once great stations that are now jokes!

[Steven21]

Local issues need to be addressed using "creativity", which is what you get from seasoned radio pros. When you give a novice or a former city councilman a radio show, you can expect to hear all about the minutes from the last school board meeting.

 

[TheBigA]

Local issues need to be addressed using "creativity", which is what you get from seasoned radio pros.

Seasoned radio pros tend to attract seasoned radio listeners, if you know what I mean.

 

[kinetic]

I really think we all are making too much of this "local hosts talking local issues" idea. The goal is to attract big audiences 24/7, and I really don't see local talk attracting big audiences in most markets. There simply isn't that much to talk about. I've heard small market talk stations try to milk things like school board elections and the number of traffic lights, and it really becomes old after the second commercial break. Most local talk shows end up covering national issues, which get more passionate calls.

So I guess ALL of radio, in a few years, will be nothing but nationally syndicated Rush Limbaugh clones.

Great.

That'll guarantee quite a future for radio!

By the way, most decent local hosts don't dwell on politics and only politics--but that IS what the overwhelming majority of tier 1, 2 & 3 syndicated hosts do. How long do you think THAT will sustain?

I don't doubt BigA if he says he's heard bad talk radio. I have and most of them are nationally sydnicated clones offering the constant refrain of agendized tub-thumping about those national issues, and their idea of national issues tends to fall into one of two categories: Republican bad, or Democrat bad.
I didn't go back and check the early parts of the thread but were not heritage stations in major markets filled with a line-up of syndicated properties? How can that be in a city like New York or Boston? There may not be anything bigger than the school board meeting in Ames, IA, but cities like Denver, Seattle, Cincinnati, Knoxville or Tulsa surely have compelling issues worth bringing up.
Maybe what's happening to talk radio is what's happened to music radio. The contraction and/or elimination of talent has reduced the available pool of young talent to supplant, eventually replace or currently compete against existing and, I might add, aging talent. Radio once again cannibalizing itself for the short term savings?
I don't bring up "local hosts talking local issues" just because it's local, but a syndicated property has his limits. A state like California, with its disastrous fiscal problems will be far more compelling to the local listeners than hearing Sean Hannity once again tell us what a socialist Barack Obama is. That's a competitive calculus, not a philosophical broadcasting one.

 

[TheBigA]

The contraction and/or elimination of talent has reduced the available pool of young talent to supplant, eventually replace or currently compete against existing and, I might add, aging talent.

That's not what I'm seeing. The aging talent is expensive. They're the ones being shown the door.

A state like California, with its disastrous fiscal problems will be far more compelling to the local listeners than hearing Sean Hannity once again tell us what a socialist Barack Obama is. That's a competitive calculus, not a philosophical broadcasting one.

In theory, yes. But in practicality, most people don't know anything about the issues being discussed. So the discussion about local issues gets reduced to a lot of the same left vs. right lines they get from cable news channels.

That's the problem: Radio thinks people think local. But their agendas are set by what they watch on TV. That's not local.

 

[kinetic]

The contraction and/or elimination of talent has reduced the available pool of young talent to supplant, eventually replace or currently compete against existing and, I might add, aging talent.

That's not what I'm seeing. The aging talent is expensive. They're the ones being shown the door.

A state like California, with its disastrous fiscal problems will be far more compelling to the local listeners than hearing Sean Hannity once again tell us what a socialist Barack Obama is. That's a competitive calculus, not a philosophical broadcasting one.

In theory, yes. But in practicality, most people don't know anything about the issues being discussed. So the discussion about local issues gets reduced to a lot of the same left vs. right lines they get from cable news channels.

That's the problem: Radio thinks people think local. But their agendas are set by what they watch on TV. That's not local.

I have personally found that to be untrue, at least in my experience. People are quite well versed on key issues directly affecting their lives, and, they're are also quite thoughtful and reflective on topics that are more sociological or philosopical in nature. That would, of course, go back to the "decent" talk show host who can think beyond the left-v-right paradigm, or who can provide an alternative to it. For people don't know anything about the issues being discussed, they'll gravitate towards a host who doesn't know anything about the issues being discussed except for reducing it to the much easier and less prep-intensive divisive language. The talk show host who knows about the issue and is able to talk about it from a variety of perspectives can definitely find an audience, especially one that is tired of the usual theatrics. Why wouldn't that be a competitive alternative?

 

[kinetic]

The contraction and/or elimination of talent has reduced the available pool of young talent to supplant, eventually replace or currently compete against existing and, I might add, aging talent.

That's not what I'm seeing. The aging talent is expensive. They're the ones being shown the door.

Who?

 

[klutch00]

louisville, kentucky 840 WHAS

it used to be a 50000 watt community blowtorch station. there are 13 hours of local programming, however only 5 are call-in shows, and 2 of those are on a sports talk show, the only local call in show on that station after 12 pm. it has gone from a station everyone programmed in their car radios automatically without question or explanation needed to one that is a virtually a 24 hour conservative outlet where you could hear the same opinions and lineup in a place like cleveland. this has nothing to do with political ideology. they don't offer any liberal programs on the program schedule. but i still could have listened to the station (except from 12-3p) because it was local. my listening dropped severely when they fired the local overnight talk host (while not made official, my take on the incident was that he made too much money) for a tape-delayed syndicated hatemonger named michael "savage" weiner. it does not feel local anymore- the news is now virtually fox news at the top and bottom with some local updates afterwards.

in addition they made a business decision to air university of kentucky (located 80 miles east) games with priority over university of louisville games two years earlier, which was the last straw with me. firing the local overnight guy was a very unpopular decision and that move shifting priority took effect the same year. when you see the ratings books, most likely these are the results of those class of people who turn the radio on and leave it on all day.

the only reason i still listen to that station is because university of louisville games still air there, but i really hope that uofl just moves all its games to the overflow station when there is a conflict and has nothing to do with WHAS anymore.

One feature I really missed from this station, and no one ever bothered to try it again was an oldies program called the Friday Night Revival. It aired on Friday nights around 1987 from 10PM until (IIRC) 2AM. Maybe instead of talk programming one of the AM blowtorches could once again air such a program. If they want to keep talk during the week, fine. Just keep Friday and Saturday nights open for special music programming. CFZM is doing this now, but maybe more could follow.

 

[Steven21]

Local issues need to be addressed using "creativity", which is what you get from seasoned radio pros.

Seasoned radio pros tend to attract seasoned radio listeners, if you know what I mean.

That's a ridiculius statement made by a chronic disagree-er.

When I say "radio pros" I'm talking about people who know how to communicate and bring an issue or discussion to life---not some hack who likes hearing himself talk and caters to the same 10 regulars who call everyday.The true PROS avoid these pitfalls, while the amateurs walk right into them.

And as far as "the discussion about local issues gets reduced to a lot of the same left vs. right lines they get from cable news channels."

UNTRUE.

Many local issues DO NOT necessarily have a left vs. right component. You must not have a chance to hear decent local talk where you live, because local issues, when handled appropriately, can create divisions in opinion that transcend the stale left vs. right template of nationally syndicated talk. Why? Because local talk isn't just about politics.

 

[TheBigA]

That's a ridiculius statement made by a chronic disagree-er.

Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.

 

[Pratte4Life]

KDKA - Pittsburgh

I agree with you. KDKA sucks! They used to be very good, with lots of local shows and TRADIO! Now, it's crap! Syndication 24/7, blah, blah, blah...

-crainbebo

Actually, KDKA carries a bunch of local programming. The exceptions are overnights with Jim Bohannan and Overnight America.


A lot of the staples of the station- such as "Ninety to Six," have reappeared- though admittedly what was "90" minutes is now "180."


KDKA no longer has Rush Limbaugh or the Pirates, however.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Actually, KDKA carries a bunch of local programming. The exceptions are overnights with Jim Bohannan and Overnight America.

I mentioned this back on page 3 of this thread.

Just for completeness on this thread/topic, since you brought them up, Rush and the Pirates ended up on Clear Channel's FM talk station in Da Burgh, WPGB/104.7.

 

[firepoint525]

Then why not take AM programming and put it on FM. I know some markets are doing this but maybe not enough of them. Why not?

Some AMs are already doing this. One station that I formerly worked for now has an FM translator for their AM station. This is primarily to increase their "listenability" at night, but having a presence on the FM dial also increases their visibility in the community. (If you're AM only, you're invisible to some folks.)

Now they already have FM sister stations, and have had them for years. And they have had satellite/automated music formats for years, as far as I know.

I believe you were referring to moving AM programming to FM, rather than merely simulcasting, as I mentioned here. If AM programming gets moved to FM on any type of large scale, then turn out the lights for AM, because it will be over for them!

 

[kinetic]

Then why not take AM programming and put it on FM. I know some markets are doing this but maybe not enough of them. Why not?

Some AMs are already doing this. One station that I formerly worked for now has an FM translator for their AM station. This is primarily to increase their "listenability" at night, but having a presence on the FM dial also increases their visibility in the community. (If you're AM only, you're invisible to some folks.)

Now they already have FM sister stations, and have had them for years. And they have had satellite/automated music formats for years, as far as I know.

I believe you were referring to moving AM programming to FM, rather than merely simulcasting, as I mentioned here. If AM programming gets moved to FM on any type of large scale, then turn out the lights for AM, because it will be over for them!

Yeah, didn't make that clear. I was actually thinking of KCBS in San Francisco, which began simulcasting on an FM signal in the cluster. It's a relatively weak signal but the difference in sound quality is stark, and initially, it gave them a ratings boost. I've no idea what will happen over the long haul, if it attracts listeners who don't care about AM at all, or how PPM will change the overall landscape. But I agree with what I think you're saying, if for no other reason than the practical one: If you have a cluster that includes an AM-talker and a poor-performing FM, there may be a programming decision waiting to happen, and I don't see why you wouldn't consider the simulcasting option. Future evidence may show AM getting fewer and fewer listeners in such a scenario --who knows-- but if that be the case, maybe you could turn off the lights then. That's a suit decision. But hey, at least corporate will like the downsizing/cost-cutting (and don't anyone start nitpicking this, it's just a figurative observation): You'll have half the number of employees doing the work of two stations... kinda like it is now.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

It seems to me that AM radio has a few problems. One, most younger people (that magical demo of 12-49) do not listen to AM radio. This of course causes problems for AM's to attract those listeners, no matter what they air. Two, with few advertisers AM stations are losing money. Three, AM radio could attract larger 50+ audiences if they programmed for that age group, but the advertisers don't want the over 50 crowd so radio basically ignores that group as well, losing the largest population block that still listens to AM radio, the Baby Boomer (people born between 1946-1965). AM can't win for losing. The people who'd tune in to AM radio are too old to please the advertisers, so AM either attracts older listeners and gets no spot revenue or they try to get young people to listen, but as those younger people want music on radio, not news or talk, why would they go from FM to AM to hear music. They don't so as someone said earlier in this posting, AM's days are gone. The only thing that has kept AM going on live suport is elRushbo as he created a new style of talk for AM back 20 years ago. It seems that the future for AM radio is news, news/talk, Hispanic, Korean, Black, Sports, Sports Talk, and religious stations. At some point, more and more talk/sports/news will mirgrate to FM leaving AM with few options. At some point the plug will be pulled.

So the whole point of the original post doesn't make sense to me. All the former great AM stations in every market, are not doing very well as they did in their glory days (and programming has nothing to do with this). Basically, Cool marches on, and AM is no longer cool. I have great memories of great AM stations and would enjoy hearing some of the old programs come back, but that's a pipe dream, not a workable business model for a radio station to use. AM has reinvented itself numerous times. AM radio's owners will need to find away to re-invent AM radio for the 21st century or it won't be too much longer before the plug gets pulled all over America and AM radio will become a novelty like listening to old shalack 78 rpm records on a Victrolia.

 

[TheBigA]

AM radio's owners will need to find away to re-invent AM radio for the 21st century or it won't be too much longer before the plug gets pulled all over America and AM radio will become a novelty like listening to old shalack 78 rpm records on a Victrolia.

I think the Congress is sitting there in Washington waiting for the whole band to shut down, so they can sell the whole thing to some cell phone companies, as they're doing with VHF.

 

[KeithE4]

AM radio's owners will need to find away to re-invent AM radio for the 21st century or it won't be too much longer before the plug gets pulled all over America and AM radio will become a novelty like listening to old shalack 78 rpm records on a Victrolia.

I think the Congress is sitting there in Washington waiting for the whole band to shut down, so they can sell the whole thing to some cell phone companies, as they're doing with VHF.

Not likely. In fact, for technical reasons, it won't happen. The band is too narrow, the wavelengths are too long, propagation is a factor (the ionosphere is a liability, not an asset, to digital signals), and the noise levels are too high. This is the case for all frequencies below 30 MHz.

I just don't see the FCC reallocating 530-1700 kHz for anything other than broadcasting anytime in the near or distant future. It may be filled up with community broadcasters and a few 50 kW blowtorches, but it won't go away.

 

[radiocph]

AM radio's owners will need to find away to re-invent AM radio for the 21st century or it won't be too much longer before the plug gets pulled all over America and AM radio will become a novelty like listening to old shalack 78 rpm records on a Victrolia.

I think the Congress is sitting there in Washington waiting for the whole band to shut down, so they can sell the whole thing to some cell phone companies, as they're doing with VHF.

Not likely. In fact, for technical reasons, it won't happen. The band is too narrow, the wavelengths are too long, propagation is a factor (the ionosphere is a liability, not an asset, to digital signals), and the noise levels are too high. This is the case for all frequencies below 30 MHz.

I just don't see the FCC reallocating 530-1700 kHz for anything other than broadcasting anytime in the near or distant future. It may be filled up with community broadcasters and a few 50 kW blowtorches, but it won't go away.

Remember when "200 meters and down" (1500 kHz and higher) was thought to be worthless?

 

[KeithE4]

Remember when "200 meters and down" (1500 kHz and higher) was thought to be worthless?

Not directly. I'm not quite that old. :-D

Seriously, that was the "conventional wisdom" of post-WW1 engineers since ground wave propagation was all they knew at the time. Fortunately, pioneering hams and broadcasters proved them wrong in short order.

Now, the "conventional wisdom" is that 10 meters and up is worthless for any modern transmission method. For anything other than narrow-band analog and simple digital modulation methods, it pretty much is. These frequencies have little to no monetary value to the Gummint.

In fact, if I'm still around in 20 years, I'll bet I'll find mostly hams, with a few broadcasters and backup systems for the military, maritime, and aircraft, as the only remaining occupiers of the frequencies below 30 MHz.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Problem is, thanks to incredibly poor business decisions, the industry is hastening the exodus of cume by degrading programming.

"Hastening?" The body has been on life support for 30 years. This is the longest death watch since Generalissimo Ferdinand Franco.

The fact, however, is that the majority of AM stations are owned by small owners, not the big companies. That's why they suck. The ones owned by CBS, Entercom, and CC are the few bright lights left on the dial. The government is hastening its demise by lack of leadership. No surprise there.

Well then let it die. Lets Deregulate AM to the extent that there is no supervision. No license needed nothing. If an Anarchist wants to get on there and foment revolution no problem. Total freedom. Sounds promising.

I don't we have Anarchists on the air already?

 

[recto101]

Interesting that these are all AM stations that are considered "jokes." Which should be no surprise to anyone. The sun set on the AM band for the most part over 30 years ago. Sure perhaps there's still one powerhouse AM station that still attracts listeners, strictly for news and talk. But how many stations do you need covering the same news or airing the same talk shows? This is not a content issue or a reinvention issue. Better programming is not going to bring listeners back to AM. There is really nothing that radio itself can do to fix AM any more. It's time has passed, and it's time to let it go.

even FM station are jokes now. They are falling down the same way as the AM station now that FM stations in some area are now Talk Radio Stations