A 2.8 in the Holiday PPMs. "But that's just 6+...."
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K-G-Oh my gawd!
- Thread starter NoMoreLurking
- Start date
Normally this is where I would say "It's the holiday book, it's fluky and meaningless," and they'll likely cite that as part of their excuses. But that kind of a crash? Someone at Cumulus must have gotten torn a new one today...
TheMusicMan said:
I hope so.
Cumulus, like all the conglomerates know the price of everything and the value of nothing. They inherited one hell of a radio station. KGO's heritage and popularity alone were the simplest reasons not to mess with it.
But some people just don't get it.........the overall 2.8 who still listen to the 50,000 watt steaming pile of s(BEEP!)t on 810 kHz still don't.
Sorry. I miss Ray Taliaferro. He was my beacon in the middle of the night on those LONG weekly drives from Bellingham, WA down to Ellensburg.
Say what you will about him, but I'll bet you'd rather hear him than the new crap on KGO.
And I tried to be open minded. Give this "new' KGO a chance. I tried. But I don't like it either. Ray had something to say. He didn't just recite the latest headlines. And he spoke to folks like me.
Ray Taliaferro was just COOL. I loved how he kicked the asses of those smartass yay-hoos who DARE trifle in the face of the sheer unadulterated TRUTH, but also his poetry nights and his occasional jazz selections. They made otherwise unpleasant nights MUCH sweeter......
On the "new" KGO. I just hear robots.
That's all.
I miss all of them- Ray, Gene Burns, John Rothman, Gil Gross, and even Lloyd Lindsay Young the weatherman. That station had a personality unlike anything else in the Bay Area, and now like Bongwater says- it's just robots.
OK, I know the ratings were slipping over the years with PPM and thus managment had to do something. That part I get...a few tweeks here, a few tweeks there, and see what happens. Sure, some listeners would come and go, but the core would always be there. But to blow the whole thing up could only serve to destroy the solid foundation of a deep loyal listener base that KGO developed over many years. Anyone with an insight into to the business and the culture of the MARKET would understand that.
Cumulus, which I'm sure has some well-educated business people working for them, is frankly acting like nothing more than a bunch of short-sighted bean counters who are just playing odds like someone playing a slot machine. You might take a chance and hit the jackpot, but chances are you're going to wind up losing everything.
It's too bad that's what business has become to many companies like Cumulus these days. As a businessman myself, I understand that sometimes tough decisions have to be made for a greater and longer-term benefit. But I also understand that you have to have a better product than the next company to truly be successful. KGO used to be that company, but is now just another 'me too' news station with no depth or dimension.
OK, I know the ratings were slipping over the years with PPM and thus managment had to do something. That part I get...a few tweeks here, a few tweeks there, and see what happens. Sure, some listeners would come and go, but the core would always be there. But to blow the whole thing up could only serve to destroy the solid foundation of a deep loyal listener base that KGO developed over many years. Anyone with an insight into to the business and the culture of the MARKET would understand that.
Cumulus, which I'm sure has some well-educated business people working for them, is frankly acting like nothing more than a bunch of short-sighted bean counters who are just playing odds like someone playing a slot machine. You might take a chance and hit the jackpot, but chances are you're going to wind up losing everything.
It's too bad that's what business has become to many companies like Cumulus these days. As a businessman myself, I understand that sometimes tough decisions have to be made for a greater and longer-term benefit. But I also understand that you have to have a better product than the next company to truly be successful. KGO used to be that company, but is now just another 'me too' news station with no depth or dimension.
NoMoreLurking said:
2.8 to 1.4 in 25-54, ranking them at 24th.
People used to like the holiday cookie contest, tips on turkeys and gift giving, gift cards, returns, etc.. People going on shopping trips would listen. Some of the fill-in host would do some pretty good stuff of holiday topics relating to family, freinds, and assorted touchy feely topics.
So is this what cummulus wants? They can just bring in the syndicrap and get the same ratings.
So is this what cummulus wants? They can just bring in the syndicrap and get the same ratings.
As much as I like the thought of some morons at Cumulus getting their collective asses wupped over this, I have my doubts they care. Cumulus cut their costs substantially, even if they lose listeners, and hence have to lower their ad rates, I bet they're still coming out way ahead.
I'm sure they're now selling ads across all of their stations too, so they may not be losing that much in revenue. If an advertiser comes to them and says they want 20% reach into under 30s, 50% into 30-50, and the rest in over 50, Cumulus can air the ad over multiple stations to ensure the customer gets the reach they want. That's a big advantage to the customer since they don't have to deal with multiple stations. For us listeners it sucks rocks, as we've seen. The Cumulus asshats don't give a flying f--k about putting out a good product, community relations, or even ratings (to a point). All they care about is selling the most ads for the most money while keeping costs as low as possible, and that's what they're doing.
I'm sure they're now selling ads across all of their stations too, so they may not be losing that much in revenue. If an advertiser comes to them and says they want 20% reach into under 30s, 50% into 30-50, and the rest in over 50, Cumulus can air the ad over multiple stations to ensure the customer gets the reach they want. That's a big advantage to the customer since they don't have to deal with multiple stations. For us listeners it sucks rocks, as we've seen. The Cumulus asshats don't give a flying f--k about putting out a good product, community relations, or even ratings (to a point). All they care about is selling the most ads for the most money while keeping costs as low as possible, and that's what they're doing.
kirksan said:
The first criteria for agency buys is cost per point. As in "200 weekly Grips against 25-54." GRPs can only be derived from rating, and not cume. Once the agency finds stations that will meet the market Grip goal, then they may run reach and frequency to get the best balance across 25-34, 35-44 and 45-54 as well as gender goals and ethnic goals.
No buy I've ever seen goes for "reach" against "50+" Essentially no buys go for 55+ at all, anyway... and that is part of the reasons for the KGO changes.
Of course, not all buys are against the broad 25-54. Some are against subsets, some are against 18-49 (like TV) and some are 18-34 or very specific goals like Assimilated Hispanic Females 25-44.
The new KGO sucks dead donkey dick$. I really dislike it. Especially at my bedtime which can be from 7:30 PM to 11:30 PM. I don't even check it anymore at that time. Often I'd wake up and listen to Ray. I LOVED his show. I loved to listen to him on my drives to Southern California. I used to record his show on cassette. I even bought one of those CCrane Versacorders specifically for his show. Now if I'm awake during his old time slot I check out brown eye radio. It's not very good. Better than the all news junk, but still it's double ungood. I end up shutting it off rather than leaving it on all night like I used to with Ray.Bongwater said:
Steven Roy said:NoMoreLurking said:
Together we can all say a great big collective "I TOLD YOU SO!" :
I hope we're all correct. I'm not in the business, but I'd think it's too early to say. Don't they need to give new listeners time to discover the new KGO? Shouldn't they wait at least 6 months to determine for sure if it's not working? Well, in this case, it's so obvious that maybe you don't need 6 months. But is that the way it's usually done in radio? After just 7 weeks, they say the changes failed to produce good results? Don't these things usually take a long time? You can remodel a dirty grocery store and after 7 weeks, there might not be an increase in sales. But after a year, maybe it will double even though nothing changed but the decor.
chris319 said:
Do you think that Cumulus would purposely make a substantial programming change if they didn't believe it would improve their bottom line? Companies, especially publicly traded ones, are in the business of improving their income, not throwing it away. People keep saying that Cumulus management is stupid, but people don't get to become managers responsible for millions of dollars of investment by being stupid. They get there because the know how to generate income.
As for me I've always held the position of wait and see. While I think that Cumulus made some really stupid moves in blasting away the old guard, moves that alienated listeners including those they may actually want to have, looking beyond that mis-step it may be that Cumulus made the right decision overall. I'd say give it 4 or 5 months before we'll have a more accurate picture.
As for me I've moved over to KKSF 910 for the most part, but KGO wouldn't care about me anyway.
They won't move the needle in 4-5 months. It has historically taken 4-5 YEARS to build a successful news station, which is what they now are weekdays, save for 9-12n and overnights. It remains to be seen if Cumulus has the patience and will spend the money to grow the new format over a period of years. An example of this is what Randy Michaels is trying in NY and Chicago with a couple FMs. So far, they have dropped like a rock in the ratings, and stayed there...and haven't gotten into CBS's drawers at all really. CBS kind of invented the wheel in news radio- the clocks in this format are commonly called the 'news wheel' by folks in the spoken word business.
If I am looking at it right, KCBS didn't crack the top 5 in the last book. Let's see what the next round reveals.
I'll agree, I liked Ray, but not necessarily what he said, but it was good radio.
KGO needs a makeover, but what they are currently offering, won't cut the mustard. Even if Cumulus is substantially reducing costs, something will have to give to make KGO a mainstay in the SF market. Maybe time to cut loose the powers that be, and start anew, once again. My thoughts, and your mileage may vary.
I'll agree, I liked Ray, but not necessarily what he said, but it was good radio.
KGO needs a makeover, but what they are currently offering, won't cut the mustard. Even if Cumulus is substantially reducing costs, something will have to give to make KGO a mainstay in the SF market. Maybe time to cut loose the powers that be, and start anew, once again. My thoughts, and your mileage may vary.
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