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FatRadioGuy

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Now that Andy Skotdal has the green light to proceed with AM1520 in Snohomish at 50,000 watts what should he put on it? KRKO with 35kday and 50 night will stay sports with Dan Patrick, Jim Rome, etc nationally and the Fish locally, but what to do with a clean slate that comes on the air this summer?
 
I've posted this before...I'd like to see them be North Sound "Full Service" from something like 6a-6p (maybe 7p). Rest of time could be sports ... possibly sharing content with KHHO & KJR (see related thread on that). Sports lends itself well to Aquasox evening & weekends...possible STORM affiliate, etc.
 
LITTLEBOYBLUE said:
I've posted this before...I'd like to see them be North Sound "Full Service" from something like 6a-6p (maybe 7p). Rest of time could be sports ... possibly sharing content with KHHO & KJR (see related thread on that). Sports lends itself well to Aquasox evening & weekends...possible STORM affiliate, etc.

With the blast from KGDD out of Portland, I'd be surprised if anyone could pick them up in Seattle.

No more talk.....I wanna rock!.....
 
Bongwater said:
No more talk.....I wanna rock!.....
Now there's a sound business suggestion. Imagine a new AM signal signing on at the high end of the dial in the year 2009 to play Rock.

With a death wish maybe.
 
From the Seattle P-I, give Pat O'Day his station and stream it online.

I'd listen to a station that had short, frequent breaks... and PPM research seems to back that up.

But, unfortunately, it also backs up the "six breaks are fine, 80+% of the audience is still with us" mentality.

An O'Day station would have a library of about 1,500 songs, played in sets of three that are paced from slowest to fastest tempo, with commercials distributed through the hour rather than stacked in blocks, and a newscast every hour.

Most of all, he says, the station would feature DJs who through talent and personality can connect with an audience and build the "theater of the mind" O'Day says is crucial.

And AQH and the like... I know you think O'Day isn't so great, washed up, whatever... but I know we sell commercials on 'theater of the mind' so what's wrong with building the entire listening experience around it? Isn't that part of why public radio 'information' programming is popular?
 
ronrob said:
Bongwater said:
No more talk.....I wanna rock!.....
Now there's a sound business suggestion. Imagine a new AM signal signing on at the high end of the dial in the year 2009 to play Rock.

With a death wish maybe.

Radio has a death wish anyway - especially THIS STATION. An AM station in the year 2009.

Why not just have fun with it? Or has everybody lost their ability to at least imagine having fun?.......
 
SeattleObserver said:
And AQH and the like... I know you think O'Day isn't so great, washed up, whatever... but I know we sell commercials on 'theater of the mind' so what's wrong with building the entire listening experience around it? Isn't that part of why public radio 'information' programming is popular?

Just to clarify, I thought O'Day was great back in his day.

It's his license, he can do whatever he wants by putting on Pat O'Day, regional news, or the sound of yaks farting for all I care. But he couldn't pick a worse time to get in on radio, especially AM. Waxing nostalgic, especially in a region where few remember DJs from 40 years ago, and having the brand of "fun" people on this board want, won't pay the bills. If you think the big boys are having a difficult time making money, the two-dollar spots for Aunt Millie's Sewing Machine Repair Shop ain't gonna pay the power bill for a 50kw directional signal.
 
There are two excellent options for this station based on financial parameter success in other markets:

1. Sports
The PPM is very kind to sports and a third sportstalker in Seattle can generate numbers if the morning show is local and you pick prime syndicated talk during the day. There are many available. At night they opt to do the high school game of the week covering football and basketball. You will create revenue and a following. Multiple examples of this approach in markets like Dallas, Atlanta, Denver and LA.

2. Oldies
There are a number of Cruisin Oldies AM stations or True Oldies stations. The key is to bring back some of the heritage Oldies talent and be highly local. Successful examples in Tampa, San Diego, Dallas and LA. Huge financial successes.

Both of these formats will not deliver huge ratings on the AM dial, but will create loyal followings and cash-flow, plus serve a niche in the community in my humble opinion.
 
I agree. I think an AM oldies station would be popular, especially if veteran NW DJs were hired on. I don't know where you get the idea that most people here wouldn't remember these guys. Sure, there are many new residents living here now, but most have not moved away. Everyone I know has lived here their entire lives and remember the glory days of AM Top 40 stations like KJR, KING and KOL. I think it would be great if this station went oldies or for that matter, switch KJR AM to an oldies station playing the Top 40 hits of the era. The songs that made that station #1 in Seattle in the 60s and 70s.
 
This might be out of the box but I'm serious about this, this is not a spoof. First, he'd need to wrestle Coast to Coast AM from KVI which shouldn't be hard. I'd then rebrand the station Paranoia1520 and program the M-F lineup as follows:

6:00AM - Siegel and Weissbach (Mike Siegel & Pete Weissbach) - Local
7:00 - Siegel and Weissbach (Mike Siegel & Pete Weissbach) - Local
8:00 - Siegel and Weissbach (Mike Siegel & Pete Weissbach) - Local
9:00 - Alex Jones Show - GCN
11:00 - Alex Jones Show - GCN
12:00PM - Alex Jones Show - GCN
1:00 - Alex Jones Show - GCN
2:00 - Dr. Katherine Albrecht - GCN
3:00 - Dr. Katherine Albrecht - GCN
4:00 - Politics & Religion (R) - USA Radio
5:00 - Laura Lee - Local
6:00 - Laura Lee - Local
7:00 - Jeff Rense - GCN
8:00 - Jeff Rense - GCN
9:00 - Jeff Rense - GCN
10:00 - Coast to Coast AM - Premier Radio
11:00 - Coast to Coast AM - Premier Radio
12:00AM - Coast to Coast AM - Premier Radio
1:00 - Coast to Coast AM - Premier Radio
2:00 - Coast to Coast AM (R) - Premier Radio
3:00 - Coast to Coast AM (R) - Premier Radio
4:00 - Coast to Coast AM (R) - Premier Radio
5:00 - Coast to Coast AM (R) - Premier Radio

I'm not posting this to get a laugh, I really think a station niched-out like this could get enough of a following to pay for the minimal expense it would incur with only 5 hours local programming plus make a healthy profit. From a marketing perspective, you'd have a huge audience sell-in of oddity seekers and curious lookey-loos. Imagine what a clever billboard campaign a sufficiently creative ad agency could come up with for Paranoia1520? Plus the media exposure --- it would be a sure fire hit. Actually, I have a couple step-up ideas but I'm going to avoid posting because I don't think this board will appreciate even this one ... :(
 
LITTLEBOYBLUE said:
I've posted this before...I'd like to see them be North Sound "Full Service" from something like 6a-6p (maybe 7p). Rest of time could be sports ... possibly sharing content with KHHO & KJR (see related thread on that). Sports lends itself well to Aquasox evening & weekends...possible STORM affiliate, etc.

Isn't there already enough sports on the dial with KRKO, KJR, KHHO, and the new KIRO sports 710? The full service idea would be good, maybe modeled on the FM KIRO format. Lots of news and traffic during drivetime, and some good talk shows with a progressive leaning. Already too much conservative talk. What we really need is a station to carry Blazers games now that the Sonics are gone.
 
AQH said:
SeattleObserver said:
And AQH and the like... I know you think O'Day isn't so great, washed up, whatever... but I know we sell commercials on 'theater of the mind' so what's wrong with building the entire listening experience around it? Isn't that part of why public radio 'information' programming is popular?

Just to clarify, I thought O'Day was great back in his day.

It's his license, he can do whatever he wants by putting on Pat O'Day, regional news, or the sound of yaks farting for all I care. But he couldn't pick a worse time to get in on radio, especially AM. Waxing nostalgic, especially in a region where few remember DJs from 40 years ago, and having the brand of "fun" people on this board want, won't pay the bills. If you think the big boys are having a difficult time making money, the two-dollar spots for Aunt Millie's Sewing Machine Repair Shop ain't gonna pay the power bill for a 50kw directional signal.

According to the great AQH, all stations have to have the same format to make money. You know what? Maybe if some station was really different they could make money on the fact they are different. And if the station does end up struggling they can always air some Coke-U-10 or co enzyme ke-U-10 infomercials, or purity products, or Dan Tullis and Joel Clark, or Attorney Bill Handel, or the internet speedway, or Hayes Barnerd.
 
kyliebastel said:
First, he'd need to wrestle Coast to Coast AM from KVI which shouldn't be hard.

Really?? And if you were running an end-of-the dial AM that only plays to some of Snohomish and Skagit Counties, how would you convince Premier Radio Networkd to move Coast to Coast from a Seattle Tacoma DMA station? You said it wouldn't be hard, tell us all how it could be done.

kyliebastel said:
I'm not posting this to get a laugh, I really think a station niched-out like this could get enough of a following to pay for the minimal expense it would incur with only 5 hours local programming plus make a healthy profit.

Well I for one found your post amusing. Since you seem to be up on the cost of running a 50kW directional AM station, tell us what the annual minimal revenue model would be to run a station like this. How much would you pay your local talent? Would you also need several producer/board ops? What are your estimated operational expenses? Since a great deal of the programming you're proposing is syndicated, where do you make your money to cover expenses with so much inventory tied up with barter?
 
Grindlfan said:
I agree. I think an AM oldies station would be popular, especially if veteran NW DJs were hired on. I don't know where you get the idea that most people here wouldn't remember these guys. Sure, there are many new residents living here now, but most have not moved away. Everyone I know has lived here their entire lives and remember the glory days of AM Top 40 stations like KJR, KING and KOL. I think it would be great if this station went oldies or for that matter, switch KJR AM to an oldies station playing the Top 40 hits of the era. The songs that made that station #1 in Seattle in the 60s and 70s.

Interesting.. But since this station won't have a full market signal, how many listeners or business in a tough economy in Snohomish and Skagit County would support an oldies AM station?

I'll ask you the same question as a previous post... If you had live talent consisting of old DJ's that a select few remember, how much would you pay them? Or would you ask them to work for free?

What do you think the percentage is of listeners/residents in Snohomish and Skagit County were in the area during the 60's and 70's, let alone that heard or care about the old DJ's formerly of the Seattle airwaves?

Taking all this into consideration, what sort of margin do you think a station as you suggest would command? Or would this be one of Bong's fantasies of a sucessful station that loses money and who cares how much it costs to run and how many listeners it had? :D
 
With the blast from KGDD out of Portland, I'd be surprised if anyone could pick them up in Seattle.

[/quote]

Hey, folks, I've got to agree with Bongwater on the signal issue. Anybody who actually listens to the AM dial in the evening, heck even in the afternoon, can hear that AM1520 from Portland is directionalized straight at Snohomish County, and it skips in stronger than many of the nearby Seattle signals. Without a clear signal, why waste the wattage trying to override it and have another AM1090 type of issue with nighttime interference? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad KPTK is there, and wish the new station well, but the background chatter (from Tijuana, I know -- it's complicated) is a pain when you're a few miles outside the main signal area, and certainly is an issue in attracting listeners and advertisers. Hence, you have to try even harder.

As great as it would be to hear someone try a full-service or personality format, and to bring the first real local service to Snohomish County (the two stations that air Korean and all-sports are kinda specialized, so I don't think most people even know they're even there) - I fear if it goes on it's just yet another case of new signals that work out for the FCC on paper, but in reality just muck up the interference on the dial ever further.

Wanna bet they end up with time brokered foreign language programming as a last resort? Anyone on the list who speaks Urdu, perchance? (At least that would be one ethnic outlet not controlled by right wing fundamentalists.)

Yeah, I used to work in major and medium market sububan local radio, too, and you could write a sitcom with the characters that got on the air and called in when you provided a mix of local programming that no one else offered. Sure beats the rest of the AM stations that almost no one listens to anymore-- probably because their programming is irrelevant, at best. (Come on, just how are a dozen neo-confederate stations serving the "public interest" in a market with the demographics and political leanings of Seattle? Are they all missionaries for the GOP?)

In case any naysayers have forgotten, public service did make a good profit at many 'hometown' stations that had a clear signal in their targeted counties. Too bad the only "players" allowed on the field now are mega corporations who can't seem to see just how much their never ending demands for deregulation has actually ruined their own industry. Our own industry, actually - whether you work in the field or not, the airwaves still belong to the public. I(And if you're scoffing at that idea, then why are commercial radio corporations still complaining they still can't make money controlling nearly every signal on the dial? Maybe it's time to give someone else a chance with those signals to attract an audience and serve them with relevant and interesting programming. I'd enjoy hearing what the radio guys on this list think is missing from the Seattle market - whether or not it's a tried and true "hit" format in the rapidly deflating commercial radio sphere.)

Thanks for listening,

-- Goldilocks
 
And if you were running an end-of-the dial AM that only plays to some of Snohomish and Skagit Counties, how would you convince Premier Radio Networkd to move Coast to Coast from a Seattle Tacoma DMA station?

1 - KKOL would take C2C in a heartbeat to hit the south sound. C2C co-positions in many other markets in other parts of the country so this would not be a foreign arrangement to them. KKOL and AM1520 will have non-overlapping coverage areas. This should be a fairly easy strategic arrangement to set-up.

2 - KVI has officially become a bottom feeder station on death watch; there is no brand benefit left to being on KVI. The anecdotal fact that C2C is now being actively promoted as their gold medal product is proof enough - they used to be the ugly step-cousin in the closet (and are on most other stations that carry them). Now they're running George Noory localized liners during Kirby's show and contests for George Noory appearances that aren't even in Seattle ... i.e. Vancouver!

3 - KVI is currently only carrying 49 of 60 available hours of C2C products. AM1520 would need the full nightly rebroadcast plus Art Bell's weekend worst-of, bringing them to the full 60.

Since you seem to be ...

I'm obviously not going to attach spreadsheets for a simple message board discussion but I'll just note that the logic of your post would indicate that all of the many AM stations that have become simple repeaters for network broadcasts (see KKOL, above) - and the many more, that - daily - dump local talent to follow that route - should all be out of business.

Local talent is a foolish indulgence. Unless you have prestige position, you just need two weekday locals to support sales. Any station that doesn't dump the rest of their local talent is moronic. Radio is dying; the key is to soak as much money as possible before the airwaves get repurposed for emergent technology. At this time, short-term planning is best-term planning. Stations that try to "lay the groundwork" for anything more than 15 years out, max, are being run by dinosaurs and the wistfully nostalgic.
 
15 years

Actually, that might be a bit optimistic. I expect we'll start hearing talk around 2013 or 2014 about the need to vacate the radio waves to allow SPS transmission for energy distribution. Maybe another 5 to complete the shutdown of broadcast stations? Might be overly optimistic but with recent JAXA developments in Japan I'm thinking it'll probably sneak up on everyone.

Then again, who knows, radio stations might be able to putter along for another 2 decades ... though that seems just a ridiculously optimistic prediction --- would be like me making a similar prediction about the future of the typewriter in 1990! ACK! It's too early ... I must be a little sleepy still - "2 decades" ... LOL! :p
 
kyliebastel said:
1 - KKOL would take C2C in a heartbeat to hit the south sound. C2C co-positions in many other markets in other parts of the country so this would not be a foreign arrangement to them. KKOL and AM1520 will have non-overlapping coverage areas. This should be a fairly easy strategic arrangement to set-up.

2 - KVI has officially become a bottom feeder station on death watch; there is no brand benefit left to being on KVI. The anecdotal fact that C2C is now being actively promoted as their gold medal product is proof enough - they used to be the ugly step-cousin in the closet (and are on most other stations that carry them). Now they're running George Noory localized liners during Kirby's show and contests for George Noory appearances that aren't even in Seattle ... i.e. Vancouver!

3 - KVI is currently only carrying 49 of 60 available hours of C2C products. AM1520 would need the full nightly rebroadcast plus Art Bell's weekend worst-of, bringing them to the full 60.

Since you seem to be ...

I'm obviously not going to attach spreadsheets for a simple message board discussion but I'll just note that the logic of your post would indicate that all of the many AM stations that have become simple repeaters for network broadcasts (see KKOL, above) - and the many more, that - daily - dump local talent to follow that route - should all be out of business.

Local talent is a foolish indulgence. Unless you have prestige position, you just need two weekday locals to support sales. Any station that doesn't dump the rest of their local talent is moronic. Radio is dying; the key is to soak as much money as possible before the airwaves get repurposed for emergent technology. At this time, short-term planning is best-term planning. Stations that try to "lay the groundwork" for anything more than 15 years out, max, are being run by dinosaurs and the wistfully nostalgic.

You really didn't answer my questions... So if I were the West Coast Manager for Premier, I would be anxious to remove Coast to Coast off a long-established full market signal on the coveted low end of the band that carries not only the whole nightly live broadcast plus nightly replays, and place it on two signals of two separate owned stations that can't be heard at night in Seattle? Really??

Secondly, I wasn't asking to see spreadsheets of your business plan, but a general overview for discussion. I'll take a quick stab at something to break the ice:

Operating expenses... Rent or mortgage for office space: Minimm $5,000.00 a month, (assuming expansion of existing space would be required)

Utilities for transmitter site only: Around $10,000.00 a month.

1-C+ Talent to host your daily show: $150,000.00 annually, (12,500.00 per month), plus full medical and dental, (add 20% to employee expense)

Producer/board op... $2,500.00 per month.

Promotions expenses... Even if you split your promotions department expense between your two stations, let's assume for this discussion: $100,000.00 per year, $8,000.00 per month.

Capital equipment leases or loans... $500,000.00 over a 5 years term, and with interest your monhly payment would be approximately $16,000.00 per month.

I could go on and on with more detail, but it looks to me that just to break even, one would need to clear around $50K a month.

Many small market FM stations right now are clearing $15-20,000 a month, but to even your point, AM listening is declining and this station is a start-up with no cash flow nor an established client base. So assuming that number is cut in half for at least the first full year, one could assme a station like this would be bringing in revenue of approximately $10,000.00 a month with $50,000.00 a month in expenses. Oh, and remember too that your advertisers consist of small business only in two counties during an extreme economic decline.

In summary; unless your name is Bongwater, its quite easy to see that your plan, or any plan for this station would be quite the money-loser.
 
Mack Daddy said:
According to the great AQH, all stations have to have the same format to make money.

Mr. AQH will suffice. Thanks.

By the way, where did I say that thing about formats?
 
You really didn't answer my questions...

Hmmm ... I think I did, it's just that you find the answers personally disagreeable. Don't you agree? I'm sure you do.

However, I will simply note that you're just factually wrong. The nighttime coverage area for KKOL + AM1520 in combination hits all of Seattle ... a sliver of Bellevue would have difficult reception; the previously stated 19% increase in sellable air time would make-up for a 9% audience loss in an area with a secondary demographic [C2C attracts a generally less educated, generally less affluent audience than average].

Secondly, I wasn't asking to see spreadsheets of your business plan, but a general overview for discussion.

You didn't answer my question about the fundamental flaw in your hypothesis of the ability of a non-locally staffed station to be financially viable. The only assumption I've made is an assumption of adequate capitalization. Any assumption to the contrary is sophistic to the discussion in general as it's a necessity regardless of format. It would rather be a waste of board space for me to entertain an explanation of your slightly off-kilter argument just to smooth out your ruffled feathers, disturbed as they seem to be at the notion that local talent are a buzzkill. Don't you agree? I'm sure you do.

In other words, you answer me, I'll answer you. This is how a discussion works. The other way is how an interrogation works. Don't you agree? I'm sure you do.
 
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