• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Is Jack the problem or are the listeners the problem?

I don't think so

> >> I'll say it again. Jack is not a small town radio format
> anymore. It is doing well in many other cities and markets.
> >>
> You, my friend, are clueless. After New York, they're ALL
> small markets. Jack is doomed in New York.

You consider 4, 5, or 6 million people in another city small? Los Angeles has, what 9 or 10 million people?
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radiolover78 on 09/21/05 10:31 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> >
> I think you are thinking of Ground Hog Day and not CBS FM.
> Are you talking recently of historically. I've been
> listening to the station since 1971 and that song wasn't
> played very often in my memory.
>


No, I'm not thing of Groundhog day. It was a staple of CBS FM in the last 4-5 yeears as was The 4 Tops "Same Old Song" and the Righteous Brothers "Unchained Melody" to name a few.
 
> > Really? Then explain to me why it's working in LA,
>
> It replaced a dismal station. Like I said, it's L.A.
> Marriages don't last too long and neither will this.

Wait a minute. I said that Jack replaced a heritage oldies station and you say that means nothing. Then you say this. You flip flop on your statements.
>
> Explain why it's holding steady in Chicago, where the demos
> are getting younger and more saleable.
>
> Only in radio could less mean more to people. The numbers
> are younger and dwindling. The idea was to increase revenue
> by changing the demographic, they'll bill less and the
> entire thing won't equate to higher billing or higher
> numbers so it's a stupid idea.

How do you know? Are you a psychic? You don't know what will happen.
>
> It's a small market radio format.

Stop it with this small market garbage.
>
> Researching a variety of songs from 5 formats leaves you
> with someone's impression of something at that moment, in a
> few days they'll change the mind, a few days more, they'll
> change it again.
>
> This whole argument of them "playing more music" is silly.

The listeners may think it isn't silly. They want "more music". It isn't a silly argument.
>
> I love the excuse new stations take time to develop and yet
> management has to turn billing around fast for a station
> failing in the cluster. So which excuse dhould we go with?
> They're excuses for bad moves. You never hear an excuse when
> a station comes along and explodes in ratings within one or
> two books. Then we hear the "oh, they're new, we'll see
> where they settle. Bad moves take time to wither away and
> die or it takes time for the execs to create a justification
> for a move made that didn't enhance the cluster such as "it
> takes time". LOL!

Its not an excuse. You need to give these stations time. What'd you expect? An instantly successful station? Come on! It takes time for new stations to make a home on the radio dial in a city. GIVE IT A CHANCE!

>
> Radio execs have an excuse written for any possible failure
> it tries to spin into success. The real story is many of
> those running it don't really know what's happening out
> there and are out of touch with most who USED to listen to
> radio.


You don't know whats happening either after reading your posts and debating with you.
>
>
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
> How long ago did CBS FM play group harmony records other
> than on the doo wop show? NEW FM in its heyday played doo
> wop as well as everything else except disco and bubblegum.
> It was NEW FM that would play music that no one else would
> play including WPLJ. CBS FM was an oldies station. That's
> what they played. They haven't had an extensive playlist in
> years. The problem with CBS FM was, it was an AARP station.
> They had lots of plus 50 year old people. Stations can not
> program to the senior sect and continue to make money.
> That's why you don't hear standards on FM radio (you don't
> hear them anywhere in NYC). So it will be with oldies and
> one day classic rock.
>
CBS FM played group records starting in 1971 until approx 2000 or so. May have been more recent than that. In the late 90's I remember hearing them play the Ravens count every star. WNEW has NEVER played group records. Again, I am 49 and listened until Infinity fired Joe McCoy, my daughter at 18 had WCBS on in a preset on her car radio, Her friends would sing along to Marvin and Tammy's Ain't nothing like the real thing. I live 30 minutes from midtown and am in NYC every day. I used to hear CBS FM in stores all over the city. You could walk down the street in the summer and hear CBS FM. CBS FM had big 25 to 54 numbers Mid 3's and rising. In conversations with many other NY broadcasters, people with 30 and more years of experience and every one thinks that this was a foolish move. So far things don't look good. Let's see where we are in a year but I am hearing that Jan 1st is a good date to watch. It appears you either like to debate or have some interest in jack or some problem with those of us who enjoyed WCBS FM. In any event I'd look into my soul because the fact that you are so unhappy that we, the listeners don't enjoy the new format is something that would concern me.
 
> WNEW has NEVER played group records


Really? Can you prove that? We are talking about the FM station right? I'd like to see you back up that statement with any verifiable facts.

>CBS FM had big 25 to 54 numbers Mid 3's and rising


Yes they were big with the AARP crowd and those nearing AARP age. For someone who claims to have working in radio for such a long time, the way you overlook the reality of New York radio being advertising driven makes me question what the heck you know about New York radio. It isn't about numbers, its demos. Oldies are a dead demo for advertisers.

>I am hearing that Jan 1st is a good date to watch

I'm sure I'll be enjoying the rose parade on Jan 1st.


>It appears you either like to debate or have some interest in jack or some >problem with those of us who enjoyed WCBS FM. In any event I'd look into my >soul because the fact that you are so unhappy that we, the listeners don't >enjoy the new format is something that would concern me.

I do like to debate. I'm not unhappy you don't like Jack. I like oldies music. I don't like oldies radio and I'm not unhappy that its gone. It's people like you who can't accept that there may be people who don't share you love for the former CBS FM. You can't accept the fact that your day in the sun with oldies radio is over with. Get over it Bob. Get on with your life.
 
> NEW FM in its heyday played doo
> wop as well as everything else except disco and bubblegum.

When did WNEW-FM play any doo wop? I dont mean Flash Cadillac or Sha Na Na either....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.125.155:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
> > NEW FM in its heyday played doo
> > wop as well as everything else except disco and bubblegum.
>
>
> When did WNEW-FM play any doo wop? I dont mean Flash
> Cadillac or Sha Na Na either....
>

In is't free form days of the late 60's and early 70's they played every kind of music. Vin Scelsa contiues to play music today from all styles of music.
 
Re: I Luv "I Got You Babe"

> > "Jack" is Wack & it ain't making a ComeBack!
>
>
> Last I heard, oldies is dead and not being resurrected in
> NYC. Deal with that lulu.
>
UB40 and Chrissy Hyde anyone? (LOL?) <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
> > WNEW has NEVER played group records
>
>
> Really? Can you prove that? We are talking about the FM
> station right? I'd like to see you back up that statement
> with any verifiable facts.
>

To your acceptance, no. But I work with people who worked at WNEW in the 60's and who have provided me with air checks and I have never in my 49 years of sampling heard group records on WNEW.

> >CBS FM had big 25 to 54 numbers Mid 3's and rising
>
>
> Yes they were big with the AARP crowd and those nearing AARP
> age. For someone who claims to have working in radio for
> such a long time, the way you overlook the reality of New
> York radio being advertising driven makes me question what
> the heck you know about New York radio. It isn't about
> numbers, its demos. Oldies are a dead demo for advertisers.

This is a subject that many in the industry disagree with and WCBS FM was still very profitable.
>
>
> >I am hearing that Jan 1st is a good date to watch
>
> I'm sure I'll be enjoying the rose parade on Jan 1st.
>
>

You are quite the whit


> >It appears you either like to debate or have some interest
> in jack or some >problem with those of us who enjoyed WCBS
> FM. In any event I'd look into my >soul because the fact
> that you are so unhappy that we, the listeners don't >enjoy
> the new format is something that would concern me.
>
> I do like to debate. I'm not unhappy you don't like Jack.
> I like oldies music. I don't like oldies radio and I'm not
> unhappy that its gone.

You don't know a thing about me, but it is obvious that you have some deep seated issues. If you don't like oldies radio, fine. If you love album rock, fine. If you think you are a superior intelect great. If you get joy out of the fact that others have lost their station like you lost yours, may I suggest you grow up. I'm just happy that I don't know you because it is obvious you have some real problems. Enjoy your life.
 
Jack

Yeah, right- we've heard it all from you already:

*stupid (your opinion- not fact)
*small market (Variety Hits format is succeeding in large AND major markets)
*laughable (a surprising number laugh at your sour grapes ravings)
*they know nothing about radio (which is REALLY saying you know everything)
*dumbest idea for a major market (we forgot-you're mr. major league and
everybody else not in NYC is in the minors)
* etc. etc. etc.

You use the same mind-numbing, small-minded, ultra-cynical language. And you don't realize that, despite your posturing as some sort of "major market radio god", you come off very, very small market.

For somebody who has so much vile and venom toward a format (and now, it appears, an industry), why do you invest so much of your time and emotion into giving JACK attention if it's really that awful to you?

In the end, radio listeners all over the country are really liking the Variety Hits approach. Funny how your negative, cynical thinking hasn't affected them nor the Arbitron diaries they're filling out.




> Answer: It's a stupid idea. Do you really think that because
> a variety of played out hits and a few that have had the
> dust blown off is what people have been looking for? And
> because you're the superior intellect everyone else is
> stupid and unsophisticated because they don't like the idea?
> Sickening.
>
> It's a small market style type format. It's laughable. Even
> those who know nothing about radio get thrown for a loop
> with the transitions of music. It's absolutely the dumbest
> idea for a major market I've ever heard. It's like they went
> to the salvation army and got a bunch of cds for 10 cents a
> piece and played them as they came in. Just because they're
> playing variety doesn't mean it's a variety PEOPLE want to
> hear or like. That's not about being sophisticated or
> superior it's about NOT LIKING IT.
 
Oh well, if you never heard something, it never happened right Bob?

The industry agree's that CBS FM had demo problems which NO ONE, {repeat with me Bob} NO ONE wants to pick up and it's advertising was down 20$.

You just can't help yourself can you Bob? You should heed your own words and look in the mirror. You are everything you post about me. No wonder you know the words so well.
 
> Better that than Metalica or the Beastie Boys or Bruce
> Springstein and his wimpy Jersey shore rock. As for me, I'll
> take the Bonnevilles Zu Zu any day. That is NY music.
>
The Beastie Boys released what might be one of the best testaments to the thrills and joys of growing up in New York City called Paul's Boutique. And who the hell are the Bonnevilles?!
 
> Robert, C'mon pal, I was using those artists as a way of
> relating the type of music that doesn't sell in NY radio.
> Let's try to do a litttle better, OK? Look Jack so far is a
> failure. Les Hollindar today in the Daily News was almost
> bragging that with patience over the period of a year
> they've gotten WNEW FM's ratings up to a 2.1. That's truly a
> pathetic thing to brag about. Oh and I am not a physician. I
> am a broadcaster. Perhaps you think I'm someone else?
>
Robert's right, You are a snob Bob!! Maybe you'd be more comfortable posting on the dentist's board since boilerplate observations of what New Yorkers enjoy listening to are usually most welcome there (in place of orignal thought that is)! The Beastie Boys don't have a place in New York radio?! Yeah, sure guy...
 
> Oh well, if you never heard something, it never happened
> right Bob?
>
> The industry agree's that CBS FM had demo problems which NO
> ONE, {repeat with me Bob} NO ONE wants to pick up and it's
> advertising was down 20$.
>
> You just can't help yourself can you Bob? You should heed
> your own words and look in the mirror. You are everything
> you post about me. No wonder you know the words so well.
>
Why do you make this so personal Robert? You have from the start had a snide attitude towards my postings which have gotten us to where we are now. You believe what you want, it has no effect on me or what will or won't occur. The only things you've said that I agree with are your posts concerning Air America. Let's see what happens at the end of the year. I think it would do us all well if we were to post our age when we comment. I've read many posts where the absolute "hate" for the previous format and group who listened to it shines through. The delight some seem to take at the demise of "oldies" as a format is sick, in my opinion. I've stated my opinion and will continue with my life, unaffected by whatever happens at CBS FM. Oh and take a look at the NY Arbitrends. There are now at least 3 suburban oldies stations making the ratings in the NY book since the change. Add their numbers together and you get a 1.3 which for stations who don't cover the majority of the NY market is pretty good and WLNG in Sag Harbour, an Oldies station, is number 1 with an 8.2! By the way I'm 49.
 
> > Robert, C'mon pal, I was using those artists as a way of
> > relating the type of music that doesn't sell in NY radio.
> > Let's try to do a litttle better, OK? Look Jack so far is
> a
> > failure. Les Hollindar today in the Daily News was almost
> > bragging that with patience over the period of a year
> > they've gotten WNEW FM's ratings up to a 2.1. That's truly
> a
> > pathetic thing to brag about. Oh and I am not a physician.
> I
> > am a broadcaster. Perhaps you think I'm someone else?
> >
> Robert's right, You are a snob Bob!! Maybe you'd be more
> comfortable posting on the dentist's board since boilerplate
> observations of what New Yorkers enjoy listening to are
> usually most welcome there (in place of orignal thought that
> is)! The Beastie Boys don't have a place in New York radio?!
> Yeah, sure guy...
>
Yea they do have a place, in Sparta NJ. NY is not like Boston or Seattle. It's an R&B town and the Beasties are not R&B. Take a look at the ratings and count the stations that plays groups like the beastie boys in NYC. There are 3 English language R&B stations in the top ten playing urban music and together they garnered a 15.5 in the last trend. I'm not a snob but I am someone who has worked in the industry for over 25 years and knows what he's talking about. If you think that makes me a snob, it may be time for you to read a dictionary and look up the definition of the word snob.
 
Re: RE: JACK is the problem

> Right here on my I-Pod and on my
> > CD Collection! All My Music, All the Time, My way in the
> > order I want to hear them without any stupid commercials
> > seven minutes at a time. CBS-FM or Jack-FM who the hell
> > needs either one of them? Times change, all things must
> pass
> > even radio stations along with station management without
> a
> > brain or a clue as to how to sell the damn format. You
> > people have too much time on your hands!
>
>
> Allison for nearly 30 years I have worked in the broadcast
> industry. I have two daughter in college and a typical
> middle class lifestyle. The reason I spend time debating
> this issue is that Broadcasting sin't just a hobby with me.
> It's how I earn my living. As far as the I-Pod is concerend,
> I have a 40 Gig I-pod with over 3,500 songs on it. An I-pod
> is just another form of recording device. It isn't a
> replacement for the radio.
> >
> > Heaven! I'm in Heaven! And my heart beats so that I can
> > hardly speak. And I seem to find the happiness I seek when
>
> > I'm out together with my sweetheart and my I-Pod dancing
> > cheek to cheek! lol lol lol lol... Another great song but
> > you people most likely don't have a clue as to even
> recorded
> > the song, with all your closed minds that limit your
> ability
> > to enjoy the wonderful songs of the past because they
> don't
> > fit into some Ad agency or media buyers idea of what will
> > sell some wonderful soap companies products. I suppose if
> it
> > were left up to these media buyer types all the music ever
>
> > recorded would just be dumped into a great big dumpster
> > never to be heard again once it became over twenty years
> > old! A Sad Sad state of affairs! Your children will be
> > poorer as a result of never hearing such wonderful music.
> >
> My music collection goes back to Brown Wax cylinders from
> the 1800's and both 2 minute and 2/4 cylindar machines. When
> it comes to music my children have been exposed to, and
> there's no way for me to prove it to you but you have no
> idea who you are talking to. I have litterally thousands of
> recordings including a mint original Elvis's That's all
> right on a Sun 45 RPM. I have for years supplied music to
> one of the large national broadcsat networks. I have been
> collecting seriously for 45 years. Trust me, you have no
> idea.
>
You are the exception rather than the rule! I salute you for your collecting ability and your wonderful collection of great music dating back to the beginnings of recorded sound and music! But what about the other 294 million people in this country? They don't have a clue! Which was my point to begin with! I'm glad your daughters have been exposed to all that wonderful music but do they have any appreciation for what talent it took to create all this music? It is easy to see that you do but if left up to some in this industry it all would end up in a great big dumpster to be forgotten forever and that would be a sad state of affairs.
 
Re: RE: JACK is the problem

> >
> You are the exception rather than the rule! I salute you for
> your collecting ability and your wonderful collection of
> great music dating back to the beginnings of recorded sound
> and music! But what about the other 294 million people in
> this country? They don't have a clue! Which was my point to
> begin with! I'm glad your daughters have been exposed to all
> that wonderful music but do they have any appreciation for
> what talent it took to create all this music? It is easy to
> see that you do but if left up to some in this industry it
> all would end up in a great big dumpster to be forgotten
> forever and that would be a sad state of affairs.
>
Absolutetly true AllisonMarie. the issue is that broadcasting is no longer run by creative types but by salesmen who have no regard for anything other than how mush money they can sqeeze out of the industry. They are people without a soul and who have no taste. They equate broadcasting with how many fake Brooklyn bridges they can pass off before someone catches up. If it were up to them we'd have no museums, No theater, no poetry, none of the finer things in life. It's the bottom line, that's all that counts. It's a pretty sad excuse for a life actually and people with those attitudes should be shunned by society not applauded or rewarded. Bill Paley had a world class art collection and felt that owning a broadcast network was a privalege and he felt the need to give back to society for all he was able to earn from those facilities. The only aspect of art that people running broadcasting today would care about is how much they could make by selling those paintings.
 
Re: RE: JACK is the problem

>
> If you knew anything about anything you'd know that movies
> studios and TV industry has been based in LA for over 50
> years. It doesn't matter the reason for it moving to LA,
> it's in LA and that's the important thing.
>
> Meanwhile LA radio has an Oldies station, Standards station,
> Country station and an FM talk station. New York has none
> of them. Same corporate owners in both places. LA radio
> might suck but NYC radio sucks more with less diversity.
>
How is it possible for one human being to be so obnoxious? NY is the corporate home of radio. Y'know, when I show the people I work with at the network here in NYC your posts they all shake their heads and not in the affirmative. You think LA radio is great, terrific. Enjoy that market and all it has to offer. I've been discussing the NY market where I live and work. Before you respond telling me I know nothing yadda yadda yadda. Do yourself a favor and don't bother unless you have something of value to add to our discourse.
 
>
> Please, enough with your silly remark. You were using those
> artists as a way of
> relating the type of music that doesn't sell in NY radio,
> yet you bring up Bonnevilles as real New York artists. Who
> are you trying to kid? How many CD's did the Bonnevilles
> sell last year? How about in the last 40 years? How many
> stations are playing the Bonnevilles? Talk about an artist
> that "doesn't sell in NY radio"
>
> Physician heal thyself is a saying like look in the mirror,
> with the same meaning. I guess that went over your head.
>
I try not to dislike someone who spells G-d with a hyphon especially around the holidays but you make it very difficult. The point I was trying to make is that there was NY music which would have no meaning anywhere else in the country. I'm through trying to make you understand and debating with you.It's not worth my effort.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom