"HD Radio" meets the Infomercial

[Mike Walker]

Hippo you have a point. My threshold for "disrespect" is low, having seen PEOPLE, not ideas savaged here in the past. It's why I left this forum for months, and frankly was expecting to have to do it (leave) permanently at a moment's notice. Sadly, we sometimes find the expected "insult", even when it doesn't exist. I apologize for being overly sensitive, and taking offense where none was intended.

Back ON topic (at least a topic raised), I am not "satelliteless". I've been a DirecTV subscriber for many years. Cable's available too. In fact I have VERY broadband options, including 10mbps cable internet "here in the sticks", where most of my neighbors are cows! What I can't get, save for the 100kw "flamethrower" here in Wilkes County, is clean, STEREO analog fm stereo on most stations. But DIGITAL is noise-free, and most welcome, despite the fact that my "satelliteless" home also incldes a long-time subscription to XM!

 

[Savage]

Mike, interesting reference to people, not ideas being "savaged" here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not suggesting I've "savaged" people on this board, least of all you.

I sincerely am glad you enjoy HD-FM. While I may have an opinion about HD-FM in its current incarnation, I would readily agree it has a better chance of success than HD-AM. As long as "innovation" doesn't imminently threaten my ability to make a living and our investment in our station, I think it's fine.

Happy listening!

 

[Mike Walker]

Savage, I assure you no pun was intended by the term "savaged". Had it occured to me that it could have been taken that way, I would have used a different term!

 

[clouseau]

What’s the QVC business plan? Dazzle the rubes to separate them from their cash.

Yeah, that must be it. $6 1/2 BILLION in sales annually and they're just con artists...

I have often wondered what is the allure of these consultant types to clients... they basically "Tell you what you THINK you want to hear"... we had one of these "High Profile" guys come in and "Fix" a station in the group. He felt what we REALLY needed was a variant of Hot AC which would appeal to women 18-49. Something that both a Mom and her daughter would be happy listening to...

CONSULTANTS ARE MARKETERS. Selling THEMSELVES to you for a hefty fee. They don't necessarily KNOW anything you don't... "QVC - Where you go when you can't get on HSN." What an Idiot... maybe he posts his free blog from his cable and sattelite-less trailer and thinks no one SEES QVC.

Yet another example of how the “HD” Lemmings wing their way thru FantasyLand – ATTACK the professional character and credentials of one John Gorman who ONLY managed to assemble what many consider to be one of the finest AOR stations to perennially-modulate this medium [WMMS Cleveland]. Jerry Del Colliano is another example of one who irritated the corporate/”HD” radio apologists when he mated FACTUAL COMMON SENSE with his computer keyboard... This founder and former publisher of Inside Radio broke-ranks – only to be bashed by the shills of “HD Radio”. Leave it to the contemporary radio industry to redefine a person earning Emeritus status as a “has-been” when that soul fails to march with the minions!

Got it. I'm a DISREPCTFUL lemming. That's the problem...

Look I don't question for a second the resume of these guys. I listened to Gorman's 'MMS all through college and Del Colliano and I have both had have had to wait at that stupid little pull over on Ridge Pike in Philly at different times. Their PAST is well known. And respected by ME. But both of them sink when attempting to walk across a swimming pool. Thy're NOT gods. And when Gorman pontificates about relationships between Shop-at-home networks, he demonstrates this. It looks to me like he's stating that QVC is second rate compared to HSN. Numbers show otherwise. QVC's and HSN's numbers.

I called him an idiot because he made an IDIOTIC statement. Sorry guys, "I" didin't make the statement, HE DID.

But HSN vs QVC aside, what exactly IS his point here with "HD on QVC" is a bad idea?

That exposing 85 million households to HD radio is a bad idea, marketing wise? (Uh, OK)

That somehow putting HD radio on a shopping channel will "Cheapen" it? (Tell that to Dell Computers, numerous DTV manufacturers and the NFL.)

Something else? Maybe you can figure it out. I'm just a lemming.

And before we go running off half cocked, "I" brought up the trailer thing. And that's because since HSN is the only one of the two shopping services with LPTV, AFAIK, I would suspect HSN would be perceived to be "BIG DADDY" of the TV shopping world by those without cable or satellite.

Mr. Inspector, this IS NOT about some mother-daughter Carpenters-meets-Kelly Clarkson format on AC radio

WOW... Quite a little jump there by you to get from what I said
"a variant of Hot AC which would appeal to women 18-49. Something that both a Mom and her daughter would be happy listening to."
to
"some mother-daughter Carpenters-meets-Kelly Clarkson format".

– it’s about defective/destructive broadcast technology that is miserably-failing any reasonable expectation within the traditional retail channels – a [so-called] marketing effort given to the desperation of enlisting an entity universally-indentified by its “basal-level huckster” status.

Ok, I see. You don't think QVC is worthy of HD radio sales. Let me ask you. Should we pull the Phillips analog radios off there? How about the Samsung TVs? The Dell Computers? The JVC DVRs? Maybe the Bose wave radios? Maybe the Craftsman tools? Maybe the Sirius? Or The XM? It may be "Beneath" YOU, but I can guarantee it's not "BENEATH" the marketplace.

So FACT: Regardless of revenue, the QVC business model and target customer is well-known and reasonably-stereotyped.
Pity an emerging and allegedly-“hip” technology that is reduced to sharing space with costume jewelry, “miracle” health and beauty aids, and quickly-conjured “exclusive” and so-called “designer” apparel lines.

Good point. You'd never find something like an I-Pod nano there. Oh wait... NEVER MIND. It already is.

I make my living in an industry whose mission is to bring buyer and seller together,

Got it. And HSN and QVC are taking your customers away right now. If the two of them closed tomorrow, don't you think you'd make more "bringing buyers and sellers together" Money??

and that process always involves the careful determination of the APPROPRIATE customer-level sales representative.

Sorry, not "Always". And moving more and more to "Rarely" every day. over $10 billion a year in sales says you're off the mark. I "WISH" you were right here. But I'm afraid you're not.

When an alleged “cutting-edge” audio-electronics item with a minimum $100 cost of admission [for its dual 3-inch speakers and mediocre performance—somehow-justified by its “HD” buzz-word] FAILS cautious scrutiny by BOTH enthusiast-oriented specialty AND mass-market retailers; and ends up as a “segment” on a perpetual cable-TV infomercial – something is VERY telling about the desirability of said product in the first place!

Here's the meat of the matter. You don't like it and therefore it's crap because it's on QVC.

Of course a lot of stuff you DO like is on QVC so therefore the assertion that "IF it's on QVC, It's crap" is just WRONG.

Hopefully this is respectful enough for ya.

Clouseau

 

[Play Freebird]

I am not an engineer, but am curious if the AM digital signal can be programmed to be more resistant to interference? If so, there may be hope for nighttime AM hydrid IBOC.

This is the fundamental problem. There's a four-way tradeoff between bandwidth, power, interference and noise immunity.

Raise the digital sideband power and you'll gain some noise immunity, but the adjacent channel interference to other broadcasters would increase above the existing level, which is already too high.

If you maintain the same power, but instead increase the occupied bandwidth of the digital sidebands, then a more-robust modulation scheme might be possible, but the energy will spill far beyond the first-adjacent channel.

You could also reduce the bit rate transmitted in the sidebands, but then the codec would sound even worse than it does, if it even works at all. The existing bitrate is quite close to the lowest practical limit.

To be honest, iBiquity's engineers worked very hard to get the system where it is today. However, AM IBOC is still a bad idea.

The much-ballyhoo-ed "4th generation chips" will not solve this problem because it's a function of the "laws of physics". Otherwise, we would be able to get multi-megabit data transmission through dial-up modems on noisy POTS lines.

Google "Shannon's Law" for more background, or see:

http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci856628,00.html

 

[Mike Walker]

While the laws of physics can't be broken, they sure as hell can be bent...and are often! Newer generation HDTVs are much less prone to dropouts from multipath and other environmental conditions. With a good roof antenna and rotor, there are many tv stations where I simply can't get a decent analog picture due to multipath, but the digital is perfect. The effective digital coverage is GREATER than analog in many cases.

This is also true (in a stationary location) with HD Radio on FM. There are MANY stations that simply won't yield a quiet analog fm stereo signal, but HD comes in solid as a rock. Now in a moving car, I have no idea...I have no HD radio in my car, and frankly am in not rushing out to get one. Being legally blind, I spend my days at home, so stationary reception is much more important TO ME.

 

[VeteranPD]

Why don't you guys just knock in the hell off with the smart comments. You complain about the technology, you complain about the marketing, you complain about interference which hasn't been that bad. This is a chance to pitch to a large audience. Perhaps the first phase in a multi phase program to increase public awareness. IBOC may not be perfect, but to my ear it is better than AM. Yes, it's fragile but as receivers improve so will performance. For AM radio, it's a shot...granted maybe a long shot, but a shot am needs to take. Most casual listeners never notice the noise on the analog signal. They are used to noise on analog am and since we have few slide rule dials made today, there is little thumb wheeling to reveal the noise on the side bands. Again, in a well constructed tuner, that noise falls off at second adjacent.
On some of my analog radios, the noise wouldn't raise an eyebrow on most casual listeners if you tune carefully to center slot.

 

[clouseau]

Why don't you guys just knock in the hell off with the smart comments. You complain about the technology, you complain about the marketing, you complain about interference which hasn't been that bad. This is a chance to pitch to a large audience. Perhaps the first phase in a multi phase program to increase public awareness.

Stop right there. You are an HD radio lemming. Some of us may like improved sound, but we can NOT have you blowing around your Pro-Iniquity, destructive, defective, buzzsaw, interfering, Clarkson-Carpenters formated, Titanic 2000 of broadcasting, IBAC, Digital crap here.

IBOC may not be perfect, but to my ear it is better than AM.

I'm sorry but most of the posters in this board have already established HD has no up side. Clearly YOU ARE WRONG.

Yes, it's fragile but as receivers improve so will performance. For AM radio, it's a shot...granted maybe a long shot, but a shot am needs to take. Most casual listeners never notice the noise on the analog signal. They are used to noise on analog am and since we have few slide rule dials made today, there is little thumb wheeling to reveal the noise on the side bands. Again, in a well constructed tuner, that noise falls off at second adjacent.

Bullhockey. Evertyone here has heard that AM hd interference is 7 CHANNELS WIDE. Disagree and risk banishment. Do you feel lucky?? I know you are just paid off or "Gotten To." Admit it, you and Tom Ray BOTH know the secret handshake!!!

On some of my analog radios, the noise wouldn't raise an eyebrow on most casual listeners if you tune carefully to center slot.

More HD cheerleader BS. Your Corporate line spouting, Reality denying, myopic, lemming crud doesn't fly here. You obviously are on the iNiquity payroll.

Welcome to "Jonesville" VeteranPD. They all think we are drinking the Kool-Aid.

Nonetheless, Glad to see you are reaping all of those benefits from the Ibiquity payoff.



Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

Stop right there. You are an HD radio lemming...

OH HAPPY DAY! ...Wasn’t that an Edwin Hawkins spiritual-turned-Top 40 in the heyday of great ANALOG AM radio – when the biggest bogs resided on [only] 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and “One-Four-Nine-O-Radio”?

Now those frightful Lemmings roost in one great-BIG BOG that spans nearly the entire band... DARN-IT! ...I can’t tell the difference between Karen Carpenter and Kelly Clarkson anymore because of all that “Band-Buzz”... Maybe an “idiot” consultant living in a trailer – watching HSN while he updates his “free blog” can help me tell the difference. Maybe if I pay him a lot of money to tell me what I already know, he’ll violate his oath to the Alpha Beta-Ray corporate engineering Fraternity and show me the secret handshake... OH NO – while he was feeling-up my palm, that mother-daughter format-loving shill just stole my “HD” Alliance promotional wristwatch – DRAT! ...I might lose track of time and miss the big “HD” Receptor blowout on QVC!

OH HAPPY DAY! ...I can finally claim as my own, a buzz-word the “HD followers” are so fond of—“LEMMING”. Like “defective”, “destructive”, “buzz-saw”, “shill”, and [still my favorite] “iNiquity” that preceded it: If it flies, stings, and buzzes like a bee – it likely IS an I.B.O.C. ;D

Speaking of HAPPY DAYS... I’m real sorry one of “the cheerleaders” ISN'T having one :'(

 

[Chuck]

While the laws of physics can't be broken, they sure as hell can be bent...and are often! Newer generation HDTVs are much less prone to dropouts from multipath and other environmental conditions. With a good roof antenna and rotor, there are many tv stations where I simply can't get a decent analog picture due to multipath, but the digital is perfect. The effective digital coverage is GREATER than analog in many cases.

Mike, I agree that HDTV is a big improvement over analog. As a fellow rural viewer, my HDTV feeds are amazing compared with the analog feeds from the same stations. But making a comparison between HDTV and HD radio really isn't valid. First, the power levels for HDTV are much greater than the paltry 1/100 signal level of HD radio. Second, they are not trying to cram ten pounds of stuff in a one pound sack. Each TV broadcaster got a new channel for their digital feed.

Radio wasn't so lucky. It got screwed, largely by its own trade organizations. Doing a second all digital radio channel would be the right way to do this. It is fair, equitable, and technically viable. Unfortunately, that might cause parity between large and small stations, and we couldn’t have that. So the HD compromise is what we got.

I've noticed that the Fry's stores in Dallas are blowing out HD radios. The BA was $129 last weekend. The display had been moved to an area of insignificance in the store. If they are typical of retailers, the message is clear. HD is a non-event. Will it come back? Who knows? For now I think you can write it off for AM and probably for FM for the foreseeable future.

I hope the next version of digital radio is done right. We deserve better.

 

[clouseau]

Stop right there. You are an HD radio lemming...

OH HAPPY DAY! ...Wasn’t that an Edwin Hawkins spiritual-turned-Top 40 in the heyday of great ANALOG AM radio – when the biggest bogs resided on [only] 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and “One-Four-Nine-O-Radio”?

Now those frightful Lemmings roost in one great-BIG BOG that spans nearly the entire band... DARN-IT! ...I can’t tell the difference between Karen Carpenter and Kelly Clarkson anymore because of all that “Band-Buzz”... Maybe an “idiot” consultant living in a trailer – watching HSN while he updates his “free blog” can help me tell the difference. Maybe if I pay him a lot of money to tell me what I already know, he’ll violate his oath to the Alpha Beta-Ray corporate engineering Fraternity and show me the secret handshake... OH NO – while he was feeling-up my palm, that mother-daughter format-loving shill just stole my “HD” Alliance promotional wristwatch – DRAT! ...I might lose track of time and miss the big “HD” Receptor blowout on QVC!

OH HAPPY DAY! ...I can finally claim as my own, a buzz-word the “HD followers” are so fond of—“LEMMING”. Like “defective”, “destructive”, “buzz-saw”, “shill”, and [still my favorite] “iNiquity” that preceded it: If it flies, stings, and buzzes like a bee – it likely IS an I.B.O.C. ;D

Speaking of HAPPY DAYS... I’m real sorry one of “the cheerleaders” ISN'T having one :'(

As the Gieco Caveman so eloquently put it....

WHAT?

Clouseau

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WHEN will the moderators get this thread and move it to "take it outside"? Sheesh, except for Shredderman, I probably hate HD interference more than anybody. But I at least try to be respectful!

 

[PhilGalasso]

This is also true (in a stationary location) with HD Radio on FM. There are MANY stations that simply won't yield a quiet analog fm stereo signal, but HD comes in solid as a rock.

The one advantage that IBOC ("HD Radio") has over analog in the FM band is immunity from multipath. The digital carriers use an OFDM scheme, which resists multipath. Hence the lack of noise and "picket fencing" in areas where the signal is strong enough to permit digital reception. The downside of FM IBOC is the rather poor coverage of the digital signal, as the digital component is limited to 1% of the analog power under the current standard for hybrid IBOC FM radio. (In the context of radio, "HD" actually stands for "Hybrid Digital", NOT "high definition".)

The Achilles Heel of AM IBOC is its w-i-d-e bandwidth and the resultant adjacent channel interference. There are plenty of reception reports showing how skywave interference from IBOC stations degrades analog reception of analog stations on the first adjacent channels. As for digital reception on AM, let's see some nighttime reception reports of IBOC signals on IBOC AM radios. These reports should be of local and distant stations, showing how well or poorly the DIGITAL component holds up under skywave interference from other stations on the same and adjacent channels. Please mention what kind of radio you are using and whether you are listening at home or in your car.

 

[hipporadio]

...Radio wasn't so lucky. It got screwed, largely by its own trade organizations. Doing a second all digital radio channel would be the right way to do this. It is fair, equitable, and technically viable. Unfortunately, that might cause parity between large and small stations, and we couldn’t have that...

CONGRATULATIONS CHUCK! You’ve just unearthed the figurative “Tomb of King Tut” – and Gerry Rivera wasn’t even there with the cameras rolling! The humorous irony is: What is surly-destined for a textbook example of a mountain-sized marketing failure, was breed, born, and boob-feed by an industry that alleges its expertise in that vocation :

I've noticed that the Fry's stores in Dallas are blowing out HD radios. The BA was $129 last weekend...

Remember, I enthusiastically-own [and have repeatedly-recommended] the MONO ANALOG PREDECESSOR to the mediocre and discontinued version that is “HD”-capable [pardon the blatant oxymoron]; and have given it a more-inquisitive “test drive” than would the typical consumer... It doesn’t justify a price HALF-THAT $129 figure, and I have this warm suspicion that we’ll be watching our ‘ole friend—the “HD” Receptor tomorrow evening on the infomercial outlet store!

HD is a non-event. I hope the next version of digital radio is done right. We deserve better.

Again, fair insight followed by hopeful optimism, Chuck! [Shocking as it might appear] I hope for “digital done right” also... My replacement CD collection testifies to the fact that I’m NOT one who stubbornly-remains obsessed with analog audio from vinyl LPs; although I’ll admit to occasionally-enjoying a little “snap, crackle, ‘n pop” with my classic Top-40 rock. Maybe that’s why I still know how to tune an AM radio!

FM took DECADES to reach parity with AM...
HDTV ain't setting the world on fire, after a DECADE! These things take time.

Yes they do Mike, and remember – HDTV is still considered a pricy luxury by most of the consumer kingdom. With the exception of the movie buff wishing to recreate the local Lowes-Ames in his living room or a sports enthusiast hell-bent on counting leg-hairs on his hero quarterback – TVs are generally replaced only when they become dysfunctional or another room in the house earns the analog small-screen cast-off. I do not [yet] own an HDTV... WHY? ...Because my 42-inch Sony rear-projection standard-def model in the living room works perfectly presenting a good picture; and my two-year-old 27-inch deeply-discounted Trinitron meets my needs while “bed-headed”.

Using the HDTV analogy to explain-away the fumbling “HD Radio” format is less than fitting. While I’ll concede your insight regarding the metamorphosis of FM Stereo; I’ll beg your age and experience to also recall that its take-off awaited and enjoyed two very-significant relationships: First—a historically-massive effort by the consumer electronics industry to seize-upon the affection that Boomers had for “their music” – and “kick it up a notch” from the old Crosley Collegiate turntable to a “cool” Sony stereo component system. FM radio just happened to profit from a seat on that rocket-ship. Secondly, and of HUGE relevance at that time, was the overwhelming youth appeal level enjoyed by radio [especially, the new and rebellious FM stations] and the bond its audience HAD with the medium.

This is NOT the case today... That former bond has faded into a murky bog where the dominate serpents sell portable mp3 players and disposable “hit music”. Furthermore, corporate radio has made EVERY EFFORT to AVOID good-fortune and future gratification with that group – instead, electing the priority of its self-gratification called “the bottom line”. IIRC, The Good Inspector aptly-labeled it: “the sucky radio thing”.

The “defective” product here isn’t only the “HD” hardware and system... It’s the very-reason consumers would consider its purchase in the first place—RADIO PROGRAMMING that actually merits their parting with over a hundred bucks. The mad scientists can conjure a dozen generations of “chips” and the shills can cook-up the fifth, sixth, and seventh “Big Roll-out”; but if that software known as “programming and presentation” remains in its current corporate “less is more” stasis – “HD Radio” is little-more than unappetizing “after-birth”.

Got it. I'm a DISREPCTFUL lemming. That's the problem... That somehow putting HD radio on a shopping channel will “Cheapen” it... Tell that to Dell Computers... You'd never find something like an I-Pod nano there. Oh wait... NEVER MIND. It already is.

Please Mr. Inspector... Give me just an ounce of credit for my two preoccupations – unless the heats on, and you can’t handle it! I fully-anticipated your eminent grip on Dell and the trendy iPod before I clicked on “Post” – and you have rewarded me accordingly! The Dell of today reflects a marketing priority that is very-different from that which established it with the critical technophile niche a decade ago. At that time, NO sane marketer could have imagined that product’s presentation on the likes of QVC. Dell has simply grown well-past its original foundation... Yes, they have entered the “mass market” AFTER conquering their specialty target – and MUCH to the dismay of most of their original loyalists! Further note that Dell products offered via QVC are ALWAYS at their “LOWER-END”, and generally represent technology which is on the DESCENDING side of the bell-curve.

Much the same can be said of the notoriously-elite Apple. Again, are you prepared for the outrage of suggesting they would have given even a condescending eye-bat to the proposition of launching the iPod on QVC? Those at Apple managed to surprise even themselves when they witnessed their chic little contribution to pop culture climb to over a SEVENTY PERCENT market share!!! At that point, one has little choice but to go for all the gusto they could get. I’m sure the trendy crowd that first-crowned the iPod, takes little [or no] notice of Apple’s low-end nano-flirtations on QVC – so the Jobs gang has little to lose.

Here's the meat of the matter. You don't like it and therefore it's crap because it's on QVC.

And here’s the bread ‘n butter, Mr. Inspector... May I cordially suggest that you seek-out a relaxing casual lunch with nearly-any Marketing Professor at the university level who could wisely assist you in acquiring some realistic perspective on the psychographics of the marketplace? It’s obvious that I lack the stature to help you! I understand... You Radio-types LOVE to talk “demos”; but Marketers often-engage in a more-sophisticated mechanism [I recall that Arbitron once-tried it with a report called Prism]. IIRC, you’re in Talk Radio; so I’m sure you can easily find a collegiate in that BIGGER State of Texas... One easily found me in private Email... I’ll copy a few of his thoughts from a message yesterday evening...

I just have to drop you a note and tell you how much I am enjoying your David against Corporate Radio Goliath performance at Radio-Info. RIGHT-ON! Am I dating myself with that 70s cliché? Your former Sales Manager turned me on to your recent return to The Great HD Radio Debate. Believe me, “Great” is a dramatic overstatement for matters related to high-def radio! Nonetheless, the rationale of its supporters is paltry in your presence there. As a Doctored Professor of Marketing at Washington University, it is patently-obvious that you are but a few within your former occupation that can lay claim to any significant understanding and genuine agility within the Marketing discipline.

Radio’s real antagonist is its poor programming and over-commercialization. How can any who claims advertising expertise expect the common busied consumer to lurk thru eight minutes of bar ads, car dealer pontifications, and discount furniture store credit terms on KSHE only to find “Sweet Home Alabama” waiting for the ten-thousandth time on the other side. I counted THIRTEEN ads on 94.7 just before 10AM last Friday morning [unlucky for KSHE]! Come now, and these people call themselves “expert promoters”? Not within my brethren, but possibly within those that also frequent the likes of QVC and HSN. And since when are ratings relevant to an infomercial station with a totally unrelated revenue stream? Hey, they’re virtual twins, so I can’t fathom WHY your group is wasting time arguing about silly differences between them. The shop talk of Psychographics can be sensitive and appear rude to the layperson, but your description of what accounts for much of the clientele who view and buy from those stations is a kinder form of frank, not to mention, gut-busting hilarious. You should be on high-def radio!

As for HD; I would like to enjoy its programs, but I have several reasons to be inhibited about it. The few I know who have purchased radios have become dissatisfied and returned them because of the undependable high-def broadcast signal. There are over a dozen in St Louis and many have a high wattage, but when they present an HD broadcast the reception falters and their second stations are often not-receivable. An associate living in near-westend Clayton can see the lamp on their very-tall tower in south-county, but his radio was on-and-off in high-def as he walked around the room. There are easily a hundred retail outlets in the area where sales of HD radios would be appropriate, but I rarely see them displayed and never find an employee who can assist in their purchase. The final deterrent is the programming itself. I enjoy public radio, and there are many non-profit stations offering unique programs beyond the better-known NPR broadcasts; but these are smaller stations and do not offer high-def programs. I just can’t justify replacing my perfectly-functioning radios with a new HD model to hear my fine-sounding forty-year-old favorites from The Doors, Pink Floyd, and Captain Beefheart. I doubt seriously that what passes as modern music today could possibly benefit from high-def radio either, and those more youthful seem to agree!

How is it possible that a group of 100-million-dollar radio station owners could allow such an egg to be laid? This appears to be a Marketing blunder of epic proportions in the making! I fully expect to be reading about it in course text within the next decade.

* Name withheld to protect the writer from being labeled “angry and bitter”.

 

[clouseau]

...Radio wasn't so lucky. It got screwed, largely by its own trade organizations. Doing a second all digital radio channel would be the right way to do this. It is fair, equitable, and technically viable. Unfortunately, that might cause parity between large and small stations, and we couldn’t have that...

CONGRATULATIONS CHUCK! You’ve just unearthed the figurative “Tomb of King Tut” – and Gerry Rivera wasn’t even there with the cameras rolling! The humorous irony is: What is surly-destined for a textbook example of a mountain-sized marketing failure, was breed, born, and boob-feed by an industry that alleges its expertise in that vocation :

I've noticed that the Fry's stores in Dallas are blowing out HD radios. The BA was $129 last weekend...

Remember, I enthusiastically-own [and have repeatedly-recommended] the MONO ANALOG PREDECESSOR to the mediocre and discontinued version that is “HD”-capable [pardon the blatant oxymoron]; and have given it a more-inquisitive “test drive” than would the typical consumer... It doesn’t justify a price HALF-THAT $129 figure, and I have this warm suspicion that we’ll be watching our ‘ole friend—the “HD” Receptor tomorrow evening on the infomercial outlet store!

HD is a non-event. I hope the next version of digital radio is done right. We deserve better.

Again, fair insight followed by hopeful optimism, Chuck! [Shocking as it might appear] I hope for “digital done right” also... My replacement CD collection testifies to the fact that I’m NOT one who stubbornly-remains obsessed with analog audio from vinyl LPs; although I’ll admit to occasionally-enjoying a little “snap, crackle, ‘n pop” with my classic Top-40 rock. Maybe that’s why I still know how to tune an AM radio!

FM took DECADES to reach parity with AM...
HDTV ain't setting the world on fire, after a DECADE! These things take time.

Yes they do Mike, and remember – HDTV is still considered a pricy luxury by most of the consumer kingdom. With the exception of the movie buff wishing to recreate the local Lowes-Ames in his living room or a sports enthusiast hell-bent on counting leg-hairs on his hero quarterback – TVs are generally replaced only when they become dysfunctional or another room in the house earns the analog small-screen cast-off. I do not [yet] own an HDTV... WHY? ...Because my 42-inch Sony rear-projection standard-def model in the living room works perfectly presenting a good picture; and my two-year-old 27-inch deeply-discounted Trinitron meets my needs while “bed-headed”.

Using the HDTV analogy to explain-away the fumbling “HD Radio” format is less than fitting. While I’ll concede your insight regarding the metamorphosis of FM Stereo; I’ll beg your age and experience to also recall that its take-off awaited and enjoyed two very-significant relationships: First—a historically-massive effort by the consumer electronics industry to seize-upon the affection that Boomers had for “their music” – and “kick it up a notch” from the old Crosley Collegiate turntable to a “cool” Sony stereo component system. FM radio just happened to profit from a seat on that rocket-ship. Secondly, and of HUGE relevance at that time, was the overwhelming youth appeal level enjoyed by radio [especially, the new and rebellious FM stations] and the bond its audience HAD with the medium.

This is NOT the case today... That former bond has faded into a murky bog where the dominate serpents sell portable mp3 players and disposable “hit music”. Furthermore, corporate radio has made EVERY EFFORT to AVOID good-fortune and future gratification with that group – instead, electing the priority of its self-gratification called “the bottom line”. IIRC, The Good Inspector aptly-labeled it: “the sucky radio thing”.

The “defective” product here isn’t only the “HD” hardware and system... It’s the very-reason consumers would consider its purchase in the first place—RADIO PROGRAMMING that actually merits their parting with over a hundred bucks. The mad scientists can conjure a dozen generations of “chips” and the shills can cook-up the fifth, sixth, and seventh “Big Roll-out”; but if that software known as “programming and presentation” remains in its current corporate “less is more” stasis – “HD Radio” is little-more than unappetizing “after-birth”.

Got it. I'm a DISREPCTFUL lemming. That's the problem... That somehow putting HD radio on a shopping channel will “Cheapen” it... Tell that to Dell Computers... You'd never find something like an I-Pod nano there. Oh wait... NEVER MIND. It already is.

Please Mr. Inspector... Give me just an ounce of credit for my two preoccupations – unless the heats on, and you can’t handle it! I fully-anticipated your eminent grip on Dell and the trendy iPod before I clicked on “Post” – and you have rewarded me accordingly! The Dell of today reflects a marketing priority that is very-different from that which established it with the critical technophile niche a decade ago. At that time, NO sane marketer could have imagined that product’s presentation on the likes of QVC. Dell has simply grown well-past its original foundation... Yes, they have entered the “mass market” AFTER conquering their specialty target – and MUCH to the dismay of most of their original loyalists! Further note that Dell products offered via QVC are ALWAYS at their “LOWER-END”, and generally represent technology which is on the DESCENDING side of the bell-curve.

Much the same can be said of the notoriously-elite Apple. Again, are you prepared for the outrage of suggesting they would have given even a condescending eye-bat to the proposition of launching the iPod on QVC? Those at Apple managed to surprise even themselves when they witnessed their chic little contribution to pop culture climb to over a SEVENTY PERCENT market share!!! At that point, one has little choice but to go for all the gusto they could get. I’m sure the trendy crowd that first-crowned the iPod, takes little [or no] notice of Apple’s low-end nano-flirtations on QVC – so the Jobs gang has little to lose.

Here's the meat of the matter. You don't like it and therefore it's crap because it's on QVC.

And here’s the bread ‘n butter, Mr. Inspector... May I cordially suggest that you seek-out a relaxing casual lunch with nearly-any Marketing Professor at the university level who could wisely assist you in acquiring some realistic perspective on the psychographics of the marketplace? It’s obvious that I lack the stature to help you! I understand... You Radio-types LOVE to talk “demos”; but Marketers often-engage in a more-sophisticated mechanism [I recall that Arbitron once-tried it with a report called Prism]. IIRC, you’re in Talk Radio; so I’m sure you can easily find a collegiate in that BIGGER State of Texas... One easily found me in private Email... I’ll copy a few of his thoughts from a message yesterday evening...

I just have to drop you a note and tell you how much I am enjoying your David against Corporate Radio Goliath performance at Radio-Info. RIGHT-ON! Am I dating myself with that 70s cliché? Your former Sales Manager turned me on to your recent return to The Great HD Radio Debate. Believe me, “Great” is a dramatic overstatement for matters related to high-def radio! Nonetheless, the rationale of its supporters is paltry in your presence there. As a Doctored Professor of Marketing at Washington University, it is patently-obvious that you are but a few within your former occupation that can lay claim to any significant understanding and genuine agility within the Marketing discipline.

Radio’s real antagonist is its poor programming and over-commercialization. How can any who claims advertising expertise expect the common busied consumer to lurk thru eight minutes of bar ads, car dealer pontifications, and discount furniture store credit terms on KSHE only to find “Sweet Home Alabama” waiting for the ten-thousandth time on the other side. I counted THIRTEEN ads on 94.7 just before 10AM last Friday morning [unlucky for KSHE]! Come now, and these people call themselves “expert promoters”? Not within my brethren, but possibly within those that also frequent the likes of QVC and HSN. And since when are ratings relevant to an infomercial station with a totally unrelated revenue stream? Hey, they’re virtual twins, so I can’t fathom WHY your group is wasting time arguing about silly differences between them. The shop talk of Psychographics can be sensitive and appear rude to the layperson, but your description of what accounts for much of the clientele who view and buy from those stations is a kinder form of frank, not to mention, gut-busting hilarious. You should be on high-def radio!

As for HD; I would like to enjoy its programs, but I have several reasons to be inhibited about it. The few I know who have purchased radios have become dissatisfied and returned them because of the undependable high-def broadcast signal. There are over a dozen in St Louis and many have a high wattage, but when they present an HD broadcast the reception falters and their second stations are often not-receivable. An associate living in near-westend Clayton can see the lamp on their very-tall tower in south-county, but his radio was on-and-off in high-def as he walked around the room. There are easily a hundred retail outlets in the area where sales of HD radios would be appropriate, but I rarely see them displayed and never find an employee who can assist in their purchase. The final deterrent is the programming itself. I enjoy public radio, and there are many non-profit stations offering unique programs beyond the better-known NPR broadcasts; but these are smaller stations and do not offer high-def programs. I just can’t justify replacing my perfectly-functioning radios with a new HD model to hear my fine-sounding forty-year-old favorites from The Doors, Pink Floyd, and Captain Beefheart. I doubt seriously that what passes as modern music today could possibly benefit from high-def radio either, and those more youthful seem to agree!

How is it possible that a group of 100-million-dollar radio station owners could allow such an egg to be laid? This appears to be a Marketing blunder of epic proportions in the making! I fully expect to be reading about it in course text within the next decade.

* Name withheld to protect the writer from being labeled “angry and bitter”.

Lets shorten this and just let it go shall we?

You have stated nothing "Hip" is on QVC. I responded with Dell and IPOD nano.

You responded that Dell is no longer hip as it was and that Ipod Nano is not valid as it is "Apple’s low-end nano-flirtations on QVC."

Now you assert I need to "seek-out a relaxing casual lunch with nearly-any Marketing Professor at the university level who could wisely assist you in acquiring some realistic perspective on the psychographics of the marketplace?"

No disrespect intended here, but I spend several hours EVERY DAY actually talking to people who sell stuff for a living. I get real time feedback DAY BY DAY about what works and what doesn't. I will freely admit to not being a "Pointy headed Acadenian" when it comes to marketing "expertise". I ain't a college professor. I'm a radio guy. You give me cash. I'll get your stuff sold. If I can't help you, I'll tell you so. I'm NOT trying to find the latest craze in trendy stuff. I'm moving units off the lot. To me... A Dodge Nitro is a trendy product.

SIDEBAR. I was just interupted by the MRS. who announced to me that "HD radio on QVC on Wednesday at 11PM." I just looked at here blankly and said "Really"... With God as my witness this just happened.

Fact is, I'm NOT a marketing professor. Nor do I have tenure or am I a "pointy headed marketing genius".

I'm just a dude that can get payroll to be late if I miss one too many collection goals. And my people ALWAYS get paid on time.

When it comes to hip. I JUST DON'T CARE. Maybe I'm an "Over the hill" doof. But I go to work every day and sell our station. And we're trending up.

I get "you think" that I don't get it.

Fair enough... We disagree...

Say, did I mention in my drive through Corpus Christi last weekend that KEDT has added HD?

I guess not.

I'm done with this thread...

Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

...I probably hate HD interference more than anybody. But I at least try to be respectful!

rbruce... If I have contributed to an offense, I assure you the presentation in my prior post [reply #28] was purposely-cynical [a creative joke] at the 100% level, and was prompted-by and aimed at behavior in reply #27. Many of the “catch-phrases” [which you might have found offensive] were a “turn-around” on that post's author who has grown increasingly-fond of their sarcastic use. A few were my-own self-deprecation of phrases I often “borrow” from others here; and which he as grown fond mimicking also. My ONLY invention, “Lemming” [which means “follower” and isn’t even considered “slang”], I took full responsibility for. It has become the latest target of his sarcastic affections also!

This “discussion” unfortunately-descended into banality; and violated the respectful nature you seek AFTER this poster called a long-established and exceptional Cleveland AOR programmer “an idiot” for merely opposing the “logic” of selling “HD” radios on the QVC shopping channel.

I assure you that my use of these terms and the manner in which I presented them was merely to mock their paltry and trite nature in the first place. Hopefully his response in reply #30 is the climax of his temper-tantrum, and I wish him a better day tomorrow ...Now back to HD on QVC... Tomorrow night at 11... Got your VISA cards ready

 

[Chuck]

...Now back to HD on QVC... Tomorrow night at 11... Got your VISA cards ready

I'd never argue that QVC isn't a successful business. The fact of the matter is it is very successful, especially in rural and semi-rural areas (as Mike pointed out). These places simply have no retail outlets for the merchandise that is offered on TV. QVC will deliver it directly to your door, and they are a reliable and trusted source. It is very convenient and there is nothing wrong with that.

Successful though they may be, I tend to think of QVC as a dumping ground for technology that is nearly out of date. Maybe I'm more sophisticated than their target customer. I don't rent my furniture or appliances either, but some people do. To me, those folks look like their customer base.

So let's say that QVC is a very successful merchandiser. That's nice, but most of the rural areas they serve don't have HD radio outlets to listen to. For the most part, those stations are concentrated in the largest cities. Where I live (rural East Texas) I can get one HD station (intermittently) with a large outdoor antenna. Do you think my neighbors want to buy a$150-$600 radio that offers nothing new? Maybe, but I doubt it. There is nothing to listen to. Why would you buy a radio that promises the “stations between the stations” but picks up nothing new, because it simply isn’t there? They may b able to market them, but I’ll bet a lot are returned because they fail to deliver the promise of new stations.

By the way, "rural" does not necessarily equal "stupid." People tend to make purchases either because the need something, or because it offers additional benefits. "Quality" is definitely one of those possible benefits. Just because the area is rural doesn't mean that people won't buy good products. Bose has sold a ton of $500 kitchen radios around here, so anything is possible. On the other hand, selling an expensive radio that offers little or no benefit to rural listeners is probably like selling refrigerators to Eskimos. I doubt they are interested.

 

[midatlanticengineer]

But the interference inherent in HD-AM is as indefensible as it is self-defeating for even the biggest AM "heritage" stations. You can reduce the crap on adjacent channels in the passband of other stations to -28 dBc, but interference is interference. It's still there, and it's much more obnoxious than the earnestly attempted reassurances of IBOC promoters care to admit. The noise is harmonic-rich "pink" noise which is steady-state and far more disruptive than typical co- or adjacent-channel audio chatter and murmur. Delivered via skywave, it's massively destructive. WYSL has a very high NIF of 13.687, through which adjacent channel IBOC noise barrels like an out-of-control semi rig. Last night adjacent-channel noise was invading a measured WYSL 18 mv/m signal, 0.9 miles from the site. Now we don't even cover our community of license, 7 miles away. So much for the assurances that IBOC won't hurt anyone.

If it is indeed true that AM's tree needs pruning, the argument would be a lot more persuasive if it wasn't being advanced by the self-interested, short-sighted types who would reap an immediate benefit. In any case the IBOC promoters shouldn't be the ones wielding the pruning saw.

What is your next step in trying to get this pink noise interference issue resolved? I am approximately 90+ or so miles east of you and although I would never hear your station at night here, 1040 khz is solid with 20db over S-9 of pink noise. No longer can I hear WHO for any great length of time. I am finding this to be the case across the board on other channels...once listenable signals, now wrapped up in noise.
I can not imagion what this interference must be doing for business on stations like yours and others across the country.

 

[Chuck]

I can not imagion what this interference must be doing for business on stations like yours and others across the country.

As the daylight hours get shorter the forecast is not good. When it is dark during normal commute time, and even local stations are obliterated by noise, I think you will find that HD will hit station owners where it hurts the most - in the pocket book.

 

[Mike Walker]

Did I say something nice about QVC? SHAME ON ME! Did anyone else here see the 30 minute "Infomercial" on QVC last night? I've followed the progress for digital radio technology for almost two decades, and it confused me! I'm certain that a viewer who knew nothing about HD Radio still doesn't...except that it sure seems to cost a lot. To top it off, rather than tapping off the audio output so you could actually hear what it sounds like (or a hint anyway), they picked up the audio through the speakers...of a lousy table radio. Naturally it sounded often. But I saved the best part for last. Whenever they were talking about the "amazing sound", it was a freakin' low bitrate weather forecast that was playing on an HD3 stream. ARRRRRGH!

Seriously guys, if radio can't do a better job of selling OURSELVES than this, WE DESERVE TO FAIL, become homeless, and scavenge for meals from dumpsters!