K-Rock's ship still doomed to sink with O&A on board

[Caveman]

...much rather be able to make a living in radio....but I like eating food. As far as O&A targeting my "demo" I live in New Canaan, CT...not exactly the ghetto.

It doesn't mean (the generic) you aren't vulgar white trash. Who do you think knocks down 50s modern homes for vulgar McMansions, anyway?

Ummm, I'm not a newbie to NC. I grew up in New Canaan in a 250 yo converted barn and moved back to New Canaan last October. So you are mistaken.

 

[p_herring]

Not lying at all. JP MORGAN has "branches" in 17 states...they merged with Chase bank years ago. I was hired in Nov 2006 and licensed in Jan 2007. What is the lie? Our HVAC tech makes loot. Call the South Wilton, CT JP MORGAN/Chase branch tomorrow after 10am...ask for Caveman...much rather be able to make a living in radio....but I like eating food. As far as O&A targeting my "demo" I live in New Canaan, CT...not exactly the ghetto.

Stern still steals from O&A on a weekly basis.

This thread has nothing to do with Stern, if you think Stern steals from O&A, then start a new thread about it. This thread is about why sticking with O&A was a huge mistake for K-ROCK for three reasons:

K-ROCK NEEDS TO BUILD A BRAND FOR THE RICH FINANCE SET living in Brooklyn/Manhattan with no overhead and thousands in disposable income, not poor hvac repairmen paying $3.50 a gallon to commute from Redbank with all his remaining income tied up in his kids.

O&A AND THEIR ASSOCIATED IMAGING ARE A HUGE MISTAKE FOR K-ROCK!!! There is an emerging yuppie generation now that Gen-Y is mid to late twenties and, the educated ones with money, listen to a broader spectrum than just grunge and novogrunge. But again, its CBS radio and apparently they have no concept of strategic thinking for the long haul.

O&A ARE A HUGE RISK, THEY'VE BEEN FIRED TWICE NOW!

You have no clue what HVAC repairmen make...especially when they are in the union....I'm a licensed trader and our HVAC guy at my JP MORGAN branch has a nicer car and Harley than I do.

We both know that statement is horrible misrepresentation of the truth. In fact if you check your website, http://www.cavemanradio.com/index2.html we can see it's an outright lie.


By the way, JP Morgan Chase is an investment bank, it doesn't have branches it has satellite offices.

Why would you lie for O&A?

O&A target a demo much like yourself. Now I just don't understand how that is a desirable demo.


By the way, according to http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

the average experience HVAC repairman makes between $44 a year, about $10 grand less than an entry level back office analyst at any investment bank makes $53 a year. http://nytimes.salary.com/salarywiz...wordtitleselect&searchtype=1&geo=New+York,+NY

Thank you for making K-Rock's mistake even clearer

Hey, I grew up in New Canaan, CT. The man is right, it's not the ghetto at all.

 

[Starscream]

O&A who have no ratings in Boston, which is basically the same format as the new K-Rock. Why are they keeping these two fools as their anchor.

I am coming under the impression that this whole OA XM 'suspension' was planned and orchestrated to try to get the show listeners. The only reason they are on terrestrial in the first place is to use it as a springboard for XM to get folks to listen to the show. CBS looses nothing by having them. The suspension in my mind was nothing more than a ploy to get folks to listen to XM and namely a show XM paid far too much for that hasn't done anything for them. XM is not growing and loosing a lot of subs through churn and anything they can do to get folks to sign up is needed and since they thought OA were going to be a big part of that ticket, they haven't stopped trying. It's a no loss for CBS that gets back what was for a short time many years ago a listened to program. But that program has degraded considerably to what many on the radio review web site say is boring and unlistenable. But safe for CBS was to hire them and right now since they have nothing else, safe is to keep them until they do. Davis Lee Roth is always a gauge of how low it can go so the bar isn't that high these days.

Are you out of your mind? How does XM generate new listeners by taking O&A completely off the air - no reruns, no best ofs, it's completely all Ron and Fez. Plus there's been almost ZERO mention of the suspension while they've been on K-Rock. Nobody knows or cares about the XM suspension outside of O&A's current audience. What, do you say "Yeah, I want you to listen to these guys on XM - but they won't be around to June 15th."

If anything, the XM suspension was a stunt to build audience for the CBS show, NOT the other way around.

And BTW...

As for your WOW Sticker Ebay auction, that's just worthless. THE STICKERS ARE GIVEN AWAY FOR FREE. So what point are you trying to make by some loser trying to sell them?

Here's the problem which is why you don't see the WOW stickers...

1) You had to mail in for the stickers through XM. Because XM doesn't do local promotions, that's why people didn't get the stickers. A large amount of people who put stickers on their car get them from local promotions.

Back in the day, O&A did a TON of appearances. Bar nights, etc. That's how the stickers got out there. O&A don't do NEARLY the amount of appearances they do. Mainly because they're a morning show now.

2) O&A for some reason cannot promote the website to get WOW stickers on CBS. It's the same reason why a lot of the boards can't be promoted, because they have adult material on there and CBS doesn't want to give airtime to potential problems.

 

[Walter Graff]

Are you out of your mind? How does XM generate new listeners by taking O&A completely off the air - no reruns, no best ofs, it's completely all Ron and Fez. Plus there's been almost ZERO mention of the suspension while they've been on K-Rock. Nobody knows or cares about the XM suspension outside of O&A's current audience. What, do you say "Yeah, I want you to listen to these guys on XM - but they won't be around to June 15th."

If anything, the XM suspension was a stunt to build audience for the CBS show, NOT the other way around.

And BTW...

As for your WOW Sticker Ebay auction, that's just worthless. THE STICKERS ARE GIVEN AWAY FOR FREE. So what point are you trying to make by some loser trying to sell them?

Here's the problem which is why you don't see the WOW stickers...

1) You had to mail in for the stickers through XM. Because XM doesn't do local promotions, that's why people didn't get the stickers. A large amount of people who put stickers on their car get them from local promotions.

Back in the day, O&A did a TON of appearances. Bar nights, etc. That's how the stickers got out there. O&A don't do NEARLY the amount of appearances they do. Mainly because they're a morning show now.

2) O&A for some reason cannot promote the website to get WOW stickers on CBS. It's the same reason why a lot of the boards can't be promoted, because they have adult material on there and CBS doesn't want to give airtime to potential problems.

The suspension is god for both XM and CBS. XM because whatever they did must be good, so perhaps I want to listen. Good for CBS because whatever they did, it must make them like they used to be and I'll tune them in. THat's the thinking.

I was part of two stunts like this (althoug I can not say who or what) and we did a similar thing and spiked ratings for a broadcaster.

As for the Wow stickers and the ebay sale, that was the point, they are free, and not worth $1.25, nor would I think anyone would want them. It was sarcastic, saying look how far down OA are now.

OA had a good show ten years ago but it's not a show worthy of airplay now.

 

[Brooklyndon]

Here's the problem which is why you don't see the WOW stickers...

2) O&A for some reason cannot promote the website to get WOW stickers on CBS. It's the same reason why a lot of the boards can't be promoted, because they have adult material on there and CBS doesn't want to give airtime to potential problems.

it boggles my mind why K-Rock took on show that seems like a logistical nightmare so they could reach a demo earning about $10 a year less than the hipster demo.

 

[adma]

Ummm, I'm not a newbie to NC. I grew up in New Canaan in a 250 yo converted barn and moved back to New Canaan last October. So you are mistaken.

That's why I added the "generic" qualifier--i.e. it isn't about you, yourself. It just accounts for the nouveau riche who think that moving to New Canaan will make them "classy". Vulgar trash is vulgar trash, ghetto or no.

it boggles my mind why K-Rock took on show that seems like a logistical nightmare so they could reach a demo earning about $10 a year less than the hipster demo.

Because within the closed universe of radio, they really think O&A reflects a "hipster demo".

 

[LinoNYC]

it boggles my mind why K-Rock took on show that seems like a logistical nightmare so they could reach a demo earning about $10 a year less than the hipster demo.

The "hipster" or "sophisticated" listeners are mostly gone from commercial radio, they have been drifting away for years amd its a trend that will likely accelerate with all the alternatives available.

Take a look at Arbitron's 12+ rankings for NYC:

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.arbitron.com/home/ratings.htm&sa=X&oi=smap&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNEidLzY23HnHjPkGWEoX0YHKuBmoQ

-See anything remotely "sophisticated' there? The most listened to formats cater either to passive background situations (WLTW, WWFS) or the [EDIT]/ethnic demo.

Commercial radio is catering to those who actually listen most nowadays.

Take a look at the billings: (05-06)


WLTW (106.7 FM) $65.6 $59.8
WINS (1010 AM) $59.7 $60.8
WCBS-AM (880) $56.2 $56.2
WFAN (660 AM) $50.6 $52.5
WHTZ (100.3 FM) $47.3 $47.7
WPLJ (95.5 FM) $37.2 $39.7
WRKS (98.7 FM) $35.5 $39.8
WAXQ (104.3 FM) $35.1 $33.8
WKTU (103.5 FM) $34.6 $37.4
WSKQ (97.9 FM) $32.5 $37.3
WQHT (97.1 FM) $31.9 $37.2
WWPR (105.1 FM) $28.3 $24.1
WBLS (107.5 FM) $26.8 $27.0
WABC (770 AM) $23.4 $24.2
WOR (710 AM) $20.3 $21.0
WFNY (92.3 FM) $18.7 $50.8
WWFS (102.7 FM) $18.0 $15.4
WPAT-FM (93.1) $16.6 $17.2
WCBS-FM (101.1) $16.1 $23.9
WQCD (101.9 FM) $14.8 $20.1
WQXR (96.3 FM) $13.2 $15.8
WCAA (105.9 FM) $12.3 $4.3
WADO (1280 AM) $11.4 $8.1
WEPN (1050 AM) $10.3 $7.8

The lineup is different but the only "sophisticated" station there is WQXR -which survives on demos and a wealthy owner (NY Times).

By contrast non-comms nationwide have been the onlynon-ethnic sector to show growth over the last decade.

That is where the "sophisticated" listeners have gone. K-Rock might aswell do what it will, it doesn't matter , within ten years most of the commercial FM dial will be ethinc or transplants of AM news formats.

-Lino


[EDIT-offensive content]

 

[Brooklyndon]

it boggles my mind why K-Rock took on show that seems like a logistical nightmare so they could reach a demo earning about $10 a year less than the hipster demo.

Because within the closed universe of radio, they really think O&A reflects a "hipster demo".

Take a look at the billings: (05-06)

WFNY (92.3 FM) $18.7 $50.8

Yeah right. One of two things, either you have no credibility for lying about 92.3's billing in 2006, or K-Rock has no credibility for dumping a format that tripled billing. Either way, something is unbelievable.

 

[LinoNYC]

One of two things, either you have no credibility for lying about 92.3's billing in 2006

This atleast the second time in this thread that you have put your foot in it by making snap judgements and not reading.

I don't have time to go back to the other machines that have the original figures, but here is a Daily News article that gives the same facts:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/04/23/2007-04-23_winners_and_losers_in_radio_ad_revenue.html

It should have been obvious that the $50M figure was w/Stern.

Lino

 

[Brooklyndon]

One of two things, either you have no credibility for lying about 92.3's billing in 2006

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/04/23/2007-04-23_winners_and_losers_in_radio_ad_revenue.html

It should have been obvious that the $50M figure was w/Stern.

Lino

So then I guess you have no credibility.

 

[feeball]

Credibility or not, there is no chance that anyone could have tripled billed on that format. If they could have, they could probably also walk on water and cure the entire Leper colony in a matter of seconds.

 

[LinoNYC]

One of two things, either you have no credibility for lying about 92.3's billing in 2006

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/04/23/2007-04-23_winners_and_losers_in_radio_ad_revenue.html

It should have been obvious that the $50M figure was w/Stern.

Lino

So then I guess you have no credibility.

Did you bother to read the article before gassing-off?



Frankly, your "idea" of luring "sophisticated" listeners back to radio with rock, or hip-hop for that matter, is laughable.

Rock hasn't been "sophisticated" since the 1970s, it was faux sophistication at that. I suppose you could cite 80s groups such as Talking Heads and mention that you heard their music a the U.S. Open or weekends at the Hamptons but really, you heard hip hip there a few years ago too, these people are fad-ists.

Again, hopefully for the last time: Radio is catering to those who now listen.

Lino

 

[Brooklyndon]

Well from what you've said earlier in this post, K-Rock is now catering to those who listen to XM.


With wireless internet technology progressing at the pace it is, we all know radio as it exists today is dead or dying. But brands don't die. In 10 years, when 92.3 is something completely different from what we know it as now, everyone will remember the K-Rock brand. CBS could do K-Rock new york online, complete with streaming songs, downloadable songs, clickable links to advertisers, podcasts, social networking, and whatever else no one has thought of yet. K-Rock could be making money on direct spots, song sales, plus kickbacks from link clicks, banners, and direction to google. And it could all be in HD thanks to the wonder of wireless networking. In your car, at work, at home, or on the go. But the problem is any upstart can offer the same service, CBS radio has an advantage in the its 5-10 years ahead of the competitiion in establishing brand loyalty, problem is, O&A are degrading the brand with their new milqutoast, highly offensive, frightening to women and gays, brand of F- Off radio. K-Rock made the huge mistake of not only keeping them on, with their associated problems: they scare advertisers, they are unmarketable to the educated, and they carry huge FCC risk; but of adjusting their imaging in all dayparts so that any other rock fan who would tune in after that show to hear some new alternative would immediately give up on the brand.

K-Rock will have huge billing problems because of O&A.
K-Rock has huge branding problems becasue of O&A and their associated imaging.
K-Rock will have huge ratings problems because of O&A and their associated imaging.
K-Rock is setting its brand up for strategic failure when everything goes wireless streaming in the near future because of O&A and their associated imaging.

K-Rock needs to target hipsters, who are the only group in the 18-34 demo with money!

 

[adma]

Well from what you've said earlier in this post, K-Rock is now catering to those who listen to XM.


With wireless internet technology progressing at the pace it is, we all know radio as it exists today is dead or dying. But brands don't die. In 10 years, when 92.3 is something completely different from what we know it as now, everyone will remember the K-Rock brand. CBS could do K-Rock new york online, complete with streaming songs, downloadable songs, clickable links to advertisers, podcasts, social networking, and whatever else no one has thought of yet. K-Rock could be making money on direct spots, song sales, plus kickbacks from link clicks, banners, and direction to google. And it could all be in HD thanks to the wonder of wireless networking. In your car, at work, at home, or on the go. But the problem is any upstart can offer the same service, CBS radio has an advantage in the its 5-10 years ahead of the competitiion in establishing brand loyalty, problem is, O&A are degrading the brand with their new milqutoast, highly offensive, frightening to women and gays, brand of F- Off radio. K-Rock made the huge mistake of not only keeping them on, with their associated problems: they scare advertisers, they are unmarketable to the educated, and they carry huge FCC risk; but of adjusting their imaging in all dayparts so that any other rock fan who would tune in after that show to hear some new alternative would immediately give up on the brand.

K-Rock will have huge billing problems because of O&A.
K-Rock has huge branding problems becasue of O&A and their associated imaging.
K-Rock will have huge ratings problems because of O&A and their associated imaging.
K-Rock is setting its brand up for strategic failure when everything goes wireless streaming in the near future because of O&A and their associated imaging.

K-Rock needs to target hipsters, who are the only group in the 18-34 demo with money!

I think you're overestimating the degree to which (a) "everyone" will "remember" the K-Rock brand--at least to the point of reverence usually attached to, say, Musicradio WABC or WNEW in their heydays; and (b) the degree to which the concept of "K-Rock" has *ever* dovetailed into any lasting, non-suburban-wannabe concept of "hipsters".

In 10 years, K-Rock will more likely be remembered as part of a pathetic end run for FM rock radio, even if it were juvenile fun in its time. And if white (yes, white) hipsters (not suburban wannabes) view any 80s/90s commercial music radio in NYC w/reverence, it'll be of the urban sphere, not the rock sphere.

Otherwise, you'd be better off reaching further back, to WNEW; or further "left", to WFMU. Indeed, the fact that K-Rock's so avidly hitched its wagon to O+A might say more about its perhaps-terminal demographic dilemma than you realize...

 

[Brooklyndon]

K-Rock needs to target hipsters, who are the only group in the 18-34 demo with money!

In 10 years, K-Rock will more likely be remembered as part of a pathetic end run for FM rock radio, even if it were juvenile fun in its time. And if white (yes, white) hipsters (not suburban wannabes) view any 80s/90s commercial music radio in NYC w/reverence, it'll be of the urban sphere, not the rock sphere.

Indeed, the fact that K-Rock's so avidly hitched its wagon to O+A might say more about its perhaps-terminal demographic dilemma than you realize...

I'd like to see the market research that shows educated, urban, 18-34 youth won't stream music. If they are open to streaming music, then they are open to radio, it just has to be repackaged.

 

[Walter Graff]

"I'd like to see the market research that shows educated, urban, 18-34 youth won't stream music. If they are open to streaming music, then they are open to radio, it just has to be repackaged."

There is plenty of research that shows they do, just not in the package we call radio streaming. It's old-school to the young. You can't repackage something if it's perception has no value. It's sort of like trying ot convince the young that bowling is fun. The radio you and I know is not what the future generations are turning to for music.

 

[Brooklyndon]

The radio you and I know is not what the future generations are turning to for music.

Well then what are they turning to, and how can you get them back using the K-Rock brand?

 

[Walter Graff]

I don't think you can. I think we are in a time of flux when technological choices and new ways of thinking are trumping traditional methods. Until it all settles down and we find out just where people are going with entertainment and how they want to experience it there is nothing you can really do.

First off, the term "rock" is not of the current nor future generations. St. Peppers is 50 years old. Sometimes new will come on the scene and take the future generations to different places but it will not be with old fashion radio, or should I say not in its current carnation.

What studies are showing is that personalization is the key to how the newer generations listen. Traditional radio simply can't offer that. It's one of the reasons why satellite radio is growing (choice, personalization). Very simply traditional radio needs to learn that being a jukebox is not how to get folks to listen.

Radio listening whether it be at work, at home (2/5ths of all radio listening), and all other categories is down every year. Radio isn't necessarily dying because of radio by itself, just that radio has always been a formula for music and what's changing is how folks listen to that formula. The radio folks are scratching their heads because they have an old, tried and true play book, but the game has changed, and they are scrambling to figure out what to do, but still can't see over the wall, so can't do much more than they always have.

As an analogy, imagine someone invents a soda machine. It dispenses one type of soda. For years that becomes the way most folks get their soda. Then along comes technology and invents ways of distributing specific mixtures of soda, giving you various ways to get your drink. The old school guys who own all the single serving soda machines scramble to make a better soda because they can't imagine any way of doing this other than with their old-school machines. But it's not about a better soda, but about variety and customization of what you want. But they have a big infrastructure (a lot of machines all over the place) and most important an old-school way of thinking. So they try different color machines, bigger servings, and then even try other drinks, not carbonated. But they do this still based on the old school machine that gives you one of what you want and only one way. That is where radio is. While I am on the supply side for radio, I certainly would not want to be an owner of radio today as we have not seen it near bottom yet although it's heading there slowly but surely.

The answer is not in programming. It's looking at what technological trends are determining how folks listen. For instance, it's not about computers necessarily and web listening, but about how computer software allows folks to customize how they listen. It's not about Ipods, but about how Ipods offer new ways of listening that involve methods that turning on the on/off switch of a radio can't compete with. But old style radio people are not looking at that, but rather saying when they turn it on, what can we give them that we want. It's no longer as simple as that.

It's like this weekend format some stations play called [sic] "weekend shuffle". The idea is that its like listening to your Ipod. You never know what you are going to get. It's about a great varied play list to them. In simplest terms that is what an Ipod is, but that is not what an Ipod is about, but in the limited scope of what traditional jukebox radio is, that is all they can do.

In simplest terms, the switch to MetroCards from tokens is an example of how radio can't figure out how to change. Radio would tell you that the switch to MetroCards was about a new way to get on the subway. To them it was now a card rather than a token. Pretty simple. But it was so much more. It was about convenience, as in now I could carry a single card in my wallet with lots of money on it so I always can get on the subway, and about convergence as in now I could transfer to a bus on the same card, and even make purchases outside of transportation with it.

A new way of thinking is needed. Some of us are thinking that way but most of radio is not. K-Rock is about the worst move radio could make, but then again as I said they still have the old play book so you can't blame them.

 

[feeball]

I don't think you can. I think we are in a time of flux when technological choices and new ways of thinking are trumping traditional methods. Until it all settles down and we find out just where people are going with entertainment and how they want to experience it there is nothing you can really do.

First off, the term "rock" is not of the current nor future generations. St. Peppers is 50 years old. Sometimes new will come on the scene and take the future generations to different places but it will not be with old fashion radio, or should I say not in its current carnation.

What studies are showing is that personalization is the key to how the newer generations listen. Traditional radio simply can't offer that. It's one of the reasons why satellite radio is growing (choice, personalization). Very simply traditional radio needs to learn that being a jukebox is not how to get folks to listen.

Radio listening whether it be at work, at home (2/5ths of all radio listening), and all other categories is down every year. Radio isn't necessarily dying because of radio by itself, just that radio has always been a formula for music and what's changing is how folks listen to that formula. The radio folks are scratching their heads because they have an old, tried and true play book, but the game has changed, and they are scrambling to figure out what to do, but still can't see over the wall, so can't do much more than they always have.

As an analogy, imagine someone invents a soda machine. It dispenses one type of soda. For years that becomes the way most folks get their soda. Then along comes technology and invents ways of distributing specific mixtures of soda, giving you various ways to get your drink. The old school guys who own all the single serving soda machines scramble to make a better soda because they can't imagine any way of doing this other than with their old-school machines. But it's not about a better soda, but about variety and customization of what you want. But they have a big infrastructure (a lot of machines all over the place) and most important an old-school way of thinking. So they try different color machines, bigger servings, and then even try other drinks, not carbonated. But they do this still based on the old school machine that gives you one of what you want and only one way. That is where radio is. While I am on the supply side for radio, I certainly would not want to be an owner of radio today as we have not seen it near bottom yet although it's heading there slowly but surely.

The answer is not in programming. It's looking at what technological trends are determining how folks listen. For instance, it's not about computers necessarily and web listening, but about how computer software allows folks to customize how they listen. It's not about Ipods, but about how Ipods offer new ways of listening that involve methods that turning on the on/off switch of a radio can't compete with. But old style radio people are not looking at that, but rather saying when they turn it on, what can we give them that we want. It's no longer as simple as that.

It's like this weekend format some stations play called [sic] "weekend shuffle". The idea is that its like listening to your Ipod. You never know what you are going to get. It's about a great varied play list to them. In simplest terms that is what an Ipod is, but that is not what an Ipod is about, but in the limited scope of what traditional jukebox radio is, that is all they can do.

In simplest terms, the switch to MetroCards from tokens is an example of how radio can't figure out how to change. Radio would tell you that the switch to MetroCards was about a new way to get on the subway. To them it was now a card rather than a token. Pretty simple. But it was so much more. It was about convenience, as in now I could carry a single card in my wallet with lots of money on it so I always can get on the subway, and about convergence as in now I could transfer to a bus on the same card, and even make purchases outside of transportation with it.

A new way of thinking is needed. Some of us are thinking that way but most of radio is not. K-Rock is about the worst move radio could make, but then again as I said they still have the old play book so you can't blame them.

I quoted you because you make valid arguments about the condition of the current radio business. A lot of what sells a station not only has to do with what music comes out of the speakers, but it also has to do with those individuals that present the music as well. There are certain stations, formats, even media companies who would rather not deal with people that have any type of personality whatsoever. They want for the on-air personalities to get their point across in under a minute and do nothing more than read the station name, title, artist, on-air name, maybe an upcoming event, and a preview of what's next. There are listeners out there that listen to the personalities more than they listen to the music and that is where the radio business is losing out in that they don't like to cultivate talented individuals. There are stations with horrible formats but great ratings because the personalities are great at communicating with the audience. The personalities have to be more personable. The personalities have to be able to communicate to "Fred" as if they are talking face-to-face with "Fred" without using "Fred's" name. That's what's missing all over the place.

Another key thing they might want to do is be more than just a vehicle for established talent. Go out there and find some local bands, Myspace bands, etc. and give them an opportunity. People who feel jaded by the current industry might be able to have a little more respect for it if they show what made them famous when they (being radio) first dealt with music. In a way, everything old is new again.

 

[Starscream]

Here's the problem with Brooklyndon's argument...

He wants to target hipsters. Can anybody name me an advertiser featuring products that hipsters want that can afford to advertise on K-Rock? That's the catch-22.