K-Soul is gone!!!!

[Mac Black]

Everybody is not going to like every song, that's just reality. It doesn't matter if it was a #1 hit or a #30 something hit, somebody somewhere is not going to like it. Every song u like is not a #1 hit, I'm sure u like some moderately performing songs. If it fits the sound of my station & I would listen to it, I'll ask my staff & if it's a go, I'll test it on air or facebook & if it's all good, it's going in rotation. No need to wait on research. I do my own research. The national research just confirms what I'm already doing. What I'm not about to do is drive my listeners crazy playing the same burnt out songs nonstop. I know for me, if a song is getting on my nerves, I don't care if it's a hit or not, I'm changing the station. A major reason for the shortening tsls is lack of variety & burn out.

New music adds can't be researched; even when familiarity increases slightly research is meaningless as it takes many exposures to extract an emotional reaction to a song, which is the only thing that matters.

I don't know why you obsess with past chart positions. The only response that is of any significance today is the one to the question "how much do you want to hear that song on the radio today?"

Many big hits of the past in a format are no longer hits, while many lesser ones are strong songs today. Only local or localized research within a music format's partisan group can tell you that, and the results are ephemeral.

And, as it's always been, songs that annoy the airstaff have probably just begun the strongest period in their life cycle. Until you truly do some properly conducted, non-anecdotal research and see songs that score as powers for 10, 12 even 14 months do you realize that one of the failures of radio has been following record company timetables on playing and killing off songs rather than following the wishes of listeners.

And anyone whose gut feel trumps research will be headlined across the internet. Where have we seen your name?

First of all, u don't even know who I am & don't need to know who I am. This is a debate about programming strategy, not a list of personal or professional accomplishments, let's keep it that way.

Second of all, who wants to hear the same songs for 12 months? Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

The listeners will tell u what they wanna hear. We get requests all day everyday, the people know what they want. My staff is always interacting with the listeners, in the studio & in the community, they're very in the know, as am I. Like I said, my job is to be in the know.

Research is nice to have, but the station is not gonna stop & wait on it. It's a tool, it gives u an idea what the listeners are feeling. We already know what they're feeling bc we're in their circle. We keep our station fresh & current, we're not sitting around waiting for validation. It's called being proactive.

This is true, the more exposure the better. But I'm more likely to support businesses that support people I know. My stations support the community & the community supports us. We know the people & the people know us.

In a quote dated today from Coke's Hispanic Brand Manger: "...he medium doesn't matter, the message about benefits to the consumer and the core identity of the brand has to be reflected at every touchpoint. "

In other words, they are not looking for loyalty to the brand of the ad medium, but maximizing the exposure to the Coke message which is about consumer benefits and the brand itself. Note that "taste" was not mentioned, and was not in a 2000 word interview.

Effective advertising comes from a reliable source. We're a community radio station, we have loyal listeners & pull. We're much more effective than a pass thru 'exposure'.

 

[davideduardo]

First of all, u don't even know who I am & don't need to know who I am. This is a debate about programming strategy, not a list of personal or professional accomplishments, let's keep it that way.

Having an idea whether a person has any major market, competitive environment, success does lend credibility to an argument and separates the points from mere speculation.

Second of all, who wants to hear the same songs for 12 months?

Listeners? Well, at least those who are beyond adolescence. Those inside 25-54.

Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

If a song tests with top-of-the-stack "favorite" scores after 20, 30, 40 weeks, why would you want to reduce its airplay? A song that scores high favorites is one that has an enormous emotional appeal. Unfortunately, specifics forces the discussion into anecdotal experience. And while I can give many, many cases of songs that have been legitimate "powers" for 6 months or more, I can relate one case where multiple songs were powers for up to 13 months while the station moved to #1 in America's most important radio market... listeners don't go away when their favorite songs are played often.

The listeners will tell u what they wanna hear. We get requests all day everyday, the people know what they want.

No, the listeners who "call" (whether via phone or other newer technologies) are a very small subset of a station's listeners. They are seldom representative, as anyone on the air who has received a request for a song they are either playing or just played three minutes ago will tell you.

People who ask for a specific song are, if the sample were believable, telling you what songs you are not playing often enough. Or maybe they are telling you to play songs of artists they "Like" on FB and where they have been told to call radio stations to "support me/us."

I had a case, in a 30-station market, where we got no requests following a format switch... week after week, no requests. The first ratings finally appeared, and the station had a 33.5 share, about triple the closest station. Later interviews showed listeners saying, over and over, "why would I call if all the songs I wanted to hear were being played?"

My staff is always interacting with the listeners, in the studio & in the community, they're very in the know, as am I. Like I said, my job is to be in the know.

Generally, the listeners who interact with a radio station are active listeners. Again, a tiny group in the hyper-cume PPM world. If you only track such listeners, you may be annoying the bulk of the potential listener base.

Research is nice to have, but the station is not gonna stop & wait on it.

I feel you are talking about currents... which are researched via some manner of the traditional callout methodology... phone, intercept, random-sample internet invites, etc. The results are nearly instantaneous. Since a song is not researchable until it's been widely exposed to the format partisans multiple times, you can confirm the judgment call to add a song instantly once the tune is mature enough to be researched.

We already know what they're feeling bc we're in their circle. We keep our station fresh & current, we're not sitting around waiting for validation. It's called being proactive.

All but a tiny fraction of adult listeners want familiarity first, not proactive-ness.

Effective advertising comes from a reliable source.

How are billboards (whether on the highway or on websites) "reliable" sources? The advertiser wants impressions. In fact, the main reason why radio paid 60% more for PPM was because advertisers wanted a better measure of impressions, including those against the 20% or so of a station's cume that did not even know what station they were listening to...

We're a community radio station, we have loyal listeners & pull. We're much more effective than a pass thru 'exposure'.

Being the skeptic that I am, that sounds like a summation for a plan to build an LPFM.

 

[Mac Black]

First of all, u don't even know who I am & don't need to know who I am. This is a debate about programming strategy, not a list of personal or professional accomplishments, let's keep it that way.

Having an idea whether a person has any major market, competitive environment, success does lend credibility to an argument and separates the points from mere speculation.

More like u can't argue, you're trying to make it about me.

Second of all, who wants to hear the same songs for 12 months?

Listeners? Well, at least those who are beyond adolescence. Those inside 25-54.

Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

If a song tests with top-of-the-stack "favorite" scores after 20, 30, 40 weeks, why would you want to reduce its airplay? A song that scores high favorites is one that has an enormous emotional appeal. Unfortunately, specifics forces the discussion into anecdotal experience. And while I can give many, many cases of songs that have been legitimate "powers" for 6 months or more, I can relate one case where multiple songs were powers for up to 13 months while the station moved to #1 in America's most important radio market... listeners don't go away when their favorite songs are played often.

Burnout. People get tired, even of their favorites. More variety, more favorites, no burnout.

The listeners will tell u what they wanna hear. We get requests all day everyday, the people know what they want.

No, the listeners who "call" (whether via phone or other newer technologies) are a very small subset of a station's listeners. They are seldom representative, as anyone on the air who has received a request for a song they are either playing or just played three minutes ago will tell you.

People who ask for a specific song are, if the sample were believable, telling you what songs you are not playing often enough. Or maybe they are telling you to play songs of artists they "Like" on FB and where they have been told to call radio stations to "support me/us."

I had a case, in a 30-station market, where we got no requests following a format switch... week after week, no requests. The first ratings finally appeared, and the station had a 33.5 share, about triple the closest station. Later interviews showed listeners saying, over and over, "why would I call if all the songs I wanted to hear were being played?"

First of all, I find that story to be complete crap. IMO all listener feedback, requests, suggestions, interactions, etc. (all documented-public file), along with market research, national research, charts, websites, longevity, burnout, gut feeling, experience etc are all looked at as tools to help me make my decisions. I don't limit myself to one 'tool'.

My staff is always interacting with the listeners, in the studio & in the community, they're very in the know, as am I. Like I said, my job is to be in the know.

Generally, the listeners who interact with a radio station are active listeners. Again, a tiny group in the hyper-cume PPM world. If you only track such listeners, you may be annoying the bulk of the potential listener base.

It may be a small percentage of listeners, but they still give u a general idea.

Research is nice to have, but the station is not gonna stop & wait on it.

I feel you are talking about currents... which are researched via some manner of the traditional callout methodology... phone, intercept, random-sample internet invites, etc. The results are nearly instantaneous. Since a song is not researchable until it's been widely exposed to the format partisans multiple times, you can confirm the judgment call to add a song instantly once the tune is mature enough to be researched.

I'm well aware of what research is, thanks. I'm also aware of what Google is. It goes with any song, I'll put it in for research, but it's going in rotation right now.

We already know what they're feeling bc we're in their circle. We keep our station fresh & current, we're not sitting around waiting for validation. It's called being proactive.

All but a tiny fraction of adult listeners want familiarity first, not proactive-ness.

People also don't wanna turn on the radio & here the same song for the millionth time. They may not remember the song, but that doesn't mean we can't reintroduce them to the song. There have been songs that even I didn't remember, but that didn't stop me from enjoying it. Can u do anything other than quote the research?

Effective advertising comes from a reliable source.

How are billboards (whether on the highway or on websites) "reliable" sources? The advertiser wants impressions. In fact, the main reason why radio paid 60% more for PPM was because advertisers wanted a better measure of impressions, including those against the 20% or so of a station's cume that did not even know what station they were listening to...

We're a community radio station, we have loyal listeners & pull. We're much more effective than a pass thru 'exposure'.

Being the skeptic that I am, that sounds like a summation for a plan to build an LPFM.

Wrong, advertisers & stations wanted a more accurate way to measure listening. Billboards are usually not very effective anyway, but that's irrelevant. I'm not arguing over exposure either, anybody with a brain can figure out that if I hear a Coke commercial, it is exposing me to Coke, that's not the arguement. People want to support a community station & there are people who will go to these businesses that advertise on our station, just because they advertise on our station. In addition to those passive 'exposure' listeners. We're not the ones posted up with the empty remote. That sounds more like your station.

 

[OHTBGH]

RO will sell their stattions in Dallas/Ft.Worth by the end of the year. There are at least three major buyers talking to them right now. It is the worst performing market they have in the chain. The PD's will tweak formats and continue to provide the best content to salvage it until the sale , but its a done deal. Also look for the 97.9 station to drop their syndicated moirning show in the next few weeks. Ricky Smiley is getting killed in Dallas (19th) by the KKDA morning show and they will drop him to try to get the ratings up, so the overall price of the stations will go up. Just business. Looks like after 7 or 8 years in a hard fought battle, old Hyman Chiles is the victor. Congrats. Cheer to the little guys out in Dallas

Time to sell the Radio One stock! ;D

-BGH

 

[davideduardo]

More like u can't argue, you're trying to make it about me.

No, I'm trying to ascertain whether you are in broadcasting, an interested listener, a person with programming experience and/or whether you have been in a real competitive situation.

Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

If a song, whatever its age, is one of the two or three highest on "favorite" (as opposed to "like" or "neutral" or "dislike" or "hate" or "used to like but now tired of" then you are committing radio sin by not playing it very, very often. "Favorite" is the strongest emotional tie a listener can have.

Burnout. People get tired, even of their favorites. More variety, more favorites, no burnout.

If a song scores high on favorites and very low on "used to like but tired of now" then it's not burnt out.

I had a case, in a 30-station market, where we got no requests following a format switch... week after week, no requests. The first ratings finally appeared, and the station had a 33.5 share, about triple the closest station. Later interviews showed listeners saying, over and over, "why would I call if all the songs I wanted to hear were being played?"

First of all, I find that story to be complete crap. IMO all listener feedback, requests, suggestions, interactions, etc. (all documented-public file), along with market research, national research, charts, websites, longevity, burnout, gut feeling, experience etc are all looked at as tools to help me make my decisions. I don't limit myself to one 'tool'.

Comments about music (unless in the context of a broader community service issue or an indecency matter) and requests are not what is required in the public file.

As to the "crap" comment, the station was WZNT in Market #13 and, after 90 days on the air, it pulled a 33.5 share; it did a 22.5 in its first Mediatrend after 21 days in the new format. The same station, today, is consistently top 5 in Arbitron, too. And the station got essentially no requests in its first few months on the air... and very few thereafter. Among the demos it was #1 in was teens.

The data is verifiable by following the link below. There is also info on the LA reference, and another case of a station in the second largest market in the Hemisphere with a 400 song list that beat a "deep cuts" station by about 15 to 1 until the deep cuts folks switched format.

It may be a small percentage of listeners, but they still give u a general idea.

Phone and related input that is inbound (as opposed to outbound, meaning recruited in a representative and proportional sample) is far more likely to send a station astray than to offer any kind of positive guidance.

I'm well aware of what research is, thanks. I'm also aware of what Google is. It goes with any song, I'll put it in for research, but it's going in rotation right now.

No new add can be locally researched; even if the song got prior play in another market or even in another format, you can't get meaningful research feedback until you have played it enough times for the average listener to have heard it somewhere north of about 5 times... otherwise the response is based on the "sound" of the song and not the song itself and is thus meaningless.

People also don't wanna turn on the radio & here the same song for the millionth time.

If you go back to the last time we were told radio was dead, Top 40 got such huge shares because it fulfilled... for the first time perhaps, the listener's desire to hear the same favorite songs every time they tuned in.

I've done thousand or so research projects and I've yet to hear anyone say, "what I really want is a station that plays lots of songs I've never heard before."

And if you track those lesser-scoring, less familiar, deep cuts on MediaMonitors against PPM instantaneous data, you can see how truly deadly they are.

They may not remember the song, but that doesn't mean we can't reintroduce them to the song. There have been songs that even I didn't remember, but that didn't stop me from enjoying it. Can u do anything other than quote the research?

"Research" is just a word for "what the listener likes and dislikes" and I've always thought that what I liked or did not like was of no significance and what the listener wants is the reason whey we are in radio.

In fact, the main reason why radio paid 60% more for PPM was because advertisers wanted a better measure of impressions, including those against the 20% or so of a station's cume that did not even know what station they were listening to...

Wrong, advertisers & stations wanted a more accurate way to measure listening.

Having been part of the PPM development process from the time of the Philly tests nearly a decade ago, I can tell you that radio paid so much more for ratings because advertisers wanted a measurement of impressions, and since ratings are bought by stations to give to advertisers, we do what the client wants.

The PPM devalued radio listening by nearly 40%, and devalued each station's AQH persons delivery by just as much... this was not the sort of thing radio did just because the industry collectively thought it would be fun to push the "reset" button.

Billboards are usually not very effective anyway, but that's irrelevant.

There is significant information that shows that statement to be in error. Beyond POP, a lot of very big advertisers consistently use the medium for very specific purposes.

We're not the ones posted up with the empty remote. That sounds more like your station.

Follow the link.

 

[wdb2003]

www.radioinsight.com is reporting that KSOC will go in the direction similar to sister station WMOJ in Cincinatti

How were their numbers when they were Rhythmic Oldies on 102.1 years ago. Its clear Dallas doesnt need 2 Urban AC stations. KRNB keeps changing year after year. Didnt KRNB use the Oldschool moniker when Sam Weaver was the PD years ago. That flopped after 2 years

 

[bucwhyl]

www.radioinsight.com is reporting that KSOC will go in the direction similar to sister station WMOJ in Cincinatti

How were their numbers when they were Rhythmic Oldies on 102.1 years ago. Its clear Dallas doesnt need 2 Urban AC stations. KRNB keeps changing year after year. Didnt KRNB use the Oldschool moniker when Sam Weaver was the PD years ago. That flopped after 2 years

Yep, they did, and yes, it did.... I'm thinking the "Old School" thing is just a smokescreen, because I just don't see going in that direction working.

 

[wdb2003]

Not to mention isnt KKDA AM still Urban Oldies? Eventhough I looked at the yes.com log for KKDA AM and notice a few current hits being played once a hour. More than likely it will be a Hot Urban AC format. Youll hear a wow song for a few weeks and it will settle into tight playlist again. That effect is already happening in St. Louis and D.C. both stations sound dull now. Espically WFUN since the PD left. I doubt too Toms show will be dropped but it could happen KKBT in Los Angeles did after 6 months. But hey he's back in New York City on Kiss

 

[bucwhyl]

Not to mention isnt KKDA AM still Urban Oldies? Eventhough I looked at the yes.com log for KKDA AM and notice a few current hits being played once a hour. More than likely it will be a Hot Urban AC format. Youll hear a wow song for a few weeks and it will settle into tight playlist again. That effect is already happening in St. Louis and D.C. both stations sound dull now. Espically WFUN since the PD left. I doubt too Toms show will be dropped but it could happen KKBT in Los Angeles did after 6 months. But hey he's back in New York City on Kiss

And I heard Tom is doing horrible once again in NYC.

 

[Mac Black]

Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

If a song, whatever its age, is one of the two or three highest on "favorite" (as opposed to "like" or "neutral" or "dislike" or "hate" or "used to like but now tired of" then you are committing radio sin by not playing it very, very often. "Favorite" is the strongest emotional tie a listener can have.

No, u realize your listeners have more than one 'favorite' & u leave them wanting more. U do this long before 12 months though, I would never have any song in rotation for that long. I can always bring it back.

Burnout. People get tired, even of their favorites. More variety, more favorites, no burnout.

If a song scores high on favorites and very low on "used to like but tired of now" then it's not burnt out.

If you've been playing a song heavy rotation nonstop for 12 months & people still list it as 'favorite' your research is not being conducted correctly.

I had a case, in a 30-station market, where we got no requests following a format switch... week after week, no requests. The first ratings finally appeared, and the station had a 33.5 share, about triple the closest station. Later interviews showed listeners saying, over and over, "why would I call if all the songs I wanted to hear were being played?"

First of all, I find that story to be complete crap. IMO all listener feedback, requests, suggestions, interactions, etc. (all documented-public file), along with market research, national research, charts, websites, longevity, burnout, gut feeling, experience etc are all looked at as tools to help me make my decisions. I don't limit myself to one 'tool'.

Comments about music (unless in the context of a broader community service issue or an indecency matter) and requests are not what is required in the public file.

As to the "crap" comment, the station was WZNT in Market #13 and, after 90 days on the air, it pulled a 33.5 share; it did a 22.5 in its first Mediatrend after 21 days in the new format. The same station, today, is consistently top 5 in Arbitron, too. And the station got essentially no requests in its first few months on the air... and very few thereafter. Among the demos it was #1 in was teens.

The data is verifiable by following the link below. There is also info on the LA reference, and another case of a station in the second largest market in the Hemisphere with a 400 song list that beat a "deep cuts" station by about 15 to 1 until the deep cuts folks switched format.

Any feedback listeners from listeners is required to go in the public file. Never heard of that station, I'll be sure & google that. If a playlist that narrow beats out a station with a much larger library, that says alot more about the larger library station than the narrow one. They must have really sucked. Teens don't have any buying power anyway.

It may be a small percentage of listeners, but they still give u a general idea.

Phone and related input that is inbound (as opposed to outbound, meaning recruited in a representative and proportional sample) is far more likely to send a station astray than to offer any kind of positive guidance.

Not if u know how to use it. You're looking for trends.

I'm well aware of what research is, thanks. I'm also aware of what Google is. It goes with any song, I'll put it in for research, but it's going in rotation right now.

No new add can be locally researched; even if the song got prior play in another market or even in another format, you can't get meaningful research feedback until you have played it enough times for the average listener to have heard it somewhere north of about 5 times... otherwise the response is based on the "sound" of the song and not the song itself and is thus meaningless.

By the time the research comes back they will have heard it more than 5 times

People also don't wanna turn on the radio & here the same song for the millionth time.

If you go back to the last time we were told radio was dead, Top 40 got such huge shares because it fulfilled... for the first time perhaps, the listener's desire to hear the same favorite songs every time they tuned in.

I've done thousand or so research projects and I've yet to hear anyone say, "what I really want is a station that plays lots of songs I've never heard before."

And if you track those lesser-scoring, less familiar, deep cuts on MediaMonitors against PPM instantaneous data, you can see how truly deadly they are.

I've heard alot of people ask for new music & more variety.

They may not remember the song, but that doesn't mean we can't reintroduce them to the song. There have been songs that even I didn't remember, but that didn't stop me from enjoying it. Can u do anything other than quote the research?

"Research" is just a word for "what the listener likes and dislikes" and I've always thought that what I liked or did not like was of no significance and what the listener wants is the reason whey we are in radio.

Yes, there is also 'flawed' research & 'biased' research. Research is opinion of a group of people. U have to take into account who's in that group, what they listen to, who they listen to, where they listen at, when they listen, age, gender, job, where they live, buying power, etc. Research does not always speak for everybody, or even the collective. U have to look at how it was conducted. I'd much rather trust those loyal listeners who listen on a daily basis & have some actual exposure to the station.

In fact, the main reason why radio paid 60% more for PPM was because advertisers wanted a better measure of impressions, including those against the 20% or so of a station's cume that did not even know what station they were listening to...

Wrong, advertisers & stations wanted a more accurate way to measure listening.

Having been part of the PPM development process from the time of the Philly tests nearly a decade ago, I can tell you that radio paid so much more for ratings because advertisers wanted a measurement of impressions, and since ratings are bought by stations to give to advertisers, we do what the client wants.

The PPM devalued radio listening by nearly 40%, and devalued each station's AQH persons delivery by just as much... this was not the sort of thing radio did just because the industry collectively thought it would be fun to push the "reset" button.

I'm sure exposure was a reason, but it's not the only reason. Programming also wanted more accurate data & not just a popularity contest. Arbitron is also the only form of listening measurement being widely used.

Billboards are usually not very effective anyway, but that's irrelevant.

There is significant information that shows that statement to be in error. Beyond POP, a lot of very big advertisers consistently use the medium for very specific purposes.

Yeah, alot of data....from the billboard companies.

 

[wdb2003]

Not to mention isnt KKDA AM still Urban Oldies? Eventhough I looked at the yes.com log for KKDA AM and notice a few current hits being played once a hour. More than likely it will be a Hot Urban AC format. Youll hear a wow song for a few weeks and it will settle into tight playlist again. That effect is already happening in St. Louis and D.C. both stations sound dull now. Espically WFUN since the PD left. I doubt too Toms show will be dropped but it could happen KKBT in Los Angeles did after 6 months. But hey he's back in New York City on Kiss

And I heard Tom is doing horrible once again in NYC.

Yeah hes only on there because D.L Hughley morning show didnt last and Kiss needed a morning show badly. I keep forgetting Tom is almost 60 and I havent listen in years but I stumble accross his show a few weeks back on my iphone its not the same show anymore. New jingles suck and I wonder does he still do a Skyshow. I only went to one in Detroit a few years back to see Toni Braxton.

 

[BBontheRadio]

Who wants to hear the same songs for 12 months? Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

The listeners will tell u what they wanna hear. We get requests all day everyday, the people know what they want. My staff is always interacting with the listeners, in the studio & in the community, they're very in the know.

The request line is one of the *worst* things you can listen to. It represents, at best, the fringe of your listeners. Many, if not most, normal listeners never have and never will call a request line. Sure, it's a great tool, but it must be appropriately used with other forms of research.

 

[bturner]

I constantly hear radio listeners ask for more variety on radio and complain about long stop sets.

The trouble is when you ask them what 'variety' they want, you get answers that are nor 'deep cuts' but such a wide variety of obscure songs nobody would touch them with a ten foot pole.

On the other hand, back when people were not privy to such specialized format choices and options on the dial, I played quite a few songs that simply had the sound or image we wanted for the format. Listeners were less likely to tune away then because, I suppose, there was an emotional bond established with the DJs and station in general. Some of those songs became a part of our permanent library based on how well they did...not the vast majority but some were what you might call local hits. This was in the late 1970s and 1980s.

 

[Mac Black]

Who wants to hear the same songs for 12 months? Where's the emotional reaction at 12 months? It's long gone. Your listeners are long gone.

The listeners will tell u what they wanna hear. We get requests all day everyday, the people know what they want. My staff is always interacting with the listeners, in the studio & in the community, they're very in the know.

The request line is one of the *worst* things you can listen to. It represents, at best, the fringe of your listeners. Many, if not most, normal listeners never have and never will call a request line. Sure, it's a great tool, but it must be appropriately used with other forms of research.

We don't blindly follow anything. Every request we get is logged & we look at it. We look at it collectively, for trends. That could be for a particular song, artist, type of music, etc. We don't add a song or dramatically increase spins just bc we get a request for it. It is one of many things we take into consideration. But these people listen to our station & took the time to call. They listen, they know what they want. We also have a feedback line, feedback section on our websites, biweekly callout music surveys online, phone callout surveys, facebook surveys, facebook feedback, we always ask in person, what competition is playing/not playing, what other markets are playing/not playing, what we're playing/not playing, how long we/they have been playing it, artist, what people are searching for online & especially youtube, how many people have uploaded youtube vids, comments, comment dates, likes, dislikes, ages, how people react to a particular song in person, clubs, office, etc, how people rate a particular song on our stream, downloads, album sales, song charts, auditorium testing, audience makeup, market makeup, etc, etc, etc. It is really not that hard to figure out what the people want. We look at all that. All the indicators point to the same thing. It is clear as day to us what our listeners want. I've been doing this long enough to see thru the bull. Most testing, market research survey a very small percentage of listeners. There is no one test or one survey that can speak for everyone, u have to look at everything as a whole.

 

[davideduardo]

No, u realize your listeners have more than one 'favorite' & u leave them wanting more. U do this long before 12 months though, I would never have any song in rotation for that long. I can always bring it back.

You miss the point (or should I say "u miss the point") in that I was discussing the error often made of dropping a song to lower rotation when it is the highest or one of two or three highest scoring on faves and has insignificant burn on it.

Why would anyone want to kill off a song that is the most loved or among two or three most loved songs of the moment? That's letting mechanics or "we've always done it that way" dictate programming rather than letting listeners dictate.

If you've been playing a song heavy rotation nonstop for 12 months & people still list it as 'favorite' your research is not being conducted correctly.

I assure you that the research was being conducted very properly by a talented in-house crew with the latest in technology and sampling techniques using (in the incident I discussed) SSI or MetroMail databases, the same ones used by Arbitron in that era. Screening was very precise and had multiple gates for entry.

Any feedback listeners from listeners is required to go in the public file.

No, that is not true or any e-mail asking for a song would have to be there. The instructions from the FCC are "Commercial stations must keep in their files, for at least three years, written comments, suggestions, and e-mails received from the public regarding their operation. (Noncommercial educational stations are not subject to this requirement.) This obligation is limited to comments, suggestions, and e-mails sent to station management or a publicized station address. "

That means that "fan letters" about a DJ or comments about an artist and such are not required... just those that specifically address real programming issues. Were you to put everything in the file, you'd have everything from contest entries to song requests in the public file, which is not necessary and which tends to hide meaningful communications.

Never heard of that station, I'll be sure & google that.

It's initial success was a major "worst to first" story in R&R.

If a playlist that narrow beats out a station with a much larger library, that says alot more about the larger library station than the narrow one.

It says that people don't want deep cuts when they have the alternative of getting the songs they really like. Every song on the other station had been a hit; they just did not know which ones were still hits years later (both played currents, but covered 5 decades of rock as well).

They must have really sucked. Teens don't have any buying power anyway.

Teens move some formats. CHRs have traditionally built out from a teen core, and are key, salable or not, to a number of formats.

Not if u know how to use it. You're looking for trends

It's quite hard to distinguish the real listeners from the artist fans (think "Idol") on call-ins. Many are not even your P1s or P2s or P3s... they are the music equivalents of prize pigs. Any "incoming" research has to be severely questioned.

By the time the research comes back they will have heard it more than 5 times

I'm telling you, now three times, that you don't put a song on research until the song has gotten to the 5 times point... which may be somewhere around 100 to 125 non-overnight spins. And when it hits that point, you can have a decent callout (by phone or web panel) cycle in 24 to 48 hours). There is no waiting.

I've heard alot of people ask for new music & more variety.

Calls for more variety mean that a listener's favorites are not being heard often enough, and that songs they don't like are being played more often. The highest scores for variety are generally achieved by true Top 40 stations with active libraries of perhaps 100 songs. 100 Hits. 100 songs people tune in to hear.

Yes, there is also 'flawed' research & 'biased' research. Research is opinion of a group of people. U have to take into account who's in that group, what they listen to, who they listen to, where they listen at, when they listen, age, gender, job, where they live, buying power, etc. Research does not always speak for everybody, or even the collective. U have to look at how it was conducted. I'd much rather trust those loyal listeners who listen on a daily basis & have some actual exposure to the station.

If the station uses a good research company and the company uses a good recruiter with the right recruit specification, then you will get the desired results. A small sample for an AMT, such as 100 persons, is 10 to 20 times more than the number of dials that determine your fate at any time in the day.

I'm sure exposure was a reason, but it's not the only reason. Programming also wanted more accurate data & not just a popularity contest. Arbitron is also the only form of listening measurement being widely used.

Ad agencies wanted faster delivery, more reports and a true measure of impressions. "Engagement" was not a factor, and just this year, and engagement metric was decided not to be created by Arbitron.

 

[secondchoice]

Time to sell the Radio One stock! ;D

-BGH

You should have never bought it.

 

[davideduardo]

Time to sell the Radio One stock! ;D

-BGH

You should have never bought it.

There was a point where some big profits could have been made. ROIA popped at $21, and after a 3 x1 split, ROIA and ROIAK were around $30 a share... for about a $69 a share profit on the pre-split cost at the time of the IPO.

It was pretty much downhill from then on... the original shares are worth about $4.50 today, a loss of about 80%.

 

[Mac Black]

If people still like it, I'll still play it. But if I've been playing it for too long, I don't care how well it tests, I'm pulling it. People will be just as excited by the next song. & 12 months is more than a 'moment'. It's called moving on.

I consider listener requests 'suggestions'. They're suggesting we play this song. Music is a programming issue. Jocks & programming are also a programming issue. Yes, the file is pretty thick. Better safe than sorry.

We play the hits, we just play a greater variety of them & not as long.

Teens have no money. Top 40 sucks.

If I do recall, 'Idol' is the #1 show on tv. Groupies have opinions just like everybody else.

Exactly, that's why we take their comments into consideration. I'm sure u don't get too many requests for a 12 month old song.

A sample is still a sample. We're not programming to a sample, we're programming to a market. It is the opinion of a small group of people & viewed as such.

Yes, Arbitron wanted alot of things. Engagement has nothing to do with Arbitron, it has to do with effective advertising.

 

[davideduardo]

If people still like it, I'll still play it. But if I've been playing it for too long, I don't care how well it tests, I'm pulling it. People will be just as excited by the next song. & 12 months is more than a 'moment'. It's called moving on.

Translation: "I don't care if the listeners want to hear a song they passionately like. I am going to replace it with one they are unfamiliar with, and one which will take weeks to build an emotional bond with if it does not stiff out.

"Move On" works for George Soros. It does not work for proven hits.

I consider listener requests 'suggestions'.

How do you know the requester is a listener? Many requests come from people related to the artist, the artist's label, the tour promoter if the artist is coming to your city, fan clubs, groupies and such.

We play the hits, we just play a greater variety of them & not as long.

Then you do not play the hits. Your statement is contradictory and counter-listener. You will pull a hit if in your opinion it has been on "too long." You will add songs that are not yet hits, and about half of which will stiff, to get what you erroneously think is variety.

Teens have no money.

I did not say teens had money (They do, in fact. And they influence many family expenditures.) I said teens can drive Top 40 and some other formats, giving them the critical mass to impact a market.

Top 40 sucks.

I just can't add up all the reasons why that statement is wrong.

First, Top 40, dating to KOWH in '52 (I'll bet you give me a "never heard of that one..." on this station, too) gave radio a new life after TV began to kill network radio. Historically, all music formats of today are in one way or another derivatives of Todd Storz's creation and inspiration.

Second, Top 40 is generally the leading format in 18-34 women, which is the target for CHR (which is just a name R&R gave to Top 40). The second highest billing station in the US, and probably in the world, is Top 40: KIIS in LA. The 6th highest, Z-100, is also CHR. Oh, and KIIS is the #1 billing music station and WHTZ is third... WLTW, a "CHR lite for adults" is second.

Third, no format that gets large numbers of listeners "sucks" because radio is supposed to offer alternatives to nearly every listener group.

Fourth, stating that "Top 40 sucks" makes me further doubt that you are a programmer of anything other than a Live365 stream or an LPFM. Good programmers respect other formats, and in the PPM CHR is a very good format in a number of ways.

If I do recall, 'Idol' is the #1 show on tv. Groupies have opinions just like everybody else.

No disputing either fact. However, when groupies call my radio station to push artists they vote/voted for on a TV show... they are not helping me or radio. They are simply pushing a personal agenda. Of course, there are exceptions as Raleigh's WTQR magnificently showed... but those happen when the station take the steps to become a part of a phenomenon, rather than being caught up in a tornado.

Exactly, that's why we take their comments into consideration. I'm sure u don't get too many requests for a 12 month old song.

If you move it to a lighter rotation, you will... because you are not playing it enough. Generally, you don't get that many listener requests for songs that are in the correct rotation because you are satisfying the need often enough. A little Reach and Frequency calculation will help make that happen.

A sample is still a sample. We're not programming to a sample, we're programming to a market. It is the opinion of a small group of people & viewed as such.

A sample that replicates is a very accurate representation of the entire universe under study. If I do an AMT and then, on successive days do another and another and they all give the same results within a percent or two, I know that the size of each AMT is big enough to quite faithfully reflect the market. And if I take one AMT and randomly extract half the sample, and it, too, is within the same range, I know I could do a smaller test with good results... but I won't because I want no-shows, pay and sends and disqualified respondents to have only minimal effect on the project sample size.

As Bobby Darin sang,

"Replication… that’s the name of the game!
And each generation… it’s played the same!"

And "we" are programming to a sample: diarykeepers or metered households.

As a little poster one ratings consultant handed out at NAB years ago said, "It's the diarykeeper, stupid!"

Yes, Arbitron wanted alot of things. Engagement has nothing to do with Arbitron, it has to do with effective advertising.

What Arbitron wanted was to sell a more expensive product. As Arbitron learned in the late 60's and early 70's when they drove Hooper out of radio in the US, if you sell to the agencies, radio will have to subscribe. They did it again to finish off The Pulse and they also did it to prevent Birch from getting enduring traction.

Arbitron got agencies to buy off Arbitron. That forced radio to support Arbitron.

Arbitron had a task force of big agency, buying service, rep and radio people who worked on an "Engagement Metric" and worked for over a year to perfect the data the metric was derived from and finally all involved collectively decided that such a metric was not going to be a positive factor for radio and the concept was abandoned for the moment.

So engagement does have something to do with Arbitron. And it is measurable via quantitative techniques. You are just wrong on this whole point of why we got and have PPM.

 

[Mac Black]

No, people like more than one song. I like Musiq Soulchild's new song "Yes", I also like "So Beautiful". Does that mean I should keep playing 'Yes' until my audience is just completely sick of it? No, I'll play it for a while, then give it a rest & play "So Beautiful". Remember, I like that song too. When I drop "Yes" I've played it long enough to where I'm not getting any requests for it. Then, I'll bring 'Yes' back at some point & my listeners will be like 'yeahhh this was the joint!' Then I'll drop it again & give 'Love' a try...that's my song too. BTW all 3 of those were HITS.

That problem is easily solved by looking at the 'sender'.

If the teens have no money, & teens are listening, how are they going out & supporting these businesses, besides asking mommy? Mommy makes the buying decision. They're not, therefore your station is ineffective. The target is 18-34.

If artist groupies are calling up requesting an artist, that means they are following an artist, like an artist & will listen to an artist.