri counties (75-mile rule, so they paid in-state tuition), and when the typical "where are you from?" question came up - I very quickly learned not to say as an icebreaker that I once lived in Cape Girardeau.

Pemiscot and (I think) Dunklin, as well as Mississippi County in Arkansas got in-state tuition to Dyersburg State, as well.

From my brief time there, the sense among Cape people was that anything south of US 60 and Sikeston was written off as "being part of Arkansas." Sikeston straddles the line -- for a town that's barely 30 miles south of Cape Girardeau, culturally it's like 300. Sikeston is more "Southern" in nature, while Cape Girardeau is most proudly "Midwest" in its character.

I remember KFVS very heavily promoting the "heartland" back when I lived within reach of their signal.

Forgive my digressing, but with that as a backdrop, it should come as no surprise that, generally speaking, Bootheel residents without cable, chose to watch Memphis and Jonesboro television over Cape and Paducah.

I know, from living in northwest Tennessee (Obion Co.) what it is like to live in the very fringes of a station's coverage area. I have lived here in the Nashville area for the past 20 years, and it is a much different ballgame for me here, living in a station's core coverage area. Nearly all of the local news that I see here on TV actually pertains to me. And I know the locations of nearly every local small town mentioned in the news here, even if I haven't actually been to those towns.

 

[e-dawg]

How about these markets below. Do you think they should merge?

Eureka CA, should merge with Chico-Redding DMA market. (Eureka is too small to support it's own tv stations).
Helena MT, should merge with Great Falls MT DMA market. (Their NBC station serves both of the markets).
Bend OR, should merge with Portland or Eugene DMA market. (Bend is a very small market, the only TV stations that can support a news station is KTVZ).
Yakima-Tri-Cities WA, should merge with Spokane DMA market.
Twins Falls ID, should merge with Boise DMA market.
Glendive MT, should merge either with Great Falls or Billings DMA market.

 

[fybush]

How about these markets below. Do you think they should merge?

[snip]

I'm guessing you've never actually been to any of these places?

The concept of "DMA" is about more than just providing a roster of "local" stations to a given area. It's called a designated "marketing" area for a very good reason - because it's supposed to reflect not only the coverage of a group of TV stations, but also the natural market patterns of the advertisers those stations serve. A consumer is only going to travel so far to patronize an advertiser, and while that distance may vary a bit based on population density, it still has its limits.

Bend, for instance, may not be very big (though it's growing) - but it's a natural market center of its own, a very long way from Portland. It's about 180 miles, center-to-center, from Bend to Portland, and it's easily a three-hour drive from Bend to even the eastern edge of the Portland metro. A city of 80,000 or so may not be very large by eastern standards, but if it's the biggest thing within a 150-mile radius, you'd be surprised by how much commerce it can generate on its own. Not big enough for more than one local news operation? Maybe so...but plenty big for its own car dealerships and hospitals and banks and all sorts of other advertisers who want to be able to advertise on a local station instead of a big-city one three hours away.

Eureka's smaller still, but even more distant from Chico (4 hours) and Redding (3 hours), across a mountain range.

Helena's a state capital an hour and a half from Great Falls.

Yakima's more than three hours away from Spokane in a completely different cultural and climatic part of the state. (And it's more than an hour from the Tri-Cities, which are lumped into the same DMA but really function as a somewhat separate sales market.)

Twin Falls is about two hours from Boise and is closer culturally to Salt Lake City; I believe KSL-TV is even still on cable there.

Glendive to Great Falls? That's six solid hours of driving! (And, yes, Glendive is tiny - but also a tribute to the way one dedicated station owner can create his own market with enough decades of hard work at the task.)

In general, I doubt we'll be seeing many (or any) small DMAs merging in to bigger ones, especially at such great geographic removes. What's more likely is that we'll see more situations like Twin Falls and Bend, where a small market may have one station like KTVZ or KMVT that provides full service with local news on one or two networks, with the rest of the network lineup coming either directly from the next big market over, or via LP or full-power satellite stations that might sell local advertising but not offer much or any local news.

There was a time when the cost of running a TV station imposed a certain degree of scarcity. That time has passed. Automated master controls and cheap fiber connections make it possible to have an arrangement like the one in Yakima/Tri-Cities, where several of the "local" stations are actually controlled out of Spokane, but offer their own local newscasts to Yakima and Tri-Cities viewers with some production assistance (weather, for instance) from the motherships in Spokane.

But for the entrenched nature of existing market boundaries, it would probably make economic sense today to be dividing more markets instead of merging them. There's certainly enough population and advertising business along the northern Colorado Front Range, for instance, to imagine that a Fort Collins-Loveland-Greeley DMA could be successful on its own (and indeed, the station in nearby Cheyenne has tried to make inroads there)...but the Denver stations that have long claimed that territory for themselves aren't about to let anyone else duplicate their network service to that area. You could make the same case for fast-growing areas like northwest Arkansas (Bentonville and vicinity), 60+ miles from their "local" stations in Fort Smith, or (as we explored earlier in the thread) Pensacola-Fort Walton Beach in northwest Florida.

 

[Morgan Wick]

First, there's the desire so many denizens of these boards seem to have for precise order in all things. Radio/TV hobbyists, by and large, seem to really like lists and organization. (I have some armchair-psychologist ideas about why that might be, but that gets us off into TIO territory pretty fast, I suspect.)

This probably has to do with Nielsen (and others) imposing order where it doesn't always exist with its nice, neat market lists covering 100% of the country. In my case, this faux-order may in fact attract super-anal people obsessed with order like me. Encountering Arbitron's incomplete and overlapping radio market lists was an eye-opener for me.

And third, we live in the only large nation on Earth that puts as much of an emphasis on local broadcasting as we do. The US broadcasting system is unique in the way it filters national networks down to local audiences through a patchwork of individually-licensed stations without any mandate for total national coverage.

This definitely has to do with how bleeping large the US is and how early of a pioneer it was in television. The nations of Europe, for example, are about the size of US states, which were originally conceived as the equivalent units to European nations with the US the equivalent of the European Union. If you think of individual countries as "markets", Europe isn't really that different. It also has a lot to do with the cultural diversity of the country; there really wouldn't be much point to having separate stations for, say, Manchester and Birmingham.

An addendum to Fybush's psychology post. Not only do we want order with an affiliate of each of the big 4 in every mid to large size city. Old timers like me (40+) also have some psychological expectation that those stations have be on old VHF allocations (which just means a VHF virtual number today)... if the CBS affiliate is on say channel 20 and the other three affiliates have VHF channels we don't bother watching CBS unless something very important is on, like say The SEC on CBS game of the week.

I spent many years between markets where I might have access to multiple NBC and CBS VHF affiliates but wouldn't even acknowledge the UHF ABC affiliate in the town 20 miles away. I didn't watch PBS unless I had cable because all the PBS stations were on UHF where I was.

I wonder how long evolution will take to change theses common thought patterns?

Hell, I've never even watched television OTA on a regular basis (though my first TV did have old-fashioned dials) and I'm still affected by that magical 2-13 range. Part of this may be the inertia of popular stations remaining popular (KING, the only station in Seattle before the FCC freeze in the 40s, has been the market leader basically forever), part of it may be cable companies lumping most local stations early in the lineup and thus VHF stations are far more likely to keep their channel number (and in turn, the association of local, major-network stations getting little numbers), and part of what may keep it from evolving out is the trend towards emphasizing the channel number over the call letters in branding - see countless UHF stations branding with their cable channel or without a number at all. The best bet to reverse that trend might be cord-cutting, if it happens, with the sheer number of channels it produces at bewildering numbers.

I always thought there should be a few more markets. Had there been more VHF channels in the 50s, or if there had been an all-channel law for UHF ten years earlier, there is no doubt in my mind that the landscape of television would be much different today. Atlantic City, Wilmington and Allentown-Reading could have remained separate markets from Philadelphia. Long Island could be separate from New York. Cape Cod could be separate from Boston. Over the air reception is not always possible in fringe areas. Local news would be more local... like WFMZ Allentown and WMGM Atlantic City.

Could still happen, as Scott suggests. Markets like Alpena, where one station provides virtually all the networks through subchannels, could serve as a model. Though if Long Island were to be a separate market I'd want WLNY's transmitter to be a bit farther east (it probably moved west at some point to try to pick up more viewers from the City).

Scott's replies, for me, raise my conflicts about duopolies, localism, media consolidation, and backdoor duopolies, but those are off-topic for this thread. But they do suggest I might be on the right track when I think duopolies in larger and especially mid-size markets might be more problematic than in smaller ones, the opposite of what FCC rules currently assume.

 

[bpatrick]

You must have lived in that area, too! You know as much about it as me! ;D I seem to recall, however, that the "regular contributor" was a woman, known for, among other things, extreme leftwing opinions. I don't know much about TV stations in Evansville, but I am aware that they (Evansville) were in our TV Guide in northwest Tennessee!

Yes - I lived in Cape Girardeau from 1978 to 1982 (late middle school/early high school years), so I do have a familiarity with that (most interesting) TV market in those years. Two words: Uncle Briggs. ;D

I found it very curious how TV GUIDE stacked Paducah-Cape-Harrisburg together with Evansville, Ind. Given its distribution territory, it should have included some "white bullet" channels from St. Louis, Jonesboro (Ark.) and possibly Nashville.

Ah, yes, I remember every night at signoff, when channel 6 would proudly tell us that their transmitter site was located in Monkey's Eyebrow, KY. Then, despite reaching up to five other states, they would play "My Old Kentucky Home" right before going on to "The Star-Spangled Banner."

I loved that old sign-off. My irritation with their preemption-happy ways notwithstanding, I was always impressed with WPSD's production values. Very good for a city its size. First time I'd ever seen an 'animated' weather map!

Oh, and I was quite fond of their on-screen weather apparatus - it resembled the ones cable systems used in the '70s. They'd sometimes super it over the legal ID, and I liked seeing the time tick away :57, :58, :59, before cutting to the network.

--Russell

I thought at one time there was a Tennessee edition of TV Guide with Nashville, Memphis, Jackson, and Paducah/Cape Girardeau/Harrisburg (for viewers in northwest Tennessee).

I've known a couple of people from Cape Girardeau and when the subject of television came up, they would talk about WPSD, KFVS, even FOX23, but never, ever WSIL, like it was a poor relation.

Now, to change the subject but stay on-topic, I again argue for Lake Charles and Lafayette, LA, as one market; Lafayette has ABC, CBS, and Fox; Lake Charles has NBC (although I think it also has a Fox affiliate that could probably be changed to the CW or MyNetwork, or perhaps go independent), and I think the two markets watch each other's stations anyway.

 

[KML0224]

I still think southern New Hampshire should be split from Boston/Worcester.

I would have a smaller market with Manchester as it's center (channel 9), the state capitol of Concord (channel 21), Merrimack (channel 60) and Derry (channel 50). Keep channel 9 as ABC. Would channel 21 try CBS again? Channel 60 of Merrimack is a Telemundo station, so maybe that could be tweaked by NBC? By default, channel 50 could become FOX with a MY subchannel.

I know this isn't going to be happen, but it would be nice. The market could also include Portsmouth (crossing the bridge to Kittery, ME puts you in the Portland/Poland Spring market), Nashua, Salem, Keene and, most importantly, Brattleboro, VT. Presently, Windham County, VT is the fringe of the Boston/Worcester market. I think they'd fit a market of that type a lot better, since radio-wise, they're a natural trading partner with Keene, NH, which is in southwestern New Hampshire.

P.S. Also, Brattleboro is physically closer to Springfield, MA and Albany, NY then they are to Boston.

 

[kilamanjero]

I still think southern New Hampshire should be split from Boston/Worcester.

I would have a smaller market with Manchester as it's center (channel 9), the state capitol of Concord (channel 21), Merrimack (channel 60) and Derry (channel 50). Keep channel 9 as ABC. Would channel 21 try CBS again? Channel 60 of Merrimack is a Telemundo station, so maybe that could be tweaked by NBC? By default, channel 50 could become FOX with a MY subchannel.

I know this isn't going to be happen, but it would be nice. The market could also include Portsmouth (crossing the bridge to Kittery, ME puts you in the Portland/Poland Spring market), Nashua, Salem, Keene and, most importantly, Brattleboro, VT. Presently, Windham County, VT is the fringe of the Boston/Worcester market. I think they'd fit a market of that type a lot better, since radio-wise, they're a natural trading partner with Keene, NH, which is in southwestern New Hampshire.

P.S. Also, Brattleboro is physically closer to Springfield, MA and Albany, NY then they are to Boston.

I don't know but sometimes people would rather be in a major market than smaller one? One benefit is network O&O affiliated stations (which means few to no network preemptions) and direct knowledge of the what/whereabouts in that major city. I noticed that is why people in Cleburne and Randolph counties in Alabama watch Atlanta TV stations versus those out of Birmingham. As a result, those 2 counties are now apart of the DMA, and the stations here in Atlanta even cover those 2 counties during severe weather events. Interesting enough, they both joined the Atlanta DMA around the time Birmingham's 2 network O&O stations were sold (WBRC & WVTM).

 

[briancraig]

In the 1950s, TV Guide had one edition that served Memphis and Nashville. It was called the Tennessee edition. It also included WPSD and KFVS. Don't know where WSIL was listed in the 1950s.

In early 1960, they were separated into the Memphis edition and the Nashville edition. The Nashville edition included WPSD, KFVS and WSIL until 1962 when TV Guide created the Evansville-Paducah edition.

Viewers in Northwest Tennessee were probably better off using the Jackson Sun for tv listings which included all the Memphis stations, all the Nashville stations, WBBJ, WPSD and KFVS (but never WSIL).

 

[w9wi]

I think the widespread adoption of cable/satellite has more or less frozen DMA boundaries.

Used to be in the OTA days, viewers in outlying counties could choose which network affiliates to watch. Someone out on the edge of the Madison, Wis. market could choose whether they wanted to watch CBS on WISC-TV or WIFR; whether they wanted NBC from WMTV or WTVO; whether they wanted ABC from WKOW or WREX. If enough of those someones in a given county chose Madison stations, they could remove that county from the Rockford market & get it assigned to Madison.

(indeed, that happened in the 1980s, getting rather populous Rock County reassigned from Rockford to Madison & causing Madison to jump about 25 places on the market size rank.)

Today, if Rockford wanted Rock Co. back... well, the cable & satellite operators down there are only required to carry local market stations -- i.e., Madison -- and they sure aren't *volunteering* to give up some of their lucrative PPV or sports channels to carry an additional set of (Rockford) network affiliates.

Viewers in Rock County *cannot receive* Rockford stations. At least, the 90% or so of Rock County viewers who have cable or satellite. As long as fewer than 10% *can* receive Rockford stations, there is no chance that more than 50% *will* watch them -- and no chance Rock County will be assigned back to the Rockford market.

 

[Markxxx]

You really have to look back at the first days of TV to understand markets. Nielsen uses DMAs because older systems like Hooper, used to allow cherry picking of regions not connected, through translators.

Although a few Nielsen DMAs exist, like Denver that have non-contiguous areas, they are small. Nielsen's use of county boundaries was unique at the time. A better use would probably be zip code boundaries, but they, of course, didn't exist in the 50s.

And Nielsen's attitude has always been why change what is working. Also remember Nielsen isn't set up as a statistical survey, nor is it set up to serve viewers. It's set up to serve ADVERTISERS. If you look at it from that side, it makes more sense.

Viewers my not like that St Joesph has one station but local advertisers probably do. Localism is largely confined to news programs and even then it tends to be the same stories on different stations.

In the old days when owners were limited to seven TV stations (max 5 vhf) there was less ability to "deal" with syndicates on a regional basis so you had to program for your audience. When you're buying a show for only seven stations, there's a lot less room to negotiate than if you're buying a show for 30+ stations that reaches 1/3 of America.

I agree that DMAs have a lot of issues and there probably a better way of doing it, but I think localism in TV is also pretty much dead as well.

 

[bpatrick]

I still think southern New Hampshire should be split from Boston/Worcester.

I would have a smaller market with Manchester as it's center (channel 9), the state capitol of Concord (channel 21), Merrimack (channel 60) and Derry (channel 50). Keep channel 9 as ABC. Would channel 21 try CBS again? Channel 60 of Merrimack is a Telemundo station, so maybe that could be tweaked by NBC? By default, channel 50 could become FOX with a MY subchannel.

I know this isn't going to be happen, but it would be nice. The market could also include Portsmouth (crossing the bridge to Kittery, ME puts you in the Portland/Poland Spring market), Nashua, Salem, Keene and, most importantly, Brattleboro, VT. Presently, Windham County, VT is the fringe of the Boston/Worcester market. I think they'd fit a market of that type a lot better, since radio-wise, they're a natural trading partner with Keene, NH, which is in southwestern New Hampshire.

P.S. Also, Brattleboro is physically closer to Springfield, MA and Albany, NY then they are to Boston.

I don't know but sometimes people would rather be in a major market than smaller one? One benefit is network O&O affiliated stations (which means few to no network preemptions) and direct knowledge of the what/whereabouts in that major city. I noticed that is why people in Cleburne and Randolph counties in Alabama watch Atlanta TV stations versus those out of Birmingham. As a result, those 2 counties are now apart of the DMA, and the stations here in Atlanta even cover those 2 counties during severe weather events. Interesting enough, they both joined the Atlanta DMA around the time Birmingham's 2 network O&O stations were sold (WBRC & WVTM).

A couple of years ago a tornado hit Randolph County pretty hard, but the Atlanta stations had little if anything to say about it
(WSB and WXIA made brief mentions, IIRC). At that point, some folks in Randolph began petitioning their representative in Congress to have the county (and perhaps, by extension, Cleburne) moved into the Birmingham DMA. I think the reason the two counties were placed in the Atlanta DMA goes back to the early days, when WSB and WAGA (on 2 and 5 respectively) put stronger signals into the counties than did WBRC and WVTM (6 and 13), But if you look at the cable lineups today, WSB and WAGA are missing (although WXIA and WGCL are carried), yet all the Birmingham stations are carried. So maybe it is indeed time to make the Alabama-Georgia state line the dividing point between DMAs.

 

[kilamanjero]

I still think southern New Hampshire should be split from Boston/Worcester.

I would have a smaller market with Manchester as it's center (channel 9), the state capitol of Concord (channel 21), Merrimack (channel 60) and Derry (channel 50). Keep channel 9 as ABC. Would channel 21 try CBS again? Channel 60 of Merrimack is a Telemundo station, so maybe that could be tweaked by NBC? By default, channel 50 could become FOX with a MY subchannel.

I know this isn't going to be happen, but it would be nice. The market could also include Portsmouth (crossing the bridge to Kittery, ME puts you in the Portland/Poland Spring market), Nashua, Salem, Keene and, most importantly, Brattleboro, VT. Presently, Windham County, VT is the fringe of the Boston/Worcester market. I think they'd fit a market of that type a lot better, since radio-wise, they're a natural trading partner with Keene, NH, which is in southwestern New Hampshire.

P.S. Also, Brattleboro is physically closer to Springfield, MA and Albany, NY then they are to Boston.

I don't know but sometimes people would rather be in a major market than smaller one? One benefit is network O&O affiliated stations (which means few to no network preemptions) and direct knowledge of the what/whereabouts in that major city. I noticed that is why people in Cleburne and Randolph counties in Alabama watch Atlanta TV stations versus those out of Birmingham. As a result, those 2 counties are now apart of the DMA, and the stations here in Atlanta even cover those 2 counties during severe weather events. Interesting enough, they both joined the Atlanta DMA around the time Birmingham's 2 network O&O stations were sold (WBRC & WVTM).

A couple of years ago a tornado hit Randolph County pretty hard, but the Atlanta stations had little if anything to say about it
(WSB and WXIA made brief mentions, IIRC). At that point, some folks in Randolph began petitioning their representative in Congress to have the county (and perhaps, by extension, Cleburne) moved into the Birmingham DMA. I think the reason the two counties were placed in the Atlanta DMA goes back to the early days, when WSB and WAGA (on 2 and 5 respectively) put stronger signals into the counties than did WBRC and WVTM (6 and 13), But if you look at the cable lineups today, WSB and WAGA are missing (although WXIA and WGCL are carried), yet all the Birmingham stations are carried. So maybe it is indeed time to make the Alabama-Georgia state line the dividing point between DMAs.

I don't know about that one because in Wedowee, Charter is the main cable provider and carries nothing but Atlanta TV stations on the basic and digital line up with th exception of WSFA out of Montgomery. Whereas in Heflin in Cleburne County, they do carry both cities stations. If either of them were to move it would likely be Cleburne because it more direct ties to Anniston than Randolph that seems to just lean more towards Atlanta flat out.

 

[rwells2265]

In the 1950s, TV Guide had one edition that served Memphis and Nashville. It was called the Tennessee edition.  It also included WPSD and KFVS.  Don't know where WSIL was listed in the 1950s.

In early 1960, they were separated into the Memphis edition and the Nashville edition. The Nashville edition included WPSD, KFVS and WSIL until 1962 when TV Guide created the Evansville-Paducah edition.

Viewers in Northwest Tennessee were probably better off using the Jackson Sun for tv listings which included all the Memphis stations, all the Nashville stations, WBBJ, WPSD and KFVS (but never WSIL).

It's likely that WSIL wasn't listed because prior to 1959, the station was on UHF (Channel 22).   That year, it moved to analog ch. 3.   Even then, with it being short-spaced to WREG/Memphis, its coverage was/is virtually non-existent south of the Ky.-Tenn. line, except - I can only assume - Dish and DirecTV customers in Lake/Weakley/Obion in Tennessee.   Otherwise, in those counties, ABC defaults to WBBJ 7/Jackson on the Tennessee side, and KAIT 8/Jonesboro in the Bootheel.  

WSIL 3's signal in general was less than optimal.   Cable didn't come to our neighborhood in Cape Girardeau until early 1981, so we had no choice but to rely on OTA.    We were on a hill and blessed with a good rooftop aerial.   It brought us reliable (if fuzzy) signals from the nets in St. Louis (KSD 5 was good for catching what WPSD preempted ... and for being able to watch SNL in pattern!!).   Anyway, WPSD was strong no matter which direction the antenna was pointed, but you had to have those elements aimed *exactly* in the direction of WSIL's transmitter for it to be a clear picture.   If you weren't in that g-spot, you got a bit of snow in the mix.   On windy days it was not pleasant.  

I know we've touched on WSIL ("Whistle TV", as "Uncle" Briggs Gordon sometimes called it on his afternoon show), but it bears mentioning again how crazy it was for a small town like Harrisburg, Illinois to have its own VHF network affiliate.   Trust me, at the time WSIL looked like it came out of a city barely 10,000 in size!!!

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Back to KFVS 12 for a minute.   It's amazing how far away it was carried -- As late as 1994, 12 was on cable all the way over in Paris, Tennessee.    That year we were staying in a motel, and while getting ready to meet an old friend of mine, my then-wife had the TV on some CBS program, and I heard the KFVS legal ID.   I damn near cut myself shaving!   I figured the main CBS would be WTVF 5 in Nashville and/or WREG 3 in Memphis.   It didn't feel like we were that close to Cape.  

--Russell