• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Here is the 2017 DMA rankings by Nielsen

It is surprising that Mankato didn't sprout some translators not unlike the former situation in Ottumwa where KTVO's ABC was supplemented by CBS and NBC from Des Moines. At least the ownership structure with the St James translators has held up.

I think the reason why is 2 fold
-Minneapolis stations in the analog days could reach Mankato with an outdoor antenna. Also KAAL 6 ABC back in the day could too (their tower was way closer to Mankato than it is now)
-The mentioned translator farm nearby.

The translator farm is operated by 4 co-ops and actually has 3 sites. They have done major upgrades...the most recent was a fibre connection between the sites (instead of OTA) and from Minneapolis to the sites (instead a microwave feed from about 1/2 way between the cities and the translator farm). They ask for $84 a year in donations
www.ctv.coop
 
I read, re-read and read again from the Nielsen website. It still remains confusing to me.
A "TV HOME" does not correlate to an actual home that have televisions in use? If true,
then fewer that 50% of homes have televisions in regular use? That 50% would seem
very low to me. I guess the process works but seems needlessly complex.
 
A "TV HOME" does not correlate to an actual home that have televisions in use? If true,
then fewer that 50% of homes have televisions in regular use?

How many people live in a typical home? One person? If more than one person lives in a home, that accounts for the 50% figure.

"Needlessly complex?" Ha! That's statistics for you. Ever have an exciting conversation with a mathematician or a statistician?
 
Last edited:
I read, re-read and read again from the Nielsen website. It still remains confusing to me.
A "TV HOME" does not correlate to an actual home that have televisions in use? If true,
then fewer that 50% of homes have televisions in regular use? That 50% would seem
very low to me. I guess the process works but seems needlessly complex.

The concept of the "TV home" goes right back to the early days of radio where audience was measured at the "household" level.

The household concept came into being because in the first decades of radio, most homes only had a radio in the living room, and listening was a family occasion. This the measurement of the home rather than the person.

As radio moved into the era of the car, the portable and the kitchen radio, measurement became individual, not by family.

Television started in the same manner: measurement of the one TV in the average home was the accepted and desired method. When metered tv measurement began around 1987 Nielsen could measure the set, but not the number of viewers per set. So the household standard was kept.

And even today, most households do not have one TV per person.

So today, TV markets are measured by household. We know how many households have cable. We know how many have satellite. We know roughly how many use OTA. And we know the area stations cover with either the signal or cable footprint, and that is the basis for the DMA.

Even the US Census gives us data on "dwelling units" (families, shared apartments, etc.) so the idea of a household quantification of TV penetration is quite logical. In fact, the Census (and the interim ACS data) gives Nielsen plenty of data about households, ranging from size to age distribution to educational levels.

One of the most important economic indicators, Consume Spendable Income, is generally expressed as household income. We use PCI (Per Capita Income) to make it more granular, but most economic statistics focus today on household income.
 
Going back to those DMAs...could a group of stations get together in a particular market cry foul and force Neilsen to make a change ?? For example over the years I have read postings by others ( especially on DCRTV ) that the Washington, DC market is too big so if the Baltimore stations believe that as well could they force Neilsen take say Frederick County, Maryland away from the DC DMA and give it to Baltimore ??

There is a lot involved here.

First, if Frederick County has more commuting and business activity between the DC area than Baltimore, this is deal stopper. One of the considerations in DMA definitions is that of the economic hub. And a key is the availability of adequate TV outlets in the hub.

The FCC uses Television Market Areas to determine ownership caps, must-carry requirements and such. They are similar to the Nielsen ratings DMAs in that they both cover much larger areas than the actual signal. And in some cases, they are rather arbitrary; Olean NY is closer to the Erie stations, but is part of the Buffalo DMA, possibly because of the greater commonality of interests by being in the same state.

In some rural or semi-rural areas, the DMA may be based on a group of stations in cities that are not "right next" to each other but where those stations formed early one the viewer base for the national networks... back in the day of tall TV masts with antennas on rotators in every yard. The beyond-the-signal market definitions were formed by early CATV operations where distant signals were imported, etither via translator or by real cable, to far off communities. The principal market each of these systems repeated determined the outer limits of the DMA when that definition was developed. But it is a much more detailed story, and it is really unlikely that a denesly populated urban county would change DMA today.

Arbitron had an equivalent, the Area of Dominant Influence. That is a better-sounding term in that it is stresses the geography, via signal or cable, where a home market's stations represent the greater amount of viewing.
 
Actually a lot of those cities have theme parks within a day's drive. I drove from Miami to Disney World in about five hours. Memphis, Nashville, and Indianapolis are close to Kentucky Kingdom and Dollywood. Raleigh is five hours from Dollywood. One of the issues with theme park construction is the high cost of land and taxes near major population spots. It gets prohibitively expensive.

Raleigh may be a borderline example, as Carowinds (Charlotte), Kings Dominion, and Busch Gardens Williamsburg are all closer than Dollywood and likely a doable day trip. Same with Indy as Kings Island is a doable day trip (Cedar Point and Six Flags Great America [because it's on the north side of Chicago] are stretching it)
 


There is a lot involved here.

First, if Frederick County has more commuting and business activity between the DC area than Baltimore, this is deal stopper. One of the considerations in DMA definitions is that of the economic hub. And a key is the availability of adequate TV outlets in the hub.

The FCC uses Television Market Areas to determine ownership caps, must-carry requirements and such. They are similar to the Nielsen ratings DMAs in that they both cover much larger areas than the actual signal. And in some cases, they are rather arbitrary; Olean NY is closer to the Erie stations, but is part of the Buffalo DMA, possibly because of the greater commonality of interests by being in the same state.

In some rural or semi-rural areas, the DMA may be based on a group of stations in cities that are not "right next" to each other but where those stations formed early one the viewer base for the national networks... back in the day of tall TV masts with antennas on rotators in every yard. The beyond-the-signal market definitions were formed by early CATV operations where distant signals were imported, etither via translator or by real cable, to far off communities. The principal market each of these systems repeated determined the outer limits of the DMA when that definition was developed. But it is a much more detailed story, and it is really unlikely that a denesly populated urban county would change DMA today.

Arbitron had an equivalent, the Area of Dominant Influence. That is a better-sounding term in that it is stresses the geography, via signal or cable, where a home market's stations represent the greater amount of viewing.

Back on topic, Arbitron/Nielsen could have easily assigned counties to more than one DMA [where both markets' stations could be carried syndex and non-duplication free] and/or split some more counties than were.

In Florida, Polk County could have easily been split with most of the county staying in the Tampa market, but the northeast portion (Davenport, Haines City) would have gone to the Orlando market.

Up to Michigan, Monroe County could have been split between the Detroit and Toledo markets using roughly the Raisin River as the divider. Same with Oceana County between the Traverse City and Grand Rapids markets (if not for 29&8, Oceana could have easily gone to the Traverse City market since 7&4 and 9&10 were always popular there [much more than WKZO/WWMT or WOOD]).
 
Arbitron/Nielsen could have easily assigned counties to more than one DMA

Coulda woulda shoulda. The key thing about statistics isn't how definitions are made, but that everyone knows what the DMA entails. You don't have to agree. The definitions are set by Nielsen. If you want to argue, argue with them. But the boundaries were made for a reason, and everyone knows what they are.
 


the concept of the "tv home" goes right back to the early days of radio where audience was measured at the "household" level.

The household concept came into being because in the first decades of radio, most homes only had a radio in the living room, and listening was a family occasion. This the measurement of the home rather than the person.

As radio moved into the era of the car, the portable and the kitchen radio, measurement became individual, not by family.

Television started in the same manner: Measurement of the one tv in the average home was the accepted and desired method. When metered tv measurement began around 1987 nielsen could measure the set, but not the number of viewers per set. So the household standard was kept.

And even today, most households do not have one tv per person.

So today, tv markets are measured by household. We know how many households have cable. We know how many have satellite. We know roughly how many use ota. And we know the area stations cover with either the signal or cable footprint, and that is the basis for the dma.

Even the us census gives us data on "dwelling units" (families, shared apartments, etc.) so the idea of a household quantification of tv penetration is quite logical. In fact, the census (and the interim acs data) gives nielsen plenty of data about households, ranging from size to age distribution to educational levels.

One of the most important economic indicators, consume spendable income, is generally expressed as household income. We use pci (per capita income) to make it more granular, but most economic statistics focus today on household income.


Thanks! Now i get it!
 
Back on topic, Arbitron/Nielsen could have easily assigned counties to more than one DMA [where both markets' stations could be carried syndex and non-duplication free] and/or split some more counties than were.

Not possible; each viewing household can only be counted once for the national ratings.

In Florida, Polk County could have easily been split with most of the county staying in the Tampa market, but the northeast portion (Davenport, Haines City) would have gone to the Orlando market.

And the US could have adopted the metric system like nearly everyone else.

In this case, the DMAs were long ago established, and market growth to rural areas has changed some of the characteristics of a number of markets. But the issues involved in changing the definitions would create controversy and even legal action. The market with a loss of households suffers a billing loss that can be considerable, and cable systems and satellite companies have to realign channels and renegotiate carriage fees. Even "must carry" issues have to be considered.
 
I'm confused. I haven't been in the Hannibal-Quincy market since I worked there briefly in the 80s. Is KTVO co-owned with KHQA? If not, does KTVO still appear on cable since KHQA now has an ABC affiliation on a subchannel?


Isn't KHQA-DT2 a semi-satellite of KTVO and KTVO-DT2 a semi-satellite of KHQA?
 
Is KTVO co-owned with KHQA? If not, does KTVO still appear on cable since KHQA now has an ABC affiliation on a subchannel?



Both are owned by Sinclair so yes they are co-owned.

To answer the other part of your question no they are not. KTVO is not on cable in Hannibal. KHQA is not on cable in Kirksville.
 
Last edited:
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom