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July Ratings Boston
- Thread starter Mattcatlover456
- Start date
katzradio said:you would think they would get "leaked" somehow...after all, nothing is private on the 'net.
You would be wrong about that. Arbitron goes after copyright infringement (and that's what those "leaks" would be) quite zealously. Just ask the owners of this board how many times they've been warned to take down posts with ratings info (other than 6+ or 12+, 6AM-12M) in them.
freqlost said:
The Bruins bowed out on June 24. Can a drop that big be explained by at fewer than seven days of no Bruins coverage.
And Arbitron can not have a copyright on facts. They might sue companies for copyright infringement for releasing the numbers, but they wouldn't win if it went to court. They hit people using breach of contract, unfair business practices.
Fenway1912 said:
how long until he ends up at hot 96.9?
Why did he leave Jamn?
dyeingeye said:
They do not copyright facts, since their ratings are not "facts" in a legal sense because their methodologies are subject to statistical variations. They are compilations of data gathered by them using copyrighted methodologies, and their web sites have a rather lengthy listing of the methods, limitations and lawful "fair use" of their data.
They sue companies all the time (on average, about six per year), and the companies invariably scramble to settle the cases quickly. They wouldn't do that if they thought they could prevail in court.
This article from a communications lawyer lays it all out: http://www.radioink.com/Article.asp?id=2657962
http://lists.bostonradio.org/pipermail/boston-radio-interest
Check out the discussion started by Donna, wondering why Boston's #1 station is now a country one.
*
>>Country Hit Radio is the new HipHop for young girls. The all age Arbitron category has always been owned by very young women...Today's hit country flavor is all aimed right at them. From Taylor Swift to all the good looking young guys now in Country. This is also what is hurting Jamn more than Amp or Hot. The number of young women that have shifted to country. No longer is it a working class mans format.
Other reasons are given including the economy, the loss of WODS (and perhaps disillusionment with
WROR's Mr. Otto Mation as your DJ; why not a station with, horrors, personalities?)
Jason Aldean selling out Fenway is mentioned. For that matter Kenny Chesney concerts at
Gillette were also instant sellouts.
* per TOS.
Check out the discussion started by Donna, wondering why Boston's #1 station is now a country one.
*
>>Country Hit Radio is the new HipHop for young girls. The all age Arbitron category has always been owned by very young women...Today's hit country flavor is all aimed right at them. From Taylor Swift to all the good looking young guys now in Country. This is also what is hurting Jamn more than Amp or Hot. The number of young women that have shifted to country. No longer is it a working class mans format.
Other reasons are given including the economy, the loss of WODS (and perhaps disillusionment with
WROR's Mr. Otto Mation as your DJ; why not a station with, horrors, personalities?)
Jason Aldean selling out Fenway is mentioned. For that matter Kenny Chesney concerts at
Gillette were also instant sellouts.
* per TOS.
dumber than a box of hair said:
Did you read this part?
Both of those reasons are not clear assertions that the facts are copyrighted. They are examples of the hammer that Arbitron wields.
Or what about this part?
He makes a clear distinction between using in a business context and non-commercial use and is skeptical of whether the latter is copyright protected. The few cases I have seen always involve some use of the numbers in business.
Just because Arbitron's numbers aren't facts doesn't make it so. The non protected "facts" are that Arbitron reports that it estimates these are the number of people listening. Every survey or poll is an estimate from underlying data. It doesn't make the resulting data not facts that somebody has reported.
Parsed just like a lawyer and ignorant of reality. I can read just fine and I stand by my analysis.
Go ahead, spin it any way you want. The only fact here is that you have no idea if Arbitron would prevail in a copyright infringement suit (and neither do I or anyone else).
Go ahead, spin it any way you want. The only fact here is that you have no idea if Arbitron would prevail in a copyright infringement suit (and neither do I or anyone else).
dumber than a box of hair said:
According to the Association of Trial Lawyers of America, in a research study completed this past April, less than 2% of all civil suits go to trial.
Prevailing in a civil trial doesn't matter because it almost NEVER HAPPENS. What matters is what a civil settlement would look like. When you look at all of the cases that Arbitron has brought that have been settled, you know that everyone's paying for their missteps.
If Arbitron sues you, you're paying.
reelyreal said:
That 2% figure is wildly misleading. It counts all the cranks, the pro se plaintiffs, the plaintiffs who run out of money, the lawyers who abandon cases, cases brought just so an insurance company will settle, cases that go to arbitration, etc.
The Arbitron cases settle most likely because the figures are being used for commercial use, which could be protected trade secrets under state law and trademark infringement. There are other theories of recovery that are more plausible than the copyright infringement claim that Arbitron loves to trumpet.
dumber than a box of hair said:
So you cite the lawyer as some proof that the copyright claim is valid, but then dismiss his clear misgivings?
And if you don't know if Arbitron would prevail in a copyright infringement case, stop claiming that their figures are protected by copyright.
Back to the original topic of this thread:
WKLB-102.5 has promoted the fact that they've become the first country-music station in Boston history to rank #1 (presumably in overall listeners):
http://www.wklb.com/thankyou1.aspx .
Of course, country in Boston had "hopped all over the FM dial" over the past two decades.
The move to 102.5 (with a strong signal in Boston's southern suburbs; which sent WCRB over to WKLB's former spot at 99.5) has certainly been a major factor----possibly the major factor----in 'KLB's big rise in the ratings over the last few years.
In fact, if WKLB were still at 99.5 (the signal of which isn't that good south of Boston), I dare say that the station would not be any higher than sixth or seventh in the market in terms of overall audience.
WKLB-102.5 has promoted the fact that they've become the first country-music station in Boston history to rank #1 (presumably in overall listeners):
http://www.wklb.com/thankyou1.aspx .
Of course, country in Boston had "hopped all over the FM dial" over the past two decades.
The move to 102.5 (with a strong signal in Boston's southern suburbs; which sent WCRB over to WKLB's former spot at 99.5) has certainly been a major factor----possibly the major factor----in 'KLB's big rise in the ratings over the last few years.
In fact, if WKLB were still at 99.5 (the signal of which isn't that good south of Boston), I dare say that the station would not be any higher than sixth or seventh in the market in terms of overall audience.
"Overnights (12A-6A) is an unrated daypart, so you will never see numbers for that as they do not exist. As for specific dayparts, you'd have to be a subscriber to see those."
Not true. Arbitron has been measuring this daypart for over 20 years. Anyone with ratings software capable of pulling out any other daypart can get this info as well.
Regarding Arbitron's lawsuit and Saga's counter-suit.... I think Saga is on shaky ground. True the number of listeners to any station or other facts are not subject to copyright. However, you have to use information already available or in the public domain. If you go around and count listeners yourself and determine a certain station is #1 you can use that information to sell with. If you use Arbitron's proprietary data to make that claim you're violating copyright.
Finally, why is everyone so "shocked" that WKLB is doing so well in the ratings. Country has been a contender in virtually every Northeast U.S. market that's had a country market for years. The format is successful in Portland, Providence, Hartford, Albany, Allentown-Easton-Bethlehem, Atlantic City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington to name a few, so why not Boston?
Not true. Arbitron has been measuring this daypart for over 20 years. Anyone with ratings software capable of pulling out any other daypart can get this info as well.
Regarding Arbitron's lawsuit and Saga's counter-suit.... I think Saga is on shaky ground. True the number of listeners to any station or other facts are not subject to copyright. However, you have to use information already available or in the public domain. If you go around and count listeners yourself and determine a certain station is #1 you can use that information to sell with. If you use Arbitron's proprietary data to make that claim you're violating copyright.
Finally, why is everyone so "shocked" that WKLB is doing so well in the ratings. Country has been a contender in virtually every Northeast U.S. market that's had a country market for years. The format is successful in Portland, Providence, Hartford, Albany, Allentown-Easton-Bethlehem, Atlantic City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington to name a few, so why not Boston?
dyeingeye said:
I've made no such claim. Arbitron has.
Joseph_Gallant said:
By the same token......it could also be argued that if WKLB had stayed at 99.5.......there's a good chance that New Bedford's 98.1 would have been capable of ranking #1 in the Providence survey. However, 102.5's signal presence in the South Shore, the South Coast, and most of Rholde Island makes that impossible now.
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