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Omnia 11- first look

LA_Guy said:
I listened to it at NAB. First off, it's VERY transparent-as Corny correctly said it: "peels a few layers off the onion".

That can be a mixed bag though-if the rest of your chain is not pristine, you WILL hear its distortions and limitations. As an example, I preferred the bass of the Omnia 6 on the first song I heard; it seemed 'rounder' and not as distorted. THEN I realized that the 11 was accurately sending on the crappy bass sound of the mix on the CD! This might cause problems in stations that use perceptually coded music in their automation systems.

For several reasons I didn't listen to the Optimod 8600. I did listen to the Vorsis and liked it very much. For some things it might even be better then the Onmia-but as a 'one size fits all' the Omnia is the winner.

Overall, I think that Omnia has a winner...but then again I always make sure my air chains are of the absolute best quality (and stringing a bunch of equipment together doesn't always do this-things are additive and subtractive between certain gear).

By the way, I also run Breakaway on my streams and agree that for it's price it's a VERY capable processor-in some ways better then multi thousand processors from just a few years ago.

Nice to meet you @ the show this year!

Coded material actually passes through sounding no worse than it does at the program source. With the Omnia.11, the traditional processing induced IM distortion isn't there to add to the coding artifacts.

Songs with lots of distortion do sound quite different. In the case of "The Who" (for example), the trademark guitar distortion fuzz sounds accurate and more lifelike as the processor isn't adding more "fuzz" to the recording. Other songs, like Sugar Ray's "Someday" sounds just as irritating through it as the CD does. :D

Garbage in, garbage out.

As life would have it, the Omnia.11 hardware was done a week before the show opened, and we made a few changes out there in Vegas after hearing the entire thing in one box (the actual hardware) for the first time ever. As great as it sounded there on the show floor as compared to the Omnia.6 EXi, I managed to get even better performance from it after having it here in "CG Labs" over the weekend!

Can't wait to get the Omnia.11 out there in the world in a few weeks!

-Cornelius
 
cgould said:
As life would have it, the Omnia.11 hardware was done a week before the show opened, and we made a few changes out there in Vegas after hearing the entire thing in one box (the actual hardware) for the first time ever. As great as it sounded there on the show floor as compared to the Omnia.6 EXi, I managed to get even better performance from it after having it here in "CG Labs" over the weekend!
Ah... That explains the stories I heared about 'hardware issues'. ::) Will you guys be at IBC in september?
 
The only comparison that could be made on the floor is whether the 8600's new clipper is an improvement over the 8500 and it is. They had a direct comparison with an 8500 pre and an 8600 pre that were approx the same and you could A/B it.

Everything else would require on-air demos if you wanted to hear the boxes and how they stack up.
 
richard.vanderveen said:
cgould said:
As life would have it, the Omnia.11 hardware was done a week before the show opened, and we made a few changes out there in Vegas after hearing the entire thing in one box (the actual hardware) for the first time ever. As great as it sounded there on the show floor as compared to the Omnia.6 EXi, I managed to get even better performance from it after having it here in "CG Labs" over the weekend!
Ah... That explains the stories I heared about 'hardware issues'. ::) Will you guys be at IBC in september?

Yeah...we had a lot of fun with suppliers on this project!!

Anyway, yes, we will be @ IBC this year as always...can't wait to see all of our customers over there!!

-Cornelius
 
richard.vanderveen said:
No specifics, just some 'vague murmur' going around about hardware not yet being ready for shipment, but Cornelius' message made the penny drop.

No vague murmur here. We were expressly clear when Omnia.11 would be shipping. Late spring/early summer was told to all whom asked.

-Frank Foti
 
richard.vanderveen said:
No specifics, just some 'vague murmur' going around about hardware not yet being ready for shipment, but Cornelius' message made the penny drop.

All 3 major brands still had some software issues to work out... no big deal.
 
FFoti1 said:
No vague murmur here. We were expressly clear when Omnia.11 would be shipping. Late spring/early summer was told to all whom asked.

-Frank Foti
The vague part of the murmur is no doubt caused by the thousands of miles and numerous interpreting people between the actual hardware on NAB and the people reaching it (in Europe). With 'made the penny drop' I meant I realized there was actually nothing going on but murmur ;D Counting down to IBC!
 
richard.vanderveen said:
The vague part of the murmur is no doubt caused by the thousands of miles and numerous interpreting people between the actual hardware on NAB and the people reaching it (in Europe). With 'made the penny drop' I meant I realized there was actually nothing going on but murmur ;D Counting down to IBC!

No problem. All the more reason to ask us directly, as compared to 2nd or 3rd party information.

-Frank Foti
 
fm-engineer said:
It appears the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper.

What is also important is that the 8600 has over twice the DSP power as the 8500 (whose DSP power was essentially tapped out by the v2.0 upgrade a few years back). The 8600 also has substantially more RAM dedicated to DSP. While version 1.0 of the 8600 will concentrate on the improved final limiter (which is itself likely to undergo further refinement in future software upgrades), the platform itself has plenty of headroom for future developments. It is easy to think of DSP-based processors in terms of their analog predecessors ("the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper," as if the 8600's final clipper were a collection of analog components) when in fact DSP-based processors like the 8600 are flexibly defined by their software.

Bob Orban
 
rorban said:
fm-engineer said:
It appears the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper.

What is also important is that the 8600 has over twice the DSP power as the 8500 (whose DSP power was essentially tapped out by the v2.0 upgrade a few years back). The 8600 also has substantially more RAM dedicated to DSP. While version 1.0 of the 8600 will concentrate on the improved final limiter (which is itself likely to undergo further refinement in future software upgrades), the platform itself has plenty of headroom for future developments. It is easy to think of DSP-based processors in terms of their analog predecessors ("the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper," as if the 8600's final clipper were a collection of analog components) when in fact DSP-based processors like the 8600 are flexibly defined by their software.

Bob Orban

Does this mean we will see available at some point in the 8600 features such as integrated RDS encoding, encoding for digital streams, and the single side band option that frank is talking about as part of the near future roadmap for the Omnia11 ? Because what struck me about the Omnia 11 was the amount of value added potential beyond the impressive processing edge we saw over the 8600. Its clearly more than just more powerfull dsp with some extra RAM.
 
jackos said:
rorban said:
fm-engineer said:
It appears the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper.

What is also important is that the 8600 has over twice the DSP power as the 8500 (whose DSP power was essentially tapped out by the v2.0 upgrade a few years back). The 8600 also has substantially more RAM dedicated to DSP. While version 1.0 of the 8600 will concentrate on the improved final limiter (which is itself likely to undergo further refinement in future software upgrades), the platform itself has plenty of headroom for future developments. It is easy to think of DSP-based processors in terms of their analog predecessors ("the Optimod 8600 has nothing new except the final clipper," as if the 8600's final clipper were a collection of analog components) when in fact DSP-based processors like the 8600 are flexibly defined by their software.

Bob Orban

Does this mean we will see available at some point in the 8600 features such as integrated RDS encoding, encoding for digital streams, and the single side band option that frank is talking about as part of the near future roadmap for the Omnia11 ? Because what struck me about the Omnia 11 was the amount of value added potential beyond the impressive processing edge we saw over the 8600. Its clearly more than just more powerfull dsp with some extra RAM.

A lot of people are talking about the single sideband option for existing analog FM. The FCC would have to approve the option since having only one L-R would require doubling the level to equal the L+R. I read Frank Foti's paper on this a while back, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for his achievements. I would also like to hear Orban's opinion on the single sideband issue since he was around when the FCC adopted the system we use today. At least we should be permitted to give it a test run since it does not alter any existing receiving equipment.
 
fm-engineer said:
A lot of people are talking about the single sideband option for existing analog FM. The FCC would have to approve the option since having only one L-R would require doubling the level to equal the L+R. I read Frank Foti's paper on this a while back, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for his achievements. I would also like to hear Orban's opinion on the single sideband issue since he was around when the FCC adopted the system we use today. At least we should be permitted to give it a test run since it does not alter any existing receiving equipment.

It is an interesting proposal but it needs more testing before it is ready to be a proposed rulemaking.

My comments below were written for a reader who had already read Frank's article.

The main computational load required to implement this system is the linear-phase FIR lowpass filters needed to realize the Weaver modulator that would generate the SSB component. The L+R would also have to be delayed by the group delay of these filters. If SSB operation is required down to 0.15 Hz (which would be required to preserve the peak level of a highly processed audio waveform), then these FIR filters would be very long (they would be required to have a transition region between passband and stopband of 0.15 Hz) and would probably need to be computed by fast convolution. This implies a long coding delay, which would cause problems if talent needed to monitor off-air through headphones. (Our processors offer an "ultra-low-latency" structure that can be put on-air to address this.)

I have examined the mathematics, and it turns out that one could also do a vestigial sideband realization where the upper sideband was allowed to have frequency components up to a few hundred Hz. This would substantially ease the filter requirements and would also result in less coding delay. It is possible to arrange the VSB such that the peak modulation of the composite baseband signal is still correctly controlled; the sum of the gains of corresponding upper and lower sidebands must be unity. (Conventional DSB FM stereo is a limiting case of this, where mirror-image sidebands of 0.5 gain appear throughout the stereo subchannel spectrum.)

One other important thing to consider is how certain receivers might react to this waveform. I know that Sony in its most advanced receivers uses the quadrature component of the stereo subchannel to estimate channel noise. This noise estimate is used to control a variable-blend-to-mono algorithm in sub-bands. This exploits the fact that in conventional FM stereo, the quadrature component of the stereo subchannel is zero, so material appearing in quadrature can assumed to be due mainly to transmission channel degradation, including multipath and noise. I do not know if any other brands of receivers use this information, but if they do, it's important to know this because the SSB modulation will result in a quadrature component that is equal in magnitude to the in-phase component when demodulated with a conventional double-sideband synchronous detector. If the receiver misinterprets this, it could result in a premature blend to mono.

In addition, I believe that before transmissions using this technique are allowed to proceed, laboratory measurements of co-channel RF protection ratios should be made both under ideal conditions and with multipath. While the results may well favor the SSB technique, it is important to know this with certainty before this proposal is placed before the regulatory authority because this would affect the interference environment in the FM band.

Bob Orban
 
Group,

The SSB stereo generator method has been gaining a lot of interest. I was asked to address the NRSC meeting in Washington, DC recently, and have been asked to give an overview about it at AES, in San Francisco. The NRSC asked that we get some in-field testing done by their next gathering, which will be in January, at CES in Las Vegas. Needless to say, our switchboard has been ringing off the hook, along with the bevy of email requests I'm getting daily about the topic.

In November/December we will be conducting tests with a major receiver manufacturer. Thus far, all testing has yielded good results, but there's a lot more in-field work to do.

BTW: We have the system running without any long coding delay as Bob refers to.

-Frank Foti
 
FFoti1 said:
Group,

BTW: We have the system running without any long coding delay as Bob refers to.

-Frank Foti

Frank -- What is the low-frequency cutoff of the stereo subchannel in your realization? As you know, in the Weaver technique of SSB generation, the sharpness of the high frequency cutoff of the lowpass filter applied to the downward-shifted signal determines the bass response of the SSB signal because after modulation, the low frequency components reflect around 0 Hz and appear very close to the frequency of the sine and cosine waves applied to the multipliers that do the downward frequency shifting, which is right at the high frequency edge of the lowpass filter. Maintaining full SSB operation to 0.15 Hz while eliminating the upper sideband of the image caused by the downward shift requires the filter to have a stopband that is only 0.15 Hz removed from its passband. While filters like this are certainly practical in the digital domain, either by using fast convolution or by using a multistage interpolated FIR in the time domain, they have long delays.

I know that you mentioned composite clipping in your paper -- were you proposing using a composite clipper to clip the overshoots caused by the frequency range of the SSB's not extending fully down to 0.15 Hz? (As you know, a 0.15 Hz bandwidth is necessary to prevent overshoot with highly processed signals.)

It is certainly true that it is unnecessary to have long delays. Unless I'm missing something, a good way to obtain about 99% of the benefits of a pure SSB system can be achieved by a vestigial sideband system, where the very low frequencies are transmitted DSB and the rest of the spectrum is transmitted SSB. The design of the lowpass filter in the SSB modulator can then be dramatically relaxed. It is practical to compute it as a single-stage FIR having negligibly small delay. If the SSB/VSB crossover was set to 100 Hz, then the spectrum of the baseband would extend only to 38,100 Hz instead of 38,000 Hz, which is a negligible difference.

Bob Orban
 
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