M
Mike Walker
Guest
No Part 15 operators are not 'pirates'. However, people who steal the programming of others, and badget it as their own...i.e. broadcasting internet streams without permission...sounds like piracy to me!
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Is HD REALLY worth it?
- Thread starter radiopilot
- Start date
Mike Walker said:
Another clueless wreck... You have no reason to believe if I DO simulcast another webstream that I already have their permission... instead YOU start calling others pirates too?
Tell me are you also paying RIAA for using music on the Podcasts too? Would RIAA like to see your website too?
It's not very nice to call people what they're not!
Thank you!
radiopilot said:
Now lets talk real world. What size audience do you service? Any one of the top 15 or so stations in my market is servicing hundreds of thousands of listeners. Can your stream or transmissioons even be received by thoughsands of people simultaniously? I'm not being insensitive but I am trying to put this discussion into the real world.
E
EasyPeazy
Guest
radiopilot said:Apprarently for someone in the 'radio' buisness for as long as you have, you haven't a clue what Part15 is if you call Part15 broadcasters pirate stations...
They always say 'I do just fine financially' when in reality all they make is peanuts... good luck with that one. :
Funny how you don't post where you air your talent or a site so anyone can listen to that so called talent here, we just get hearsay on your part!
My salary isn't any of your business. I make more money than some people and less than others.
I personally don't care what you believe about me. If it makes you feel better to think I'm po' broke and haven't done what I've said I've done, that's great too. There are people in life that I need to impress, but a part 15 pirate operator from Georgia isn't one of them.
I do know that part 15 devices can't be modified in any way, and fully legal part 15 coverage is so microscopic that it's not worth messing with in most cases. I've used a legal part 15 transmitter to retransmit (rebroadcast wouldn't be an accurate term here) an AM on an FM frequency inside a studio building so everyone could listen in their offices, but the signal didn't get out much past the parking lot.
So if you're fully legal, enjoy broadcasting to your own home and the 5 or 6 homes surrounding you. Have at it - knock yourself out.
Meanwhile, I'll keep doing my thing with real radio stations. 250 µV/m isn't worth my time.
P
paul vincent zecchino
Guest
Yes, let's talk about the real world. The more the real world discovers the well hidden plans for 'our inevitable digital future', the more the real world rejects HD Radio/iBLOC. The real world sees overblown fanciful HD hype and evasions about interference for what they are.
"Protected Contours" are self-serving claptrap cobbled up by cynicasters who use HD's illegal interference to stomp small stations into bankruptcy and limit listeners' choices.
'Steadily rising noise floor?' I live by 3-phase 14KV lines. Florida Power & Light keeps them RF quiet. Besides, doesn't the FCC police interference? What have they been doing? With whom? FCC personnel are disgusted by today's know-nothing corporate-pushover FCC.
AM band was clean when I moved here in '94. I well heard the Bahamas on 810, Cuba all over the dial, and Mexico on several AM channels.
But not today. Not today, thanks to pious greedy-guts who imperiously declare we've 'no right listening to out of contour stations because that hurts your local ones".
Look who's talking about hurting local stations? "We could lose half the AM stations and no one would notice" sez Mr. iNiquity. Talk about a classic damaging admission...
I didn't realize CC and other KronyKasters were 'local'. Does this mean I shouldn't buy groceries at Publix because it hurts the corner convenience store?
HD is a noisy roadblock to the future. BigKorpseKasters devoured stations during the rotten 90s. They fired loyal local talent and replaced them with syndicated junkies whom they fob off as 'talk hosts'.
Predictably, ratings fell. What do to? Short circuit Free Market forces, of course, with a little courtesan help from the FCC. Jam public airwaves, drive stations off the air, and grind listeners into submission.
Do they expect us to fall for their scam? Why blame the Accurian? HD's underlying concept is long obsolete, serially superseded, and fatally flawed.
If BigBoy NoizKasters want ratings? Have they tried compelling programs?
Their jamming turned our once crystal clean spectrum into a sewer of liquid digital dog-doot. KronyKasters needn't worry about indifference, they're earning listener ill will.
The American people, having realized the scam, are of like mind.
Here's how citizens describe iBLOC: "Everything about HD is a lie."
How will HD Cotillion spin its way past citizen ire? By telling the truth? Unprecedented!
Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
19 March, 2007
"Protected Contours" are self-serving claptrap cobbled up by cynicasters who use HD's illegal interference to stomp small stations into bankruptcy and limit listeners' choices.
'Steadily rising noise floor?' I live by 3-phase 14KV lines. Florida Power & Light keeps them RF quiet. Besides, doesn't the FCC police interference? What have they been doing? With whom? FCC personnel are disgusted by today's know-nothing corporate-pushover FCC.
AM band was clean when I moved here in '94. I well heard the Bahamas on 810, Cuba all over the dial, and Mexico on several AM channels.
But not today. Not today, thanks to pious greedy-guts who imperiously declare we've 'no right listening to out of contour stations because that hurts your local ones".
Look who's talking about hurting local stations? "We could lose half the AM stations and no one would notice" sez Mr. iNiquity. Talk about a classic damaging admission...
I didn't realize CC and other KronyKasters were 'local'. Does this mean I shouldn't buy groceries at Publix because it hurts the corner convenience store?
HD is a noisy roadblock to the future. BigKorpseKasters devoured stations during the rotten 90s. They fired loyal local talent and replaced them with syndicated junkies whom they fob off as 'talk hosts'.
Predictably, ratings fell. What do to? Short circuit Free Market forces, of course, with a little courtesan help from the FCC. Jam public airwaves, drive stations off the air, and grind listeners into submission.
Do they expect us to fall for their scam? Why blame the Accurian? HD's underlying concept is long obsolete, serially superseded, and fatally flawed.
If BigBoy NoizKasters want ratings? Have they tried compelling programs?
Their jamming turned our once crystal clean spectrum into a sewer of liquid digital dog-doot. KronyKasters needn't worry about indifference, they're earning listener ill will.
The American people, having realized the scam, are of like mind.
Here's how citizens describe iBLOC: "Everything about HD is a lie."
How will HD Cotillion spin its way past citizen ire? By telling the truth? Unprecedented!
Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
19 March, 2007
paul vincent zecchino said:
Only DXers want to hear The bahmas, Cuba or mexico. Funny though, I can still hear those Cubans here in NY. How could taht be. I haven't heard Mexico since deregulation allowed all those daytimers to operate 24 hours a day. I guess you either didn't hear my IBOC demo or you refuse to acknowledge reality. As another poster mentioned I am in one of the most crowded RF regions in the country, if not the world and yet IBOC on AM and FM works very well here and doesn't Jam other stations as you imply. The issue isn't compelling programing as you and your friends keep repeating. radio today has many more listeners than eny of its competitors. However, radio has to keep up with the times and on FM that means providing more formats for the audience to chose from. The only way that will happen in this competitive industry if to multi stream. The audience for Am is growing older. If you believe that young people who attract advertisers want to hear staticy monophonic sound, you have no idea what you are talking about. Numbers alone don't equate to profit. If you have millions of older listeners you won't bring in the money that hundreds of thousands of ideal demographic listeners bring in. In major markets it's all down to agency sales, not mom and pop stores that bring in the big money. Why do you thijnk so many small AM stations are in such dire financial trouble? many stations are just on the air running syndicated junk which no one is listening to. As someone who has worked in the industry for over 30 years I know what I am talking about here. Bring back the 7,7, 5 ownership rules and bring back daytime operations to restore your well remembered AM broadcast band. It's not going to happen. Take a look at the mess they made of the expanded band. Stations were supposed to go dark after 5 years of simulcasting. In my part of the country 1530, a daytimer in Elizabeth NJ was supposed to go dark. If you remember they were granted the first Expanded band license in the country. Well today 1530 is still on the air and 1660 has only run syndicated junk, never having served the city of license and what was to be a 10K day, 1 K night non directional band now has at least 1 10 K Day & night operation running directional from New Jersey. Don't blame IBOC for any of this. In NY wd have 4 IBOC stations running on 50 Kw clear channels. 3 of them are 1A stations. My demo showed that there is no more inteference to any station from IBOC. Only Dxers would be effected by not being able to listen to Cuba or Mexico on Am radio and Dxers don't pay the bills.
E
EasyPeazy
Guest
paul vincent zecchino said:
This is why the anti-HD crowd here has little credibility. Using terms like "KronyKasters" and "BigKorpseKasters" doesn't do much to bolster your arguments. I certainly hope you use those terms in your correspondence if you write your representatives in Washington. It will make a big impression.
There is no "citizen ire" to speak of as far as IBOC goes. When it comes right down to it, aside from the dozen or so reliable anti-HD guys on this board, the "public" doesn't seem to care much about supposed HD interference. Why? They can't hear it - as R.F. Burns has demonstrated.
Every day the picture about the anti-HD crowd here becomes a little more sharply focused. There's the guy running an LPFM operation with a few translators who realizes HD just won't work for his 74 watt station, the AM DX enthusiast that thinks his hobby is going to evaporate, bitter webcasters who probably couldn't hack it in commercial radio and now the part 15 guy that is running a real station in his mind.
Do any of these people represent the general public? Not by a long shot. They all have vested interests, either driven by the practical limitations of their own hobby/low power operation or they're driven by sheer bitterness and hate.
More misinformation. Thousands of webstreams at this moment are streaming to thousands of listeners. With peer to peer steaming, or multicast the number of listeners is virtually unlimited.R.F. Burns said:
Here is info from just one source (not even peer to peer or multicast) of many:
Current Statistics:
Listeners - 272,830
Servers - 18,765
775,669,061 served
All Natural
No Preservatives
98% FAT FREE!
Example
Vocal Trance Dance Pop] CLUSTER D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - Vocal Trance - a fusion of trance, dance, and chilling vocals (listening now/streams available)
Now Playing: Dj Doboy - The Vocal Edition Volume 18 2854/20730 96 MP3
http://www.shoutcast.com/
As for stations with hundreds of thousands of listeners at any one time, I suggest that is only even remotely possible for the very largest top rated stations, in the very largest markets, not representative of the average radio station nor are major markets where most stations are located.
No truer post ever hit this website!paul vincent zecchino said:
Way to go Doc.
It is great to hear honesty instead of HD hype, lies, huckstering and hypocrisy.
Here is a blog you might enjoy:
http://www.worldsupercaster.blogspot.com/
SUPERCASTER said:
Well we all base our comments on our experiences and I live and work in the number 1 market in the country. in my area where 15 million people live, and were the broadcast bands are packed, the fact that internet broadcasters can not be heard over wide areas away from an internet connection menas that they have few listeners compared with professional broadcasters.
paul vincent zecchino said:
"Protected Contours" is a concept that even predates the FCC, going back to the Federal Radio Commission. In essence, it "guarantees" a station that no other station will step on the fundamental frequency for a certain distance, for the adjacent frequencies for a lesser distance, and the second ajacents for yet a closer distance. For AM, there are both groundwave (day and night ) and skywave (nights) protections.
What a nice anecdote. Most people do not take the time to determine where the noise is coming from and complain. They just don't listen.
The FCC does not enforce man-made (or natural, for that matter) interference. It establishes radiation regulations for things like computers, but in general it is up to the listener to do the complaining and to try to get an improvement. Good luck getting your neighbor to take out the dimmers, by the way.
Similarly, the FCC does not police indecency or profanity. The general public can complain if an incident is perceived to have happened, but the FCC does not monitor content.
In other words, a DXer. There is no protection or guarantee of the ability to hear stations beyond their protected contours.
That, for 70 years, has been FCC policy: to foment local broadcasting. That is why we only have 50 kw as a maximum power... the FCC has long encouraged lots of local stations and no national ones.
Most AMs have outlasted their usefulness. First, listeners under 45 hardly listen at all, and most listening is over 55, a group that can not give a commercial station any chance of surviving. Second, many AMs that served local markets well in the earlier days of radio have found their signal to be inadequate to cover sprawling urban metros, and FMs cover in most cases vastly more than all but a few AMs. An examplë: Washington, DC, has not a single AM that covers the metro day and night.
The stations are local, and mostly staffed locally.
Actually, this is about 90% untrue. Early talk or MOR stations began picking up syndicated talent like Joe Pyne and Bill Ballance in the early 70's... and the repeal of the Fiarness Doctrine in the mid-80's generated the talk format we know today, with countless syndicated talents. Consolidation did not hit till 1996, and had literally no effect on news/talk radio, and minimal effect on music stations.
That is a stone cold lie. Ratings on syndicated talk shows (including everything from Delialah to Rush to Stern) rose incredibly, spawning new networks and new hots by the hundreds. Stations fell all over themselves to get the best ones.
If you are talking about making it harder to hear stations outside their protected contours, the facts are clear from every Arbitron-rated market: nobody was doing that. In fact, AMs in metros get nearly 100% of listening inside the 10 mv/m contours, and FMs inside the 64 dbu contour. Listeners do not enjoy hearing weak, erratic or noisy signals.
It's a nice add-on to what free terrestrial radio can offer. And on FM, the additonal channels are a real plus. On AM, the quality of the HD audio might help to keep AM from dying... although I personally doubt it.
We sepend most of our time trying to do that.
R. F. Burns said:
[/quote]
Now lets talk real world. What size audience do you service? Any one of the top 15 or so stations in my market is servicing hundreds of thousands of listeners. Can your stream or transmissioons even be received by thoughsands of people simultaniously? I'm not being insensitive but I am trying to put this discussion into the real world.
[/quote]
More misinformation. Thousands of webstreams at this moment are streaming to thousands of listeners. With peer to peer steaming, or multicast the number of listeners is virtually unlimited.
Here is info from just one source (not even peer to peer or multicast) of many:
Current Statistics:
Listeners - 272,830
Servers - 18,765
775,669,061 served
All Natural
No Preservatives
98% FAT FREE!
Example
Vocal Trance Dance Pop] CLUSTER D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - Vocal Trance - a fusion of trance, dance, and chilling vocals (listening now/streams available)
Now Playing: Dj Doboy - The Vocal Edition Volume 18 2854/20730 96 MP3
http://www.shoutcast.com/
As for stations with hundreds of thousands of listeners at any one time, I suggest that is only even remotely possible for the very largest top rated stations, in the very largest markets, not representative of the average radio station nor are major markets where most stations are located.
Another Burns quote:
[/quote]
Well we all base our comments on our experiences and I live and work in the number 1 market in the country. in my area where 15 million people live, and were the broadcast bands are packed, the fact that internet broadcasters can not be heard over wide areas away from an internet connection menas that they have few listeners compared with professional broadcasters.
[/quote]
Yet the same "professional broadcasters" also stream on the worldwide internet, and according to Mike Walker have a majority of the streaming audience (wrong). Does that make them unprofessional or amateur broadcasters?
Hams?
So you say 15 stations in the nation's biggest market consistently have "hundreds of thousands of listeners". Out of the other 11,000 radio stations the FCC licenses how many more do you think have similar numbers? Not many.
Yes, hundreds of thousands of simultaneous listeners are not only possible over the internet, but there are also thousands of high quality video streams running at the same time.
So you are wrong again, as usual.
"real world"?
Most American's "real world" is not New York City, and most radio stations do not consistently have "hundreds of thousands" of simultaneous listeners.
You post to mislead.
So there should be little need or space for HD radio.
[/quote]
Now lets talk real world. What size audience do you service? Any one of the top 15 or so stations in my market is servicing hundreds of thousands of listeners. Can your stream or transmissioons even be received by thoughsands of people simultaniously? I'm not being insensitive but I am trying to put this discussion into the real world.
[/quote]
More misinformation. Thousands of webstreams at this moment are streaming to thousands of listeners. With peer to peer steaming, or multicast the number of listeners is virtually unlimited.
Here is info from just one source (not even peer to peer or multicast) of many:
Current Statistics:
Listeners - 272,830
Servers - 18,765
775,669,061 served
All Natural
No Preservatives
98% FAT FREE!
Example
Vocal Trance Dance Pop] CLUSTER D I G I T A L L Y - I M P O R T E D - Vocal Trance - a fusion of trance, dance, and chilling vocals (listening now/streams available)
Now Playing: Dj Doboy - The Vocal Edition Volume 18 2854/20730 96 MP3
http://www.shoutcast.com/
As for stations with hundreds of thousands of listeners at any one time, I suggest that is only even remotely possible for the very largest top rated stations, in the very largest markets, not representative of the average radio station nor are major markets where most stations are located.
Another Burns quote:
[/quote]
Well we all base our comments on our experiences and I live and work in the number 1 market in the country. in my area where 15 million people live, and were the broadcast bands are packed, the fact that internet broadcasters can not be heard over wide areas away from an internet connection menas that they have few listeners compared with professional broadcasters.
[/quote]
Yet the same "professional broadcasters" also stream on the worldwide internet, and according to Mike Walker have a majority of the streaming audience (wrong). Does that make them unprofessional or amateur broadcasters?
Hams?
So you say 15 stations in the nation's biggest market consistently have "hundreds of thousands of listeners". Out of the other 11,000 radio stations the FCC licenses how many more do you think have similar numbers? Not many.
Yes, hundreds of thousands of simultaneous listeners are not only possible over the internet, but there are also thousands of high quality video streams running at the same time.
So you are wrong again, as usual.
"real world"?
Most American's "real world" is not New York City, and most radio stations do not consistently have "hundreds of thousands" of simultaneous listeners.
You post to mislead.
So there should be little need or space for HD radio.
P
paul vincent zecchino
Guest
You know what people love more than HD jammers roaring all over formerly clean spectrum? Even more than learning billions of radios worth trillions of their dollars are now rendered worthless by a poodle FCC that's asleep & in bed with HD Korpseorados?
They really love the steady brown stream of misleading pieties flowing from HD Cotillion's turkey-snout like brown stool-water in castro's cholera wards. That's what they really love.
The HD Cotillion and its shills - who hide behind fake names - can neither answer questions honestly and nor refute concerns truthfully.
What marks Them? The fact they've an answer for everything. They're always on the defensive, whining the victim song while attacking any and all who dare question them.
I am honored by their nonsensical reply to my debut drivel.
It pleases me as it should please all radio lovers, that HD Bund sinks itself. They foolishly deny jamming, and thus serve notice upon listeners they're never to be trusted. Better yet, HD Bund saves consumers a lot of work. How? All we need do is greet them, and they start with that overblown defensiveness that marks everyone with much to hide.
As one astute writer, above, so succinctly posted,
"You post to mislead".
Might that make a nice HD slogan?
"TeamBLOC - We Post to Mislead!"
- or -
"HD Radio - It Jams!"
I think so. May good health be yours!
Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
19 March, 2007
They really love the steady brown stream of misleading pieties flowing from HD Cotillion's turkey-snout like brown stool-water in castro's cholera wards. That's what they really love.
The HD Cotillion and its shills - who hide behind fake names - can neither answer questions honestly and nor refute concerns truthfully.
What marks Them? The fact they've an answer for everything. They're always on the defensive, whining the victim song while attacking any and all who dare question them.
I am honored by their nonsensical reply to my debut drivel.
It pleases me as it should please all radio lovers, that HD Bund sinks itself. They foolishly deny jamming, and thus serve notice upon listeners they're never to be trusted. Better yet, HD Bund saves consumers a lot of work. How? All we need do is greet them, and they start with that overblown defensiveness that marks everyone with much to hide.
As one astute writer, above, so succinctly posted,
"You post to mislead".
Might that make a nice HD slogan?
"TeamBLOC - We Post to Mislead!"
- or -
"HD Radio - It Jams!"
I think so. May good health be yours!
Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
19 March, 2007
SUPERCASTER said:
60% of the US population is in the top 100 markets alone. And 30% of all of radio's ad revenues are in the top 10 markets. So the bulk of listening and the bulk of revenues are in very few markets and among very few stations.
Even in a market near the bottom of the top 100, over a q8uarter-million local listenrs tune in each week.
Internet streams do not add to the listening audience of radio stations. In fact, with the new RIAA fees, it may be too expensive for nearly anyone to stream any more.
Any of them probably has more local listeners in thier coverage area than any streaming audio station... probable, in most cases, more than all the streams combined.
You are comparing local terrestrial stations with finite coverage with streams that can be listened to anywhere in the world. A few square miles of coverage vs. the entire planet. Not a valid or fair comparison.
But... at current levels of listening, in each market or metro, no stream comes anywhere close to even the lowest rated stations. And at the moment, the fees for so many streams would be thousands of dollars an hour...
paul vincent zecchino said:
The truth is so simple that it is obvious to all except DXers and Luddites like you.
1. HD sounds better, both on AM and FM
2. HD vastly improves AM, and may have some hope of rescuing a dying band.
3. HD does not interfere with any signal with any statistically significant listening.
4. HD does not interfere inside the protected contours of any station, AM or FM.
5. HD is a long-term enhancement for terrestrial radio, and gives extra quality and extra channels to the listener.
The few affected parties will have to take their R390's and make an artificial reef off the coast of your Cay.
DavidEduardo said:
Nice research, David. Also note there is NO interference at the locale where this person's QTH, Englewood, FL. Every station is at least 4th adjacent. If you switch to "Distant Mode" 2nd adjacent max. As per the worlds most unreliable source - Radio-locator.com. The detractors get more desperate---and the claims get more wild.
Gotta love it.
Clouseau.
More deception Eduardo or just your mistake?
R. F. Burns falsely claimed the internet can not handle hundreds of thousands of simultaneous station streams. I showed him proof from only one of many sources that it already does.
www.shoutcast.com
At the time of posting:
Current Statistics:
Listeners - 272,830
Servers - 18,765
775,669,061 served
All Natural
No Preservatives
98% FAT FREE!
I said:
Eduardo replied:
Remember, I said:
You are talking about radio revenues, and a weekly cume of 250,000. That is listenership spread out over an entire week. How many simultaneous listeners is that?
So your point, as usual, is irrelevant to the discussion, and you are you confused between simultaneous listeners and weekly cumulative listeners.
A weekly cume of 250,000 works out to a quarter hour average simultaneous listenership of less then 500 listeners. (18 rating hour days x 7 days a week x 4 quarter hours = 504 divided into the number of weekly cume listeners).
504 into 250,000 = 496 (averaged) quarter hour listeners. A far cry from the hundreds of thousands you imply.
Red herrings again!
R. F. Burns falsely claimed the internet can not handle hundreds of thousands of simultaneous station streams. I showed him proof from only one of many sources that it already does.
www.shoutcast.com
At the time of posting:
Current Statistics:
Listeners - 272,830
Servers - 18,765
775,669,061 served
All Natural
No Preservatives
98% FAT FREE!
I said:
Eduardo replied:
Remember, I said:
You are talking about radio revenues, and a weekly cume of 250,000. That is listenership spread out over an entire week. How many simultaneous listeners is that?
So your point, as usual, is irrelevant to the discussion, and you are you confused between simultaneous listeners and weekly cumulative listeners.
A weekly cume of 250,000 works out to a quarter hour average simultaneous listenership of less then 500 listeners. (18 rating hour days x 7 days a week x 4 quarter hours = 504 divided into the number of weekly cume listeners).
504 into 250,000 = 496 (averaged) quarter hour listeners. A far cry from the hundreds of thousands you imply.
Red herrings again!
SUPERCASTER said:
Shoutcast has thousands of different streams or "servers". Any one of them has a tiny number of simultaneous listeners... probably in the hundreds or less.
Depending on TSL, 10,000 to 20,000.
And that is in a market near the bottom of the top 100... probably 500 to 1000 times the listenership of the average Shoutcast "stations."
Simultaneous listenrs is called Average Quarter Hour listenership. It is just one of three ways of saying the same thing: AQH listening, share and rating.
No, it does not. It depends on how many quarter hours each listener gives to the station. In the case given, the station gets around 40 quarter hours per average listener, so the AQH level is about 12,000
Do your math on KLVE in Los Angeles. Cume of 1.2 million, aveage listenership 6-Mid of 85,000 persons, TSL of 36 quarter hours per listener per week. Your math is absurd, in other words.
DavidEduardo said:
I ain't got a Cay, and you can put your R390 back up where it belongs, and stop waving it at people.
As for being "Luddite"(s) most here would support digital FM radio like FMeXtra that does not trespass on it's neighbors, or cause additional interference. So you are wrong again. Quite a bad habit you have.
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