Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

[nocomradio]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

This is a common misconception about broadcasting in general. The listeners/viewers are not the customers. They don't pay the bills. They are the product, and are sold to the advertisers. Listener-supported radio is different, of course, but we're talking about commercial radio here.

Dave B.

OK, so why bother even playing music then? Why not just sell ad time 24/7 and send a clear message that the listener really isn't in the equation.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

OK, so why bother even playing music then?

Music is the attraction.

Think of radio as a concert venue. The venue doesn't care what kind of event is booked. Just as long as people come. They use various genres of music, or types of entertainement, to attract people. They charge the event for the use of the venue, and also sell advertising to sponsors whose names you see throughout the venue.

So the listener IS in the equation. And radio stations spend a lot of money and time determinining what music attracts the most people. Once again, just because you aren't one of the people they're targeting doesn't mean listeners aren't in the equation.

 

[weav]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

OK, so why bother even playing music then? Why not just sell ad time 24/7 and send a clear message that the listener really isn't in the equation.

Who would listen then? Ads aren't much good with nobody listening.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Aside from a few select stations that are "brave" enough to test the unnavigated waters (deeper cuts, original jingles..etc..) to listener's delight....most classic hits stations today are just underperforming and to many, do not sound attractive anymore to listen as a real source for their "favorite" music.

Many people are dissatisfied with radio today. Ask anyone on the street and see what feedback you'll receive.

It's slowly going downhill.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

most classic hits stations today are just underperforming and to many, do not sound attractive anymore to listen as a real source for their "favorite" music.

That's simply false. Check the ratings for stations like WCBS or KOOL and you'll see they are among the highest rated stations in their town.

As I keep saying: Just because YOU don't like radio or their playlists doesn't mean the majority of people agree.

Radio isn't supposed to be a personal music service. You can subscribe to such services or design your own personal station to serve your personal taste. Being that kind of service is not what radio stations are attempting to do.

 

[Phedeks]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Aside from a few select stations that are "brave" enough to test the unnavigated waters (deeper cuts, original jingles..etc..) to listener's delight....most classic hits stations today are just underperforming and to many, do not sound attractive anymore to listen as a real source for their "favorite" music.

Many people are dissatisfied with radio today. Ask anyone on the street and see what feedback you'll receive.

It's slowly going downhill.

You're trying to explain something to people who get paid by clear channel to give BS answers that Radio is great and doing great. The facts don't matter to them, they'd rather keep saying nothing is true and radio is doing well. Or something about how we are all wrong and the radio execs are all right and not losing money. Fact is commercial radio today sucks and most people who have listened to modern commercial radio agree. The music being played is CRAP with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 songs. The amount of commercials sucks, the repeat rotation sucks, the morning shows are nothing but more of the same music with a joke thrown in here or there. Why can't JV & Rico talk more during his show? We have options now to not hear 20 minutes of BS commercials that don't influence anybody to buy their crap & shitty music.

 

[DavidKaye]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

The amount of commercials sucks, the repeat rotation sucks, the morning shows are nothing but more of the same music with a joke thrown in here or there. Why can't JV & Rico talk more during his show? We have options now to not hear 20 minutes of BS commercials that don't influence anybody to buy their crap & shitty music.

What they're doing WORKS. That's the bottom line. If you don't like it, then round up your friends and family and go out and buy an existing station. They're out there. If you can't afford the big ones then ask yourself why is that? Because they're making MONEY. Why are they making money? Because advertisers get results when they advertise on them. Why do they get results? Because people LISTEN.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

You're trying to explain something to people who get paid by clear channel to give BS answers

I don't work for Clear Channel. I work for myself. And the facts are clear. A handful of people want big playlists and deep cuts. They hate everything, including SiriusXM. I can post hundreds of comments about them too.

It's not about what I think is right or wrong, but what the facts say. And they don't substantiate any of the claims you or the other critics believe. No one can make a business appealing to a handful of music lovers. We've all tried, and wasted our time, because the critics are never satisfied, and the playlist simply is never big enough to match your own personal collection. If you have other options, why are you complaining? Listen to your other options.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

You're trying to explain something to people who get paid by clear channel to give BS answers that Radio is great and doing great.

Believe it or not, about 12 out of every 13 radio station employees actually works for Clear Channel, by my estimate. Those that don't work for Clear Channel actually compete with them, so they would not be likely to toe any supposed Clear Channel line, in any case.

No business or industry sector is doing "great." We're going into a second recession.

Even the sectors that are supposedly immune to troubled times are in trouble. Even the old "people don't stop dying" adage does not work as folks are buying less expensive funerals and services because times are hard.

The facts don't matter to them, they'd rather keep saying nothing is true and radio is doing well.

The first fact is that nobody is denying that radio lost about 30% or so of its total revenue since the recession started, and only a tick or two have been recovered. Most is due to the economy, and then there is the part due to changes in entertainment options as a second punch.

Or something about how we are all wrong and the radio execs are all right and not losing money.

Good stations continue to make money. Just less money. Throughout the last five or 6 decades, about half of all stations have lost money or only broken even, so "dog" stations are nothing new... complicated by things like Docket 80-90, which was not something wished for by the "big guys" for the most part.

Fact is commercial radio today sucks and most people who have listened to modern commercial radio agree.

The real fact is that commercial radio is generally as good as it can be in these times. About 95% of all persons use radio, and despite the fact that listening time is fragmented somewhat by other options, radio is used nearly universally... and a lot by a huge segment of the population.

If you consult a group of people who are not recruited due to station usage but by taste sectors you don't find significant dissatisfaction. You find more entertainment options are used, but very few say "radio sucks" while many consider radio a compliment to other media or a convenient way of getting information or entertainment.

The music being played is CRAP with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 songs. The amount of commercials sucks, the repeat rotation sucks, the morning shows are nothing but more of the same music with a joke thrown in here or there. Why can't JV & Rico talk more during his show? We have options now to not hear 20 minutes of BS commercials that don't influence anybody to buy their crap & shitty music.

You have opinions on music that are your own. You have opinions on rotations that are shared by nearly nobody. You have an inconsistency about whether you want more music or more talk in the morning.

And, yeah, I'll agree that radio has to be very conscious of the commercial load if it wants to compete directly with your iPod or Pandora. But, maybe, there is opportunity to deal with this gradually over time... not by tomorrow as you seem to want.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

As I keep saying: Just because YOU don't like radio or their playlists doesn't mean the majority of people agree.

There is no absolute proof of that. Many people I've talked too dislike radio because their favorite songs are never played or there's too much talk (ie..morning shows) than music. And hearing the same songs constantly rotated is a big drawback to these people.

Radio isn't supposed to be a personal music service. You can subscribe to such services or design your own personal station to serve your personal taste. Being that kind of service is not what radio stations are attempting to do.

Never said that....but stations need to expand and add in a "new" oldie every so often to freshen up the playlist and variety, just like 690 Pueblo. Every song that was a hit in the past is someone's favorite out there today. And this DOES NOT apply to the people who tested the 400 song playlists. It's the other "thousands or millions" of other potential listeners who never had the chance to test and give their choices. Do you think that all these other folks agree with what the testers approved of??

And please don't mention that those few folks in the auditorium who tested the 400 songs, represent by replication, the other 99.99% of the population who never tested. I don't buy that at all.

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Because people LISTEN.

Some people listen because it may be the only classic hits station around, so they will take what they can get, even if it's forced-fed to them, but they are still mostly dissatisfied listeners. Anyone will tell you that....not rocket science here.

And the reasons are plentiful.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

And please don't mention that those few folks in the auditorium who tested the 400 songs, represent by replication, the other 99.99% of the population who never tested. I don't buy that at all.

Replication is not a form of representation. Replication is a process used to validate the accuracy of a statistical sample. If you take a population of a million, and find that you can test cake mixes or cars or songs with a representative sample of 100 and you get the same result each time (that is, you found the data replicates), then you can test 1000 persons or 10000 persons or 100000 persons and you will get the same result. Replication studies help determine the accuracy of the specified sample size.

A classic hits music test will be as many as 1500 songs. And tests are repeated with a certain frequency, as the listeners change (some come in-demo and some leave your target every year) and competition changes.

Sampling using a representative cross-section of a desired population group is used by companies from P&G and Coke to local radio stations. Remember that this form of consumer research was created by P&G in the 30's and that company found that talking to a small sample of consumers could give insights into both new products and existing ones.

 

[DavidKaye]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Look at what you're saying. FIRST you say this:

There is no absolute proof of that. Many people I've talked too dislike radio because their favorite songs are never played or there's too much talk

And THEN you say this:

And please don't mention that those few folks in the auditorium who tested the 400 songs, represent by replication, the other 99.99% of the population who never tested. I don't buy that at all.

SO, you're saying that "people you talk to" are somehow a more accurate sample than people in an auditorium testing songs, and yet, those people are selected by precise demographic measures whereas you friends are simply a sampling of like-minded people (your friends).

Do you see the inconsistency here?

 

[oldies76]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

SO, you're saying that "people you talk to" are somehow a more accurate sample than people in an auditorium testing songs, and yet, those people are selected by precise demographic measures whereas you friends are simply a sampling of like-minded people (your friends).

I'm just saying that anyone I've spoken to about radio and their favorite songs would not necessarily have the same opinion as to what songs should be played on the radio, as determined by the folks who test songs for radio. In other words, other folks may rather hear some lower charting singles that they like, vs. hearing burnt-out top hits over and over. People get tired of the same redundant thing, everyday.....like the weather, like June gloom in August, like sub-quality movies, like constant freeway traffic, and the same presentation on radio with the same songs.

People like changes and playing a "new" tune in the mix ever so often, in my opinion would appeal, because it's change and something different, otherwise known as variety.

 

[SFStatic]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Research or no, anyone who programs a library format like oldies or classic rock, and doesn't move a few tunes out to rest and bring in some others that haven't been aired in a while every week is an idiot. This has to be done constantly in a library format...and it can be a surprisingly small number of songs rolled in and out to make a difference in the station sound.

 

[TheBigA]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

There is no absolute proof of that. Many people I've talked too dislike radio because their favorite songs are never played or there's too much talk (ie..morning shows) than music. And hearing the same songs constantly rotated is a big drawback to these people.

The people you talk to are a relatively small group. We survey millions. And the facts are that 93% listen to and enjoy OTA radio, and are so satisfied with the service that they choose NOT to pay for services like SiriusXM. The people who agree with you also don't like SiriusXM for the same reason. They complain about the small playlist and that their favorite songs are never played.

As for "too much talk," when WCBS replaced their DJs with Jack, the listeners complained they wanted their friends back. Jack is a fine format, with minimal talk, but listeners to classic hits want personality, and that means talk.

As I've said, it's not the job of radio to be a personal music service. You want to hear your favorite songs? Buy them load them in an mp3 player, and enjoy them! That's why those devices are available. Radio is not a substitute or replacement for mp3 players. Personal music devices have been available for over 100 years, and that's how you are supposed to hear your favorite songs. When we talk to people who want deep cuts, they tell us they already own the songs they want to hear already. So listen to them on your own device in your own home. Radio is not competing with personal devices. Our research says that music lovers do both: OTA radio AND personal music devices.

 

[weav]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

... Personal music devices have been available for over 100 years, and that's how you are supposed to hear your favorite songs....

(perplexed look) What, player pianos? Harmonicas?

 

[mikecroaro]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

Because people LISTEN.

Some people listen because it may be the only classic hits station around, so they will take what they can get, even if it's forced-fed to them, but they are still mostly dissatisfied listeners. Anyone will tell you that....not rocket science here.

And the reasons are plentiful.

This is a very good point. Many markets have only 1 station playing a certain format, whereas years ago they might have have had 2, or even 3.

As such a meodocre oldies/C. Hits station scores high ratings because listining to a poorly programed format is better than nothing for the listiners.

Mike

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

This is a very good point. Many markets have only 1 station playing a certain format, whereas years ago they might have have had 2, or even 3.

As such a meodocre oldies/C. Hits station scores high ratings because listining to a poorly programed format is better than nothing for the listiners.

You just defeated your own argument.

If there were two or three stations in a format 15 or 20 years ago, and one now the difference is that the other station or two have moved into different formats. Instead of three CHRs, there is a Churban and a CHR and some other variant.

Competition does not come entirely from stations with identical formats; it comes from stations that appeal in different ways to the same listener. There is a lot of evidence that people don't switch as much between stations that are the same as they do between ones that are different... stations that fit moods, occasions and location.

The average person in PPM markets listens to 6 to 7 stations in a single week, and several more if we look at several weeks.

Just because a station does not have a direct competitor does not mean that it can relax... the biggest threat comes from lateral attacks, not frontal ones. Every other station in a market is your competitor, even if they are down the hall from you.

 

[DavidKaye]

Re: Is it possible for a Radio Station that doesn't play the same songs over & over?

(perplexed look) What, player pianos? Harmonicas?

Actually, yes. Well, sheet music actually. Used to be that when somebody heard a song they liked, they bought the sheet music and brought it home and played it on their home piano. If they didn't have the skill they'd either bring in a friend or relative to play or they'd spring for a player piano and get rolls. About 2 years ago the salvage place, Urban Ore in Berkeley had hundreds of player piano rolls, many dating to the 1920s.