K-Rock's ship still doomed to sink with O&A on board

[Brooklyndon]

Well, I live on the (Y)upper east side, low 80's near Central Park. The sort of people you are referring to are my neighbors and family. unless they have either bought into an apartment years ago or are renters protected by some form of rent control, these folks do not have as much disposable income as you seem to think.

The priorities in this neighborhood are: Housing costs, Food (much more expensive here again due to high commercial rents) Fine clothing, (necessary for work) Health club memberships (often these are social as much as fitness) and cars. What is left over is often dissapated at bars such as Mad River, Wicker Park and Dorians. Yes, some of these people do like rock, but they also go fad-to-fad I don't know that you can build a station catering solely to them.

Well, I live on the (Y)upper east side, low 80's near Central Park. The sort of people you are referring to are my neighbors and family. unless they have either bought into an apartment years ago or are renters protected by some form of rent control, these folks do not have as much disposable income as you seem to think.

Upper-east siders might not, but under 30 brokers living downtown and in Brooklyn do. Add that to the fact suburban people are paying $100+ a week to gas up, and you may even have greater disposable income in the city.

The priorities in this neighborhood are: Housing costs, Food (much more expensive here again due to high commercial rents) Fine clothing, (necessary for work) Health club memberships (often these are social as much as fitness) and cars. What is left over is often dissapated at bars such as Mad River, Wicker Park and Dorians. Yes, some of these people do like rock, but they also go fad-to-fad I don't know that you can build a station catering solely to them.

Great! You mean as an advertiser I can reach a demo that buys expensive food (whole foods), I can pitch my housing developments to, or my $3650/year health club? I can reach a group who has this factored into their overhead??? Sign me up!

As for radio, many have gone to non commercial outlets such as WFUV and WNYC, the latter has an operating budget that is millions of dollars higher than most commercial station's billings. I'am one of these listeners and I doubt that there is anything that commercial radio could do that would cause me to tolerate their dumb talk shows, tight playlists and interminable stopsets.

Years ago WNEW tried to market itself as a "sophisticated" rock station and when I was at NYU in the mid-seventies 'NEW and it's artrock approach was at it's peak of popularity but it never had much in terms of ratings.

Don't be too dismissive of the "poor' hvac repairman, all of these tradespeople are major connivers, all them do a significant portion of their work off the books and many of their wives and offspring work as well.

Billy and Mary Sixpack are not "sophisticated' but they spend and are more easily influenced by advertising imagery.

Regards, Lino

Well I can't speak to any of that because it happened 30 years ago before I was born. But popularity is important, especially given they way terrestrial radio is being crowded out of the market and ratings are falling across the industry. Radio's core business, being a progressive marketing tool for record companies is what it should stick to, because everyone from the Upper East Side Lawyers to Stapleton Artists need to buy music from ITunes every once in a while.

 

[Caveman]

Stern still steals from O&A on a weekly basis.

This thread has nothing to do with Stern, if you think Stern steals from O&A, then start a new thread about it. This thread is about why sticking with O&A was a huge mistake for K-ROCK for three reasons:

K-ROCK NEEDS TO BUILD A BRAND FOR THE RICH FINANCE SET living in Brooklyn/Manhattan with no overhead and thousands in disposable income, not poor hvac repairmen paying $3.50 a gallon to commute from Redbank with all his remaining income tied up in his kids.

O&A AND THEIR ASSOCIATED IMAGING ARE A HUGE MISTAKE FOR K-ROCK!!! There is an emerging yuppie generation now that Gen-Y is mid to late twenties and, the educated ones with money, listen to a broader spectrum than just grunge and novogrunge. But again, its CBS radio and apparently they have no concept of strategic thinking for the long haul.

O&A ARE A HUGE RISK, THEY'VE BEEN FIRED TWICE NOW!

You have no clue what HVAC repairmen make...especially when they are in the union....I'm a licensed trader and our HVAC guy at my JP MORGAN branch has a nicer car and Harley than I do.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Stern still steals from O&A on a weekly basis.

This thread has nothing to do with Stern, if you think Stern steals from O&A, then start a new thread about it. This thread is about why sticking with O&A was a huge mistake for K-ROCK for three reasons:

K-ROCK NEEDS TO BUILD A BRAND FOR THE RICH FINANCE SET living in Brooklyn/Manhattan with no overhead and thousands in disposable income, not poor hvac repairmen paying $3.50 a gallon to commute from Redbank with all his remaining income tied up in his kids.

O&A AND THEIR ASSOCIATED IMAGING ARE A HUGE MISTAKE FOR K-ROCK!!! There is an emerging yuppie generation now that Gen-Y is mid to late twenties and, the educated ones with money, listen to a broader spectrum than just grunge and novogrunge. But again, its CBS radio and apparently they have no concept of strategic thinking for the long haul.

O&A ARE A HUGE RISK, THEY'VE BEEN FIRED TWICE NOW!

You have no clue what HVAC repairmen make...especially when they are in the union....I'm a licensed trader and our HVAC guy at my JP MORGAN branch has a nicer car and Harley than I do.

We both know that statement is horrible misrepresentation of the truth. In fact if you check your website, http://www.cavemanradio.com/index2.html we can see it's an outright lie.


By the way, JP Morgan Chase is an investment bank, it doesn't have branches it has satellite offices.

Why would you lie for O&A?

O&A target a demo much like yourself. Now I just don't understand how that is a desirable demo.


By the way, according to http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

the average experience HVAC repairman makes between $44 a year, about $10 grand less than an entry level back office analyst at any investment bank makes $53 a year. http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

Thank you for making K-Rock's mistake even clearer

 

[Starscream]

Brooklyndom?

HVac workers have time to listen to the radio, especially on their commutes into the city. HVAC workers spend a good portion of on-the-job time in the car.

Financial workers are usually too busy doing research before the opening bell to listen to O&A. They are usually watching CNBC or other things than spending TSL on K-Rock. You do realize that people who work in those positions usually report a very low level of job satisfaction because of how overworked they are?

 

[TheGreenskeeper]

Well, I have to disagree with you Brooklyndon. I think O&A are a good fit for Rock n'Roll. One of us is wrong, time will tell.

 

[Starscream]

And as previously reported in this thread, "sophisticated" people will either 1) listen to their own music on Ipods or 2) be listening to Satellite Radio with a wider music choice and no commercials.

Secondly, Brooklyn, how hard is to believe that someone can work in radio AND also be licensed to do other things? During my time in radio, I was a licensed real estate agent, and I probably could have gotten my 6 and 29 if I wanted to.

You're using this TV cliche stereotype that financial workers are these uppercrust people like Dan Akyroyd in Trading Places or something. Newsflash: they aren't. In fact, high intelligence + big paycheck + disposable income + no kids + youth + the internet making it an easy place to get adult material = a recipe for depravity.

I also love how you're saying that O&A are a huge risk because they've been fired twice. It's not like CBS radio is completely unaware of this fact. I'm sure they are pretty well-versed in it.

 

[feeball]

I also love how you're saying that O&A are a huge risk because they've been fired twice.

The irony is that they were already fired from CBS Radio once. Of course they were known as Infinity Broadcasting back then, but it's all the same.

The only obstacle with O&A is how much of their XM audience listens to them on the FM station when they broadcast on both? The big one will come during the next book when O&A were off of XM for a month. If there is an increase in the ratings, then we will all know how many listened on FM as opposed to XM.

And if the ratings went up during the 30 days off XM, what type of power play will both radio sides use?

 

[Brooklyndon]

Brooklyndom?

HVac workers have time to listen to the radio, especially on their commutes into the city. HVAC workers spend a good portion of on-the-job time in the car.

Financial workers are usually too busy doing research before the opening bell to listen to O&A. They are usually watching CNBC or other things than spending TSL on K-Rock. You do realize that people who work in those positions usually report a very low level of job satisfaction because of how overworked they are?

What is the point of creating a station for people with no disposable income?

Sophistication is the way to go. Dump O&A, as has been established, their core already listens on XM. The current format, which has proven that it gets no ratings, once before, will continue to get no ratings, and in the of chance it does, the group it attracts won't have any money because gas is $3.50 and they bought their house during the housing bubble. They have no money.

As opposed to the city dwellers a demo that has expensive food (whole foods), overpriced housing developments, and $3650/year health club factored into their overhead??? Sign me up!


Sorry guys, educated city dwellers are the demo to target right now, and O&A, and more importantly, the stations' 24/7 imaging based around them, aren't gonna pull them in.

Thrown in FCC risk and it makes 0 sense to have them on board.

 

[Brooklyndon]

And if the ratings went up during the 30 days off XM, what type of power play will both radio sides use?

Great point, and as all the O&A fans have been saying that all their fans are on XM. I'd love to see that scenario play out.

But really, anecdotal evidence over the last two years says their was no spike in XM subscription with O&A's arrival on the service. So how many listeners do they really have, 80,000, maybe 100,000 nationally. Growing up in Boston I remember seeing WOW stickers and wow wiped out of tractor trailer dust everywhere. I used to see it in New York too when I'd visit 7 years ago. I don't see WOW stickers anymore.

 

[Brooklyndon]

In fact, high intelligence + big paycheck + disposable income + no kids + youth + the internet making it an easy place to get adult material = a recipe for depravity.

Yeah, I completely agree. But there is a significant difference between depravity (alternative) and anger (numetal) and general white-trashiness (Nickleback). Depravity intrigues people, anger causes them to turn the channel. By the way all those depraved brokers living in Jersey City, the East Village, Fort Greene, and Williamsburg listen to rock much softer (though still hard) than what you hear on K-Rock.

 

[Starscream]

And if the ratings went up during the 30 days off XM, what type of power play will both radio sides use?

Great point, and as all the O&A fans have been saying that all their fans are on XM. I'd love to see that scenario play out.

But really, anecdotal evidence over the last two years says their was no spike in XM subscription with O&A's arrival on the service. So how many listeners do they really have, 80,000, maybe 100,000 nationally. Growing up in Boston I remember seeing WOW stickers and wow wiped out of tractor trailer dust everywhere. I used to see it in New York too when I'd visit 7 years ago. I don't see WOW stickers anymore.

I have a quote from the VP of Programming on XM that O&A are the most popular show on XM. Are you calling Eric Logan a liar?

 

[Starscream]

In fact, high intelligence + big paycheck + disposable income + no kids + youth + the internet making it an easy place to get adult material = a recipe for depravity.

Yeah, I completely agree. But there is a significant difference between depravity (alternative) and anger (numetal) and general white-trashiness (Nickleback). Depravity intrigues people, anger causes them to turn the channel. By the way all those depraved brokers living in Jersey City, the East Village, Fort Greene, and Williamsburg listen to rock much softer (though still hard) than what you hear on K-Rock.

You're missing my point. O&A = depravity. Oops.

 

[Brooklyndon]

You're missing my point. O&A = depravity. Oops.

O&A equalled depravity. 10 years ago.

 

[Starscream]

You're missing my point. O&A = depravity. Oops.

O&A equalled depravity. 10 years ago.

Wow, that musta been a hardcore nighttime music show on WBAB.

 

[Caveman]

Not lying at all. JP MORGAN has "branches" in 17 states...they merged with Chase bank years ago. I was hired in Nov 2006 and licensed in Jan 2007. What is the lie? Our HVAC tech makes loot. Call the South Wilton, CT JP MORGAN/Chase branch tomorrow after 10am...ask for Caveman...much rather be able to make a living in radio....but I like eating food. As far as O&A targeting my "demo" I live in New Canaan, CT...not exactly the ghetto.

Stern still steals from O&A on a weekly basis.

This thread has nothing to do with Stern, if you think Stern steals from O&A, then start a new thread about it. This thread is about why sticking with O&A was a huge mistake for K-ROCK for three reasons:

K-ROCK NEEDS TO BUILD A BRAND FOR THE RICH FINANCE SET living in Brooklyn/Manhattan with no overhead and thousands in disposable income, not poor hvac repairmen paying $3.50 a gallon to commute from Redbank with all his remaining income tied up in his kids.

O&A AND THEIR ASSOCIATED IMAGING ARE A HUGE MISTAKE FOR K-ROCK!!! There is an emerging yuppie generation now that Gen-Y is mid to late twenties and, the educated ones with money, listen to a broader spectrum than just grunge and novogrunge. But again, its CBS radio and apparently they have no concept of strategic thinking for the long haul.

O&A ARE A HUGE RISK, THEY'VE BEEN FIRED TWICE NOW!

You have no clue what HVAC repairmen make...especially when they are in the union....I'm a licensed trader and our HVAC guy at my JP MORGAN branch has a nicer car and Harley than I do.

We both know that statement is horrible misrepresentation of the truth. In fact if you check your website, http://www.cavemanradio.com/index2.html we can see it's an outright lie.


By the way, JP Morgan Chase is an investment bank, it doesn't have branches it has satellite offices.

Why would you lie for O&A?

O&A target a demo much like yourself. Now I just don't understand how that is a desirable demo.


By the way, according to http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

the average experience HVAC repairman makes between $44 a year, about $10 grand less than an entry level back office analyst at any investment bank makes $53 a year. http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

Thank you for making K-Rock's mistake even clearer

 

[Brooklyndon]

FAair enough, maybe you do work in retail banking, and in your particular case, you are underpaid. But the numbers don't lie, on average tradesmen and cops make less than white collar workers. K-Rock should be doing all in its power to make itself attractive to the emerging class of moneyed urban yuppies, even if it means that high school drop outs have to go, and unfortunately, those high school drop outs come with the OO&A package.


As for the other one, 10 years ago O&A were on WAAF doing afternoons, not doing a night show in WBAB. O&A were perfect for the Worcester market by the way, lots of white trash out there.

 

[adma]

...much rather be able to make a living in radio....but I like eating food. As far as O&A targeting my "demo" I live in New Canaan, CT...not exactly the ghetto.

It doesn't mean (the generic) you aren't vulgar white trash. Who do you think knocks down 50s modern homes for vulgar McMansions, anyway?

 

[Walter Graff]

This sums it up in my mind, namely the line "This aution may end early"

http://cgi.ebay.com/Opie-and-Anthon...-pack-O-A_W0QQitemZ260125300928QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Walter Graff]

O&A who have no ratings in Boston, which is basically the same format as the new K-Rock. Why are they keeping these two fools as their anchor.

I am coming under the impression that this whole OA XM 'suspension' was planned and orchestrated to try to get the show listeners. The only reason they are on terrestrial in the first place is to use it as a springboard for XM to get folks to listen to the show. CBS looses nothing by having them. The suspension in my mind was nothing more than a ploy to get folks to listen to XM and namely a show XM paid far too much for that hasn't done anything for them. XM is not growing and loosing a lot of subs through churn and anything they can do to get folks to sign up is needed and since they thought OA were going to be a big part of that ticket, they haven't stopped trying. It's a no loss for CBS that gets back what was for a short time many years ago a listened to program. But that program has degraded considerably to what many on the radio review web site say is boring and unlistenable. But safe for CBS was to hire them and right now since they have nothing else, safe is to keep them until they do. Davis Lee Roth is always a gauge of how low it can go so the bar isn't that high these days.

 

[captdewey99]

And if the ratings went up during the 30 days off XM, what type of power play will both radio sides use?

Growing up in Boston I remember seeing WOW stickers and wow wiped out of tractor trailer dust everywhere. I used to see it in New York too when I'd visit 7 years ago. I don't see WOW stickers anymore.

I completely agree. I am from Boston so I can't speak for the WOWs in NY, but back when they were on AAF here, WOW was everywhere, no bumper stickers but a ton of homemade signs. Then they disappeared when they were fired and left for NY. When they made their return to BCN, you started to see the WOW stickers increase again (until they were fired again). Now, I don't see them anywhere, and the few I have seen usually are the XM bumper stickers not the local station they are on here, BCN. I don't know what happened, if they were gone for too long, or if it was the shift to mornings or what, but I can tell you that I used to be a huge fan (starting with them on AAF, then when they came to BCN afternoons), but I don't listen to them too often anymore. Frankly, there are better local shows to listen to.