New at the Sound

[scooty430]

Even KRTH, which gives the illusion of a deeper playlist, is relatively tight,

Is this some kind of a joke? KRTH has one of the most repetitive playlists ONNN EARRRTTHH. "Relatively tight" is quite the understatement.

JACK is the only major station with a big playlist in LA.

Don't say "only major" unless you know that for a fact.

KRCD, 6th in the last Diary book in 25-54, has a larger library than Jack (12th) or KRTH (13th) or even KROQ (8th).

But KIIS, with a very small library, is #5.

Point taken. I am completely unfamiliar with Latino-oriented stations.

However, doesn't this go against your long-standing stance against big playlists? You're basically saying there are TWO successful stations with large playlists.

As for KIIS having a small playlist, that is a different animal. They are playing mostly new music, so the playlist is naturally refreshed all the time.

When people complain about boring playlists, they are usually talking about stations that focus on old music, like KRTH, KLOS, The Sound.

 

[scooty430]

No joke scooty, never said KRTH wasn't repetitive, and relatively tight IS tight and that always translates to repetitive. But KRTH is good at hiding it most of the time with specialty weekends and by dropping in a gem or two to mix it up a little. As for Jack, having a deep playlist is nice, but if it's not the music you want to hear it doesn't matter and I hear a lot of burned tunes on Jack.

You're right. KRTH is pretty good about adding and dropping songs to mix it up. But overall it's pretty dullsville. The weekends are good about every three months or so, but for the most part are a farce and I don't think fool anyone. ("Parade of Hits" anyone?) Adding the 70s songs refreshed them, but they'll burn those out quickly. Once they try to move it up to exclusively late 70s and 80s, as Eduardo thinks they will and should do, they will die. They'd be wise to maintain their foundation (1955-1974) and keep adding on the upper end.

I use JACK to mainly show that a station can play more than 400 songs, and can mix genres, and do well in the ratings. But that doesn't mean I like it very much personally. The snarky, vulgar announcer, the lack of DJs, the pseudo "play what we want" theme, the total lack of connection to community, and yes, the burned songs. All of these things make it not a fave for me.

 

[scooty430]

Let's face it...The Sound won't make and impact ratings wise for about 5 years, if they're lucky. You've got to be committed to this format and put in the time and $$. I think Bonnville sees KFOG up in the Bay and says..."Hey, we can do that".

In 5 years, if you look at the trending, there will be less non-Hispanic whites in the market than today. We'll likely have close to 46% Hispanic, maybe 14% Asian, the same 8% Black and maybe 15% immigrants from Russia, Persia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe. That's around 82% to 83% other than the kind of people who represent nearly all of an AAA's audience.

The station has no better signal than KSCA had when it was AAA, so signal is not a comparitive issue. It's about ethnicity and the appeal of what is probably most non-ethinic format in America to the kind of people who make up LA.

^^^Looking at the demographics so true. What format do you think would be successful on 100.3??

It's probably not necessary to put people in boxes. There are plenty of Persian, Asian, and Hispanic people who are pretty American-ized and listen to lots of different kinds of music. You make it sound like every Latino in LA listens to Tejana or Mariachi tunes 24/7. The truth is many Hispanics like everything from Morrissey to Metallica, and if you actually live here, you know that.

You're also forgetting a pretty strong reason for AAA: demographics. I'm surprised that David Experto doesn't mention this, as he's always talking about how "12 and up" ratings are irrelevant, and it's all about billing.

Anyway, what would be successful on 100.3? Probably look at the current top 10 billing stations, and there is your answer.

 

[radioresearcher]

Let's face it...The Sound won't make and impact ratings wise for about 5 years, if they're lucky. You've got to be committed to this format and put in the time and $$. I think Bonnville sees KFOG up in the Bay and says..."Hey, we can do that".

In 5 years, if you look at the trending, there will be less non-Hispanic whites in the market than today. We'll likely have close to 46% Hispanic, maybe 14% Asian, the same 8% Black and maybe 15% immigrants from Russia, Persia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe. That's around 82% to 83% other than the kind of people who represent nearly all of an AAA's audience.

The station has no better signal than KSCA had when it was AAA, so signal is not a comparitive issue. It's about ethnicity and the appeal of what is probably most non-ethinic format in America to the kind of people who make up LA.

^^^Looking at the demographics so true. What format do you think would be successful on 100.3??

It's probably not necessary to put people in boxes. There are plenty of Persian, Asian, and Hispanic people who are pretty American-ized and listen to lots of different kinds of music. You make it sound like every Latino in LA listens to Tejana or Mariachi tunes 24/7. The truth is many Hispanics like everything from Morrissey to Metallica, and if you actually live here, you know that.

You're also forgetting a pretty strong reason for AAA: demographics. I'm surprised that David Experto doesn't mention this, as he's always talking about how "12 and up" ratings are irrelevant, and it's all about billing.

Anyway, what would be successful on 100.3? Probably look at the current top 10 billing stations, and there is your answer.

Scooty:

You are right that people of all ethnic backgrounds will listen to rock music and non-ethnic targeted stations. But it tends to be stations like KROQ or 98-7 that in the rock world, skew a bit younger.

The ethnic on KCBS-FM and KLOS are much lower than KYSR or KROQ. They may like Morrissey and Metallica, but not likely big fans of CSNY and the Rolling Stones album cuts.

 

[davideduardo]

It's probably not necessary to put people in boxes. There are plenty of Persian, Asian, and Hispanic people who are pretty American-ized and listen to lots of different kinds of music.

In the case of Persians, Arabs and Eastern Europeans, I am speaking of first generation persons... and these folks have little exposure to AAA and will not acquire the taste (music taste is pretty set in early adolescence, in fact),

While alternative rock has definite Hispanic appeal, AAA does not. Same with Asians in general

You make it sound like every Latino in LA listens to Tejana or Mariachi tunes 24/7.

No LA station plays Tejano. We are not in Texas. Only a couple of LA stations in LA play some mariachi, but not much of it.

The truth is many Hispanics like everything from Morrissey to Metallica, and if you actually live here, you know that.

62% of the Hispanic market is Spanish dominant. In 18-34, there are 40 shares among the Spanish stations, in fact.

Most Hispanics in LA listen to Spanish langauge radio. The English staitons that get significant Hispanic listening are:

KRTH, KBIG, KPWR, KYSR, KIIS, KCBS-FM, KMVN, KROQ, KHHT, KOST.

These and the Spanish stations make up the top 20 stations, with #20 having only a 1.6 share of Hispanic 18-54 listening.

You're also forgetting a pretty strong reason for AAA: demographics. I'm surprised that David Experto doesn't mention this, as he's always talking about how "12 and up" ratings are irrelevant, and it's all about billing.

Yeah, if you don't have 18-54 ratings, you have no billings. And there are not enough candidates for AAA listening to get decent ratings.

Anyway, what would be successful on 100.3? Probably look at the current top 10 billing stations, and there is your answer.

Considering that the signal is less than perfect, taking on any of the big stations and big formats is likely not going to work. A niche format is ap´propriate, but AAA is the wrong niche.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

It's probably not necessary to put people in boxes. There are plenty of Persian, Asian, and Hispanic people who are pretty American-ized and listen to lots of different kinds of music.

In the case of Persians, Arabs and Eastern Europeans, I am speaking of first generation persons... and these folks have little exposure to AAA and will not acquire the taste (music taste is pretty set in early adolescence, in fact),

While alternative rock has definite Hispanic appeal, AAA does not. Same with Asians in general
----------------------------------------------
Considering that the signal is less than perfect, taking on any of the big stations and big formats is likely not going to work. A niche format is appropriate, but AAA is the wrong niche.

David, your knowledge is supreme, but on The Sound's AAA playlist, you are not informed because it's not your bag. No knock on you, but I have been listening since the beginning. I have spent about 75% of my radio listening time to 100.3 so I have a good "feel" for their playlist.

According to one part of the definition in Dictionary.com- Niche: A special area of demand for a product or service.

As any real regular listener to the station will attest, they fail miserably in the "special area" part.

I just did a quick look at The Sound's playlist according to the Top 100 most played tracks (yes.com) and you and others may be surprised that 53 of the 100 songs and/or artists are also readily heard on KROQ and/or KYSR and/or Indie. Alternative rock cuts and artists that can have Hispanic appeal? 53% shared with alternative rock. With the little slice of the pie there is for rock-based formats in the LA market, is this the plan to get listeners?

Beyond the sharing with alternative rock, there also is a large part of that playlist that KLOS, JACK, and KRTH play. Only around 20 - 25% not shared by anyone else in town.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, this is a big turn off for many who dropped their iPods, satellite radio, or Internet radio and came back to radio tuned in to 100.3 and found same ol' same ol'. Even Idie got some shares with an even weaker signal that hardly gets into the SF Valley. I do know Bonneville will give it a long time but just what IS their identity?? I remember FM 101.9 KSCA, I knew FM 101.9 KSCA, I listened to FM 101.9 KSCA, and 100.3 The Sound KSWD, you're NO FM 101.9 KSCA!!

 

[davideduardo]

David, your knowledge is supreme, but on The Sound's AAA playlist, you are not informed because it's not your bag. No knock on you, but I have been listening since the beginning. I have spent about 75% of my radio listening time to 100.3 so I have a good "feel" for their playlist.

I've looked at the lists and the overlap.

Remember, a format is defined by what it plays that others don't as well as what it doesn't play that others do. Overlap is not the issue... all stations have some overlap with other stations.

The issue is that Sound looks like it tries to be less niche and more mainstream, since the niche for AAA is not big enough. This is probably shrewd, yet the station still has a major differentiation in what it plays and what it does not play.

We know purer AAA does not work. This may be a better way to go today.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

My gut tells me you are right about the niche not big enough to go after -- In fact that audience more likely goes to 103.1 nowadays. Its a shame to be successful a station has to be almost like everyone else. For the few hard core AAA fans there are, the station is a big disapointment. But that won't pay the bills and get advertisers ha.

 

[jedimaster]

yeah, this Sound station stinks too much of consultant radio. Still playing it safe. Even tho' you guys think racism has nothing to do with the air talent, I think still they would not put a minority on full time (except for overnights, that's safe) any more than they would put Julie Slater on in afternoon and mornings. I don't think they'd put on a woman in such important dayparts, because they are stuck in that mentality that only guys can do the job. That' just plain middle-ages thinking.

A more progressive station like KSCA had one Asian (full time), two Hispanics (one full time) and one black (part time) announcers. They had three women on full time airstaff.

Someone pointed out that KYSR and KROQ did better in the ethnic department. If you notice, those two stations actually employ some full time mintorities. KLOS is all white.

 

[davideduardo]

My gut tells me you are right about the niche not big enough to go after -- In fact that audience more likely goes to 103.1 nowadays. Its a shame to be successful a station has to be almost like everyone else. For the few hard core AAA fans there are, the station is a big disapointment. But that won't pay the bills and get advertisers ha.

Indie shows how niche formats in PPM seem to be decimated. It lost about half it's small diary audience in PPM, going from around a 0.5 in diary to a 0.3 and 47th in the market in the new test data.

 

[davideduardo]

yeah, this Sound station stinks too much of consultant radio. Still playing it safe.

Every time I see radio's issues blamed on consultants, I cringe. Yet people think it is right to get an outside auditor, not do their own electrical work and they get second opinions on critical medical issues.

Consultants, at least the good ones, are also teachers. They train PDs in techniques and discoveries that come from years of looking at dozens or even hundreds of markets. They offer different perspectives and techniques.

Consultants are people who are so good they can not be kept in a single market. Most bring much to a station that might otherwise become provincial and isolated.

[/quote]Even tho' you guys think racism has nothing to do with the air talent, I think still they would not put a minority on full time (except for overnights, that's safe) any more than they would put Julie Slater on in afternoon and mornings.[/quote]

Bonneville is one of the most socially conscious companies in the business. They require staff to do community work, and give paid time for some of it. I am sure they have both a respect for the laws and a desire to be a good member of the diverse LA community. But I alsol believe they pick the best person for each job.

I don't think they'd put on a woman in such important dayparts, because they are stuck in that mentality that only guys can do the job. That' just plain middle-ages thinking.

You know this how?

A more progressive station like KSCA had one Asian (full time), two Hispanics (one full time) and one black (part time) announcers. They had three women on full time airstaff.

KSCA nearly 12 years ago. The employement market has changed a lot, so it's unfair to compare this with something so long ago.

Someone pointed out that KYSR and KROQ did better in the ethnic department. If you notice, those two stations actually employ some full time mintorities.

Your effort to say that minorities listen to stations with other minorities on them is absurd. We all listen to stations that entertain us. It's nice and commendable to see stations that allow women and minorities a chance... but we know that at the Sound may have minorities in many other important postiion.

But worrying about the airstaff lineup is like wondering why KLAX or KBUE or KSCA don't have any Blacks or Asians or non-Hispanic whites on the air...

 

[SuperRadioFan]

100.3 fm has successfully channeled the ghost of KLOS

Oooooops can't channel a station that's still alive. OK they've successfully channelled the Ghost of Arrow/KLSX combined. They just played Peter Frampton's 11 minute "Do You Feel Like We Feel". Some old Humble Pie (which they have played) would have been preferable. Don't get me wrong, I liked the cut back in the day, but hearing a staple of KLOS on a different frequency just doesn't seem right. That song was followed by K.T. Tunstall. Yeh Frampton and Tunstall...Yeh they go together. But then they reverted to form by playing "Even the Losers"-Tom Petty. But then they channelled Indie by playing "Trashcan"-Delta Spirit. I wish they'd make up their mind! Or are they pioneering a Brand New Format--- "Classic Adult Alternative Sybil Rock"?

 

[SuperRadioFan]

referring back to an earlier post in this thread

We have no idea if there were any non-white people who even applied for jobs at the Sound, did you? Sorry but I think you're way off. I’ll bet they have a much more multi-ethnic staff behind the scenes.

Not only a good bet but its true as I have met some of those behind the scenes folks! I also want to point out that the Music Director and the Promotions Director are both women.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Every time I see radio's issues blamed on consultants, I cringe. Yet people think it is right to get an outside auditor, not do their own electrical work and they get second opinions on critical medical issues.

Consultants, at least the good ones, are also teachers. They train PDs in techniques and discoveries that come from years of looking at dozens or even hundreds of markets. They offer different perspectives and techniques.

Consultants are people who are so good they can not be kept in a single market. Most bring much to a station that might otherwise become provincial and isolated.

Except that the consultant company they're using has a mixed bag of ratings results for their clients. KPRI uses them also. How'd that work out for them?

 

[davideduardo]

Except that the consultant company they're using has a mixed bag of ratings results for their clients. KPRI uses them also. How'd that work out for them?

This is a format that only has done well in a few markets. If anyone knows how to do it, it's the consultants they have. I'm suspecting that Bonneville wanted a format nobody would go after in a market where they have only one property... unfortunately, I think the format is too niche for LA right now.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I'll trust your judgment on SBR, David. I guess Bonneville hopes to eventually make enough on spot rates.

 

[leethalweapon]

Re: 100.3 fm has successfully channeled the ghost of KLOS

Oooooops can't channel a station that's still alive. OK they've successfully channelled the Ghost of Arrow/KLSX combined. They just played Peter Frampton's 11 minute "Do You Feel Like We Feel". Some old Humble Pie (which they have played) would have been preferable. Don't get me wrong, I liked the cut back in the day, but hearing a staple of KLOS on a different frequency just doesn't seem right. That song was followed by K.T. Tunstall. Yeh Frampton and Tunstall...Yeh they go together. But then they reverted to form by playing "Even the Losers"-Tom Petty. But then they channelled Indie by playing "Trashcan"-Delta Spirit. I wish they'd make up their mind! Or are they pioneering a Brand New Format--- "Classic Adult Alternative Sybil Rock"?

I thought the whole idear of AAA was in some way to highlight depth and diversity of rock/pop musicfor an older (more adventurous?) audience. With the ipod age upon us, I see this as smart programming. If you listen to alot of today's artist's, you will no doubt see comparisions with artists of yesterday. To me, Delta Spirit sounds a lot like some Rolling Stones tracks, KT Tunstall could well be the 21st century Stevie Nicks. You might argue that today's music is disposable, but I have 1000 songs in my ipod from the last 8 years that in my opinion still stand today.

Hopefully there will be enough audience to see this station turn a profit in the future.

 

[scooty430]

Considering that the signal is less than perfect, taking on any of the big stations and big formats is likely not going to work. A niche format is ap´propriate, but AAA is the wrong niche.

If they want to be a niche, then they need to be something special. Classic rock is definitely not special, unless you're doing something like XM's Deep Tracks. Pure AAA is kinda bland, and with KCRW and Indie, some of that small audience is already taken.

What they should do is what they SAY they are doing. Be an authentic MUSIC station, not AAA. Play roots rock, some deeper classic rock, new stuff, some obscure stuff, some popular stuff. Let's hear Fats Waller next to Dave Edmunds next to XTC next to Frank Sinatra next to Bo Diddley next to Ralph Stanley next to Los Lobos next to Radiohead. They need to get some passionate, knowledgable music people in there and let them be creative. That will create a BUZZ in L.A. and people will flock to it. No, not too many soccer moms will like it. But if every music geek, radio geek, musician, industry type, etc. became obsessed with this really cool new station, it would have a strong niche. You'd get press attention, internet attention.... You'd pull in people who have given up on radio, or hadn't even considered it.

But cranking out uber-familiar Peter Frampton and Tom Petty is just not going to create any excitement.

DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

 

[davideduardo]

What they should do is what they SAY they are doing. Be an authentic MUSIC station, not AAA. Play roots rock, some deeper classic rock, new stuff, some obscure stuff, some popular stuff. Let's hear Fats Waller next to Dave Edmunds next to XTC next to Frank Sinatra next to Bo Diddley next to Ralph Stanley next to Los Lobos next to Radiohead.

Yeah, the 80% ethnic and immigrant component to LA will eat that up. NONE of them has ever been exposed to most of that stuff. In fact, I have been in radio for 49 years and don't think I have ever heard Waller, Edmonds, XTC or Stanley. I avoid Sinatra and piano bar music like the plague, and don't like Bo Diddley and hate Radiohead. You sure got me...

 

[nmoore6676]

What they should do is what they SAY they are doing. Be an authentic MUSIC station, not AAA. Play roots rock, some deeper classic rock, new stuff, some obscure stuff, some popular stuff. Let's hear Fats Waller next to Dave Edmunds next to XTC next to Frank Sinatra next to Bo Diddley next to Ralph Stanley next to Los Lobos next to Radiohead.

Yeah, the 80% ethnic and immigrant component to LA will eat that up. NONE of them has ever been exposed to most of that stuff. In fact, I have been in radio for 49 years and don't think I have ever heard Waller, Edmonds, XTC or Stanley. I avoid Sinatra and piano bar music like the plague, and don't like Bo Diddley and hate Radiohead. You sure got me...

David, how could you never have heard Ralph Stanley, he is a legend in American music, as is Fats Waller and Frank Sinatra, and Bo Diddly. Dave Edmunds is one of the major contributors to what is called rock. I agree that the ethnic component here is not fertile soil so you may be correct but then maybe they should get some exposure, so they can assimilate better.

For me another station not playing Ranchero and other styles of Hispanic music is a good thing. I'll avoid it while you are avoiding the "piano bar music", but Frank (and Dean) are not piano bar music, they are legends and have more style than most anything coming out of south of the border. I'll bet you that more people can tell you who Frank is south of the border than can tell you in the Midwest who Vicente Fernandez or Pedro Infante are.

I have to admit that my musical tastes are a bit more eclectic than a lot but my interests in what passes for pop music or whatever they call it now dropped out in the nineties when melody and talent got lost in a world of electronic effects and no talent brats who can't act like responsible people. I don't deny them a platform for those who appreciate them but please give us older more adult people a couple of radio stations too. When my late parents were confronted by Elvis and the Beatles, The Stones and others they thought it was the end of the world, I'm glad they aren't still here for what passes for "musical talent" now. I know the ad buyers don't want me but I'm not ready for my dirt nap quite yet so they've gotta live with it.