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FM Talk in Buffalo
- Thread starter jas2525
- Start date
D
ddavis
Guest
"Im hitching a ride nowadays more than driving
and two diff. cars had it on 930, i asked why not 107.7
[the people I asked werent 'radio guys'] soo they didnt
care about the audio quality on the mid-range, thru the speakers"
I have to agree, the sound quality is bad, I'd much rather listen on 930am if I listen at all
and two diff. cars had it on 930, i asked why not 107.7
[the people I asked werent 'radio guys'] soo they didnt
care about the audio quality on the mid-range, thru the speakers"
I have to agree, the sound quality is bad, I'd much rather listen on 930am if I listen at all
I would LOVE to see 107.7
(this new years) flippp to....
(this new years) flippp to....
Radio_bored-Op said:I would LOVE to see 107.7
(this new years) flippp to....
Listen! 107.7 is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to flip to anything, either in the new year or the year after that. Tim Wenger is on record as saying he's long advocated for an FM presence for WBEN. Unfortunately, Arbitron is combining 107.7's number with WBEN so we won't be able to see how well the FM simulcast is performing. But again, it won't be changing. I know you're posting, perhaps, a fun question, "Radio Bored Op." But I would respectfully suggest that your question needs to be based on some reality. And in this case, it's not! 107.7 is going to feature WBEN's news-talk for some time to come.
Philip:
1. it may have been "fun" but I didnt know that was
stated on record that WBEN-FM is a SERIOUS long term plan
-
2. it wasnt fun, as more of a somewhat serious inquiry,
think (not this market) but how other cities "do it right"
station doesnt FLIP right away, but needs HELP/FAST
(no make that ASAP) so as a "temp" fix it does place an AM
station on FM for a length of time until :
(a) a more timely flip would occur (ie: new years)
(b) the research comes back and leans the direction of new format
(c) contracts of big name talents can be finalized
(etc)
3. now this may be wishful thinking but yes, there
should be a "shakeup" considering what e-comm pd for that stick
4. and am930 In this market has such a HOLD would make sense
not to 'waste' an FM frequencey but, since radio is a business -
use it as another revenue money maker
guess im wrong.
no hard feelings, but that is why I thought
in a short amount of time there would be
some thing new on 107.7
1. it may have been "fun" but I didnt know that was
stated on record that WBEN-FM is a SERIOUS long term plan
-
2. it wasnt fun, as more of a somewhat serious inquiry,
think (not this market) but how other cities "do it right"
station doesnt FLIP right away, but needs HELP/FAST
(no make that ASAP) so as a "temp" fix it does place an AM
station on FM for a length of time until :
(a) a more timely flip would occur (ie: new years)
(b) the research comes back and leans the direction of new format
(c) contracts of big name talents can be finalized
(etc)
3. now this may be wishful thinking but yes, there
should be a "shakeup" considering what e-comm pd for that stick
4. and am930 In this market has such a HOLD would make sense
not to 'waste' an FM frequencey but, since radio is a business -
use it as another revenue money maker
guess im wrong.
no hard feelings, but that is why I thought
in a short amount of time there would be
some thing new on 107.7
Entercom's facing a net loss from killing "The Lake" and simulcasting WBEN. The numbers that the combo is racking up are almost identical to what WBEN alone has been doing. Personally, I don't see any advantage to the simulcast because the audience that the current talk line-up is going to attract is very familiar with AM radio. Younger audiences who shun AM will also shun the current talk content.
With that said, a change would require Greg Greed to admit a mistake. Anybody want to speculate on the odds of THAT happening?
With that said, a change would require Greg Greed to admit a mistake. Anybody want to speculate on the odds of THAT happening?
G
GeorgeKramer
Guest
Let Ken Hamilton, the guy Sandy has on his show once a week on Tuesdays, do a show on the weekends on 107.7 FM and see how that goes.
Better yet, let Ken replace Kathy!
Better yet, let Ken replace Kathy!
GeorgeKramer said:Let Ken Hamilton, the guy Sandy has on his show once a week on Tuesdays, do a show on the weekends on 107.7 FM and see how that goes.
Better yet, let Ken replace Kathy!
I like that.
That Saturday Kathy show personifies a big part of what is wrong with talkradio today. Of course the station takes no responsability for what that imbecile says.
G
GeorgeKramer
Guest
One of my biggest problems with Kathy isn't so much related to her politics (which I don't often agree with and at times don't really understand) but her poor broadcasting skills.
She shrieks, she stumbles, she mutters, she cuts off callers and interview subjects, she misses the top and bottom of the hour breaks for news, etc.
Try and listen this week. It's tough on the ears if you are just talking about broadcast standards and expectations, not to mention the questionable subject matter and personal viewpoints of the Tea Party variety.
She shrieks, she stumbles, she mutters, she cuts off callers and interview subjects, she misses the top and bottom of the hour breaks for news, etc.
Try and listen this week. It's tough on the ears if you are just talking about broadcast standards and expectations, not to mention the questionable subject matter and personal viewpoints of the Tea Party variety.
GeorgeKramer said:One of my biggest problems with Kathy isn't so much related to her politics (which I don't often agree with and at times don't really understand) but her poor broadcasting skills.
She shrieks, she stumbles, she mutters, she cuts off callers and interview subjects, she misses the top and bottom of the hour breaks for news, etc.
Try and listen this week. It's tough on the ears if you are just talking about broadcast standards and expectations, not to mention the questionable subject matter and personal viewpoints of the Tea Party variety.
True. She is quite the train wreck.
What really makes her presence more rificulous, is that WBEN is the only game in town, unlike many other markets where there is solid talk competition. In other words, WBEN can afford to be reasonable in their air content. They don't need to pander to the far right with birther type nonsense, etc. As it is, they already get many non far-righties by default. Imagine how much better they'd do by not turning off the rational populous who can't stomach the extreme one-sidedness.
jas2525 said:What really makes her presence more rificulous, is that WBEN is the only game in town, unlike many other markets where there is solid talk competition.
Really? Solid talk competition? Like where?
Let's look at Los Angeles, the media capital of America. The #1 station is Clear Channel's talk station KFI. So who is the "solid talk competion?" KABC? Are you kidding? The Dodgers just quit them!
In Chicago, you have the legendary WGN. Always a market leader. Who is their "solid talk competition?" WLS? Really? Cumulus is doing better in Chicago than LA, but that's not saying much. In DC, the NPR station is killing the commercial stations. Where is the "solid talk competition?" Once again, it's Cumulus in 20th place. Call that solid?
Let's go to a market of similar size to Buffalo: Hartford. Near the top of the pack, you have WTIC. So who's the "solid talk competition?" Head down to Tampa, and you see the same thing with WFLA. Who dares to compete with KMOX in St Louis?
Sure there are a couple markets where there is a talk alternative. Pittsburgh, Seattle, and New Orleans. But the competitor is on FM, not AM.
It's not a function of ownership. There are lots of competing owners in all these other markets. What there's a shortage of is "solid talk competition." I believe the AM dial can only sustain one talk station. If Entercom sold KB, I have serious doubts that a new owner could come up with comptitive programming to make it worth doing financially. Especially if the new owner went with all live & local staff. The REAL talk competition, as I look around the country, isn't coming from commercial AM radio. But NPR. In Boston, San Francisco, and Minneapolis. And they're doing it with national news shows and interview shows. Not the single host, conservative talk format that's been dominating AM for the past 20 years. And conservatives want to shut 'em down.
TheBigA said:jas2525 said:What really makes her presence more rificulous, is that WBEN is the only game in town, unlike many other markets where there is solid talk competition.
Really? Solid talk competition? Like where?
Let's look at Los Angeles, the media capital of America. The #1 station is Clear Channel's talk station KFI. So who is the "solid talk competion?" KABC? Are you kidding? The Dodgers just quit them!
In Chicago, you have the legendary WGN. Always a market leader. Who is their "solid talk competition?" WLS? Really? Cumulus is doing better in Chicago than LA, but that's not saying much. In DC, the NPR station is killing the commercial stations. Where is the "solid talk competition?" Once again, it's Cumulus in 20th place. Call that solid?
Let's go to a market of similar size to Buffalo: Hartford. Near the top of the pack, you have WTIC. So who's the "solid talk competition?" Head down to Tampa, and you see the same thing with WFLA. Who dares to compete with KMOX in St Louis?
Sure there are a couple markets where there is a talk alternative. Pittsburgh, Seattle, and New Orleans. But the competitor is on FM, not AM.
It's not a function of ownership. There are lots of competing owners in all these other markets. What there's a shortage of is "solid talk competition." I believe the AM dial can only sustain one talk station. If Entercom sold KB, I have serious doubts that a new owner could come up with comptitive programming to make it worth doing financially. Especially if the new owner went with all live & local staff. The REAL talk competition, as I look around the country, isn't coming from commercial AM radio. But NPR. In Boston, San Francisco, and Minneapolis. And they're doing it with national news shows and interview shows. Not the single host, conservative talk format that's been dominating AM for the past 20 years. And conservatives want to shut 'em down.
Wow, take a chill pill. I do suggest you learn the real-time dynamics of a given market before you go off.
Many of those other markets you mentioned, whether YOU consider the top newstalker to have real competition or not, DO have more than one owner in the format. THAT is a lot different than one owner, by design, creating the defacto champ.
I think you're just still upset after I trounced you in our last discussion.
I do think you make good points in some of your OTHER unrelated arguments, so let's get past this, shall we?
jas2525 said:Many of those other markets you mentioned, whether YOU consider the top newstalker to have real competition or not, DO have more than one owner in the format. THAT is a lot different than one owner, by design, creating the defacto champ.
But if there are multiple different market situations, some with ownership competition and one without, lead to the same results, then it wasn't caused by an ownership situation.
WBEN has come under some criticism on this board for putting its signal on FM, but doing little from a programming perspective to attract the younger audience that would presumably be interested in tuning in 107.7 FM. I don't disagree with that at all. But I can't blame WBEN for keeping its programming as is. For now, its morning news and talk show hosts continue to deliver an audience. Granted, it's growing older by the day. But WBEN is still a force. So, I don't see them making any change in the immediate future that would affect that dynamic. As such, the station might not attract much more of an audience at 107.7FM. But even then, we can't know that as long as Arbitron is combining the shares from AM and FM into a single rating for WBEN.
The problem with the talk radio format is that it's entering its 25th year with the same modus operandi. Rush Limbaugh changed everything with his arrival in 1988. There was talk radio before that. But in Buffalo, it was relegated to evenings with John Otto's legendary program, "Extension 55," on WGR. KB's attempt to introduce talk during daytime hours failed miserably with Andy Thomas' talk show in 1986. But with Rush leading the way, both WBEN and WGR -- and stations across the nation -- introduced talk programs modeled after what Rush was doing by presenting white male hosts who spouted a conservative viewpoint. It brought stations high ratings and has worked. But 25 years later, it's getting stale. And younger people are not tuning in.
I don't know what the next model for talk radio will be -- one that will attract a younger audience. Perhaps Shredd and Ragan are pioneers in this regard. Obviously, their afternoon show attracts a respectable audience. And younger male listeners tend to enjoy the sports talk format.
What hasn't really worked is progressive, left-leaning talk. Air America was a failure. And even though Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz and Randy Rhodes might have somewhat of a following, they're not having the impact that Rush continues to have from the right.
Indeed, Big A correctly points out that public radio draws a sizeable audience in many big cities. But Buffalo is still a blue collar town. I've always argued that WBFO might have hit a wall when it comes to attracting an audience because we just don't have large numbers of college-educated, life long learners that you'll find in Boston or San Francisco.
So, the challenge for talk radio programmers is to find that "thing" that will resonate with younger listeners, like Rush did in the late '80s. IMO, his time has passed. What had been a very engaging show during his first few years on the air has devolved into the extemist rantings of an angry old white man. He still has tremendous influence. But as our esteemed colleague on this board, Bob Smith, has pointed out here, his ratings are not what they once were. And at some point, stations like WBEN will have to begin making decisions on their future direction.
Well, I've rambled on enough here. I know I don't have the answers (otherwise, I'd be implementing them and making millions). But I thought I'd open the door for some of you great minds on this board who might have some thoughts on where talk radio, especially on FM, goes from here.
The problem with the talk radio format is that it's entering its 25th year with the same modus operandi. Rush Limbaugh changed everything with his arrival in 1988. There was talk radio before that. But in Buffalo, it was relegated to evenings with John Otto's legendary program, "Extension 55," on WGR. KB's attempt to introduce talk during daytime hours failed miserably with Andy Thomas' talk show in 1986. But with Rush leading the way, both WBEN and WGR -- and stations across the nation -- introduced talk programs modeled after what Rush was doing by presenting white male hosts who spouted a conservative viewpoint. It brought stations high ratings and has worked. But 25 years later, it's getting stale. And younger people are not tuning in.
I don't know what the next model for talk radio will be -- one that will attract a younger audience. Perhaps Shredd and Ragan are pioneers in this regard. Obviously, their afternoon show attracts a respectable audience. And younger male listeners tend to enjoy the sports talk format.
What hasn't really worked is progressive, left-leaning talk. Air America was a failure. And even though Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz and Randy Rhodes might have somewhat of a following, they're not having the impact that Rush continues to have from the right.
Indeed, Big A correctly points out that public radio draws a sizeable audience in many big cities. But Buffalo is still a blue collar town. I've always argued that WBFO might have hit a wall when it comes to attracting an audience because we just don't have large numbers of college-educated, life long learners that you'll find in Boston or San Francisco.
So, the challenge for talk radio programmers is to find that "thing" that will resonate with younger listeners, like Rush did in the late '80s. IMO, his time has passed. What had been a very engaging show during his first few years on the air has devolved into the extemist rantings of an angry old white man. He still has tremendous influence. But as our esteemed colleague on this board, Bob Smith, has pointed out here, his ratings are not what they once were. And at some point, stations like WBEN will have to begin making decisions on their future direction.
Well, I've rambled on enough here. I know I don't have the answers (otherwise, I'd be implementing them and making millions). But I thought I'd open the door for some of you great minds on this board who might have some thoughts on where talk radio, especially on FM, goes from here.
Philip_Airtime said:So, the challenge for talk radio programmers is to find that "thing" that will resonate with younger listeners, like Rush did in the late '80s.
I agree with everything in your post, and the problem right now is that no one has come up with anything that attracts the kind of audience that conservative talk attracts. Except sports. So any competitition in the talk world will either be conservative talk or sports. Buffalo has that covered with BEN and GR. Not much left for a competitor to provide in that realm.
Personally, I think there's a huge opening for entertainment interviews. The new Larry King. In LA, there was Michael Jackson. No one seems to be doing that. It's a huge business on TV. Everyone is rushing out to do TV talk shows with in studio guests. And only NPR is doing that on the radio.
Think the BEST thing we need to do
for insight on this topic about TALK
is too stop and LISTEN
Get post-ers on this forum
the people (were Buffalo-ians) and
then moved away,
and allow them to post -
some folks live, breath
and work and play soo close
to the "air pollution" a fresh take
is just what we need
for insight on this topic about TALK
is too stop and LISTEN
Get post-ers on this forum
the people (were Buffalo-ians) and
then moved away,
and allow them to post -
some folks live, breath
and work and play soo close
to the "air pollution" a fresh take
is just what we need
Wow. Mark & "TheBigA" just glossed right over what may well be the "future of talk" while promoting a continuation of the status quo on WBEN. Both gave a glance in the direction of Shredd and Ragan, who are delivering more than respectable numbers, then failed to recognize that they're showing that they ARE the new direction in non-sports talk radio.
As far as WBEN is concerned, what do they have to lose? C'mon, 'fess up. Beach and Bauerle are an act. They lean hard right because that's what they're asked to do as bookends for Rush. Bauerle in particular may turn off as many listeners as he turns on, simply because he doesn't have the reservoir of good will that Sandy has from his days on 'KB. If management told the B&B boys that it's time to go after a younger audience - say 35-54 instead of 50-Death, they'd either adjust, or we'd be singing somebody's swan song while Ron Dobson waited in the wings.
If that happened, would the current WBEN listeners abandon the station in droves? Where else would they go? WBEN is in the position where they would have a hard time losing their current audience if they at least attempt to broaden their talk spectrum and attract some new listeners. That's something that they might want to consider, especially if Cumulus pulls a bonehead move like cutting Shredd & Ragan loose.
As far as WBEN is concerned, what do they have to lose? C'mon, 'fess up. Beach and Bauerle are an act. They lean hard right because that's what they're asked to do as bookends for Rush. Bauerle in particular may turn off as many listeners as he turns on, simply because he doesn't have the reservoir of good will that Sandy has from his days on 'KB. If management told the B&B boys that it's time to go after a younger audience - say 35-54 instead of 50-Death, they'd either adjust, or we'd be singing somebody's swan song while Ron Dobson waited in the wings.
If that happened, would the current WBEN listeners abandon the station in droves? Where else would they go? WBEN is in the position where they would have a hard time losing their current audience if they at least attempt to broaden their talk spectrum and attract some new listeners. That's something that they might want to consider, especially if Cumulus pulls a bonehead move like cutting Shredd & Ragan loose.
SirRoxalot said:Wow. Mark & "TheBigA" just glossed right over what may well be the "future of talk" while promoting a continuation of the status quo on WBEN. Both gave a glance in the direction of Shredd and Ragan, who are delivering more than respectable numbers, then failed to recognize that they're showing that they ARE the new direction in non-sports talk radio.
I'm not personally promoting the continuation of the status quo on WBEN. It's just that the model for talk radio in this country -- at WBEN and at talk stations across the country -- is right-wing conservative talk. So, until that changes, I understand why WBEN would continue with what's working. But I agree, Rox, that if the unthinkable were to happen -- Cumulus jettisoning Shredd and Ragan -- it might be in WBEN's best interest to bring them on board. The next few months, if not weeks, will bring an answer to that.
Philip_Airtime said:I'm not personally promoting the continuation of the status quo on WBEN. It's just that the model for talk radio in this country -- at WBEN and at talk stations across the country -- is right-wing conservative talk. So, until that changes, I understand why WBEN would continue with what's working. But I agree, Rox, that if the unthinkable were to happen -- Cumulus jettisoning Shredd and Ragan -- it might be in WBEN's best interest to bring them on board. The next few months, if not weeks, will bring an answer to that.
As I've mentioned before, WBEN, having no real challenger, IS in a position to broaden it's appeal.
For the same reason that people who aren't far right wingers listen, those who ARE far righties will also have nowhere else to go should WBEN dare to air reasonable entertainers who reflect a more common mentality, ie; every issues judged by itself, irrespective to some extreme and rigid ideology.
Only on today's talkradio do you hear people who think all one way on everything. I honestly don't know anybody in real life who thinks like that. Not a sole. That's because most real people aren't consumed with appearing "consistant" with some ideology. I'm so tired of talkradio being such an insult to reasonable people.
By the way, NOT being an ideologue does NOT mean you don't have passion and fire for the issues being discussed.
In my estimation, the future of talk radio will depend on successfully incorporating the shift-on-the-fly flexibility exhibited by Shredd & Ragan, who are adept at transitioning from sports and guy talk to topical issues, humor and critical news.
The ability to examine both sides of an issue, as demonstrated by NPR, will become more important too. To attract more 25-44s, talk radio will have to rely less on political dogma (all left/all right/all the time) which younger listeners often find contrived and boring. The discovery and use of unique, unusual, topics will help a good host reach out to new listeners. Ron Dobson avoids talking about politics because he finds it boring; more often alienating than enticing. Earlier this week Tom Bauerle addressed the Sabres switch from Ryan Miller to Jhonas Enroth in goal, using a parallel to a salesman who goes from red hot to ice cold. Interesting.
Another concept that I hear coming to the fore is dedicating (only) an hour to topics and moving to another topic. The John & Ken Show employed this technique years ago when it was in syndication. On Point, To The Point, Tell Me More and All Things Considered heard on NPR use it as well and it keeps the programs fresh and compelling.
The consistent use of clear soundbites to frame a topic, refresh a topic, rebut or re-direct the topic is absolutely essential. Good, compelling, bonding talk radio cannot be done without a well-informed, aggressive show producer.
It's also critically important to promote on a vertical ("later in the show/next hour") and horizontal ("tomorrow on the show") plain. Music stations have this concept down to a science, but it's sometimes overlooked or not properly executed by talk stations. John Tesh doesn't get a lot of cume or TSL from me, but the man knows how to set the table, explain the menu and serve the meal.
The ability to examine both sides of an issue, as demonstrated by NPR, will become more important too. To attract more 25-44s, talk radio will have to rely less on political dogma (all left/all right/all the time) which younger listeners often find contrived and boring. The discovery and use of unique, unusual, topics will help a good host reach out to new listeners. Ron Dobson avoids talking about politics because he finds it boring; more often alienating than enticing. Earlier this week Tom Bauerle addressed the Sabres switch from Ryan Miller to Jhonas Enroth in goal, using a parallel to a salesman who goes from red hot to ice cold. Interesting.
Another concept that I hear coming to the fore is dedicating (only) an hour to topics and moving to another topic. The John & Ken Show employed this technique years ago when it was in syndication. On Point, To The Point, Tell Me More and All Things Considered heard on NPR use it as well and it keeps the programs fresh and compelling.
The consistent use of clear soundbites to frame a topic, refresh a topic, rebut or re-direct the topic is absolutely essential. Good, compelling, bonding talk radio cannot be done without a well-informed, aggressive show producer.
It's also critically important to promote on a vertical ("later in the show/next hour") and horizontal ("tomorrow on the show") plain. Music stations have this concept down to a science, but it's sometimes overlooked or not properly executed by talk stations. John Tesh doesn't get a lot of cume or TSL from me, but the man knows how to set the table, explain the menu and serve the meal.
- Status
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