Format Flip Los Angeles Should Be

[ronkaram]

The second poster to this subject said 103.1 failed with a dance format. From what I remember, the first time the station was bought by Clear Channel who dumped it because Roy Laughlin claimed that most of the listeners also listened to KIIS, then flipped it to a format that had lower ratings. The second time, Clear Channel offered to help sell air time if it flipped to another format, which still exists with about half the ratings that it had with dance.

 

[john77]

104.3MYFM is indeed a Hot AC/Adult Top 40 station---no doubt about it, since no AC station can play Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, David Bowie, Bon Jovi, Young MC and Def Leppard under any cicumstances.

Speaking of MYFM, check out this little "gem" of a sample - caught most of this (unfortunately) during the drive home from work this evening:

6:12 PM AFTER THE FIRE Der Kommissar Epic
6:09 PM BEYONCE Irreplaceable Music World/Columbia
6:04 PM SUPERTRAMP Goodbye Stranger A&M
6:01 PM MAROON 5 Won't Go Home Without You A&M/Octone/Interscope
5:57 PM COLBIE CAILLAT Bubbly Universal Republic
5:47 PM ALANIS MORISSETTE Ironic Maverick
5:43 PM KELLY CLARKSON Because Of You RCA/RMG
5:41 PM YVONNE ELLIMAN If I Can't Have You RSO
5:37 PM ONEREPUBLIC Stop & Stare Mosley/Interscope
5:33 PM 3 DOORS DOWN When I'm Gone Universal Republic
5:29 PM GAVIN ROSSDALE Love Remains The Same Interscope

You might play those two songs in a mid-day, weekend or on specialty programming... but in your regular drive-time rotation??? WHO the heck is programming this station??? No wonder these guys can't crack a 2.0 12+!!!

 

[davideduardo]

[You might play those two songs in a mid-day, weekend or on specialty programming... but in your regular drive-time rotation??? WHO the heck is programming this station??? No wonder these guys can't crack a 2.0 12+!!!

Wait till you see it's PPM numbers... there is a reason why KYSR and KBIG have not been touched as PPM rolls out!

 

[davideduardo]

The second time, Clear Channel offered to help sell air time if it flipped to another format, which still exists with about half the ratings that it had with dance.

And a the new format, with a little better ratings than it had as dance (0.3 average for '03 when it was dance, vs. 0.5 average for Alternative) bills 4 to 5 times as much in today's format, around $8.8 million in 2007 vs a million and change for dance.

Clear did not offer to help sell air time, they entered into a JSA and took charge of 100% of the sales effort for Entravision who this did not have to hire a general market sales team.

 

[john77]

[You might play those two songs in a mid-day, weekend or on specialty programming... but in your regular drive-time rotation??? WHO the heck is programming this station??? No wonder these guys can't crack a 2.0 12+!!!

Wait till you see it's PPM numbers... there is a reason why KYSR and KBIG have not been touched as PPM rolls out!

Interesting... and should we even bother to inquire about KMVN's PPM #'s???

 

[radi0active]

Wait till you see it's PPM numbers... there is a reason why KYSR and KBIG have not been touched as PPM rolls out!

Wait, KBIG hasn't been touched? There might be a couple of people out of jobs that would disagree...

 

[davideduardo]

Wait, KBIG hasn't been touched? There might be a couple of people out of jobs that would disagree...

They are still relatively close to their ongoing formats. Adjusted a bit? Yes. Total format change and relaunch? No.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Does anyone know what percentage of the music KYSR currently plays was in their library last fall when CC repositioned both KYSR & KBIG?

IIRC, KYSR was listed as a Hot AC station back then, as opposed to being listed as an Alternative station now.

KOST sounds a heck of a lot worse now than it did before that bloodbath last Christmas.

John--I totally agree about KBIG; Hot AC should be the best sounding format out there since top 40 ceased being a 'mass appeal' format (a disastrous trend started by KIIS two decades ago), but it can't really be as exhilirating as KIIS was between 1982-88 because it would take a hefty bite out of CCs other properties.

 

[john77]

Does anyone know what percentage of the music KYSR currently plays was in their library last fall when CC repositioned both KYSR & KBIG?

IIRC, KYSR was listed as a Hot AC station back then, as opposed to being listed as an Alternative station now.

KOST sounds a heck of a lot worse now than it did before that bloodbath last Christmas.

John--I totally agree about KBIG; Hot AC should be the best sounding format out there since top 40 ceased being a 'mass appeal' format (a disastrous trend started by KIIS two decades ago), but it can't really be as exhilirating as KIIS was between 1982-88 because it would take a hefty bite out of CCs other properties.

For KYSR, a rough estimate would be that about 30% of what they play now is stuff that was in their library before the format switch...

I do agree about KOST sounding a lot worse since the "bloodbath" as well... the one thing that I notice the most is that they spin their heavy currents about 3 1/2 times a day as opposed to 2 1/2 times a day as before. The flow of the station isn't at all what it once was and they make a lot more "mistakes" with songs than they used to. For example, they added Mariah Carey's "Bye Bye" right into heavy rotation when it came out... not wise, given that it wasn't at all a quality song (even her die-hard fans will tell you it shouldn't have been a single). KOST is no longer the "well-oiled machine" that was looked upon as the model of what an AC should be - or anything close to it.

KBIG has so much potential, but the beancounters just don't seem to want to do the legwork... something like Prince's "I Wanna Be Your Lover" or "Little Red Corvette" (as they played tonight) will work just fine during PM drive, but some of that gold they played during drivetime last night was just beyond questionable... and just what is Outkast's "Hey Ya" doing there right before 5pm? It just seems like they're trying to be everything to everyone and they're not focused. Do I have confidence they will ever get it together? Sadly, No.

 

[MarkW]

104.3MYFM is indeed a Hot AC/Adult Top 40 station---no doubt about it, since no AC station can play Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, David Bowie, Bon Jovi, Young MC and Def Leppard under any cicumstances.

If you think Bon Jovi is incompatible with AC, I suggest you do a little research. There are plenty of places across the country where Bon Jovi fits the AC demographic like a glove.

I have no problem calling MyFM a Hot AC, but it certainly is not an "Adult CHR" in my book. The music is too mellow & they play a decent amount of old gold.

I know a lot of people use the terms interchangably, but I view Adult CHR as being more tightly playlisted, more current / recurrent oriented, and somewhat more aggressive musically than Hot AC.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

But its not always about selling the numbers with stations like indie 1031 it is about selling a story a vibe a lifestyle if one can do that the format doesn't matter with the right sales staff. With that said i liekd the party station but i like indie better and i bet it brings in more revenue.The numbers are secondary for a station like indie.

 

[Indielover]

But its not always about selling the numbers with stations like indie 1031 it is about selling a story a vibe a lifestyle if one can do that the format doesn't matter with the right sales staff. With that said i liekd the party station but i like indie better and i bet it brings in more revenue.The numbers are secondary for a station like indie.

All the more better for us...we get to continue enjoying what is possibly the best station anywhere ever...one that explores all different genres of music...including dance...

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Now that KKGO is tied for eighteenth in the market with a 1.9 share, KMVN's performance ratings-wise. keeps looking worse and worse.

KMVN is almost two years old--does Emmis have any hope for this disaster once they 'blow it up?'

 

[Rebafan]

Now that KKGO is tied for eighteenth in the market with a 1.9 share, KMVN's performance ratings-wise. keeps looking worse and worse.

KMVN is almost two years old--does Emmis have any hope for this disaster once they 'blow it up?'

PPM's show KKGO at 2.7 for June, Haven't seen the July PPM's that were to be released today, but I think that the above PPM and the Diary rating being 1.9 show that Emmis made a HUGE error...

 

[davideduardo]

PPM's show KKGO at 2.7 for June,

The June PPM data is test data, not even pre-currency. In the sales demos, 25-44, KKGO was 20th and did not even get to a 2. In fact, its share in this demo in the PPM test data was lower than KZLA had normally had in this demo.

Haven't seen the July PPM's that were to be released today,

July PPMs will be pre-currency and unofficial, and of course, can not be released till July is over plus the roughly 12 days of processing time. Look for them, I believe, on the 13th of August.

[/quote] but I think that the above PPM and the Diary rating being 1.9 show that Emmis made a HUGE error...

[/quote]

Nah. The 25-54 shows the format continues to lose ground in sales demos.

 

[Rebafan]

PPM's show KKGO at 2.7 for June,

The June PPM data is test data, not even pre-currency. In the sales demos, 25-44, KKGO was 20th and did not even get to a 2. In fact, its share in this demo in the PPM test data was lower than KZLA had normally had in this demo.

Haven't seen the July PPM's that were to be released today,

July PPMs will be pre-currency and unofficial, and of course, can not be released till July is over plus the roughly 12 days of processing time. Look for them, I believe, on the 13th of August.

but I think that the above PPM and the Diary rating being 1.9 show that Emmis made a HUGE error...

Nah. The 25-54 shows the format continues to lose ground in sales demos.

No longer being an active part of the radio industry (other than still having an FCC license) I am not sure what this 2.7 PPM for June would mean if it was not a positive for KKGO. As I was reminded by a friend there was a time when KZLA had a 2.5 in multiple books and as KKGO has risen to a 1.9, the news of the PPM made me curious as to whether when the station goes full PPM if their ratings would not be in the 2.+, that perhaps the diaries were not an accurate reading of the ratings and the PPM would benefit the station in showing higher ratings.

Because I know you are active in the industry, can you break this down for me and let me know what the PPM numbers that Saul Levine has been talking about being the highest he has gotten on 105.1 mean if not positive things for the station? Not sure if this should be continued here... or possibly another as this may not be the place since PPM's are not being fully discussed via this thread.

 

[davideduardo]

No longer being an active part of the radio industry (other than still having an FCC license) I am not sure what this 2.7 PPM for June would mean if it was not a positive for KKGO.

First, this is test data, no a released to advertisers book. An KKGO is 20th in sales demos.

As I was reminded by a friend there was a time when KZLA had a 2.5 in multiple books and as KKGO has risen to a 1.9, the news of the PPM made me curious as to whether when the station goes full PPM if their ratings would not be in the 2.+, that perhaps the diaries were not an accurate reading of the ratings and the PPM would benefit the station in showing higher ratings.

Most stations have moved around a lot. In the case of KKGO, the 55+ increased in the test data by a large amount, but the 25-54 is comparable to the diary rank... 18th in diary, 20th in PPM.

Because I know you are active in the industry, can you break this down for me and let me know what the PPM numbers that Saul Levine has been talking about being the highest he has gotten on 105.1 mean if not positive things for the station? Not sure if this should be continued here... or possibly another as this may not be the place since PPM's are not being fully discussed via this thread.

As long as Saul holds down costs, he can make decent money with KKGO. I doubt that he will beat what Emmis was billing, or even come close to that as he does not have the local and national sales team Emmis has. But going country was a smart decision for him, and one that will make him even richer.

While the PPM data is not "realease" data, we can certanly discuss it as the differences may make many staitons adjust or change format... like the huge fall in KTWV in the PPM which may in the long run make that format need severe adjustment or change.

 

[Rebafan]

No longer being an active part of the radio industry (other than still having an FCC license) I am not sure what this 2.7 PPM for June would mean if it was not a positive for KKGO.

First, this is test data, no a released to advertisers book. An KKGO is 20th in sales demos.

As I was reminded by a friend there was a time when KZLA had a 2.5 in multiple books and as KKGO has risen to a 1.9, the news of the PPM made me curious as to whether when the station goes full PPM if their ratings would not be in the 2.+, that perhaps the diaries were not an accurate reading of the ratings and the PPM would benefit the station in showing higher ratings.

Most stations have moved around a lot. In the case of KKGO, the 55+ increased in the test data by a large amount, but the 25-54 is comparable to the diary rank... 18th in diary, 20th in PPM.

Because I know you are active in the industry, can you break this down for me and let me know what the PPM numbers that Saul Levine has been talking about being the highest he has gotten on 105.1 mean if not positive things for the station? Not sure if this should be continued here... or possibly another as this may not be the place since PPM's are not being fully discussed via this thread.

As long as Saul holds down costs, he can make decent money with KKGO. I doubt that he will beat what Emmis was billing, or even come close to that as he does not have the local and national sales team Emmis has. But going country was a smart decision for him, and one that will make him even richer.

While the PPM data is not "realease" data, we can certanly discuss it as the differences may make many staitons adjust or change format... like the huge fall in KTWV in the PPM which may in the long run make that format need severe adjustment or change.

Thank you for the input, So the advertisers aren't seeing these PPM ratings and won't until the market makes the total switch away from the diary to PPM?

I agree the decision to Go Country was a smart decision for Saul.
He was quoted as saying... ""We had a huge audience for classical, but they weren't responding. In contrast, in the country format advertisers "see instant action," When he tested the country format on his AM station last fall, country fans talked it up on Web sites and encouraged other fans to patronize advertisers to promote the genre."

This "instant action" the advertisers see with the country format perhaps gets him alot of advertisers even without the Emmis sales team therefore, I would wonder in this thread about format changes, IF a company such as Mt. Wilson as an independent radio station is doing well with the 55+ and OK with the 25-54 according to the current diary ratings, would it then not make it viable for another station to come into the LA market as it was awhile back where both KIK-FM and KZLA shared the LA Market, not so much as competitors but as 2 stations that offered more variety of music and radio personalities for the listeners in the areas that were picking up the signal of both stations?

 

[davideduardo]

Thank you for the input, So the advertisers aren't seeing these PPM ratings and won't until the market makes the total switch away from the diary to PPM?

Yes, you got the main point. The Spring diary survey, covering through the 26th of June, was the last diary book.

Arbitron has been running the PPM since late last year, as they build and balance the panel. To make subscribers more receptive, they released the totally test status data for June so we could see how things might be in the real PPM world, which starts with test data for first July and then August, which will not be given to agencies. September will be the first PPM book that is official, or what is being called "currency" since we do business with it.

This "instant action" the advertisers see with the country format perhaps gets him alot of advertisers even without the Emmis sales team therefore, I would wonder in this thread about format changes, IF a company such as Mt. Wilson as an independent radio station is doing well with the 55+ and OK with the 25-54 according to the current diary ratings, would it then not make it viable for another station to come into the LA market as it was awhile back where both KIK-FM and KZLA shared the LA Market, not so much as competitors but as 2 stations that offered more variety of music and radio personalities for the listeners in the areas that were picking up the signal of both stations?

You point has a lot of logic to it. The only thing is that the local and direct accounts are generally sold at a bit... or a lot... lower rates. But Saul, who is notoriously frugal, can control costs because he does not have to pay a CBS's or a Clear's corporate overhead and pricey lawyers and such...

But today, there is not enough of this business for one format for two stations to make it. Remember, Saul was down below $10 million in billing.... so any increase is great. For the group stations, unless they are close to $30 million in billing, they can't be happy. And there are no big signals in single owner hands right now, and, likely in the future.

Anyone who watched (and applauded) Saul on the C-Span broadcasts of the FCC localism hearnings knows he is one of a kind.



[/quote]

 

[john77]

KMVN is almost two years old--does Emmis have any hope for this disaster once they 'blow it up?'

What is taking them so long to "blow it up"???... I mean do they like losing money? Why don't they just take a stab at the hole sitting there between the rival CC's KIIS and KBIG? It's not rocket science here.