I'm betting 106.5 was still billing. Switching to a simulcast WOULD cost them a million or two or whatever the billing was. You can't double the rates overnight just because you've added a simulcast. You would expect to take a loss for at least a year. With a new music format you could save a significant portion of your current billing.
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MIX 106.5 Stunting
- Thread starter Morpheux
- Start date
It also depends on how WTAM is doing in specific demos.
Don't forget that CC still owns the W282BN/100.3 translator, which - depending on what dial position it lands at - would be an nifty inner-city FM relay for WTAM (and/or eventually housing an HD-2 format for additional $$$).
** If WTAM did go on FM, it would have to be a full-time simulcast, otherwise ratings would have to list 1100 and 106.5 separately. WMMS still exists to air all spillover games. And all three stations conceivably could carry the Browns rights (in Cincinnati, the Bengals rights are split between WLW/700, WEBN/102.7 and WCKY/1530, with WEBN designated as the flagship).
** A second-tier talk station wouldn't work, even with Hannity available (plus Sean has moderate coverage in parts of the market on WEOL/930 and WHLO/640).
** A sports station would make up for the lost revenue. In droves. But there's a big-time catch... 106.5 would have to be all-local or close to it. Rome could be stolen away from WKNR in a heartbeat, no thanks to CC/Premiere. And the emergence of a sports format - on a signal that wouldn't be a rumor in Lorain County at nighttime - would be crippling to WKNR in both ratings and revenue. But CC would have to make a significant amount of investment into hiring local talent for mornings, middays, afternoons and evenings. Even with the PBP contracts, it's almost totally unrealistic.
My personal wish? You bet.
Don't forget that CC still owns the W282BN/100.3 translator, which - depending on what dial position it lands at - would be an nifty inner-city FM relay for WTAM (and/or eventually housing an HD-2 format for additional $$$).
** If WTAM did go on FM, it would have to be a full-time simulcast, otherwise ratings would have to list 1100 and 106.5 separately. WMMS still exists to air all spillover games. And all three stations conceivably could carry the Browns rights (in Cincinnati, the Bengals rights are split between WLW/700, WEBN/102.7 and WCKY/1530, with WEBN designated as the flagship).
** A second-tier talk station wouldn't work, even with Hannity available (plus Sean has moderate coverage in parts of the market on WEOL/930 and WHLO/640).
** A sports station would make up for the lost revenue. In droves. But there's a big-time catch... 106.5 would have to be all-local or close to it. Rome could be stolen away from WKNR in a heartbeat, no thanks to CC/Premiere. And the emergence of a sports format - on a signal that wouldn't be a rumor in Lorain County at nighttime - would be crippling to WKNR in both ratings and revenue. But CC would have to make a significant amount of investment into hiring local talent for mornings, middays, afternoons and evenings. Even with the PBP contracts, it's almost totally unrealistic.
My personal wish? You bet.
OhioMediaWatch said:
This is cool... The all mighty OMW is finally taking a stand on a format and joining the GenX bandwagon, at least for now.
When Alternative 106.7 in Columbus changed to GenX a few months ago, they did not do any stunting. Any reasons why a station would NOT do any stunting during a format change and just blow up a station in a heartbeat? Maybe they didn't want the competition to have any time to speculate what their new format would be? ???
For me, it's no fun if you can't have any time to speculate about a radio format change.
Nathan Obral, I think you are doing an excellent job in figuring out and explaining why 106.5 may or may not do a particular format.
Many big-time AM talkers have big 12+ numbers. But, when you look at specific demographic cells, many of these stations are very, very top-heavy in listeners over age 45.
That doesn't fit well into national and regional ad agency demo requirements of 25-54 adults.
What a potential WTAM-FM would run middays is anybody's guess. But, since most adults watch TV at night, and overnight listening is generally 25% or less of 6am-7pm cume...they'd really only have to worry about 9am-3pm. Premier has enough programming to cover that time period. And, Bob Franz could cover one of the 2 3-hour shifts.
Hey, maybe it'll be a music format. I'm by no means a talk radio lover. Playing cool, different music would be interesting. But, does being just another music station shooting for 25-34 or 35-44 make THAT much more money for CC? Maybe in a market with a younger population. Maybe in 2020...but now? In older northeastern Ohio?
That doesn't fit well into national and regional ad agency demo requirements of 25-54 adults.
What a potential WTAM-FM would run middays is anybody's guess. But, since most adults watch TV at night, and overnight listening is generally 25% or less of 6am-7pm cume...they'd really only have to worry about 9am-3pm. Premier has enough programming to cover that time period. And, Bob Franz could cover one of the 2 3-hour shifts.
Hey, maybe it'll be a music format. I'm by no means a talk radio lover. Playing cool, different music would be interesting. But, does being just another music station shooting for 25-34 or 35-44 make THAT much more money for CC? Maybe in a market with a younger population. Maybe in 2020...but now? In older northeastern Ohio?
"In 3 days, 11 hours, and 42 minutes, Cleveland radio takes a turn for the better" or something very similar, I just heard after a long block of commercials as I just tuned in. May be 5 days, I was unprepared to hear that. Now playing "We are the world".
update:
Just heard it again "New year, new station, in 4 days, 11 hours, and 30 minutes, Cleveland radio changes for the better". I heard some Dylan, but no polkas yet, LOL.
update:
Just heard it again "New year, new station, in 4 days, 11 hours, and 30 minutes, Cleveland radio changes for the better". I heard some Dylan, but no polkas yet, LOL.
gabigley1 said:
Remember that when 106.7 moved to Dublin from its' longtime Marion perch (as WMRN/106.9), the signal stunted for a period as "Television 106.7," playing nothing but TV show themes.
Obviously that was a cute play on words, as "Television 106.7" segued into the modern rock "Radio 106.7."
But nothing will ever top the pranks pulled by the CC Akron/Canton cluster when the 101.7 facility became a Canton move-in back in 2006. (Remember the infamous faux "101.7 The Bull" website?)
How would a straight simulcast of WTAM be "Cleveland radio taking a turn for the better"? To the ears of average listeners, that would be a big letdown. They would expect more.
I am betting on an all-sports FM format for 106.5. There are already all-sports FMs in Pittsburgh, Boston, Baltimore, etc. KDKA-FM, WBZ-FM, all designed to steal the mojo of the big AM without taking the big AM all-sports.
I can see Triv simulcast on AM and FM, and most of the play-by-play simulcasted as well. But the rest of the day, WTAM would keep their tabloid "news-talk" format.
Gen-X? I don't see it. 92 isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
I can see Triv simulcast on AM and FM, and most of the play-by-play simulcasted as well. But the rest of the day, WTAM would keep their tabloid "news-talk" format.
Gen-X? I don't see it. 92 isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
The fact that WMVX's PD was not shown the door along with the two DJ's leads me to beleive that 106,5 will stick with some kind of music format and not switch to a WTAM simulcast or some other form of sports or talk. Even with lackluster ratings, Mix was billing several million dollars a year. Put that into a simulcast and those dollars largely go away in the short term. A Gen-X format doesn't cost much more than a simulcast... and you still have a revenue stream. The station might lose a few accounts, but a flip from HAC to, say Gen-X isn't that much of a stretch. If, the new format doesn't dain some traction in a year or so, then maybe a flip to sports or talk might make sense then. Anything's possible, but I'm doubling down on Gen-X.
What's curious about music formats like Gen X or "light" alternative (etc.) is...both WMMS & 92.3 are mostly or all talk in drive times.
Why is that? Why not just play music that appeals to adults 25-34 if it's in so much demand?
Again....I don't like talk radio. I'm just trying to figure this from a business standpoint....as that's what I would assume is what Clear Channel is all about.
Could it be that CC see's WTAM's younger demos eroding and they want to stop the bleeding? I guess it depends on what type of future CC believes talk has in Cleveland.
Cleveland is a pretty old market. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
Why is that? Why not just play music that appeals to adults 25-34 if it's in so much demand?
Again....I don't like talk radio. I'm just trying to figure this from a business standpoint....as that's what I would assume is what Clear Channel is all about.
Could it be that CC see's WTAM's younger demos eroding and they want to stop the bleeding? I guess it depends on what type of future CC believes talk has in Cleveland.
Cleveland is a pretty old market. That's not an opinion...it's a fact.
My speculation is that CC will decide to do the decent thing and rehire all those they dumped over the years.
5:30-10:00 Brian and Joe
10-3:00 Scott Howitt
3:00-7:00 Danny Wright
7:00 to Midnight Paul Rado and Marty Allen
Midnight to 5:30am The best of Jerry Springer, 5-1/2 hours of dead air.
Truly a "mixed" format.
5:30-10:00 Brian and Joe
10-3:00 Scott Howitt
3:00-7:00 Danny Wright
7:00 to Midnight Paul Rado and Marty Allen
Midnight to 5:30am The best of Jerry Springer, 5-1/2 hours of dead air.
Truly a "mixed" format.
Tim said:
92.3 is actually music with no personalities whatsoever. They've done away with personality-oriented rock radio since late November 2008. "Radio 92.3" is still going strong with no DJs, despite a few liners telling listeners to text or go online to win prizes, not to mention Inner Sanctum.
As for 106.5, I've been hearing a crazy mix of EVERYTHING. Pretty interesting so far. Who knows what they're flipping to, whether its music or talk. We shall see on Monday.
I will say that letting Daune Robinson and Jay Hudson go is pretty much the final nails in the Mix coffin that started when Brian and Joe were let go in 2009. The station has had a roller coaster track record with DJ's, PD's, and any variation of Hot AC and 80's music. Mix was also likely to blow up for the past several years. It has seen better days.
Fact: CC Cleveland had the opportunity to add a second spoken-word format to its roster a few years back, on what would instantly have been the second-best AM signal in the market after 1100.
Fact: Local management at CC Cleveland chose not to pursue that move (much to the relief of the people of greater Wheeling), and they chose not to pursue that move because they didn't think a second spoken-word station would be a money-maker.
Reasonably Informed Speculation: CC Cleveland still doesn't have a second spoken-word format that would be a significant money-maker. Fox Sports Radio ("Superstation KLAC," if you're Nate) ain't it, for sure. So if WTAM moves to 106.5, there's no money-maker to slide over to 1100 to replace it. This is a different scenario from, for instance, Bonneville's AM-to-FM moves - in Phoenix, they had a sports AM on a lousy signal that was able to upgrade to KTAR's former 620 spot; in Seattle, they snagged the ESPN Radio affiliation for KIRO's 710; in DC, they had the niche (but very profitable) Federal News Radio to upgrade to WTOP's old 1500.
General Observation: The urgency to move AM talkers to FM is strongest in markets that either (a) skew young (with fewer listeners even sampling AM); (b) have FM talk competition (Pittsburgh!), or (c) have no usable full-market AM signals (Washington, Atlanta). Cleveland (a) skews old, with listeners set in their ways and accustomed to tuning to 1100; (b) has no FM talk competition; and (c) has at least 1100 as a usable full-market AM, with 850 and 1220 high up on the "signal-respectability-o-meter."
Specific Observation: Compared to other big broadcasters, CC has been especially cautious about moving its AMs to FMs unless and until it's a screaming necessity. Here's the math: Can a WTAM simulcast on AM and FM (full or partial) produce enough revenue to exceed what's now being produced by WTAM on AM and WMVX on FM combined, or what would be produced by WTAM on AM and a "Gen-X" on FM combined? Is there reason to believe that demographic trends will make WTAM unviable on AM in the short term?
Reasonably Informed Conclusion: There's not going to be a WTAM-FM, and 106.5 will emerge with some sort of music format.
More Speculation: OMW's going to quote this on the Mighty Blog at some point soon...
Fact: Local management at CC Cleveland chose not to pursue that move (much to the relief of the people of greater Wheeling), and they chose not to pursue that move because they didn't think a second spoken-word station would be a money-maker.
Reasonably Informed Speculation: CC Cleveland still doesn't have a second spoken-word format that would be a significant money-maker. Fox Sports Radio ("Superstation KLAC," if you're Nate) ain't it, for sure. So if WTAM moves to 106.5, there's no money-maker to slide over to 1100 to replace it. This is a different scenario from, for instance, Bonneville's AM-to-FM moves - in Phoenix, they had a sports AM on a lousy signal that was able to upgrade to KTAR's former 620 spot; in Seattle, they snagged the ESPN Radio affiliation for KIRO's 710; in DC, they had the niche (but very profitable) Federal News Radio to upgrade to WTOP's old 1500.
General Observation: The urgency to move AM talkers to FM is strongest in markets that either (a) skew young (with fewer listeners even sampling AM); (b) have FM talk competition (Pittsburgh!), or (c) have no usable full-market AM signals (Washington, Atlanta). Cleveland (a) skews old, with listeners set in their ways and accustomed to tuning to 1100; (b) has no FM talk competition; and (c) has at least 1100 as a usable full-market AM, with 850 and 1220 high up on the "signal-respectability-o-meter."
Specific Observation: Compared to other big broadcasters, CC has been especially cautious about moving its AMs to FMs unless and until it's a screaming necessity. Here's the math: Can a WTAM simulcast on AM and FM (full or partial) produce enough revenue to exceed what's now being produced by WTAM on AM and WMVX on FM combined, or what would be produced by WTAM on AM and a "Gen-X" on FM combined? Is there reason to believe that demographic trends will make WTAM unviable on AM in the short term?
Reasonably Informed Conclusion: There's not going to be a WTAM-FM, and 106.5 will emerge with some sort of music format.
More Speculation: OMW's going to quote this on the Mighty Blog at some point soon...
Though its unlikely, WMVX is running an AC station on 106.5 HD-2 called...surprise..."Lite Rock 106.5 HD-2." Surprising, considering they used to be "Lite Rock" from 1984-1997, when they became Mix. It would be weird to go back to the previous format considering WDOK's lock on the Soft AC audience.
I love Scott's words..."in the short term". Makes sense.
Many valid points.
And, will CBS make the investment in an FM talker in Cleveland....a market they'd give their right arm to get out of? Not likely.
Besides...who could they hire?
Triv & Lannigan are tied up in long term contracts. Who else is there with Cleveland clout? Really, nobody. And, CC already has those two in place on 1100 & 105.7!
That's what's fun about discussions: you learn things.
Hey, maybe CC sees their younger talk numbers are already in place...on WMMS.
Many valid points.
And, will CBS make the investment in an FM talker in Cleveland....a market they'd give their right arm to get out of? Not likely.
Besides...who could they hire?
Triv & Lannigan are tied up in long term contracts. Who else is there with Cleveland clout? Really, nobody. And, CC already has those two in place on 1100 & 105.7!
That's what's fun about discussions: you learn things.
Hey, maybe CC sees their younger talk numbers are already in place...on WMMS.
SonoSational18 said:
That would be Tony Matteo, who CC hired to program WMVX a few months ago, and who was in afternoon drive prior to today. Judging by the fact he's still there (if that is indeed correct), a music format of some sort will be surfacing. No way Tony would program a spoken word format of any kind.
The more I think of it, the more it has to be Gen-X. It will have to take a while for me to figure out the meaning behind the 7:30am Monday launch time, though... if not to capture the maximum amount of people on the roads during rush hour.
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