New at the Sound

[radioresearcher]

KIIS? The only people who listen to KIIS are 11 years old, after they outgrow Radio Disney. (I'm exaggerating, but you get my drift.)

KROQ? Don't they skew young too? Does anyone over 30 want to hear My Chemical Romance and Linkin Park?

And does KIIS or KLVE's audience have the same income level that, say, NPR attracts, or that classical KKGO or KSCA attracted? I really doubt it.


Anyway, they're going for an older, affluent audience. Like it or not.

With that in mind, I think rather than try AAA, which is just another watered-down boring corporate snooze-orama, they should create something exciting. They have all the SLOGANS for it. "Playing music that matters." "Where music counts." They have the "feel" - taking surveys, having message boards, reaching out to the community. But they need to actually PLAY EXCITING MUSIC. Don't just say it, DO IT.

Whatever race we are in LA, wherever we came from, we like a lot of eclectic music and there is a thriving music community here. So they should create something for us that isn't condescending and coprorate, isn't for soccer moms, and isn't KLOS Lite. Bag the consultants who don't even KNOW some of the ARTISTS (lol) and create an awesome station.

KIIS is #1 25-54 in PPM
KROQ is #2 25-54 in PPM

KROQ has a relatively affluent audience.

There are format holes in Los Angeles that are obvious that will reach a decent number of listeners and would be perfectly suited to 100.3 ...

We are in a cume game now with PPM -- and AAA and eclectic Alternative (like Indie) don't work.

Then how come you always hear Top 40 is terrible for selling ads?

Anyway, let's hear your opinion. What do you think are the format holes that should be on 100.3?

Where did you hear Top 40 is terrible for selling ads? KIIS/L.A., Z100/New York, and KHKS/Dallas are three major market cash cows.

The format will likely be even more lucrative with PPM.

 

[briancraig]

"First, nobody has used the Top 40 term for about 3 decades"


Didn't Billboard still use the term "top 40" until they stopped covering radio in the 1990s? I thought CHR was a term Radio & Records had a copyright on, so other trades couldn't use it.

 

[davideduardo]

"First, nobody has used the Top 40 term for about 3 decades"


Didn't Billboard still use the term "top 40" until they stopped covering radio in the 1990s? I thought CHR was a term Radio & Records had a copyright on, so other trades couldn't use it.

Billboard still covers radio, with editor Leyla Cobo in charge. And they simply called the chart the Top 100 or Hot 100. I don't think they ever had a Top 40 chart.

You are right, though, that R&R wanted to create a proprietary term, and it worked.

 

[nmoore6676]

Then how come you always hear Top 40 is terrible for selling ads?

You seem to hear lots of things that are not true. The problem is you believe them. Gawd, you even think My Way was an original Sinatra tune!

First, nobody has used the Top 40 term for about 3 decades... it really means a format that is gone... 40 sons and nothing else. Today's CHR has library depth beyond 40 songs.

And one of the top 3 billers in LA is CHR. It must not be so terrible after all.

I guess top 40 tells a person's age, I still understand what it means. I thought my Grandma was quaint because she call a refrigerator "the Frigidaire", others when I was a kid called it an "Icebox". I do remember when different stations had different names for their hot list of songs, usually printed on flyers and available at local record shops. I don't recall who might have been the first to use the term Top-40 maybe someone does.

Which brings me to the second point, people who aren't into the music business or in the business tend to identify songs as belonging to the person most famous for singing it, especially if they are a fan. Thus you hear people talking about "Elvis songs" ,he never wrote a single song that I know of. People will call "Crazy", even younger persons, a Patsy Cline song yet Willie Nelson wrote it, at the time he was little known outside the inner Nashville circles.

You know a lot about radio and the business thereof and I'm sure you are a whiz at your job but you often come off sounding didactic and superior at another poster's misapprehension. Most people on here seem friendly and as an old coot, I am certainly set in my ways, and full of misinformation, so often I am surprised and dismayed to find that I am wrong, gasp!, but it happens.

 

[LV Foghead]

Consultants, at least the good ones, are also teachers. They train PDs in techniques and discoveries that come from years of looking at dozens or even hundreds of markets. They offer different perspectives and techniques.

Consultants are people who are so good they can not be kept in a single market. Most bring much to a station that might otherwise become provincial and isolated.

Truth be told: 95% of all Consultants are Consultants because they can't get real jobs. These "experts" have pretty much destroyed and homogenized something that was once fun, creative, and exciting.

 

[calguy]

Then how come you always hear Top 40 is terrible for selling ads?

You seem to hear lots of things that are not true. The problem is you believe them. Gawd, you even think My Way was an original Sinatra tune!

First, nobody has used the Top 40 term for about 3 decades... it really means a format that is gone... 40 sons and nothing else. Today's CHR has library depth beyond 40 songs.

And one of the top 3 billers in LA is CHR. It must not be so terrible after all.

Actually R&R lists CHR/Top 40 as a format. Check their website. Kevin Carter is the editor. So it's still being used, and it's still used by a lot of non-industry people, civilians if you will...

 

[davideduardo]

Actually R&R lists CHR/Top 40 as a format. Check their website. Kevin Carter is the editor. So it's still being used, and it's still used by a lot of non-industry people, civilians if you will...

I did not even notice R&R uses the term any more. Thanks for pointing this out. Among those I know, we tend to use CHR for extended list (100+ titles) hit stations, and Top 40 for the now-ancient 40 songs plus a pick hit or two version that is long gone.

 

[davideduardo]

Truth be told: 95% of all Consultants are Consultants because they can't get real jobs. These "experts" have pretty much destroyed and homogenized something that was once fun, creative, and exciting.

I don't think this is true at all.

First, most people who become consultants do so because they can make more money as they are in demand. And nearly all would have jobs overnight if they decided not to consult any more.

As to the quality of radio, remember that consultants go back to 50's, and were responsible for decades of great radio by enabling smaller market owners to have the skills and teaching of a major market programmer for a fee rather than a huge salary.

 

[davideduardo]

Which brings me to the second point, people who aren't into the music business or in the business tend to identify songs as belonging to the person most famous for singing it, especially if they are a fan. Thus you hear people talking about "Elvis songs" ,he never wrote a single song that I know of. People will call "Crazy", even younger persons, a Patsy Cline song yet Willie Nelson wrote it, at the time he was little known outside the inner Nashville circles.

I think you missed the start of this sub-topic. I mentioned, on the subject of "My Way" that folks familiar with the song in Latin America would probably like the original French version more. Ole' Scootie, who tends to post a lot of "facts" that are not real, jumped back saying the tune was a Paul Anka original, and that Paul is from English speaking Toronto. In fact, the song, cowritten and cocomposed by claude Francioise, was a French hit well before Anka did the English lyrics and Sinatra recorded the cover.

The issue here is not the general public and what they recognize, but, rather, that we have a poster who insists in saying false things about radio... and even music.

If setting the record straight when people say things that just ain't so is pedantic, so be it.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I mentioned, on the subject of "My Way" that folks familiar with the song in Latin America would probably like the original French version more. Ole' Scootie, who tends to post a lot of "facts" that are not real, jumped back saying the tune was a Paul Anka original, and that Paul is from English speaking Toronto. In fact, the song, cowritten and cocomposed by claude Francioise, was a French hit well before Anka did the English lyrics and Sinatra recorded the cover.

The issue here is not the general public and what they recognize, but, rather, that we have a poster who insists in saying false things about radio... and even music.

If setting the record straight when people say things that just ain't so is pedantic, so be it.

Speaking of setting the record straight, I think you owe "Ole' Scooty" an apology as it was I that made that statement. Frankly, in the back of my mind, I figured you, David, would jump in with the historical facts. At the time I wanted to look it up anticipating your response, but alas time did not permit. Oh and BTW, Happy Birthday to: Paul Anka, born this day in Ottawa (not Toronto as I erroneously stated) in 1941.

To Norman, just remember when you make a statement like: "Most people on here seem friendly and as an old coot, I am certainly set in my ways, and full of misinformation, so often I am surprised and dismayed to find that I am wrong, gasp!, but it happens.", that you are around David's age, so you're both out of any age group advertisers want to reach because you each have one foot in the grave! :

And one last thing, Norman, when it comes to David's expertise on radio and on non-radio facts and opinions, two rules:

1) David is never never never wrong about anything

2) If you do think David is incorrect about anything, please refer to Rule #1

;D ;D

David you're still the best!!

 

[SuperRadioFan]

bringing the subject back to The Sound

I had a conversation online with a new listener to The Sound. He really liked their artists, the ones easily heard on JACK and KLOS. He was a JACK listener but now loves the new station at 100.3. He still likes them even though now and then he's heard The Sound play an "oddball song". In further conversation he really thought The Sound was Classic Rock station. Ya think there's a problem with branding for the station????
BTW as I type this they went from Stray Cats right into a Bad Company song ("Ready For Love").

 

[davideduardo]

Speaking of setting the record straight, I think you owe "Ole' Scooty" an apology as it was I that made that statement. Frankly, in the back of my mind, I figured you, David, would jump in with the historical facts.

Absolutely. I have been "up to my chin" with Scooty's errors of fact ("nobody under 30 listens to radio...") that I inadvertently attributed this one to him.

At the time I wanted to look it up anticipating your response, but alas time did not permit. Oh and BTW, Happy Birthday to: Paul Anka, born this day in Ottawa (not Toronto as I erroneously stated) in 1941.

Several friends went to see the Anka show at one of the Indian gaming casinos a month or two ago and raved about how good and complete it was. Of course, they remembered listening to the Anka hits on XEHL in Guadalajara in the early 60's!

To Norman, just remember when you make a statement like: "Most people on here seem friendly and as an old coot, I am certainly set in my ways, and full of misinformation, so often I am surprised and dismayed to find that I am wrong, gasp!, but it happens.", that you are around David's age, so you're both out of any age group advertisers want to reach because you each have one foot in the grave! :

And I understand why people in this age who are not in radio don't understand why radio does not want to serve them. Many of us are active consumers, too... I'm about to go home and install my new 128 GB solid state hard drive in my Lenovo, in fact.

 

[scooty430]

Then how come you always hear Top 40 is terrible for selling ads?

You seem to hear lots of things that are not true. The problem is you believe them. Gawd, you even think My Way was an original Sinatra tune!

First, nobody has used the Top 40 term for about 3 decades... it really means a format that is gone... 40 sons and nothing else. Today's CHR has library depth beyond 40 songs.

And one of the top 3 billers in LA is CHR. It must not be so terrible after all.

Semantics. Just like AOR became "Classic Rock." Or Oldies became "Classic Hits." Or Top 40 became "CHR."

When I say Top 40 I mean stations that play mostly current "hits." That would be KIIS.

Sinatra didn't write tunes, nor did most singers until the 60's. But then, you knew that, because you know everything.

 

[scooty430]

Consultants, at least the good ones, are also teachers. They train PDs in techniques and discoveries that come from years of looking at dozens or even hundreds of markets. They offer different perspectives and techniques.

Consultants are people who are so good they can not be kept in a single market. Most bring much to a station that might otherwise become provincial and isolated.

Truth be told: 95% of all Consultants are Consultants because they can't get real jobs. These "experts" have pretty much destroyed and homogenized something that was once fun, creative, and exciting.

Yup.

Which is why I will stand by the fact that most people under 30 do not listen to much radio.

They use ipods, they listen to online radio, they do Pandora, they chat with AIM about music, they use MySpace, they use Pandora, they listen to podcasts...

Radio to them is like a landline, a printed newspaper, rabbit ears on a TV, or a manual typewriter. Archaic, static, and irrelevant.

The final nail in the coffin will be internet in the car.

 

[davideduardo]

Semantics. Just like AOR became "Classic Rock." Or Oldies became "Classic Hits." Or Top 40 became "CHR."

AOR still exists... the assumption being it plays currents. Classic rock is what stations that were AOR became if the quit moving up with the times.

Oldies is 60's based pop hits. Classic hits is 70's based.

CHR is, as one poster noted, a name invented by a trade magazine. Still, many consider Top 40 to be 40 songs and little else, while most CHRs have a much bigger list, often approaching 150 to 200 songs.

When I say Top 40 I mean stations that play mostly current "hits." That would be KIIS.

I understand why you say it, but KIIS plays lots more than the 40 hits... it's a young adult female station, and is really, to invent a term, a Hot Hot AC.

Sinatra didn't write tunes, nor did most singers until the 60's. But then, you knew that, because you know everything.

Sinatra's "My Way" was a cover of a French song written by Claude Francoise... the discussion was about the fact that the song was not written, just relyriced, by Paul Anka. And my point was that older listeners in Latin America would likely prefer, and have heard more often, the original French version.

 

[davideduardo]

Which is why I will stand by the fact that most people under 30 do not listen to much radio.

I already gave you the figure. Over 95% of 12-30 year olds listen to the radio.

They use ipods, they listen to online radio, they do Pandora, they chat with AIM about music, they use MySpace, they use Pandora, they listen to podcasts...

They also listen to the radio.

The final nail in the coffin will be internet in the car.

With the number of setbacks WiMax has had, this will be a long time coming. The average age of cars in the US is over 8 years, so getting even half-penetration potential will take a decade, given the current economy. And then there will be a subscription fee for the service. A huge percentage of the population, as with satellite radio, will opt out and say "no."

 

[scooty430]

Why are you guys acting like Radiohead is some obscure act? KROQ has played them for years and usually 4 or 5 of their songs show up whenever KROQ does one of their top 500 all time countdowns with Creep usually being in the top 15.

I would still dispute that everyone's musical taste is set when they are teenagers. I once gave the example of how many people I know that wouldn't have been caught dead listening to country 25 years ago but now that is their main radio choice. Ratings would prove me correct that among white teens in my market 25 years ago, the number one station was AOR. Today among those same people who are now in their early 40s, the country station is number one.

David said it was because of where I live (Tennessee). But why would that be unique to this area?

I wouldn't worry too much about DE. This so called expert has never even heard of Dave Edmunds, XTC, Ralph Stanley, or Fats Waller. Two of them are KRTH artists, one is a longtime KROQ artist, and another was on a huge sountrack a few years back....a little thing called O Brother Where Art Thou? (It had this guy named George Clooney in it, but he's kind of an obscure actor, so you probably haven't heard of him.)

He also seems to think nobody likes Frank Sinatra and Radiohead, especially the latter, because filling the Hollywood Bowl doesn't matter.

How a guy can work in radio and have this lack of knowledge/perspective is amazing! Hopefully it's a volunteer position! LOL.

 

[scooty430]

Which is why I will stand by the fact that most people under 30 do not listen to much radio.

I already gave you the figure. Over 95% of 12-30 year olds listen to the radio.

They use ipods, they listen to online radio, they do Pandora, they chat with AIM about music, they use MySpace, they use Pandora, they listen to podcasts...

They also listen to the radio.

The final nail in the coffin will be internet in the car.

With the number of setbacks WiMax has had, this will be a long time coming. The average age of cars in the US is over 8 years, so getting even half-penetration potential will take a decade, given the current economy. And then there will be a subscription fee for the service. A huge percentage of the population, as with satellite radio, will opt out and say "no."

Sure, 95 percent listen to the radio. Everybody hears at least a few minutes somewhere.

How about a specific number of hours per week? 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, and now? What are those figures? Somehow it's never mentioned....

 

[nmoore6676]

To Norman, just remember when you make a statement like: "Most people on here seem friendly and as an old coot, I am certainly set in my ways, and full of misinformation, so often I am surprised and dismayed to find that I am wrong, gasp!, but it happens.", that you are around David's age, so you're both out of any age group advertisers want to reach because you each have one foot in the grave!

Forest Lawn still wants me! ;D

An I'll have you know I'm getting ads in the mail from "The Scooter Store" so there are advertisers, the radio stations just need to sell spots to them and bring on the Lawrence Welk. Uh One anda Two!

 

[davideduardo]

An I'll have you know I'm getting ads in the mail from "The Scooter Store" so there are advertisers, the radio stations just need to sell spots to them and bring on the Lawrence Welk. Uh One anda Two!

I do not know specifically about the Scooter Store (is it owned by Scootie, by any chance?) but most of this type of advertising on TV is PI, or "per inquiry" where the station or cable net gets no money unless there are leads generated. Since TV shows have fixed "empty spots" for commercials, a net that is undersold plugs these things in and hopes to get at least a little money. But they don't make that music.