You mean like WXBK?
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It's not just KRTH, and not just Los Angeles.
- Thread starter michael hagerty
- Start date
You mean like WXBK?
Sure, why not. Do you know what they're billing with that format, big guy? Are they making their nut or not? If not, why after two years hasn't 94.7 been flipped to a WCBS simulcast? (Before you say the signal can't cover Long Island or Westchester or Fairfield County well enough, I'll bet there's an Class B FM signal on Long Island that would LMA to Audacy in exchange for a monthly rent check and next-to-no operating expenses.)
But this being the L.A. Board and you being TheBigA (not to be confused with a big A), why don't you tell us what non-KNX-simulcast format would have found a successful hole in that market?
As far as I can see, there are only 2 Class B FMs on Long Island other than one that is licensed to LI but is on the ESB, and both are significant billers
Neither Cox nor Connoisseur are going to lease the biggest part of 3 and 5 station clusters to a competitor.
Any format initiated in LA on a full or full-er signal FMn is necessarily going to fragment existing station, likely being hard to research and harder to guarantee. Obvious uses of a fuller signal would be to upgrade one of the successful Class A FM combos, like KRCD or KBUE.
What we know is that the NY cluster is billing over $110 million, based on what's been publicly announced on BIA. So they have room in the budget for something different. The LA cluster is billing less, and already has a project station with KROQ.
I was personally rooting for some kind of sports format, but the realist in me knows that it would be a tough go, so I'm fine with the simulcast. In any case, I didn't see any chance for another music format. If they couldn't find a hole for CHR, there's no other genre with consensus music. They'd be better off selling one of their frequencies. Emmis may have had the right idea years ago that it's better to LMA to someone else, let them take the risk, and you get paid a regular check every month.
Extremely interesting article about John Sebastian and the programming at KOAI in Phoenix ! My sister lives in Scottsdale and says that the Phoenix valley is attracting huge numbers of boomers who retire there from the cold and snow of the northeast/midwest. Lots of attendance at MLB spring training games. Some giant Sun City type senior communities exist, with more being built out by Queen's Creek and Casa Grande.There are 16,000 radio stations in the US. Lots of different ways to do things. Stations get revenue in different ways, or have different priorities. Plus there are 4195 non-commercial radio stations that don't care about advertisers. They get operating funding from listeners. In that case, it's the listeners that produce the revenue. So stations like KCSN or KPCC don't care about the age of their listeners.
In commercial stations, advertisers produce revenue. The advertisers want to reach specific groups of people, and radio helps them do that. There are advertisers that want to reach over 55, and you can hear them on KFI and KNX. Those advertisers feel their messages are more effective on talk radio rather than music radio.
In the case of KRTH, my take is they want a broad range of listeners. It's not that they're "afraid" of over 55. But too many of one group will shift the balance. KOAI is actually targeting over 55. They PD there says they're an untapped market. This article is from 2019:
Why Sebastian Believes in His New Format. - Radio Ink
When was the last time a new format came along, stuck around and made money for managers across the country? Is it really possible to come up with a brand new format these days? One that actually generates advertiser interest? John Sebastian says yes, yes indeed.radioink.com
He's been doing this format in Phoenix for several years, and so far, it's done well in the ratings, but it hasn't accomplished the revenue goals he had hoped for. But the station owner gets enough money from his other stations in the market to fund this un-staffed oldies jukebox. KRTH listeners expect the station to have local hosts, and for that, they need more money.
I can't find the statistic right now, but when I worked for the Census Bureau, I was told that every day, 10,000 boomers turn 65 years old, which is retirement age for many people. That will continue to happen until 2029. ( Census Bureau defines boomers as being born between 1946 and 1964).
Big A, thanks for sending along this article. - Daryl
It doesn't matter. The target audience for the music KOAI plays is shuffling off this mortal coil at a rate that increases with each passing year. Some of the songs will live on as what future generations will probably call "standards." Others will be forgotten, like the hundreds upon hundreds of ditties that Irvin Berlin wrote that weren't "God Bless America" or any of the other half dozen or so musical trifles that nonagenarians still hum. KOAI is being kept afloat by the billing of its owner's other stations. If the radio advertising market continues its apparent death spiral and negatively impacts the other stations, that owner will be forced to flip KOAI to some other format that will bill better than oldies.
I like the music of my youth as much as anyone else, but I just don't get the arguments here for extending the radio shelf life of Elvis, the Supremes, the Four Seasons, Buddy Holly or the Dave Clark Five as if old pop songs are a sacred trust that needs preserving for future generations. Honest, the music wasn't that significant. It was just fun.
Most of the growth in the Phoenix MSA is not seniors, although it used to be thought of that way.
Casa Grande (which is not in the Phoenix metro) and a number of other areas are attractive to retirees, but Phoenix is now home for the country's largest (in enrollment) university and lots and lots of server farms; Phoenix is one of the few areas safe from quakes, forest fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes and other natural disasters so it is attracting lots of tech installations. There are somewhere around $30 billion in fabs being built there, too.
As a percentage of population, those over 65 are at a lower number than they have been in 50 years.
Rising costs of housing have slowed down the retirement community growth except for places like Fountain Hills where you can find a nice place in the low 7 figures.
Here's the demographics map from the Census. The state with the highest percentage of seniors is (surprise) Florida, with 21.1%
Arizona is showing 18.3%, one of states in the group with the second highest percentage of seniors. That's all of AZ, not just the Phoenix metro area. I agree that with the burgeoning tech sector, many younger people are moving in. Maricopa Co. is ( IIRC), the fastest growing county in the USA. About 100 square miles of Maricopa Co. is under construction. Housing prices used to be kind of flat, but they are quickly rising. Yes, Fountain Hills is expensive. But it's still possible to find a house at Del Webb Anthem or Del Webb Sun City in Glendale that is under a million.
I don't think that Sebastian will have a huge money-maker with KAOI But I do admire him for trying.
The Population 65 Years and Older: 2021
View characteristics about the population 65 and older for each state in 2021, including median age, veteran status, labor force participation, and more.
www.census.gov
This topic veers off into the field of songwriters and songs as sociological and cultural phenomena. We were asked not to discuss that, as it is not related to broadcasting. And it is a huge, wide-ranging topic. Let me just opine that the music and artists of the 60's and 70's, especially in the country and rock genres, was the catalyst for a generation of leaders devoted to social betterment and meaningful change around the world. So, I think the music is well worth preserving. Yes, there were bubble gum songs; but there were also many works with profound meaning and implications for young people with a bold vision for the future. YMMV. - Daryl
I'm sure I could go through a painstaking process and eventually find the answer but if you please, what Long Island licensed station is on the Empire State Building?
WKTU is technically licensed to Lake Success, but its transmitter has been in Manhattan (first on Chrysler, then WTC, then ESB) since 1965.
And apparently my memory was faulty. I thought both WCTO and WKJY were B's.
With Cox, yes, agree. With Connoisseur, I don't know. They might be open to an offer they can't refuse. (Was it Paley or Sarnoff who coined that expression?)
Connoisseur stations dominate its wealthy coverage area (Long Island and Connecticut's Gold Coast). Why would they be sellers? The only misstep they've made was when they tried to turn WDRC-FM Hartford (which they bought from Buckley, which was getting out of radio entirely) into a clone of WPLR New Haven, including sharing a morning show. A mistake that was quickly rectified by selling WDRC to Full Power/Red Wolf.
Thank you, I knew that one but just didn't know where Lake Success was.
It's about 15 miles due east of the Empire State Building on Long Island.
Empire State Building to Lake Success
You'll need to zoom in, but there is an actual Lake Success---so small it fits between two expressways that are less than a mile apart.
I would have answered the question by saying the music sounds so bad no one that age would like it.
Billy Joel, Huey Lewis and Roy Orbison don't count.
I heard this about a DJ on WEZV, soft AC in Myrtle Beach SC. A woman in her 60s (who sounded younger) was the midday DJ and she did something called "Lunch Bunch" where she and listeners ate lunch in a restaurant. She posted on Facebook and her boss got upset about seeing old people in the photos. Now when they dumped standards I heard a lot of people had gone over to an oldies station, but maybe not everyone left.
The DJ was let go when the owner decided to switch the co-owned Hot AC to talk and a popular younger female DJ from that station needed to be put somewhere. Eventually, the soft AC started playing the music the Hot AC had been playing, but after a year and a half of that it was back to the soft music (well, except for "Danger Zone" and a few other tunes). Not sure how the people in charge felt about the possibility the old people were back.
Good Time Oldies still has disco!
I don't get why anyone wants to get rid of them, and they are still on an actual radio station near where I live. Not that near, but I can drive to where the signal is good enough.
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