KJOJ has been sold!

[willdav713]

KEYH's highly directional 10kw puts a solid signal over Houston. Even the 185 watts at night does suprisingly well. I think Liberman will dump 1230 but keep 850.

Gosh I wish that 850 would go off the air and give everybody a clean shot at KONO 860! KEYH isn't even a good neighbor, slopping high frequency artifacts all over 860 even if you null the garbage on 850 out the best you can.

I wish that Clear Channel would dump KTKR 760 and air the True Oldies Channel on AM 760! or move the Sports format to 92.5 with the Stereo pilot turned off.

760 doesn't have a very good signal in Houston. I'd a lot rather they put it on 720, 680, 630, or 550. Any of those are much stronger than 760. But still - 760 has no first adjacents in Houston, so it would be a better frequency than 860.

AM 720, and AM 550 are owned by BMP. The True Oldies Channel in Austin is on a BMP frequency. If we can get people to write to BMP maybe they might do it, they might on 720 since they also broadcast the same Norteno format on 104.1 in San Antonio.

 

[Mediafrog+]

AM 720, and AM 550 are owned by BMP. The True Oldies Channel in Austin is on a BMP frequency. If we can get people to write to BMP maybe they might do it, they might on 720 since they also broadcast the same Norteno format on 104.1 in San Antonio.

So you're saying that KSAH should dump a Spanish language format aimed at San Antonio so Houstonians can listen to Oldies from a station 200 miles away? :

Not going to happen.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

So you're saying that KSAH should dump a Spanish language format aimed at San Antonio so Houstonians can listen to Oldies from a station 200 miles away? :

Not going to happen.

Nice to think about, I don't expect them to program for Houston. But stranger things have been known to happen, like 560 in Beaumont programming to Houston. About the only SA signal that might have a chance in Houston ratings would be 680, due to a unique format. But 200 miles is a lot farther than 80 miles, the signal proportionally weaker, and interference levels severe. Another AM rim shot with a chance at Houston audience is KCTA 1030. But the format is awful, of no interest.

Still, stations here ignore the oldies audience that produces great ratings in Dallas and San Antonio. Sooner or later, somebody will make a lot of money with it here - done right. Until then, we are stuck with KONO 860, KHVL 1490, KVNS 1700. I discovered a standards / oldies station on 1220 from Madisonville - not too bad, especially since standards KAAM 770 is messing around with HD, which has considerably weakened their signal in Houston.

 

[stan]

AM 560 could simulcast KCOL-FM and then you could accomplish two things - ending the redundancy of many programs on 560 and 740 and get a classic hits station into Houston from the east.

 

[willdav713]

AM 720, and AM 550 are owned by BMP. The True Oldies Channel in Austin is on a BMP frequency. If we can get people to write to BMP maybe they might do it, they might on 720 since they also broadcast the same Norteno format on 104.1 in San Antonio.

So you're saying that KSAH should dump a Spanish language format aimed at San Antonio so Houstonians can listen to Oldies from a station 200 miles away? :

Not going to happen.

They did with La Ley and Digital in Austin, Texas. Also they have changed their stations logo to include 104.1 FM. They could move KTSA's talk format over to AM 720 and flip AM 550. Austin has 2 oldies stations one on 95.5 HD-2 and the other on 98.9. Before KSJL 76 flipped to WOAI-760 they moved it to 96.1. It could very well happen. I haven't looked at KSAH-AM recent numbers. WOAI has already won the News/Talk format war in San Antonio.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

They did with La Ley and Digital in Austin, Texas. Also they have changed their stations logo to include 104.1 FM. They could move KTSA's talk format over to AM 720 and flip AM 550. Austin has 2 oldies stations one on 95.5 HD-2 and the other on 98.9. Before KSJL 76 flipped to WOAI-760 they moved it to 96.1. It could very well happen. I haven't looked at KSAH-AM recent numbers. WOAI has already won the News/Talk format war in San Antonio.

760 is really pretty weak in Houston, I really hope if there is an oldies flip it would be on 550 or something with a better signal, almost as strong as KLVI when you are in far West Houston. KTSA was a legacy Gordon McLendon top-40 station, it would be nice to hear music again on it. I still remember the great days of KLIF 1190 in Dallas, KILT 610 in Houston. I was living in Houston when KILT went country - and left my presets for good that day. Now it is probably thought of as legacy country. BLEAH. No - the KILT call letters will always be synonymous with great top-40 in the 60's, just as KLIF and KTSA also mean great top-40 radio from the 60's.

 

[Mediafrog+]

I really hope if there is an oldies flip it would be on 550 or something with a better signal, almost as strong as KLVI when you are in far West Houston.

Virtually no chance of oldies appearing on KTSA, not with KONO in the market on both AM and FM.

No - the KILT call letters will always be synonymous with great top-40 in the 60's, just as KLIF and KTSA also mean great top-40 radio from the 60's.

I remember all three stations from their Top 40 heyday. But, reality check: Those days were almost half a century ago. Anyone younger than the dreaded 55+ has no real memory of that time. All three stations were in decline once the 70's came along.

Nostalgia for a distant past is probably not a viable model in 2012 and beyond. And not everyone wants to wallow in that era, either...they've moved on. Much, if not most of the music is stuff I'm either sick of, or have outgrown.

Just a thought: If listeners in the 60's had demanded music as far back in time as what oldies are considered today...they would have been listening to music from.......World War One.

The earliest Elvis songs are closer in time to the Spanish-American War than they are to the present day.

 

[willdav713]

I really hope if there is an oldies flip it would be on 550 or something with a better signal, almost as strong as KLVI when you are in far West Houston.

Virtually no chance of oldies appearing on KTSA, not with KONO in the market on both AM and FM.

Austin has 2 Oldies stations one on HD-2 and one on FM. Plus when KKMJ did the all 70s weekend 2007-2011, that made 3 from 2009-2011.

No - the KILT call letters will always be synonymous with great top-40 in the 60's, just as KLIF and KTSA also mean great top-40 radio from the 60's.

I remember all three stations from their Top 40 heyday. But, reality check: Those days were almost half a century ago. Anyone younger than the dreaded 55+ has no real memory of that time. All three stations were in decline once the 70's came along.

Nostalgia for a distant past is probably not a viable model in 2012 and beyond. And not everyone wants to wallow in that era, either...they've moved on. Much, if not most of the music is stuff I'm either sick of, or have outgrown.

KAHL is adult standards which plays older music than KONO and it is on AM and FM in San Antonio.

Just a thought: If listeners in the 60's had demanded music as far back in time as what oldies are considered today...they would have been listening to music from.......World War One.

The earliest Elvis songs are closer in time to the Spanish-American War than they are to the present day.

San Antonio's retired miltary would have the audience to support it. It is just a matter of time. Expect a news/talk or sports station to flip this year in San Antonio.

 

[TooMuchCoffee]

The earliest Elvis songs are closer in time to the Spanish-American War than they are to the present day.

Now there's a sobering thought.

 

[FilioScotia]

****The earliest Elvis songs are closer in time to the Spanish-American War than they are to the present day.***

Well, not quite, if you want to be precise. It depends on which songs you mean.

Elvis's earliest recordings were done in 1953 and early 1954. He and Sam Philips didn't find the sound they wanted till July of 54. The Spanish-American War was fought from April to August of 1898.

My 3rd grade arithmetic says those early keeper "songs' were laid down 56 years later.

Subtract 56 from 2012 and you get -- ta-taahhh -- 56.

Captain Anal signing off.

 

[Kent]

San Antonio's retired miltary would have the audience to support it. It is just a matter of time. Expect a news/talk or sports station to flip this year in San Antonio.

They might support it, but they're too old for ad agencies to be interested. Radio is, and always has been, about the advertisers. The advertisers want to reach as many people as they can who they think will be good, reliable customers. Most of them don't see the over 55 crowd as being good, reliable customers. Getting a crowd advertisers don't want just won't make you any money!

Also, keep in mind that, in spite of a large older population, San Antonio is one of the fastest growing cities in the entire country. I believe it's growing at a faster rate than both Dallas and Houston, and the median age of the area has actually gotten younger over the last 10-20 years.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Nostalgia for a distant past is probably not a viable model in 2012 and beyond. And not everyone wants to wallow in that era, either...they've moved on. Much, if not most of the music is stuff I'm either sick of, or have outgrown.

Except for one obvious flaw in your theory. Young people are discovering the music from the 50's, 60's, and 70's because it is good music. A lot of the later stuff basically sucks because artists were focused on videos instead of musical quality. Glee is enormously popular playing oldies remakes. Big Time Rush is fixing to debut 4 Beatles remakes. Many artists cite old songs and artists as their inspiration. Beatles are selling well on iTunes. Oldies are all over TV in commercials. They are played in restaurants. I could go on and on - but the music is destined to live on. It may never be as big as it was in the top-40 days, it may or may not sell as much as current top-40. But when San Antonio and Dallas, Los Angeles, New York and many other cities have oldies / classic hits in the top ten of the ratings, even top five - there is a market for the music that is not all over 55. Advertisers don't care who is listening. They look at ratings. Houston is an anomaly without an oldies station. Get used to it - there is a large demand that doesn't fit into your theories. And audiences don't fit into your neat little boxes. People will burst out of artificial boundaries and in this case listen to whatever music they want. If radio provides the format, they will listen on radio. If radio doesn't, they now have Pandora, iPods, streaming, satellite - and who knows whatever in the future. People are no longer captive audiences that radio used to enjoy. If oldies aren't on the radio, the rather large audience will go somewhere that does play it.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Young people are discovering the music from the 50's, 60's, and 70's because it is good music.

Young people may be familiar with the music of that era just like boomers knew about Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby. Doesn't mean they are flocking to it on the radio. I don't see that happening among any of the young people I know, who think that 80's music is ancient history. Show me how KLUV and KONO are tearing it up in the 12-24 demos. And where Mom and Dad aren't controlling the station selection. Uh-huh.

A lot of the later stuff basically sucks because artists were focused on videos instead of musical quality.

Generational chauvinism. "My generations music is best, everything else sucks." You have turned into your parents, who thought that Rock 'n Roll was garbage.

Glee is enormously popular playing oldies remakes.

The key word is "remakes." These are modernized versions of old tunes--something that existed in Top 40 radio half a century ago. However, Oldies stations don't play modern remakes of 50-'s-70's music. Bad comparison.

Big Time Rush is fixing to debut 4 Beatles remakes.

Still remakes, which the Oldies stations don't play.

Many artists cite old songs and artists as their inspiration.

Nothing new here. Artists have always been influenced by those who came before. But we are talking about music from decades ago, not what is being produced today.

Oldies are all over TV in commercials.

That is because licensing fees are much cheaper for old music, which isn't being played much any more. Songwriters and performers are looking for income streams, and are chopping their royalty demands to avoid becoming irrelevant.

They are played in restaurants.

Some do, but I hear all kinds of stuff in restaurants, most of it pretty bland. You must really enjoy the burgers at Sonic.

But when San Antonio and Dallas, Los Angeles, New York and many other cities have oldies / classic hits in the top ten of the ratings, even top five - there is a market for the music that is not all over 55.

However the music on many, if not most Oldies stations is now showing a heavy 70's influence, missing the 50's-60's stuff.

Advertisers don't care who is listening. They look at ratings.

Yes they do care who is listening. Otherwise the 6+ overall ratings would actually mean something, and not be given away for free by Arbitron. Advertisers very specifically target different demographics. They aren't going to pay for spillover.

Houston is an anomaly without an oldies station.

I will agree with you there. But then, why did KLDE vanish? Oh, yes--the station felt the demos were too old, as I recall.

 

[sdh483]

Young people are discovering the music from the 50's, 60's, and 70's because it is good music.

Young people may be familiar with the music of that era just like boomers knew about Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby. Doesn't mean they are flocking to it on the radio. I don't see that happening among any of the young people I know, who think that 80's music is ancient history. Show me how KLUV and KONO are tearing it up in the 12-24 demos. And where Mom and Dad aren't controlling the station selection. Uh-huh.

A lot of the later stuff basically sucks because artists were focused on videos instead of musical quality.

Generational chauvinism. "My generations music is best, everything else sucks." You have turned into your parents, who thought that Rock 'n Roll was garbage.

Glee is enormously popular playing oldies remakes.

The key word is "remakes." These are modernized versions of old tunes--something that existed in Top 40 radio half a century ago. However, Oldies stations don't play modern remakes of 50-'s-70's music. Bad comparison.

Big Time Rush is fixing to debut 4 Beatles remakes.

Still remakes, which the Oldies stations don't play.

Many artists cite old songs and artists as their inspiration.

Nothing new here. Artists have always been influenced by those who came before. But we are talking about music from decades ago, not what is being produced today.

Oldies are all over TV in commercials.

That is because licensing fees are much cheaper for old music, which isn't being played much any more. Songwriters and performers are looking for income streams, and are chopping their royalty demands to avoid becoming irrelevant.

They are played in restaurants.

Some do, but I hear all kinds of stuff in restaurants, most of it pretty bland. You must really enjoy the burgers at Sonic.

But when San Antonio and Dallas, Los Angeles, New York and many other cities have oldies / classic hits in the top ten of the ratings, even top five - there is a market for the music that is not all over 55.

However the music on many, if not most Oldies stations is now showing a heavy 70's influence, missing the 50's-60's stuff.

Advertisers don't care who is listening. They look at ratings.

Yes they do care who is listening. Otherwise the 6+ overall ratings would actually mean something, and not be given away for free by Arbitron. Advertisers very specifically target different demographics. They aren't going to pay for spillover.

Houston is an anomaly without an oldies station.

I will agree with you there. But then, why did KLDE vanish? Oh, yes--the station felt the demos were too old, as I recall.

WRONG! Cox wanted to go after CC's The Arrow right around when they acquired W&J (yuck!), brought Dean and Rog to 107.5
and created a classic rock format. Classic rock was on this frequency at one time, then flipped to alternative a la "The Buzz," where CC did a frequency swap with KLDE when it was on 94.5. Then those greedy Co(ck)x wanted to take a stab at CC then serve the city of Houston with an oldies station. It had nothing to do with demos being too old. If that was the case, then their current format is too old. Most guys who listen to classic rock are 55+ so that blows your theory out of the water.

 

[Kent]

WRONG! Cox wanted to go after CC's The Arrow right around when they acquired W&J (yuck!), brought Dean and Rog to 107.5
and created a classic rock format. Classic rock was on this frequency at one time, then flipped to alternative a la "The Buzz," where CC did a frequency swap with KLDE when it was on 94.5. Then those greedy Co(ck)x wanted to take a stab at CC then serve the city of Houston with an oldies station. It had nothing to do with demos being too old. If that was the case, then their current format is too old. Most guys who listen to classic rock are 55+ so that blows your theory out of the water.

I've never seen a single broadcaster say, "Hey! This station is doing great. Let's hire that morning show that just got displaced, change formats, and go after their old station!" K-Hits had been having issues for quite awhile. Some of it may have been the signal, but most of the problem was that the audience of KLDE had gotten too old for advertisers and focusing on a more 70's pop centered playlist just wasn't working. So, when Dean & Rog became available, taking the existing format that wasn't working to classic rock was a no-brainer.

I also don't know where you're getting this idea that most of the classic rock audience is 55+. Last I saw, the average age of a classic rock listener was mid-40's. Classic rock, much like oldies, has moved forward in terms of the music it plays, and you hear very little 60's rock on classic rock stations these days. The difference is that 70's and 80's rock tends to test better than 70's and 80's pop.

 

[sdh483]

WRONG! Cox wanted to go after CC's The Arrow right around when they acquired W&J (yuck!), brought Dean and Rog to 107.5
and created a classic rock format. Classic rock was on this frequency at one time, then flipped to alternative a la "The Buzz," where CC did a frequency swap with KLDE when it was on 94.5. Then those greedy Co(ck)x wanted to take a stab at CC then serve the city of Houston with an oldies station. It had nothing to do with demos being too old. If that was the case, then their current format is too old. Most guys who listen to classic rock are 55+ so that blows your theory out of the water.

I've never seen a single broadcaster say, "Hey! This station is doing great. Let's hire that morning show that just got displaced, change formats, and go after their old station!" K-Hits had been having issues for quite awhile. Some of it may have been the signal, but most of the problem was that the audience of KLDE had gotten too old for advertisers and focusing on a more 70's pop centered playlist just wasn't working. So, when Dean & Rog became available, taking the existing format that wasn't working to classic rock was a no-brainer.

I also don't know where you're getting this idea that most of the classic rock audience is 55+. Last I saw, the average age of a classic rock listener was mid-40's. Classic rock, much like oldies, has moved forward in terms of the music it plays, and you hear very little 60's rock on classic rock stations these days. The difference is that 70's and 80's rock tends to test better than 70's and 80's pop.

What I don't get about your statement is that both classic rock stations in town have quite a bit of 60s rock on their rotation. If they're really moving into 80s rock, they're doing it at a very slow place. There's a ton of 80s rock that has been neglected minus the constant rotation of Don't Stop Beleivin', Pour Some Sugar on Me and Livin' On a Prayer. There's: Van (Hagar) Halen, Night Ranger, Whitesnake, Zebra, Triumph, Queensryche, Tesla, post-Moving Pictures Rush (or more Rush for that matter, not just Tom Sawyer). Maybe if classic rock stations had more of a variety or at least a few album cuts that were big on rock stations during the 70s-80s, I would listen.

By the way, 40 year olds today would shift the time period to include 90s rock, which involves...gasp! grunge!

I'll just enjoy Cool 92.5 out of Beaumont while the weather conditions allow it to blow into the Houston area, then off to KONO land. The Arrow and Eagle can suck it.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Generational chauvinism. "My generations music is best, everything else sucks." You have turned into your parents, who thought that Rock 'n Roll was garbage.

> Except I start liking the music again when we get into the 2000's. Something about the 80's that really zapped the creativity. I personally think it was an over-emphasis on videos at the expense of musical quality.

> That is because licensing fees are much cheaper for old music, which isn't being played much any more. Songwriters and performers are looking for income streams, and are chopping their royalty demands to avoid becoming irrelevant.

Not convinced. Those ad agencies got plenty of money. They pick songs that fit the commercial. And songs everybody loves and recognizes so it will sell the product better. Emphasis on EVERYBODY. People know these songs.

> However the music on many, if not most Oldies stations is now showing a heavy 70's influence, missing the 50's-60's stuff.

A lot of your post sounds like somebody rationalizing not putting a format on the air in Houston that rates very well in all other major cities. I would be defensive if I were trying to justify not programming it to owners who are desperate to make a buck in light of the declining total audience share for radio. This is an obvious hole in Houston formats. No way brokered asian sports preaching liberal talk etc. would have anything close to the audience a true classic rock / oldies station would have.

Advertisers don't care who is listening. They look at ratings.

> Yes they do care who is listening. Otherwise the 6+ overall ratings would actually mean something, and not be given away for free by Arbitron. Advertisers very specifically target different demographics. They aren't going to pay for spillover.

To target specific demographics, yes - but what station in Houston wouldn't kill to have the ratings a KONO, KLUV, KRTH have? Instead they try everything else but oldies / classic hits. Weird.

> I will agree with you there. But then, why did KLDE vanish? Oh, yes--the station felt the demos were too old, as I recall.

BAD and small playlist. They and their successor both didn't know how to do the format. No wonder it didn't rate well. We would need somebody who knows how to do it right.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

> What I don't get about your statement is that both classic rock stations in town have quite a bit of 60s rock on their rotation.

I don't know what the ____ 93.7 / 107.5 are. Neither are classic rock. They play some classic rock songs, but the playlist on both is a train wreck. As bad as it is microscopic. I would love to have a real classic rock station in Houston. But then the usual rules for formats and what works in other cities doesn't seem to apply here. Very weird mix of unusual cobbled together formats. The only reason why some of them rate well is that there are no other choices on the dial.

 

[Kent]

What I don't get about your statement is that both classic rock stations in town have quite a bit of 60s rock on their rotation.

Not so. KGLK and KKRW play no more than two 60's rock songs an hour, at least if yes.com is displaying accurate information.

If they're really moving into 80s rock, they're doing it at a very slow place.

Between 40% and half of their playlists each hour consists of 80's rock songs (again, if yes.com is displaying accurate information).

There's a ton of 80s rock that has been neglected minus the constant rotation of Don't Stop Beleivin', Pour Some Sugar on Me and Livin' On a Prayer. There's: Van (Hagar) Halen, Night Ranger, Whitesnake, Zebra, Triumph, Queensryche, Tesla, post-Moving Pictures Rush (or more Rush for that matter, not just Tom Sawyer). Maybe if classic rock stations had more of a variety or at least a few album cuts that were big on rock stations during the 70s-80s, I would listen.

Those songs test well. That's why they get a ton of airplay!

By the way, 40 year olds today would shift the time period to include 90s rock, which involves...gasp! grunge!

And both stations play roughly one 90's rock song an hour, though both are focusing on early 90's before the grunge era hit, at least so far.

 

[KTN Corp]

But stranger things have been known to happen, like 560 in Beaumont programming to Houston.

Is that why CC divested KKHH and KHMX to CBS? Seems like the FCC said that they owned one-too-many stations in Houston when they figured out KLVI's true market.

Why don't they move KBME's format to KLVI? 790 has such a bad signal in Katy (and Kingwood?) that theyshould to shut it down and move KLVI's transmitter closer to Houston.