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KVI is Oldies
- Thread starter radioguy123
- Start date
Based on many of the posts over the years, when it comes to radio the past is what they wanted it to be, not what it actually was.
gurus comments tend to be right on. I remember radio as I thought it should be growing up in the 80's, not what it was. Many on this board remember radio as they thought it should be in the 60's and 70's. Looking back it was not KJR or KOL that ruled the airwaves. It was KOMO and KVI with their MOR formats and talent that had been there for decades. Pat O'Day was the king of radio as people remember, but it was really Hardwick, French, Nelson who lasted for thirty or more years. O'day was actually on the air for about a decade or two, maybe less. It was KOMO, KVI, KIRO that dominated in revenue and ratings. At one time Nelson and Hardwick had half the listening audience in mornings in Seattle between them.
As I look back on radio growing up it was all about kube and the end in late eighties and nineties as I remember. In fact, the big stations in revenue and ratings were most likely kiro, star, kzok and kmps. I looked up numbers for a project a few years back and in the golden age of grunge and the Seattle sound (1991) the end had an admirable 5 share. kiro and kplz each had ten shares, with kmps not far behind. memories play tricks. guru is right on.
As I look back on radio growing up it was all about kube and the end in late eighties and nineties as I remember. In fact, the big stations in revenue and ratings were most likely kiro, star, kzok and kmps. I looked up numbers for a project a few years back and in the golden age of grunge and the Seattle sound (1991) the end had an admirable 5 share. kiro and kplz each had ten shares, with kmps not far behind. memories play tricks. guru is right on.
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
Pat usually refers to 20-25 share range in heyday -- and when you factor in the occasional "story inflation" that MIGHT be rounded up! So 40 may be attributed to something like "The Canadian Dollar exchange rate" -- don't think it was ever that high!
LITTLEBOYBLUE said:
Maybe 40 was the percentage of vehicles in the Seattle Metro area that sported one of those ugly yellow KJR window stickers... =)
I've been tuning in and out and find the power rotation to tight for my liking. I like Magic Carpet ride but heard it today after hearing it less than 22hrs before. Noon hour today, 2
m hour yesterday.
I like Sister Golden Hair until I heard it for the 9th time today.
Non radio people I'm around like the change, but have commented
to me about hearing the same songs. One said, I like hearing em, just not the same ones everyday.
Jingles sound great, and Charlie Van Dyke is perfect!
It does sound like some tunes are on a wide rotation, I just hope
the powers change once in a while. Like someone posted, while KJR-FM is on Xmas vaction, KVI has a chance to shine.
m hour yesterday.I like Sister Golden Hair until I heard it for the 9th time today.
Non radio people I'm around like the change, but have commented
to me about hearing the same songs. One said, I like hearing em, just not the same ones everyday.
Jingles sound great, and Charlie Van Dyke is perfect!
It does sound like some tunes are on a wide rotation, I just hope
the powers change once in a while. Like someone posted, while KJR-FM is on Xmas vaction, KVI has a chance to shine.
I listen quite a bit and certain songs seem to play everyday at a different time so the 22 hours comment seems right. Seems a bit broader than kjr-fm which plays Rockin Me by Steve Miller and others every 8-10 hours. I find KVI listenable, but do hear some songs a lot. What is a normal rotation for powers on an Oldies station and does that apply on the AM dial? I actually wonder if KVI can survive with a 22 hour rotation on powers? Doesn't arbitron say the average listener only spends 20-40 minutes a day with their favorite station? When I was in LA a few months back Kearth played its powers about every eight hours. Tough call. Do you please fans that listen all the time or those who listen in and out. Age old radio problem for any format really. Any armchair PD's who know oldies have the answer?Guru, AQH? srp? LBB? What is the right balance?
For as much as some on this board would cringe at the thought, KVI, or for that matter any station going after an oldies demo are going to have to play it safe and stick with a fairly researched 'safe-list' for a while. Even with throwing in an occasional 'wow factor' artist to give the appearance of freshening-up, their power rotation songs will probably need to be at least six to eight hours.
As with most format flips, they can expect a good sampling bump for the first month or so, then things will settle into the numbers for the long haul with this format. After the dust settles with a four to six month rolling average under their belt, then their programming folks or consultants can determine any mid-course corrections to the playlist.
Doing the "IPod shuffle" as some suggest and as with KMCQ, would be a total disaster on an AM station like KVI. At this stage of the game, KVI would probably be happy with any full quarter hour sampling. Going nuts with big era swings song to song would kill any hopes of a chance at TSL.
As with most format flips, they can expect a good sampling bump for the first month or so, then things will settle into the numbers for the long haul with this format. After the dust settles with a four to six month rolling average under their belt, then their programming folks or consultants can determine any mid-course corrections to the playlist.
Doing the "IPod shuffle" as some suggest and as with KMCQ, would be a total disaster on an AM station like KVI. At this stage of the game, KVI would probably be happy with any full quarter hour sampling. Going nuts with big era swings song to song would kill any hopes of a chance at TSL.
I understand the rotation. I just hope the P1's get moved to P2's more often than every quarter.(3 months) Also get a little better day to day separation.
I've hear KVI heard in a fairly large grocery store already. Suprised me they would be playing a AM station.
Sounds to me like a playlist of about 500.
How many did KBSG play?
I was told the original KVI format had in and out of rotation about 1500 to 2000. (too many)
I've hear KVI heard in a fairly large grocery store already. Suprised me they would be playing a AM station.
Sounds to me like a playlist of about 500.
How many did KBSG play?
I was told the original KVI format had in and out of rotation about 1500 to 2000. (too many)
dunno said:
Perhaps but it sure made for a better listening experience. I listened to them almost constantly back then but maybe I was alone; I don't know how they did in the ratings. My only sore spot with them was their over-reliance on Bobby Vee and a few other artists that were, to be generous, quasi-rock & roll. Give me straight-up pop or bubblegum over that stuff anytime, though rock & soul are my core favorites.
It seems you could easily go 10 to 12 songs deep on your core artists, deeper for superstar acts like The Beatles, Stones, Supremes and Elton John. With that approach, you could comfortably hit 1500 and still remain familiar enough for those just punching in for their 15-minute commute.
dunno said:
that's high. Was about 500+ at any given time; though there were windows when we tried a different slant (i.e. leaning more "middle of road" -- what KIXI did a few years ago). But generally two power categories...fill from 60's, fill from 70's ... and slotted clock spots for 50's, Elvis, Beatles.
If a station, particularly one on AM is going to draw listeners to their station, they had better damned well have an innovative playlist or the station is going to be a failure! I think 2,000 titles should be the bare minimum. I think that there are some songs which may not test well for familiarity but may test well for appeal that should be included!David1960 said:
I'll confess that was my doing! I was responding to another's post an example of a station which dropped Rush that was still thriving despite his departure from that station; and also to point out that the station in question featured virtually no syndicated programming.radioguy123 said:
there is gurus genius advice, the same old tired, worn out corporate peon protocol that will burn out KVI listenership and its AM oldies music within a year or two. then guru(the TV and radio one) can gloat that music on AM dont work, and AM is dead. if KVI/fisher wants to make something lasting of itself, and secure a passionate TSL listener base, the same ol' 500 song researched playlist over and over again aint gonna cut it. friends, and listeners, any good programmer should have the talent, and knowledge, of what and when to mix in addition to that old familiar 500 song oldies list thats been played out in every market for the last 2 or 3 decades. this can be accomplished with a custom music clock, and day-parting, during the prime listener times. there is a s**t load of memory whiplash top 40 hits just waiting to be reintroduced, and rerotated again, for the people who grew up listening to them on the AM radio. does scott (an arm chair) need to make a list for the clueless (big chairs)?..............TVradioguru said:
no, scott doesn't need to make a list for the clueless, or write in third person, or rail against the guru. scott should just drive truck and listen to his xm radio because scott don't know jack about programming a radio station. if scott did know jack about programming radio he'd know that the tighter the playlist the higher the tsl. this has proven to be effective since marconi invented radio. if scott knew about radio programming he'd also know that "oh wow" songs become "oh no" songs very quickly. and he'd remember how well kjr fm did (or actually how well they didn't do) around 2002 when they tried playing everything they could get their hands on. no, scott's ideas are like a dog that won't hunt.
Contrary to what SRP thinks, I think you hit the nail right on the proverbial head here! KYAA (1200kHz) http://www.am1200kya.com/in Monterey, California has about a 2,000 title playlist. Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but if you have a non-conventional format on AM - especially music, you had better have a damned good reason for people to tune in; and the same old same old, ain't gonna cut it!scott salvatori said:
I say Amen to that!
Successful classic rock or oldies formats left all run a rotational playlist total of around 600 songs. They may move a block of 30-50 or so in and out over a month, but well tested power songs grab and hold TSL the longest. Even XM/Sirius limit their playlists on just about any format to around that number. Ultimately you're doing your job correctly if you lightly freshen up the rotation by creating off-line sub rotations on a select few categories, giving the impression that the playlist is longer.
As SRP and I have attempted to educate the clearly non-radio literate, wide era switches and too many odd, untested-unfamiliar songs drive TSL down and tune-out up. Holding quarted hour TSL on a mono AM station will be difficult enough, the last thing you'll want to do is gamble with a bunch of one hit wonders, disco, or too far into AOR categories. Once you lose a listener by playing a song that they have strong feelings against, or think its weird, they won't be back. This is backed up by years of music research and audience testing.
As SRP and I have attempted to educate the clearly non-radio literate, wide era switches and too many odd, untested-unfamiliar songs drive TSL down and tune-out up. Holding quarted hour TSL on a mono AM station will be difficult enough, the last thing you'll want to do is gamble with a bunch of one hit wonders, disco, or too far into AOR categories. Once you lose a listener by playing a song that they have strong feelings against, or think its weird, they won't be back. This is backed up by years of music research and audience testing.
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