New at the Sound

[SuperRadioFan]

I wouldn't worry too much about DE. This so called expert has never even heard of Dave Edmunds, XTC, Ralph Stanley, or Fats Waller. Two of them are KRTH artists, one is a longtime KROQ artist, and another was on a huge sountrack a few years back....a little thing called O Brother Where Art Thou?

KRTH artists- Dave Edmonds ("I Hear You Knocking") and .......?
I hope you're not confusing Fats Waller with Fats Domino (who also recorded "I Hear You Knocking" among many many great songs).
XTC is the KROQ artist though how much play are they getting on 106.7 these days?


Re. radio listening by young 'uns, I agree they listen but what % of their leisure time compared to other "listening" activities?

 

[davideduardo]

Sure, 95 percent listen to the radio. Everybody hears at least a few minutes somewhere.

Average listening in 12-30 is not available for prior periods since custom age groups only came this month with PPM data, and only available in 4 markets nationally.

18-34 in LA today listen 20:00 hours a week per the diary based Spring 2008 survey. 18-34 in 1998, also Spring, was 23:45.

How about a specific number of hours per week? 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, and now? What are those figures? Somehow it's never mentioned....

That's because we do not, as an industry, have the information. There is no data available from any source I can find for 1960, as it is pre-Arbitron. Arbitron itself does not have 1970, or 1980 books on file, and only some data for 1990. I am told the Emory University library in GA has a big collection of ratings books, but none can even be oreded by microfiche or other means.

Since advertisers do not buy anything but "those who are listening when the spot runs" it really does not matter who is not listening, as it is not part of the advertising model or the business of advertising.

 

[scooty430]

“One of the things that’s very clear, above all else....all the surveys that I’ve seen of radio listening indicates young people are not listening. Hardly at all, to terrestrial radio. Once they reach a certain age they’re listening to public broadcasting, but folks are getting their information and their music in other ways than traditional over the air broadcast radio.”

- Larry Mantle, two days ago, on KPCC's Air Talk.

Larry seems like a pretty knowledgeable, balanced guy. I'll go with his assessment.

 

[davideduardo]

“One of the things that’s very clear, above all else....all the surveys that I’ve seen of radio listening indicates young people are not listening. Hardly at all, to terrestrial radio. Once they reach a certain age they’re listening to public broadcasting, but folks are getting their information and their music in other ways than traditional over the air broadcast radio.”

- Larry Mantle, two days ago, on KPCC's Air Talk.

Larry seems like a pretty knowledgeable, balanced guy. I'll go with his assessment.

He is a talk host. He is not a researcher.

There is only one company that surveys every significant market in the US, constantly and reguarly with nearly a million individuals surveyed each year, and that is Arbitron.

Advertisers use Arbitron data to place about $20 billion dollars in advertising each year. Arbitron is the FCC's source for market definitions and listening estimates.

Preferring some unknown talk host on a low rated non-commercial FM over highly accredited Arbitron data is absurd and shows you have a distorted and weak understanding of the industry as a whole.

Why not try sitting back and reading and learning as opposed to expressing opinions that have only the weakest links to realtity? This is a matter of fact, not opinion, too... so don't do one of your "ready, fire, aim" retorts about anecdotal experience with n = 1.

 

[OCradiodude]

I wouldn't worry too much about DE. This so called expert has never even heard of Dave Edmunds, XTC, Ralph Stanley, or Fats Waller. Two of them are KRTH artists, one is a longtime KROQ artist, and another was on a huge sountrack a few years back....a little thing called O Brother Where Art Thou?

Fats Waller on KRTH? The only place you will ever hear Fats is on Chuck Cecil's The Swingin' Years on KKJZ on Saturday and Sunday mornings from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. However, that is only if Chuck wants to play some stride piano tunes from the 20s and 30s.
An excellent site for more info on Fats Waller is here: (includes sound clips)
http://www.redhotjazz.com/Fats.html

 

[Indielover]

I wouldn't worry too much about DE. This so called expert has never even heard of Dave Edmunds, XTC, Ralph Stanley, or Fats Waller. Two of them are KRTH artists, one is a longtime KROQ artist, and another was on a huge sountrack a few years back....a little thing called O Brother Where Art Thou?

Fats Waller on KRTH? The only place you will ever hear Fats is on Chuck Cecil's The Swingin' Years on KKJZ on Saturday and Sunday mornings from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. However, that is only if Chuck wants to play some stride piano tunes from the 20s and 30s.
An excellent site for more info on Fats Waller is here: (includes sound clips)
http://www.redhotjazz.com/Fats.html

Actually Henry Rollins plays Fats Waller quite often on his "Harmony in my head" show on indie 1031 (Tuesdays 8-10pm).

 

[scooty430]

“One of the things that’s very clear, above all else....all the surveys that I’ve seen of radio listening indicates young people are not listening. Hardly at all, to terrestrial radio. Once they reach a certain age they’re listening to public broadcasting, but folks are getting their information and their music in other ways than traditional over the air broadcast radio.”

- Larry Mantle, two days ago, on KPCC's Air Talk.

Larry seems like a pretty knowledgeable, balanced guy. I'll go with his assessment.

He is a talk host. He is not a researcher.

There is only one company that surveys every significant market in the US, constantly and reguarly with nearly a million individuals surveyed each year, and that is Arbitron.

Advertisers use Arbitron data to place about $20 billion dollars in advertising each year. Arbitron is the FCC's source for market definitions and listening estimates.

Preferring some unknown talk host on a low rated non-commercial FM over highly accredited Arbitron data is absurd and shows you have a distorted and weak understanding of the industry as a whole.

Why not try sitting back and reading and learning as opposed to expressing opinions that have only the weakest links to realtity? This is a matter of fact, not opinion, too... so don't do one of your "ready, fire, aim" retorts about anecdotal experience with n = 1.

Um.....you just finished saying Arbitron doesn't have data on how many hours people under 30 spent listening to radio now versus 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990. So much for the mighty Arbitron.

Until you come up with some actual figures that show how many specific hours per week people under 30 (or over, for that matter) listen, and how much that has declined, then we must use other sources.

While you don't seem to respect Larry Mantle, he is actually a fine broadcaster who has been on KPCC for many years, hosting the drive-time talk show and now mid-day. His program, Air Talk, is also on XM.

I definitely trust and respect his opinion, and would imagine he has access to good data about the industry.

 

[scooty430]

I wouldn't worry too much about DE. This so called expert has never even heard of Dave Edmunds, XTC, Ralph Stanley, or Fats Waller. Two of them are KRTH artists, one is a longtime KROQ artist, and another was on a huge sountrack a few years back....a little thing called O Brother Where Art Thou?

Fats Waller on KRTH? The only place you will ever hear Fats is on Chuck Cecil's The Swingin' Years on KKJZ on Saturday and Sunday mornings from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. However, that is only if Chuck wants to play some stride piano tunes from the 20s and 30s.
An excellent site for more info on Fats Waller is here: (includes sound clips)
http://www.redhotjazz.com/Fats.html

I listen to Chuck every Sat and Sun morning - well, I record it and listen to it later. It's the longest running show on radio. The other week Chuck actually drove down from Ventura with his wife and was on the air live. (His show is usually pre-taped.) He is 80 years old and still sounds sharp as a tack. What a fantastic show he does. I wish he were more appreciated.

Anyway, I meant Fats Waller originally in terms of what would be cool for a music-focused station on 100.3 to play. However, in responding to Eduardo a few days later, I was thinking of the Blueberry Hill Fats. As in Domino.

In any event, the point is that a guy who works in radio should be familiar with artists of this stature. Maybe not Fats Waller, but certainly XTC, Dave Edmunds, and Ralph Stanley.

 

[davideduardo]

Um.....you just finished saying Arbitron doesn't have data on how many hours people under 30 spent listening to radio now versus 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990. So much for the mighty Arbitron.

The purpose of ratings data is to sell radio time, not to build a museum. There is no reason for Arbitron to save data that is older than needed for the purpose.

Arbitron did not do radio in '60. They had not fully rolled out in 1970. In 1980, we were pre-personal computer, and the data they might have is in CDC computer format even if they have the tapes.

We can't expect Arbitron to have old data, as there is no financial incentive for anyone to keep the data around... remembering that any time before the early 90's all data was in the books, a year of which would fill a big bookcase.

Until you come up with some actual figures that show how many specific hours per week people under 30 (or over, for that matter) listen, and how much that has declined, then we must use other sources.

I gave you 1998 vs. 2008. What more do you want?

While you don't seem to respect Larry Mantle, he is actually a fine broadcaster who has been on KPCC for many years, hosting the drive-time talk show and now mid-day. His program, Air Talk, is also on XM.

He is totally unknown in research and radio statistical fora, and is, thus, not an expert in ratings and radio as a business. I would not ask Rush Limbaugh, either, to analyze ratings trends.

I definitely trust and respect his opinion, and would imagine he has access to good data about the industry.

I doubt it... non-coms don't get full Arbitron data, even if they get some data... which not all do.

 

[OCradiodude]

Actually Henry Rollins plays Fats Waller quite often on his "Harmony in my head" show on indie 1031 (Tuesdays 8-10pm).

Thanks for the information. I've never listened to his program, but I just checked out his playlists. Some good eclectic music, including Fats Waller

 

[OCradiodude]

I listen to Chuck every Sat and Sun morning - well, I record it and listen to it later. It's the longest running show on radio. The other week Chuck actually drove down from Ventura with his wife and was on the air live. (His show is usually pre-taped.) He is 80 years old and still sounds sharp as a tack. What a fantastic show he does. I wish he were more appreciated.

Anyway, I meant Fats Waller originally in terms of what would be cool for a music-focused station on 100.3 to play. However, in responding to Eduardo a few days later, I was thinking of the Blueberry Hill Fats. As in Domino.

In any event, the point is that a guy who works in radio should be familiar with artists of this stature. Maybe not Fats Waller, but certainly XTC, Dave Edmunds, and Ralph Stanley.

I try to catch Chuck when I can. I love his show. I stumbled upon it a couple years ago when I first started listening to 88.1 due to a class I took (The History of Jazz). I don't remember where I saw it (maybe here?) that Chuck doesn't make new programs anymore and instead just rebroadcasts programs from his library. However, that may not be true from what you say above. He sounds great for being 80. Actually, he sounds the same now as he ever did. I'm currently listening to an unscoped aircheck of him on KFI from June 5, 1973 and he sounds the same. He is truly an unsung hero in Los Angeles radio.

You mentioned that he was live on KKJZ a couple weeks ago. Was that for the pledge drive?

One issue with radio today is that not enough people are experts in music. That is part of the problem, but not the only problem.

 

[hamNcheese]

If The Sound fails it will be for the same reasons Movin' did:

- Too much research
- Too corporate
- Too safe
- Too boring
- Too much music offered somewhere else
- Lifeless

It won't be because "AAA can't work in LA."

That playlist is a dead fish.

How did they do in the ratings? PPM?

 

[hamNcheese]

Hate to disagree, but I am hearing The Sound in stores and restaurants all over the place. I think this is an early indicator of something that is doing quite well.

That 35th rank in June in the PPM test data says it all.

Thats the info I was looking for David. that combined with the Zero point nothing they got in the traditional ratings confirmed what i thought looking at that playlist.

AAA? no AOR meets Modern AC.

What a fuggin waste of time.

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

Hate to disagree, but I am hearing The Sound in stores and restaurants all over the place. I think this is an early indicator of something that is doing quite well.

That 35th rank in June in the PPM test data says it all.

Thats the info I was looking for David. that combined with the Zero point nothing they got in the traditional ratings confirmed what i thought looking at that playlist.

AAA? no AOR meets Modern AC.

What a fuggin waste of time.

I live on the westside where this station should have its core audience. I have yet to hear ONE business playing it. I hold to my post when this format hit the air. DOA. What's the next format? That should be our discussion.

The electronic Clear Channel billboards for the station with the song that is currently on the air look good, though. But KFI does that for their electronic Clear Channel billboards as well, with who or what (the news) is currently on and KFI did it first.

 

[hamNcheese]

I live on the westside where this station should have its core audience. I have yet to hear ONE business playing it. I hold to my post when this format hit the air. DOA.

The station probably sounds great if your sitting in a room in Boulder, Colorado. In LA, not so much. You know I could go on all day about this, but its just a waste of time.

Looking at SBR client list I now know why the stations in my town suck too.


I think we are done here.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I live on the westside where this station should have its core audience. I have yet to hear ONE business playing it. I hold to my post when this format hit the air. DOA. What's the next format? That should be our discussion.

The electronic Clear Channel billboards for the station with the song that is currently on the air look good, though. But KFI does that for their electronic Clear Channel billboards as well, with who or what (the news) is currently on and KFI did it first.

Glenn, if you can resist a smart aleck response, I'd really like you to elaborate on this statement: "I have yet to hear ONE business playing it." What kind of business? An office where you walk in and look to see who, if anyone, is listening to the station's stream or who has an actual radio turned on and tuned in? A retail business like a shoe store in the mall? A fast food business? OK how about your local 24 Hour Fitness or LA Fitness? I belong to 24hr and they pipe in music from a satellite feed or something like Music Choice or DMX but I have NEVER never heard in my 20+ years of membership heard a real radio station playing on their sound system. In malls I have not heard any real radio station playing. So please provide a little more context. Because if not your statement seems to be meaningless.

As far as where the core audience is supposed to be?? The westside-- that's it?????
Look I'm not trying to pick an argument, it's clear The Sound's format is not your cup of tea. What's your prediction of when their demise will occur? You and David both are probably surprised that Indie is still on after 4 1/2 years. I seem to remember your predictions on that station.

The billboards are nice especially that big one on the 405 in the South bay. The bad thing is if a prospective listener drives by and sees the current playing song as "Long Train Running" what in the world would convince THAT listener to tune in and stay???

So even though it's not your favorite format, what would you suggest they do to amend their playlist and still be a AAA or as they call themselves "World Class Rock"?

Thanks Glenn, always enjoy reading your posts and also your dialogue with Sr. Gleason

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

I live on the westside where this station should have its core audience. I have yet to hear ONE business playing it. I hold to my post when this format hit the air. DOA. What's the next format? That should be our discussion.

The electronic Clear Channel billboards for the station with the song that is currently on the air look good, though. But KFI does that for their electronic Clear Channel billboards as well, with who or what (the news) is currently on and KFI did it first.

Glenn, if you can resist a smart aleck response, I'd really like you to elaborate on this statement: "I have yet to hear ONE business playing it." What kind of business? An office where you walk in and look to see who, if anyone, is listening to the station's stream or who has an actual radio turned on and tuned in? A retail business like a shoe store in the mall? A fast food business? OK how about your local 24 Hour Fitness or LA Fitness? I belong to 24hr and they pipe in music from a satellite feed or something like Music Choice or DMX but I have NEVER never heard in my 20+ years of membership heard a real radio station playing on their sound system. In malls I have not heard any real radio station playing. So please provide a little more context. Because if not your statement seems to be meaningless.

As far as where the core audience is supposed to be?? The westside-- that's it?????
Look I'm not trying to pick an argument, it's clear The Sound's format is not your cup of tea. What's your prediction of when their demise will occur? You and David both are probably surprised that Indie is still on after 4 1/2 years. I seem to remember your predictions on that station.

The billboards are nice especially that big one on the 405 in the South bay. The bad thing is if a prospective listener drives by and sees the current playing song as "Long Train Running" what in the world would convince THAT listener to tune in and stay???

So even though it's not your favorite format, what would you suggest they do to amend their playlist and still be a AAA or as they call themselves "World Class Rock"?

Thanks Glenn, always enjoy reading your posts and also your dialogue with Sr. Gleason

Look, AAA is not a format that will work in L.A.. We've been there, done that, too many times. This city isn't white or yuppie enough for that format. It's not going to work on any signal but if we had to pick a signal where to put a AAA format, I'd pick 103.1 where it once was. Although I don't care for AAA, that's not the reason I personally have posted from Day 1 it's DOA, it's just knowledge of this market and what we were expecting from the PPM based on results from other cities. As you know from other posters here, I'm not the only one who believes this.

As I stated on day 1, unless KLOS went away, it didn't have a chance. Since KLOS is doing well under the PPM, my statement stands.

As for where I haven't heard it that would include every office, every store I've been in and I've never heard it "blaring" from any vehicle. If I was wearing a PPM, it certainly would not have recorded that station.

I give it about 18 months from the time it hit the air. Now, what will the next format be?

 

[Zeb Norris]

I know that this is an older thread, but after reading most of it I wanted to offer a few thoughts.

A lot of comparisons were made to KFOG, which is a very successful station both in terms of ratings and revenue. But it wasn't always thus. KFOG used to be a perennial also ran to CBS's more mainstream AOR KRQR, where I was Music Director in the early to mid 90's. KRQR made two mistakes at the same time; they got caught in a squeeze play when they tried to stay current with the developing grunge scene, which their established audience didn't necessarily like (partly my fault). They also hired a flat out terrible morning show (not my fault!). They never recovered from those errors, and KFOG became the dominant Rock station while KRQR flipped out of the format. Then in the later 90's Susquehanna (who owned KFOG at the time) put on their own Classic Rock station, removing the temptation for anyone else to try to flank KFOG.

Comparisons were also made to LA's two previous AAA stations. But the fact is those stations weren't programmed as well as KSWD. I don't mean any disrespect to the folks involved (some of them are friends of mine), but KSCA flat out didn't have enough familiarity and tempo for LA, while the folks at Channel stuck too close to the Boulder model, which meant (once again) not enough familiarity. I mean, I love Big Head Todd and the Monster, but they are not familiar in LA. You can't import familiarity. So far it looks to me like the folks at The Sound aren't making either of those errors.

Another thing to consider is the difference between ratings and revenue. In Chicago WXRT is getting beat in the ratings by WDRV, but kicks ass in revenue. Part of the reason is heritage, but part of it is the fact that agency time buyers (and their clients) LIKE the station, and buy it for that reason. And in point of fact, AAA is in general a format with high power ratios. So that could work for KSWD regardless of their ratings performance.

In any event, it DOES take time to build a AAA. It's not a quick fix format. But done correctly it can have more staying power than typical quick fix formats.

Just my 2 cents. As a AAA person I wish them all the success possible!

PS If you've never listened to KDFC, San Fransisco's Classical station (which used to be owned by Bonneville), you ought to check it out. It's not for stuffy Classical listeners; it's hip, it has tempo and crispness, and the jocks all sound almost exactly like KFOG jocks. It's an amazing station that earns it's success the old fashioned way; by delivering a great listening experience.

 

[4UH8SIMBKAGN]

No comparisons between San Francisco and Los Angeles should ever be made. Two cities that are like oil and vinegar. The don't mix.

AAA will NEVER work in Los Angeles, Mexico. Period. Doesn't matter how well it is programmed. They can keep the format on for 10 years and it will continue to be as big a loser as it was from day 1.

 

[davideduardo]

IAnother thing to consider is the difference between ratings and revenue. In Chicago WXRT is getting beat in the ratings by WDRV, but kicks ass in revenue.

They are pretty much tied in revenue now.

And in point of fact, AAA is in general a format with high power ratios. So that could work for KSWD regardless of their ratings performance.

In LA, where we have 42% Hispanic, 12% Asian, 8% Black and another 10% first generation immigrants from places like Armenia, Russia and Persia, there is a very small core for AAA and it's likely the agency buyers don't listen... AAA is about the least ethnic format there is.