New Fall Out Boy

[p_herring]

I don't remember anyone procalimaing Green Day or Offspring as "hardcore punk rock". Than again, I was only 11 in '94 and simply listened to what sounded good to me, regardless of scene politics, coolness factors or influence from others (my, how I long for those days). That being said, while neither bands might be "hardcore" they still came from a certain scene, had a certain set of punk ethics, and weren't afraid to push the boundaries a little and not be limited by a very strict set of rules (which, ironically, the genre was trying to rebel against).

Fall Out Boy may, yes, have a majority of female fans, but do females not listen to alternative radio? Many acts on alternative cater to both male and female demographics.

The band has always had a very poppy and slick sound, even back to their horrendous indie debut "Fall Out Boy's Evening With Your Girlfriend." They write songs with choruses, hooks and fast beats. I don't think that's necessarily part of a "corporate agenda" but rather just what they were influenced by.

You're exactly right about the early 90's. Since grunge came along and basically became the mainstream (thus, thrusting several bands out of the underground and into the spotlight) it wasn't as top-40 heavy. Of course, there were still several acts that kept the whole dance-pop/slow r&b/top 40 thing alive (Ace Of Base, Boyz II Men, Haddaway, Celine Dion to name a few). I still don't see how it's fair to call acts like Fall Out Boy "bubblegum" only because they have poppy songs. In a completely heterosexual way, minus Pete Wentz, it's not like the band is much to look at from a marketing standpoint.

I'm actually a fan of several of the hipster hack bands. Decemberists, Muse, Strokes, The Shins all have a great sound and I wish alternative would embrace them more. That being said, there's a reason this style of music isn't as succesful as some might hope. The main problem with these bands is that there's a certain arrogance carried around with genre, it almost sticks it's nose up at Middle America (see many interviews with Bright Eyes). The problem with that is, middle America is a large record-buying crowd (look at Nickelback and Hinder for example) and if you're gonna be "too cool for school", the people there aren't gonna be willing to embrace you. Being popular in NYC, LA, Philly and Chicago will only get you so far. With the exception of Muse and the Decemberists most hipster dufus bands are complete bores live and act like they're doing you a favor by showing up. Not really the sign of a "revolution" of you ask me.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk by saying you complain about every act on alternative. But I still think you hold too narrow of a view on what shold be accepted as alternative. While some people may love to have playlists full of "eccentric" acts, the reality is, it just won't work. There's a reason why a lot of this music is "underground" and that's because most of the public just won't get into it. This isn't to say anything about the actual merit of the music, just how people perceive it. Alternative needs acts that crossover to the mainstream so they can hold people's attention and then introduce to them the wierd, cutting-edge acts that are exclusive to the format.

On a slightly different note, I'm really curious about G-rock in NJ. I'm in the CT part of the tri-state area, so once K-Rock went, that was it for FM radio and rock/alternative music. If it's true what you say, that's a disgrace that the station will embrace acts like Shinedown and not Tool. While I think acts like Breaking Benjamin and Three Days Grace can have a small part on alternative because they take after the early grungers of the 90's, Shinedown definetly doesn't belong there. They're a straight-up AOR Band and are everything alternative acts hope not to be.

Finally, glad we both share a love for the Pumpkins. I just pulled out my old Aeroplane Flies High box set. Great stuff on there. Hopefully the new CD that they've been working on can deliver.

 

[The_Drake]

Soul Crusher labels anything a woman might possibly like as "bubblegum pop". He labels any station that plays any music not 100% created for men as "Hot AC." He's been repeating himself for the past 4 years here...

 

[SoulCrusher]

I don't remember anyone procalimaing Green Day or Offspring as "hardcore punk rock". Than again, I was only 11 in '94 and simply listened to what sounded good to me, regardless of scene politics, coolness factors or influence from others (my, how I long for those days). That being said, while neither bands might be "hardcore" they still came from a certain scene, had a certain set of punk ethics, and weren't afraid to push the boundaries a little and not be limited by a very strict set of rules (which, ironically, the genre was trying to rebel against).

I was in high school around the time Green Day and Offspring broke, and believe me, everyone thought they were so dangerous and hardcore. There were even a few kids that tried to start a mosh pit at this one school dance I went to (for what it's worth, they were probably the edgiest songs that were played). I really think the only people that like those bands are those that have never heard the punk rock from the '70s, or even bands that came a little later like Bad Religion or Pennywise. And I'm sure that the people that thought Green Day and Offspring were hardcore thought otherwise when the former put out ballads worthy of Michael Bolton (Good Riddance, Wake Me Up When September Ends) and the latter put out an endless string of cheesy novelty songs (Pretty Fly For A White Guy, Original Prankster, etc.).

The band has always had a very poppy and slick sound, even back to their horrendous indie debut "Fall Out Boy's Evening With Your Girlfriend." They write songs with choruses, hooks and fast beats. I don't think that's necessarily part of a "corporate agenda" but rather just what they were influenced by.

You may be right, but so often bands and artists change to reflect commercial trends. Goo Goo Dolls, Smash Mouth and Sugar Ray are examples of bands that had hits that sounded nothing like the rest of their material, but they all changed and became defined by their hit songs, completely changing to write songs in the style of their respective hit. It has been reported that the frontman of new-wave rockers The Bravery, Sam Endicott, used to play in a ska band. The person behing the up-and-coming dance-rock act Young Love used to play in post-hardcore band Recover.

In Fall Out Boy's case, some members were part of a political hardcore band (Racetraitor), and several members claim Morrissey as a big influence. But you would never know it from listening to their sound, which is basically Good Charlotte or Simple Plan with the occasional bitter rant directed at an ex. Really, I would be shocked if anyone who is a fan of either hardcore or Morrissey actually like Fall Out Boy in the slightest. But I think the members of FOB know that they stand a better chance at the arena-rock level success they so desire by following the same well-worn footprints of bands that came before them. They might be a footnote in musical history and will likely be forgotten 30, 20, likely even 10 years from now much like other big trend followers (FOB are to bubblegum pop/punk what Bush were to grunge and Trixter were to hair-metal), but the money, fame and chicks that they crave will be theirs for the taking ... at least while MTV considers them "the hot thing".

You're exactly right about the early 90's. Since grunge came along and basically became the mainstream (thus, thrusting several bands out of the underground and into the spotlight) it wasn't as top-40 heavy. Of course, there were still several acts that kept the whole dance-pop/slow r&b/top 40 thing alive (Ace Of Base, Boyz II Men, Haddaway, Celine Dion to name a few). I still don't see how it's fair to call acts like Fall Out Boy "bubblegum" only because they have poppy songs. In a completely heterosexual way, minus Pete Wentz, it's not like the band is much to look at from a marketing standpoint.

Maybe the fame has something to do with it, but I'm sure most girls would beg to differ with you on that last assessment. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have heard someone profess their love for Patrick Stump outside the MTV studios in Times Square. Turns out the frontman is quite popular in his own right.

On a slightly different note, I'm really curious about G-rock in NJ. I'm in the CT part of the tri-state area, so once K-Rock went, that was it for FM radio and rock/alternative music. If it's true what you say, that's a disgrace that the station will embrace acts like Shinedown and not Tool. While I think acts like Breaking Benjamin and Three Days Grace can have a small part on alternative because they take after the early grungers of the 90's, Shinedown definetly doesn't belong there. They're a straight-up AOR Band and are everything alternative acts hope not to be.

G Rock has their moments. They are playing a lot of stuff that few stations are touching right now (Silversun Pickups, The Decemberists and Placebo are among them). But they also have a cheesy side, where they play a lot of AOR-type music like Stone Sour, Shinedown and Jet. At one time they played Nickelback and 3 Doors Down constantly, but thankfully that period is over. Shinedown are nothing more than a modern-day Lynyrd Skynyrd (further cemented by the "Simple Man" cover) and Jet does nothing more than blatantly copy AC/DC and The Beatles - I don't understand what is so "Alternative" about this. Stone Sour are basically '80s hard rock with the post-grunge singing style, which also doesn't belong on Alternative.

The thing that's odd about them is that they have a female-friendly presentation which starts with their station IDs and morning show (Brian Phillips and Jen Ursillo do a great job, but all of that celebrity gossip is better suited for a Hot AC) and goes on to exclude the harder side of the Alternative format (no Korn or Slipknot at all, airplay for Tool that's limited to maybe one spin for the Current song at night, and only softer System Of A Down songs like "Aerials" or "Lonely Day") with a mix that goes really heavy on ballads (the soft songs from Staind, Audioslave, and Fuel, and tons of Hot AC crossover fodder over the years). Even though I personally enjoy some of the heavier acts, it's not essential that they receive airplay, but I don't understand why bands such as Stone Sour, Shinedown, Jet, Linkin Park, Staind, Fuel, Evanescence, etc. are played (and very often I might add) while some bands that are quite successful on the format are almost ignored completely. Under the previous owners WHTG (then called "FM 106.3") had a more general focus leaning slightly toward the Males, but since the day Press Communications took over the station has clearly made Female demos their top priority. This is made even more baffling by the heavy pandering toward the Female audience in the market, with the Male (50 & under) demo going almost completely ignored. They'll listen to G Rock by proxy (since they bill themselves as "the only alternative") but will quickly get frustrated by the heavy amount of soft ballads. Then there's a Classic Rocker (WCHR) and a Mainstream Rocker that bills itself as an Active (WRAT) that target the older demos with their song selection and overall sound. Neither of these stations play the edgier bands I just mentioned either, but there's tons of overlap with the more MOR rock acts which get played on other Rock formats as well as Hot AC & CHR. That's the part I don't understand. Wouldn't it make more sense to make your station different from the competition? Despite some good Currents and an occasional surprise from the library (which in general is just way too safe), G Rock sounds too much like the competition - one could surmise that a good 70-80% of the station's music can be heard elsewhere in the market. The playlist is pretty tight as well - while there are surprises to be found, they still give old tired songs like "Longview" and "Scars" about a dozen spins a week, and that really isn't necessary. This needs to change in order for the station to stick around.

That said, G Rock is still a much better station than your token CBS/Infinity or Clear Channel "Modern Rock" station. It's far better programmed than K-Rock in NYC was for most of its run. And the station does have more going for it musically than the extremely tight "pound the hits" approach of many big conglomerate stations. But on the whole G Rock is still far too safe, and I think it could pull better ratings by tinkering with the format and being more open to listener input. For the record, it's quite apparent that the year-ending Top 106 Of '06 used radio airplay as its primary method for ranking the songs: http://www.grockradio.com/promo/top106-2006/results.html

 

[Beejus]

Soul Crusher labels anything a woman might possibly like as "bubblegum pop". He labels any station that plays any music not 100% created for men as "Hot AC." He's been repeating himself for the past 4 years here...

It's nice that you could predict SoulCrusher's next post... and in MANY MANY fewer words!

 

[Beejus]

Sicne I trudged through the entire post... I just want to point out:

The playlist is pretty tight as well - while there are surprises to be found, they still give old tired songs like "Longview" and "Scars" about a dozen spins a week, and that really isn't necessary. This needs to change in order for the station to stick around.

Papa Roach's "Scars" was spun 4 times on GRock last week, Green Day's "Longview" spun 3. Stop exaggerating to try to make your point look better.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Sicne I trudged through the entire post... I just want to point out:

Papa Roach's "Scars" was spun 4 times on GRock last week, Green Day's "Longview" spun 3. Stop exaggerating to try to make your point look better.

I'm not sure how you know this - maybe you have insider information since you're a PD of a radio station. But I do know that the songs get played an awful lot over at the Big G, and maybe it's just bad timing on my part that every time I turn the station on some really tired track that has been played to death is on.

I kind of rambled in my last post and got off on a rant, so you can think of this as the report card for 2006:

To G Rock's credit: The current selection is strong and you do hear some classic tracks that you won't hear elsewhere. If you're patient and can bear to sit through tired Nirvana and STP hits, you might hear something like Urge Overkill's "Sister Havana". If only we could get that more often and were not so often subjected to the same old safe tracks.

On the downside for G Rock: The aforementioned repetition of tired hits and a strange aversion to screaming, even if it's for one line of a song. This station actually takes the screaming out of songs by AFI, The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Bullet For My Valentine, among other acts. I guess that explains why they don't play Korn or System Of A Down. They're trying to keep the station safe for doctor's offices everywhere!

I have been critical of G Rock and its strange difference to some other Alternatives (do we really need "Modern Rock Lite" in a market that doesn't have another Modern Rock station?), but I have to point out that they have improved by leaps and bounds over the past year. They're no longer playing Nickelback or 3 Doors Down (Thank God!) and they seem to have cut back on the juvenile pop/punk in general, even though they still play Green Day at least once every 2 hours, if not more than that. There's some more rough edges that need to be smoothed out (mostly with cutting repetition for tired old hits and playing some better classic songs instead), but things are looking up for G Rock if they keep up the progress.

 

[machinehead]

I may be late in saying so, but come on? New Fallout Boy? Their mission: kill alternative rock radio one station at a time. File with My Chemical Romance and discard in a large hole before it's too late. I know John Lee Hooker said "the little girls understand," but to quote Robert Christgau, "sometimes the little girls don't know s---." Fallout Boy is a good example of this.

 

[AllMightySting]

I may be late in saying so, but come on? New Fallout Boy? Their mission: kill alternative rock radio one station at a time. File with My Chemical Romance and discard in a large hole before it's too late. I know John Lee Hooker said "the little girls understand," but to quote Robert Christgau, "sometimes the little girls don't know s---." Fallout Boy is a good example of this.

No. Fallout Boy is not killing Alternative Radio, neither is My Chemical Romance. It is this philosophy that is killing Alternative Radio. Why in hell would you ignore two of the biggest rock bands in 2006. Sure, Fallout Boy is probably not the favorite band of that 35 year old guy listening.....but its not so annoying that its going to drive anyone away. I'm not saying you build your playlist around FOB or MCR....but certainly at least give them each a couple spins a day, maybe just in those dayparts that the younger audience is likely to be listening.

There should be room for everything on Alt. Radio. Play The Shins and The Decemberists. Play Stone Sour and Breaking Benjamin. Play FOB and MCR. Play Depeche Mode and The Smiths. Play Bad Religion and Pennywise. Hard, soft, punk, pop/punk, old, new.....why not play it all?? Why not try and appeal just a little bit to a segment of the audience that radio is going to be counting on to stick around over the next 10-15 years?? Do we really think that Alternative if failing as a format because Alternative is playing MCR and FOB??

 

[SoulCrusher]

I may be late in saying so, but come on? New Fallout Boy? Their mission: kill alternative rock radio one station at a time. File with My Chemical Romance and discard in a large hole before it's too late. I know John Lee Hooker said "the little girls understand," but to quote Robert Christgau, "sometimes the little girls don't know s---." Fallout Boy is a good example of this.

No. Fallout Boy is not killing Alternative Radio, neither is My Chemical Romance. It is this philosophy that is killing Alternative Radio. Why in hell would you ignore two of the biggest rock bands in 2006. Sure, Fallout Boy is probably not the favorite band of that 35 year old guy listening.....but its not so annoying that its going to drive anyone away. I'm not saying you build your playlist around FOB or MCR....but certainly at least give them each a couple spins a day, maybe just in those dayparts that the younger audience is likely to be listening.

There should be room for everything on Alt. Radio. Play The Shins and The Decemberists. Play Stone Sour and Breaking Benjamin. Play FOB and MCR. Play Depeche Mode and The Smiths. Play Bad Religion and Pennywise. Hard, soft, punk, pop/punk, old, new.....why not play it all?? Why not try and appeal just a little bit to a segment of the audience that radio is going to be counting on to stick around over the next 10-15 years?? Do we really think that Alternative if failing as a format because Alternative is playing MCR and FOB??

That's not a bad approach - unfortunately, it's one that not many stations are taking. I'm not a fan of Fall Out Boy and similar acts, but I'm sure my age and gender have something to do with that. Basically, most Modern Rockers go after either frat boys and forklift drivers (pretty much any CBS or Clear Channel station) or indie/college rock fans (Indie, The End). You're not going to hear Shinedown on the latter stations, and you'll never hear The Decemberists on the former. Less common are stations like G Rock which target Women - it's kind of a synthesis of the two stations described above leaning more toward the sound of the former (maybe 75/25 in favor of the forklift driver sound) only without harder rock bands.

I personally would be more likely to listen to the station that you described, because such an approach would keep the station from becoming stale. However, it appears most stations would prefer to please some people all of the time as opposed to all people some of the time. That explains the narrow focus that most Modern Rock stations have. The closest thing I have heard to the station you described is WJSE (102.7 The Ace - http://www.theace1027.com ) in the Atlantic City / Cape May (NJ) market. They're eclectic to the point where they even play classic rock acts like Van Halen and Black Sabbath, acts which I think the station would be better off without.

 

[buzzrock]

btw... anyone looking forward to the new Bad Religion music coming this spring?

 

[machinehead]

Ben, I think you're missing the point of my post. Alternative stations SHOULD play new artists and young artists, absolutely. No one wants to live exclusively in the past, otherwise you DO become classic rock. There are a lot of outstanding songs from The Smiths, absolutely, but you've got to play new acts too. I get it, no argument, but by simply saying Fallout Boy and My Chemical Romance should wither and vanish doesn't mean I think alternative stations should ignore new music...hardly, there is more music out there than those two bands that alternative's audience is already onto.

What I'm saying is it would help the format long-term for programmers to exercise a little bit of discretion and taste in the new acts they want to saddle up with, otherwise the format will continue to be a revolving door of acts and songs with zero staying power and zero connection to the format, station, or audience beyond it's power as a single. Linkin Park, oh where have ye gone? Not that anyone misses Linkin Park, but four years ago, they were getting the Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance treatment. If your whole rationale for playing new music is staving off what you see as a collapse of your audience and you play teenie-alt like Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance, you're just putting band-aids on the format instead of helping it thrive. New artists? Yes, play Silversun Pickups, play the Black Keys, the Decemberists, absolutely, shoot for a demo that doesn't include teenage girls or where you're competiting with Top 40 nonsense. Have some faith in what you're doing. Creative, smart programmers can make this kind of a combination work.

 

[p_herring]

Ben, I think you're missing the point of my post. Alternative stations SHOULD play new artists and young artists, absolutely. No one wants to live exclusively in the past, otherwise you DO become classic rock. There are a lot of outstanding songs from The Smiths, absolutely, but you've got to play new acts too. I get it, no argument, but by simply saying Fallout Boy and My Chemical Romance should wither and vanish doesn't mean I think alternative stations should ignore new music...hardly, there is more music out there than those two bands that alternative's audience is already onto.

What I'm saying is it would help the format long-term for programmers to exercise a little bit of discretion and taste in the new acts they want to saddle up with, otherwise the format will continue to be a revolving door of acts and songs with zero staying power and zero connection to the format, station, or audience beyond it's power as a single. Linkin Park, oh where have ye gone? Not that anyone misses Linkin Park, but four years ago, they were getting the Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance treatment. If your whole rationale for playing new music is staving off what you see as a collapse of your audience and you play teenie-alt like Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance, you're just putting band-aids on the format instead of helping it thrive. New artists? Yes, play Silversun Pickups, play the Black Keys, the Decemberists, absolutely, shoot for a demo that doesn't include teenage girls or where you're competiting with Top 40 nonsense. Have some faith in what you're doing. Creative, smart programmers can make this kind of a combination work.

Linkin Park hasn't released a CD in almost 4 years. I'm sure once it comes out, both alternative and active rock stations will be all over it. Being a program director isn't about adding music that you personally like, it's about adding music that your audience responds to. Fall Out Boy and My CHemical Romance sell-out ARENAS. They are basicallyrock bands with a tad but of punk/emo edge (I know that comment will make Soulcrusher's blood boil, but it's true to a point). As a programmer, why would you ignore them? That's just ignorant.

And yes, why no add the Silversun Pickups and The Decemberists? Both are great bands. Problem is they can be a little to mature and eclectic for many mainstream listeners. But, I like the idea of an alternative station that isn't too cool for the room, yet not a redneck station as well (those alternative stations that continually pump out Godsmack and Shinedown are a disgrace). A format that could play Breaking Benjamin, The Shins, My Chemical Romance and Gnarls Barkley (among others as well). Also, don't forget, the FIRST format to play Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance were Alternative. Why should we surrender them to CHR? Alternative is about supporting ARTISTS throughout their careers. That's why Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tool, Jimmy Eat World, The Strokes, Death Cab For Cutie will continue to receive airplay for new releases, regardless of what other formats pick up or don't. There;s plenty of songs by "cool hip indie acts" that wouldn't sound out of place on a CHR (much as that would piss off the hipsters and their bullsh-t mentality). The "indie/cool acts only" format just won't work anywhere (except for L.A. since peopel have their heads shoved up their asses there).

 

[AllMightySting]

Ben, I think you're missing the point of my post. Alternative stations SHOULD play new artists and young artists, absolutely. No one wants to live exclusively in the past, otherwise you DO become classic rock. There are a lot of outstanding songs from The Smiths, absolutely, but you've got to play new acts too. I get it, no argument, but by simply saying Fallout Boy and My Chemical Romance should wither and vanish doesn't mean I think alternative stations should ignore new music...hardly, there is more music out there than those two bands that alternative's audience is already onto.

What I'm saying is it would help the format long-term for programmers to exercise a little bit of discretion and taste in the new acts they want to saddle up with, otherwise the format will continue to be a revolving door of acts and songs with zero staying power and zero connection to the format, station, or audience beyond it's power as a single. Linkin Park, oh where have ye gone? Not that anyone misses Linkin Park, but four years ago, they were getting the Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance treatment. If your whole rationale for playing new music is staving off what you see as a collapse of your audience and you play teenie-alt like Fallout Boy or My Chemical Romance, you're just putting band-aids on the format instead of helping it thrive. New artists? Yes, play Silversun Pickups, play the Black Keys, the Decemberists, absolutely, shoot for a demo that doesn't include teenage girls or where you're competiting with Top 40 nonsense. Have some faith in what you're doing. Creative, smart programmers can make this kind of a combination work.

Machinehead, I'm sorry but I think you missed my point. I'm not saying that alternative should live in the past, absolutely not. But alternative should not ignore the past either. I'm saying that alternative should become a format where EVERYTHING is welcome again. And by saying that I am not implying that it needs to morph into some kind of JACK-FM. Play the old stuff. Play the new stuff. Play the hard and the soft. Play the indie and the punk. Play the hits and play the deep cuts. Play a one hit wonder from 1993. DON'T SOUND STALE!! My God, when I was first discovering alternative rock back in the mid 90s here in Cleveland, WMMS was playing everything from Tori Amos to Offspring to Talking Heads to Type O Negative and it all sounded KILLER together......what happened?? I strongly believe that a talented programmer can make this work. Sure you might have a station that leans more indie out in L.A., and one that leans towards hits in Detroit, etc.... But the main formula should be the same. MIX IT UP AND TAKE SOME CHANCES. And if you think your audience might enjoy a Bob Marley song or a Bob Dylan song or even a goddam Slayer song.....THEN PLAY THAT TOO!! Just put it all in the right spots.

I never took from your post that you believe we should abandon new music. I took from your post that we should abandon HIT new music that doesn't fit the definition of what some people think is "alternative." P_herring is right, FOB and MCR started out as relative nobodys on alternative rock radio and now are selling out arenas....and people want to kick them totally off the alternative island?? As I said before, you don't build your playlist around them.....but certainly fit them in somewhere. So what if they appeal to a younger audience....are we saying that the younger audience is not welcome anymore?? It's that younger audience that programmers are going to be relying on 10-15 years down the road. Why not let them get used to hearing some of what they consider to be "cool" music on the radio now....instead of getting used to hearing it on their MP3 players?

I understand what you mean about discretion.....and I agree totally. Obviously some stuff can get left out. I may have emphatically stated that you should play EVERYTHING, but obviously there isn't room for EVERYTHING. You can decide not to play Disturbed, not to play Papa Roach, not to play Taking Back Sunday, not to play Damien Rice, not to play XTC. I just can't agree with an alternative programmer using his/her discretion to totally omit a band that has had the recent success like FOB or MCR from their station.

On a side note.....I think this is pretty cool. We've gone 4 pages on this. Nice to see people chipping in and getting a good debate going on here. Fun stuff.

 

[SoulCrusher]

FOB and MCR have a place, and it's true that they both started out on the Alternative format. However, I'm questioning whether FOB belongs there today - have you guys heard "This Ain't A Scene, It's An Arms Race" yet? No joke, the first time I heard it I thought it was the new Justin Timberlake single and I thought "What the heck is an Alternative station doing playing this? Good Charlotte and All American Rejects started out on Alternative as well but were eventually dropped due to the increasing poppiness of their material, and it seems to me that FOB may be headed down the same path. MCR, on the other hand, have their moments - their first album could definitely be described as punk rock with some gothic imagery and subject matter and a liberal amount of screaming. They also seem to be headed down more of a pop-oriented path these days, but I find them a little bit easier to stomach than FOB. At least the lyrics are not so vapid and self-absorbed and there's some interesting touches musically. Alternative radio can play these bands, but they would be foolish to make the mistake of putting these bands at the center of their playlist.

I was listening to G Rock today and heard a huge block of songs that all came out the past year, with several of the songs that are big with the teenies thrown in as well. When they finally got around to playing something older, it was the tried and true Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam (which, after 15 or so years of heavy rotation, is starting to get old). G Rock is but one example of a Modern Rock station that doesn't dig deep enough into the past, which limits the appeal of their station. Seldom ever do you hear anything pre-Nirvana, safe played out hits are still run incessantly, and anything remotely edgy (think Korn, Tool and System Of A Down) is completely ignored. G Rock chooses to go after Females (lots of pop/punk like Green Day and FOB and ballads from Fuel and Staind) and forklift drivers (Shinedown, Stone Sour, Jet, Black Crowes and the biggest hits from very mainstream rock acts like STP and PJ) mostly, throwing the format's most loyal audience a bone every so often (Silversun Pickups, Placebo, Decemberists, and maybe a Smiths or Depeche Mode track if we're lucky). A baffling approach in a market where stations mostly focus on Women, where there's no other current-based Rock station of any kind, but that's the timid whitewashed approach that the folks at Press are taking.

Then you have the "Modern Rockers" that play Godsmack, Disturbed, and even Hinder and Buckcherry - they won't consider for a second playing any of the acts mentioned at the end of the last paragraph. The only common links between these stations and G Rock are the forklift driver rock acts and the grunge bands.

My favorite style of the bunch is the roots-intensive approach taken by stations like The End and Indie. You're highly unlikely to hear FOB, Disturbed or Shinedown on these stations, and they don't run Nirvana and Pearl Jam into the ground. They take the deep approach closest to the one we're describing, with an extensive library and more currents than any other Alternatives out there. However, I understand why stations like this are not the norm. They perform best in known Alternative strongholds and often compete with more mainstream takes on the format (markets like Phoenix, Seattle, Boston, etc.).

I don't understand how some stations out there can call themselves Alternative when they're so out of touch with the most loyal listeners. These stations try too hard to reach out to teenyboppers and frat boys that it alienates a lot of people, and the ratings suffer for it. Every station that dubs itself "Alternative" should no that their audience is a different breed from the CHR fans, and that the same approach will not work. A deep library and diverse current selection is essential, and narrowcasting (like what G Rock does, refusing to play Tool, Korn and SOAD) is definitely not necessary in markets where there is less or no competition for your target audience (or, to reiterate, what should be the target audience).

 

[p_herring]

FOB and MCR have a place, and it's true that they both started out on the Alternative format. However, I'm questioning whether FOB belongs there today - have you guys heard "This Ain't A Scene, It's An Arms Race" yet? No joke, the first time I heard it I thought it was the new Justin Timberlake single and I thought "What the heck is an Alternative station doing playing this? Good Charlotte and All American Rejects started out on Alternative as well but were eventually dropped due to the increasing poppiness of their material, and it seems to me that FOB may be headed down the same path. MCR, on the other hand, have their moments - their first album could definitely be described as punk rock with some gothic imagery and subject matter and a liberal amount of screaming. They also seem to be headed down more of a pop-oriented path these days, but I find them a little bit easier to stomach than FOB. At least the lyrics are not so vapid and self-absorbed and there's some interesting touches musically. Alternative radio can play these bands, but they would be foolish to make the mistake of putting these bands at the center of their playlist.

I was listening to G Rock today and heard a huge block of songs that all came out the past year, with several of the songs that are big with the teenies thrown in as well. When they finally got around to playing something older, it was the tried and true Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam (which, after 15 or so years of heavy rotation, is starting to get old). G Rock is but one example of a Modern Rock station that doesn't dig deep enough into the past, which limits the appeal of their station. Seldom ever do you hear anything pre-Nirvana, safe played out hits are still run incessantly, and anything remotely edgy (think Korn, Tool and System Of A Down) is completely ignored. G Rock chooses to go after Females (lots of pop/punk like Green Day and FOB and ballads from Fuel and Staind) and forklift drivers (Shinedown, Stone Sour, Jet, Black Crowes and the biggest hits from very mainstream rock acts like STP and PJ) mostly, throwing the format's most loyal audience a bone every so often (Silversun Pickups, Placebo, Decemberists, and maybe a Smiths or Depeche Mode track if we're lucky). A baffling approach in a market where stations mostly focus on Women, where there's no other current-based Rock station of any kind, but that's the timid whitewashed approach that the folks at Press are taking.

Then you have the "Modern Rockers" that play Godsmack, Disturbed, and even Hinder and Buckcherry - they won't consider for a second playing any of the acts mentioned at the end of the last paragraph. The only common links between these stations and G Rock are the forklift driver rock acts and the grunge bands.

My favorite style of the bunch is the roots-intensive approach taken by stations like The End and Indie. You're highly unlikely to hear FOB, Disturbed or Shinedown on these stations, and they don't run Nirvana and Pearl Jam into the ground. They take the deep approach closest to the one we're describing, with an extensive library and more currents than any other Alternatives out there. However, I understand why stations like this are not the norm. They perform best in known Alternative strongholds and often compete with more mainstream takes on the format (markets like Phoenix, Seattle, Boston, etc.).

I don't understand how some stations out there can call themselves Alternative when they're so out of touch with the most loyal listeners. These stations try too hard to reach out to teenyboppers and frat boys that it alienates a lot of people, and the ratings suffer for it. Every station that dubs itself "Alternative" should no that their audience is a different breed from the CHR fans, and that the same approach will not work. A deep library and diverse current selection is essential, and narrowcasting (like what G Rock does, refusing to play Tool, Korn and SOAD) is definitely not necessary in markets where there is less or no competition for your target audience (or, to reiterate, what should be the target audience).

Hmmm, I took a look at G-Rock's playlist and I must say, I feel like I'd like this station. They play Army Of Anyone next to Decemberists next to Papa Roach next to Switchfoot next to Saosin, etc. Of course, it is INEXCUSABLE to play Shinedown and not play Tool. That makes no sense to me (I don't even see females digging the Shinedown too much).

As for The End and Indie, it's just far too eclectic and boring for me. Sure those indie/hipster bands are good, but a format that relies too much on that will alienate a part of its audience. The fact that Indie even has a name like "Indie" is just stupid considering the majority of the bands they play are on major labels. Plus, according to Mediabase, KNDD spins MCR's "Welcome To The Black Parade" about 26 times a week, a far stretch from any kind of "cool" credibility. If they added a few more active-leaning but still alternative acts (Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace, Tool, Korn, System, etc.) and eased up on the hipster dufuses, they might have a station.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Hmmm, I took a look at G-Rock's playlist and I must say, I feel like I'd like this station. They play Army Of Anyone next to Decemberists next to Papa Roach next to Switchfoot next to Saosin, etc. Of course, it is INEXCUSABLE to play Shinedown and not play Tool. That makes no sense to me (I don't even see females digging the Shinedown too much).

As for The End and Indie, it's just far too eclectic and boring for me. Sure those indie/hipster bands are good, but a format that relies too much on that will alienate a part of its audience. The fact that Indie even has a name like "Indie" is just stupid considering the majority of the bands they play are on major labels. Plus, according to Mediabase, KNDD spins MCR's "Welcome To The Black Parade" about 26 times a week, a far stretch from any kind of "cool" credibility. If they added a few more active-leaning but still alternative acts (Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace, Tool, Korn, System, etc.) and eased up on the hipster dufuses, they might have a station.

There's plenty of good about G Rock - they do a commendable job with the Currents and might surprise you with something from the library. However, they do play it very safe with a lot of tired old stuff (they still play the biggest hits from Pearl Jam's Ten, STP's Core, Green Day's Dookie and Nirvana's Nevermind A LOT, for starters) and have a sound that many Male listeners may find too soft for their tastes - keep in mind that this is a market with NO Active Rocker, Urban, or any other station that targets Males under 40. I'm a fan of G Rock but find myself having to tune out due to repetition of the old warhorses and way too much balladry for the Females from the likes of Fuel, Staind, Incubus, RHCP and others. When you think of how deep this station's library is, there's no excuse for them to be playing it so safe. The roots of this station go back to 1985 - under different owners, the station was FM 106.3, one of the first commercial Alternatives in the country.

G Rock probably plays Shinedown because they were getting a lot of heat from listeners for playing Nickelback, so they needed to find another safe middle of the road rock band to take their place - that's where Shinedown came in. The funny thing is that G Rock never even played Shinedown once before their latest album came out. They have a safe, inoffensive, vanilla pop/rock sound that would be right at home on the PLJs of the world, and that makes them suitable for G Rock's main target audience of Females. Tool are one of those bands that is deemed "too edgy" by upper management. I do have to say that G Rock has come a long way, though. I critique their sound now, but they have evolved into something much better than what they used to be. At one time, when G Rock was on one frequency and called themselves "G 106.3", they billed themselves as "Your Rock Alternative" while playing such cutting edge Alternative luminaries as John Mayer, Nelly Furtado, Michelle Branch, Vanessa Carlton, Gavin DeGraw, Five For Fighting, and Avril Lavigne to name a few acts. Sounds a lot like your typical "Mix" or "Sunny" station based on that description, doesn't it?

I think the reason why The End and Indie are programmed the way they are is to target the Alternative listeners who are disillusioned with a lot of the music that is passed off as Alternative today. They play modern bands that are closer to the roots of the genre along with a deep library. There are stations in Seattle and Santa Monica that are operated by major media conglomerates and have the more generic CBS/Clear Channel sound that is the norm today - you will hear Three Days Grace and Breaking Benjamin, along with Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance. Not that there's anything wrong with that in particular (I actually like the first two bands, in moderation), but it has turned off some of the earlier fans of the format. That's the same reason why you see Classic Hip-Hop stations starting to sprout up. That genre has changed even more dramatically. What used to be a artist's genre is now a producer's genre - just write about expensive grillz, shiny rims, all the ice you have, how long your chain is, how rich you are and how many women you've hooked up with, while the producer comes up with a hot beat and does all the heavy lifting.

 

[Saladressing]

"If they [Indie 103.1/LA] added a few more active-leaning but still alternative acts (Breaking Benjamin, Three Days Grace, Tool, Korn, System, etc.) and eased up on the hipster dufuses, they might have a station."

UGGH.

I hope that was a joke. KROQ already burns the active/modern hybrid acts into the ground.

I enjoy a decent mainstream modern rocker as much as the next guy but lets put an end to calling for the only Real Alternative FM left in the US to start pounding the mass appeal stuff. There was a time when there were stations like The Spy/Ok. City, REV 105/Minneapolis, WDRE/Philadelphia, WFNX/Boston among others that had this format, now Indie's all we've got left.

When people open their minds and hearts they find that the majority of the music played by Indie 103.1 in general has more depth, context and meaning than the vast majority of the Top 40 alternadrivel.

 

[Beejus]

OK... kind of random... but go with me here.

SoulCrusher... we know your view on My Chemical Romance on Alternative Radio. What about your views on Jet Hellogoodbye, The Deftones, Nirvana, Jack Johnson, The B-52's, and Sinead O'Connor on Alternative radio?

(Again... just go with me here)

 

[p_herring]

OK... kind of random... but go with me here.

SoulCrusher... we know your view on My Chemical Romance on Alternative Radio. What about your views on Jet Hellogoodbye, The Deftones, Nirvana, Jack Johnson, The B-52's, and Sinead O'Connor on Alternative radio?

(Again... just go with me here)

He's gonna say Jet are AOR/Active, Hellogoodbye is top 40/CHR, Sinead/Jack Johnson are Hot AC.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Rememeber modern rock at the jersey shore soulcrusher?What a great station that was and i believe indie 1031 is the best alt in the country.It is similar to what modern rock at the jersey shore.Funny thing about indie 1031 the reason they went on the air is that frequency was a techno dance club kinda station and entravision owns then but clear channel was selling the spots for them but the dance station was hurting there precious kiss affiliate before in los angeles so they blew up the dance and went with a true alternative station.Indie 1031 and fm 94.9 in san diego both of them got a write up in rolling stone this past summer as rock stations doing well.

In my opinion it is sad how the alt format has changed and not for the better.mudvayne,metallica,seether and killers just not right.Now killers,brandtson,shiny toy guns,tool i can deal with.